Why is it ok to be gay, but not ok to crossdress?

[GaleWarning]

Kaly's post, Parents? got me thinking about this question.

To me, crossdressing is a harmless hobby, just as time- and money-consuming as, say, golf or yachting.

On my cv I might mention that I play golf or own a hobie 16, and this would gain kudos with the interviewing panel.

I might mention at the interview that I was gay, and here in NZ that would not make a blind bit of difference (I know this for sure, because I am recruiting right now); in fact, it could count in my favour!

But if I were to list crossdressing as a hobby on my cv or mention during the course of an interview, that it is a passion of mine, my job prospects would evaporate faster than water in a desert.

Why?

[NathalieX66]

twenty years ago my dad says to me "I don't care if you're gay...just don't wear a dress"

Problem is I'm straight, and I like to wear dresses.

I think that's the source of all my frustrations.

[Karren H]

Don't really know why..... That's just the way it is.....

[Eryn]

I might mention at the interview that I was gay, and here in NZ that would not make a blind bit of difference (I know this for sure, because I am recruiting right now); in fact, it could count in my favour!

But if I were to list crossdressing as a hobby on my cv or mention during the course of an interview, that it is a passion of mine, my job prospects would evaporate faster than water in a desert.

Why?

Short answer: Because the gay community has better PR and political clout.

Frankly, if something doesn't apply directly to the employment it's better to keep it off of your cv. For example, being an enthusiastic hunter would be applicable if you're applying for a job at a sporting goods shop, but not if you're trying for a job doing just about anything else. Same goes for CDing.

[Steph.TS]

people are familiar with and have come to terms with gays/homosexuality, but CD'ing/TS is still deemed weird as society doesn't get it. if society saw this activity as being 'safe' then I think it wouldn't be as big of an issue.

[sherri]

I know what you're saying, but there are still a lot of gays in the closet.

[juno]

My idea is that transgender forces people to realize that there is a range of genders, and there is not a solid barrier dividing the "normal" people from "those other" people. If you explain to a people that being straight is not an exact thing, they feel insecure. Being heterosexual and wanting to crossdress messes with their own understanding of safely being a "normal" straight person.

A big part of it is fear of the unknown. People would not freak out if they grew up being more aware of the reality of human sexuality. That is why I feel it is important not to hide transgenderism from children.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Kaly's post, Parents? got me thinking about this question.

To me, crossdressing is a harmless hobby, just as time- and money-consuming as, say, golf or yachting.

On my cv I might mention that I play golf or own a hobie 16, and this would gain kudos with the interviewing panel.

I might mention at the interview that I was gay, and here in NZ that would not make a blind bit of difference (I know this for sure, because I am recruiting right now); in fact, it could count in my favour!

But if I were to list crossdressing as a hobby on my cv or mention during the course of an interview, that it is a passion of mine, my job prospects would evaporate faster than water in a desert.

Why?

I dont know. I have asked that same question over and over. This as confused me for quite some time. I guess society has not came to a point where they can accept crossdressing or transgender as they have being gay. Maybe it still challenges what they see when they look at how a person is dressed and it confuses them.

twenty years ago my dad says to me "I don't care if you're gay...just don't wear a dress"

Problem is I'm straight, and I like to wear dresses.

I think that's the source of all my frustrations.

iT IS oK TO CROSSDRESS, i've never heard that it was'nt.

[Maxi]

There is nothing wrong with a man in a dress. Wait a minute, I am one.
Most people are greatly influenced by peoples opinions, It's the leaders in society that blaze the new trails. We are not afraid of the unknown, but curious about it, and embrace it.
Life is more fun that way.

[GaleWarning]

iT IS oK TO CROSSDRESS, i've never heard that it was'nt.

Try telling that to the Teacher Registration Board, for example.

[Lorileah]

Ignorance, naivete', bad information? All the above? Years of media and politico-social propaganda more than any thing. Ok add religion in there too.

I wouldn't go so far a PR. The gay community has fought hard and worked to disprove most of the inaccuracies that have followed them for years. They haven't totally dispelled any of it just as any minority will never totally remove learned prejudices. But we have a special hurdle. We believe the bad press because we are taught that these rumors are true.

