Why are we so afraid of being thought of as Gay?

[DaphneGrey]

I have been reading a few threads over the past couple of days. I cant help but notice the prevailing homophobic attitudes. Not bigotry mind you please do not take this the wrong way. It seems that many in our community cant make any type of comment on any thing without working into the post "I am not gay".

Now I understand that most who crossdress are not. I understand when coming out to someone, anyone the question comes up and needs an answer. I get that and have been there.

If you are out and living your life even part time. Interacting with friends, salespeople, waiters, and such or anybody else for that matter. You must have gotten over the o my God what are people going to think attitude, Yes? Or even here on the form. Is it really important to spout of " I am not Gay" every other sentence?

I was recently hanging out with some friends of mine who happen to be Gay and the conversation came up about why Gay folk don't really care for Heterosexual Male to Female crossdressers. The answer " They are always going on about not being Gay. I understand that they are not but it gets kind of tiring hearing it, and sometimes it is offensive! If they were really comfortable with themselves they wouldn't need to broadcast it all over the place" When I asked if that was his only reason said "for me that is real pet peeve"

I should tell you a little about myself for those who don't know me. I am one hundred percent out. I identify as Queer\Gender queer \ and Trans gender. i am happily married and not unfaithful. But find men attractive and swoon over the respectful attention of gentlemen. Just a little back round about me.

I don't want to come off as attacking anybody or any thing like that. If you can walk into a room full of people in a dress does it really matter what they think?

Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I too would question why anyone would need to clarify that they are not gay unless perhaps a gay individual is making a pass at them and even then, a simple, "sorry, I am not interested" would be suffice.

Do we go around proclaiming we are not this or that, or my breasts are real not fake, etc. I agree that if we are comfortable in who we are, why do we have to clarify ANYTHING about what we are or are not?

I think it is called "self-esteem," and being confident and comfortable in who you are.

[Michelle 51]

I don't go arount spouting off I'm not gay but I've had to assure my wife of that for the simple reason that men who dress as women in movies etc ie:The birdcage, Prescilla Queen of the desert and on and on are portrayed as gay transvestites or gay transexuals looking for men and that is what a lot of people think we are.Most of us aren't and if you are fine but who wants a label that don't fit.No disrespect to gays is intended when we clarify the misconception that just because I dress as a women I must be gay.I know a lot of straight TG and TS girls.

[Amanda22]

Daphne, thanks for an excellent posting and one that is really important for discussion. Sexual preference and gender identification are separate things. I identify as female. My sexual preference happens to be for females. The two are unrelated. Yes, we need to reassure SOs of our sexual preference when coming out of the closet, but other than that, the "but I'm not gay" statements just sound offensive. I think adding that qualification in conversation is an indication of insecurity.

[Deanna B]

hi Daphne Grey . you are so right when you look at the world and see the big picture being gay or crossdressing it is not that important as long as you are HAPPY .
wow i am writeing to you in i think in the USA love deanna .

[Sarah Doepner]

Daphne, thanks for an excellent posting and one that is really important for discussion. Sexual preference and gender identification are separate things. I identify as female. My sexual preference happens to be for females. The two are unrelated. Yes, we need to reassure SOs of our sexual preference when coming out of the closet, but other than that, the "but I'm not gay" statements just sound offensive. I think adding that qualification in conversation is an indication of insecurity.

Amanda has hit my thoughts on the nose. We spend a lot of our time and energy defining ourselves by what we are not rather than what we are. The GLB movement made it's best progress when they began defining themselves as normal people who just happen to have a same sex attraction. We have not made that step yet and spend a lot of time on the defense saying, I'm not Gay, I don't want to become a woman, I'm not a drag queen, I'm not like Norman Bates, etc., etc., etc.,

[Zoe Preston]

Perhaps if your thread was entitled "Why are we so afraid of being wrongly stereotyped" then you might have answered your own question

I can't say that I've noticed the issue as you describe it but like just about every other married crossdresser I've been asked point blank by my wife if I was Gay and related the conversation on this forum. I can most relate to those posters whose circumstances are most similar to mine so I'm OK with people stating whether they are married/single gay/straight/bi/retired/still-deciding or whatever.

Have the comments you have seen been perjorative against the Gay posters or 'bashing' them in any way? Because I'd agree with you that that should be dealt with immediately.

I don't think that you can criticise people for stating which particular crossdressing pigeonhole they fit in when you yourself have told us which boxes you would tick on your CD application form And that isn't a criticism of you, it simply illustrates the fact that we all have a view of which pigeonhole we fit in so-to-speak and we tend to correct people if they make a mistaken assumption.

Finally - and before this morphs into a Seinfeld episode (Not that there's anything wrong with that) isn't your friends comment about hetersexual CDers "They are always going on about not being Gay" a sweeping generalisation? I would have thought that the Gay community has spent too long fighting against stereotyping to resort to using it?

Zoe

[Sophie_C]

It's RIDICULOUSLY easy to understand:

1. Many, many crossdressers are married to women.
2. Many, many crossdressers married to women are bisexual (or at least have thoughts that way)
3. Unlike your situation, most people genuinuely believe in 2010 that there is no such thing as a male bisexual. They see it as a stepping stone in coming to terms with one's latent homosexuality.
4. It is also well-known that, unlike men who generally like women who are bisexual, women find it pretty much the ultimate turn-off, and the vast majority on a primal level will never be with a man like that.
5. Also, there is still a rather common belief that anyone who is bisexual is promiscuous.
6. Therefore, they must deny anything that can be interpreted as an indication of homosexuality, since it threatens their marriage.

Look, I do understand you've got a lovely understanding wife, but you're the exception to the rule. You will find that most open crossdressers who are not in a relationship tend to not care if they're being called or presumed gay or not.

And finally, I know it will freak a whole lot of people out when I say this, but it's most often the loudest people that are the ones the most in denial. It's like the anti-gay politicans who are found in gay bars. Someone who is 1000%, girls-only and just cross-dresses for kicks won't even have the whole "gay or not gay" thing on their mind. But, if someone is struggling with the idea, they're going to be projecting that struggle everywhere, since they're really telling THEMSELVES that "I'm not gay... (sure, right????)" when they're tellng it to everyone around them.

But, back to the point, I believe there's a lot more bisexual people out there than people believe, especially in this community, and I also believe it IS possible (at one time in history, this wasn't a crazy thought) for a man to be bisexual, contrary to popular belief. I do believe a lot of women's husband's here are rightfully concerned of their marriage due to this popular belief that a man cannot be bisexual, so they have to defend it. So, maybe your wife should start talking to more wives about this, and then you won't hear people defending themselves so much.

[Nick2Nikki]

Personally I end up saying I'm not gay, simply because that's one of the first questions asked of me when someone learns I'm a transvestite. It's a common stereotype that most crossdressers are gay (a stereotype that really makes no sense to me), so it's usually just a case of trying to dispel a stereotype about crossdressers. If I'm not asked about my sexual orientation, I don't tell.

[Pythos]

For the same reason I don't like being called Japanese. Or why I don't like being called Itallian. How about being called a girl? Or being called a cat?

I don't like being called gay because, I am not gay.

If I were not Goth, would I want to be called such?

If I were gay, then I would not want to be called hetero.

I hope this simple explanation helps you understand that most of us are far from homophobic. Perhaps we are stereophobic (new word:P)

[Gina X]

I hope this simple explanation helps you understand that most of us are far from homophobic. Perhaps we are stereophobic (new word:P)

"Stereophobic" Why would you not like two channel music ?? LOL

[Debglam]

You know, I think that in an intimate conversation with your SO or someone else, it is one thing - you want to be honest and clear what your sexual preference is. I think generally speaking, and I believe that is what the OP is asking, is why the denial?