As a group we are as big as the gay community, maybe larger. However "we" cannot form a coalition to make our point because such a large part has convinced themselves that what they do is "wrong". TG's can fade away easily into the bigger melange. Most do. Just look at the pages and pages here where members complain about being treated poorly by friends, families, spouses or neighbors and ask what to do. When the advice is "own it, teach them and be proud of who you are" it is like someone turns on a light and they scamper like mice. It is easier to hide and pretend it does not exist than it is to be out and proud. No different than many minorities who we now envy when they started to work toward acceptance. But they finally decided they didn't want to hide. I am not saying everything is perfect for them yet as closed minded ideas die hard but they have made inroads. And then members here invoke the old "why can't we be accepted like they are?" But they add that they would never ever tell anyone about what they do. Like they expect that one morning, everything will be sweetness and light and they won't even have to try.

We can change ignorance. It won't be easy but we can. We have to start with image. Convince the world we are not all RuPaul or her cronies of self centered divas. We are NOT Norman Bates, Tootsie or even Joe or Jerry (Google it..it is a movie most claim as their favorite TG movie of all time). We are not clowns for amusement, we are not criminals or even insidious ne'er-do-wells (I always wanted to say that). We embrace the stereotypes and then rail against how we are no taken seriously. Remember when gays were portrayed that way? You won't see that in movies anymore. Why because that sort of portrayal would be protested long before it made the screen.

So why is it OK to be gay and not TG? Look in the mirror. We are not bad people. We are viable productive members of the community. We are parents, employees, church members, coaches and athletes. We are doctors, scientists, politicians, police, firefighters, store keepers and teachers. We ARE the community and if we want acceptance in that c0ommunity we have to first convince ourselves we are a part of the community and then show that we can be and are productive abd needed members of society.

[Yolanda_Voils]

Kelly, I get where you're coming from, but clayfish has a valid point..

Crossdressers, gay or not get much more BS from Joe Public than an obvious gay man...

I have my good days and those not so good, as far as passing.. I've had both ends of the spectrum in responses, thankfully none of them required the usage of my 38+p rounds..

One woman in particular, early on a Saturday morning at Riverfest in Chattanooga, STARED at me for a good 2 minutes without breaking eye contact..
I was wearing a very nice light pink chiffon dress, a bit below the knee, some white open toe strappy high heels and I "thought" I was very presentable.. Obviously not, to her anyway..

I feel that had I been an obvious gay person at the same location dressed "gender correct" that she would not have stared.

It shook me up so much, I canceled my plans, which was just to wander around the Riverfest, and drove 1.5 hrs back home.

[Heelsnlegs]

I know this is shallow, but crossdressing wont be OK until hollywood says it will be OK! I dont think anything we do as a community can have the kind of impact that putting Robert Pattinson into a dress will have lol!

[Schatten Lupus]

There are probably many reasons. Two of which I can think of is the social perceptions of masculinity and cross dressing, and that the awareness of gay issues and advancing knowledge that it isn't a choice is why tolerance for gays is way up. It's just a matter of time until those in the transcommunity share an equal acceptance (probably long after all 50 states allow gay marriage.)

[Lorileah]

[COLOR="#800080"] It's just a matter of time until those in the transcommunity share an equal acceptance

Afraid I have to say it will be long after that. Part of which is the gay community has already started cutting strings with the TG community (if it comes up for a vote and TG is mentioned, the gay coalition has no qualms in setting us adrift, check out ENDA) and the fact that so many in the community make it a point to say "I am NOT gay!" at every chance they get like being gay is a pariah. Hey throw me a life line and by the way I hate sailors. No we will be accepted when we come together and show we deserve acceptance.

[lingerieLiz]

I posted this in the Parents thread. "People don't like things that don't fit their perceptions. If you look at a gay person and they fit our perception of what someone of their sex should look like we accept them more readily than if they challenge us with a different image. Two gay men looking like all the straight men in the room will be accepted. Have the two gay men show affection and the atmosphere will change quickly. Let the men or man be dressed differently and hostility will be felt. This is not different than what ethnic or tribal feelings experience in many parts of the world. People want people they associate with to be similar to them."

When I see a gay person presenting as a characture of what we used to believe gays were, I see differences in how people interact with them. A gay who assumes a "normal" presentation mode is able to build relationships with "normal" people and doesn't seem threatening. The same with us, except when we come out. People don't want to know what gays do in the bedroom. With us they see the difference if we leave the closet.

[NicoleScott]

No we will be accepted when we come together and show we deserve acceptance.

This is what the gay community did and is doing. We see gays all the time in all media forms, and we see that they're no threat after all. They're [otherwise] normal and often talented and successful people. When we see crossdressers, it's on Springer and are depicted in a way that the public generally doesn't like, or on a talk show where they are depicted as sexual deviants or psychology subjects in need of a cure. We're still a threat because we haven't shown that were not.
Having said all that, I cannot be a martyr for the cause. I know my boss, and can tell you that without any doubt I would lose my job. Not for being a cd officially, but he would find a way. It's easy to do. Providing for my family trumps helping to improve the public image of the crossdresser. So I'm stuck in the closet.

[kate dresser]

I think that the gays have realy tried to come out of the closet. They still get harased and theres alot of hates crimes towards them. I sure the if the cd community came out and pushed just as much as they have it would be alot different for us. I find it amazing that women can wear both sex's of clothing but we cant,even there panties are called boy short, whats with that. I guess this is just the way its going to be for us.

[JohnH]

Let's confine the discussion of our crossdressing to Male to Female. A woman who wears men's jeans and a plaid shirt is perfectly acceptable in western society. We need to point out that it should not be any different with a man wearing a dress.

It seems OK to bash white males about anything and everything, including crossdressing. Homosexuals had to fight against negative public perceptions.

Johanna

[TGMarla]

The answer is simple: there are a lot of gay people in Hollywood and in the media. There are a lot of gay activists. They have made it neary "in vogue" to be gay, whereas there are almost no transgender or CD activists, and Hollywood portrays crossdressers as a laughing stock.

Incidentally, one has little or nothing to do with the other, so why does this comparison keep coming up?

[NicoleScott]

Incidentally, one has little or nothing to do with the other, so why does this comparison keep coming up?

I think it's because at one time they were both social taboos. Now, only one is.

[docrobbysherry]

Doesn't it come down to this? The average person in the street thinks were ALL PERVS?

And, why shouldn't they? Considering what we hear about CDs in the media? When I started dressing, I was pretty sure that CDs were all pervs and I must be one SICK PUPPY!

Since then, I've actually MET some of u. After online communications here. Nary a perv in the lot!

If the average person could actually get to KNOW a CD, I think MOST would feel quite differently!

[Tamara Croft]

Incidentally, one has little or nothing to do with the other, so why does this comparison keep coming up?

That's sadly where you're wrong. Most people I know automatically assume CD's are gay... reason being, is a lot of CD's are very flamboyant, they come across as gay and not at all like a woman. When I was at sparkle, many of the CD's there where very flamboyant and you could here non-CD's saying things like 'oh there's another gay one'...

[Sheren Kelly]

Let's not forget that gays have fought long and hard for acceptance. (yes, I am aware that Drag Queens led the fight at Stonewall). In the states, gays only recently won the right to be open about their sexuality in the military while fighting for the very people who would prefer them to be invisible.

In the TG world, many are often more comfortable in the closet. If you want change, you have to commit to being out there in the open and risk the backlash. As the gays have said "Invisibility = Death"

[DebsUK]

I agree with pretty much everything Lori said. We don't have a history of anyone carrying the TG torch. Media portrayals are mainly negative, whilst the gay community are for more vocal, militant and well organised and have been since way back all the way to Stonewall and before. Look at the recent case in the UK press about the MI6 guy who was found dead in a locked trunk. The papers were all over the fact that he had a £15,000 collection of women's designerwear (lucky git) linking him to a sex game that went wrong, therefore he's a pervert. Also what we do is very often in secret so it's not like people are used to seeing crossdressed men. Our TS sisters don't have this fallback and I bet they encounter lots of prejudice as a result, but that's more explicable to some people as they see it as a medical condition.

So do we get together and present a proud front? Takes a lot of guts. I'd want to be more out and proud, but right now I'm way too much of a coward and worried about what other people think. I know that's wrong and I do want to fight the good fight once I start finding my predicured strappy sandal-wearing feet again. I guess chipping away at prejudice, picking people up for trans-phobic comments is a good start