I think that most CD'ers are "indoctrinated" as children when they first start to grasp these feelings that the desire to crossdress, or any other gender confusion means that you MUST be gay. I don't think that most of us at that age can separate the two ourselves. I mean that is what you are being told, the only media portrayals of men dressed as women are drag queens (or psychopaths), etc. Being bombarded with this misinformation I think we all question our sexual preference around this time. Frankly, I think it takes a very long time before we start to "get" that there is a difference between sexual preference and gender identity. Even now I think that is the general assumption outside of the TG community. Once we finally figure out who we are, assuming we are not homosexual, I think that the "I'm not gay" kneejerk reaction still exists. I think as we all get more comfortable in our own skin, this will go away.

With that said, I can see how the LGB community would find it offensive and I won't go there unless it is directly on point. The denial can be taken that there is something wrong with "being gay." We need more unity between our communities and we should be sensitive to even slight offenses. I have no idea what it is like to be homosexual but I do know what it is like to be a small child with the weight of the world on your shoulders. We should build from our common experiences.

[Emme]

When I recently went hair shopping, I was asked if I was gay. My answer to her was, as a lesbian I would love to bite you on your butt. She really liked that!

I told the sales woman I was a cd. She said that until I spoke, she thought I was one really tall woman.

When I asked how many CDs came in dressed, she said, I was one of the very very few. She added that she sell a lot of wigs to men. She is always told that they buy them for their girl friend/wives.

[docrobbysherry]

Like Pythos says:

-------I hope this simple explanation helps you understand that most of us are far from homophobic. Perhaps we are stereophobic (new word:P)

All blacks can dance and play basketball!

All Hispanics work is manual labor!

All Asians drive badly!

All Canadians say, "Eh"!

Do U think ANY of these folks likes these stereotypes? Then, why should CDs like being thot of as gay?

Personally, if folks think I'm gay because I dress, that's FINE! Better than being thot of as some sort of creepy perv!

[GaleWarning]

For the same reason I don't like being called Japanese. Or why I don't like being called Itallian. How about being called a girl? Or being called a cat?

I don't like being called gay because, I am not gay.

If I were not Goth, would I want to be called such?

If I were gay, then I would not want to be called hetero.

I hope this simple explanation helps you understand that most of us are far from homophobic. Perhaps we are stereophobic (new word:P)

I perceive the seeds of a great comedy sketch here ... along the lines of ... A journalist is questioning a male MP here in NZ.

"Mr C, I believe you bought an expensive pair of Italian women's classic pumps whilst you were in London recently at the tax payers' expense."

C: "I paid for the trip and the shoes myself, they were cheap Chinese running shoes, and I bought them for my partner, Peter. Now leave me alone. You are only picking on me because I am gay."

Mr C does not wish to be perceived as one who squanders large sums of other people's money, nor as a crossdresser, but plays the "I am gay" card to deflect personal criticism.

This harks back to a thread I started recently. It's OK to be gay, but not OK to be a crossdresser.

[Stephanie Anne]

No clue. I like manwiches so I have no idea aside from crossdressing does not instantly mean you are not some homophobic bigot?

[DebsUK]

I don't think I've ever needed to assert that I wasn't gay, apart from to my wife.

I feel I should also add that I'm not gay. Mind you I do have some serious doubts about some of the men I've slept with

[Lorileah]

I am not....really going to get too deep in this as it has been discussed many time before here. My biggest issue with CD's spouting "I am not gay" is that they then wonder why the gay community won't help them out.

Saying "I am not gay" is appropriate when you are asked if you are and if you want to date or if your doctor needs to know. Telling people at a restaurant isn't.

I was recently hanging out with some friends of mine who happen to be Gay and the conversation came up about why Gay folk don't really care for Heterosexual Male to Female crossdressers. The answer " They are always going on about not being Gay. I understand that they are not but it gets kind of tiring hearing it, and sometimes it is offensive! If they were really comfortable with themselves they wouldn't need to broadcast it all over the place" When I asked if that was his only reason said "for me that is real pet peeve"

Well if this isn't just so...hypocritical. Somewhere along the line these people told everyone they knew they WERE gay. And I know a good many who broadcast it at every chance. We all don't go around wearing our preference on our sleeves just as many gays don't but this seems sort of elitist. You already said your friends were gay, so either they told you or you are guessing. Now repeating this over and over is annoying and one would wonder if when this happened to them it was more a reinforcement meant for the speaker to convince themselves they really weren't gay.

education. Maybe repeating we are not gay will someday convince the world...we are not all gay.

[AllieSF]

Daphne, I have also wondered the same thing. Why does someone feel the need to say that "I am not gay." when no one brought up that subject. I can clearly understand the need to say that when directly asked . or when someone implies that you are gay. Then it is a simple clarification to the true facts. I really don't care what someone calls me as long as they don't call me "Surley"! (or is that Shirley?) I think it just may have something to do with one's own insecurity of who they are and how comfortable or not they are with themselves.

[CherryZips]

You must have gotten over the o my God what are people going to think attitude, Yes? Or even here on the form. Is it really important to spout of " I am not Gay" every other sentence?

I guess people say it here to give context to what they are saying. We are all giving our experiences from different perspectives. I DO want to know the sexual identity of people so I know how I relate to what they are saying and what it means to me. I understand why people might by coy.

The answer " They are always going on about not being Gay. I understand that they are not but it gets kind of tiring hearing it, and sometimes it is offensive! If they were really comfortable with themselves they wouldn't need to broadcast it all over the place"

Yeah I completely understand that's annoying to hear that from crossdressers. But think of the context of a straight crossdresser and gay people together. Probably in a gay club. It maybe trans friendly but its a gay context and the cd is doing something that society (including much of the LGBT community) considers gay.

4. It is also well-known that, unlike men who generally like women who are bisexual, women find it pretty much the ultimate turn-off, and the vast majority on a primal level will never be with a man like that.

You will find that most open crossdressers who are not in a relationship tend to not care if they're being called or presumed gay or not.

These two points are in conflict. The first I agree with. The second relates to bisexual and gay crossdressers. You can't say women care deeply if a man sleeps with men and then say a het crossdresser doesn't care.

But I agree with your other points. I think the OP is perhaps clouded in their understanding by having such an accepting wife. But I might be wrong.

[NathalieX66]

I have often used the phrase "My dad says [I don't care if you're gay....just don't wear a dress]. the problem is I'm straight"....which is true.

I actually used this phrase on my guy fb page, with a photo of me. This is/was my attempt to clear the air that transgenderism and sexual preference are mutually exclusive. The average Joe or Jane does not know this.

[LaurenMc]

i don't think i've ever needed to assert that i wasn't gay, apart from to my wife.

I feel i should also add that i'm not gay. Mind you i do have some serious doubts about some of the men i've slept with

lol!! Best. Post. Ever!!!

[Deborah_UK]

I feel I should also add that I'm not gay. Mind you I do have some serious doubts about some of the men I've slept with

[Julogden]

Based on associating in person with a very large number of "heterosexual" CD's in my lifetime, I feel that many CD's make a big fuss over being NOT gay to impress SO's, some make a fuss about being straight in an effort to fool themselves.

I fully agree with Sophie C that many (IMO, maybe most) CD's are bisexual, at least in their desires if not actions, and I think that a lot of us have difficulty accepting that in ourselves, so some loudly proclaim to everyone that they are not gay while hiding the fact that they would really like to be sexual with other males.

I've been called gay plenty of times, including by people yelling "faggot" from passing cars a few times. It doesn't hurt, and it's never bothered me, other than to be concerned about the idiots in the car possibly stopping and trying to damage me physically.

Carol

[Sallee]

I believe the Movie Just like a Woman portrays a cross dresser who is not gay.
Generally I don't worry about what people think