FeAr

[Pythos]

Okay, I felt the need to post this after reading many many threads dealing with actions some of us have done.

These actions have upset those close to us and there is no other way to view it but they are a result of nothing less than fear.

Fear is the beginning point of most of the stupid and insane things we human beings do. As you know it is also a great thing for getting us out of problems that threaten our lives, or WELLBEING

Now I emphasize that last word because this is what we are addressing.

What is one of the main reason we don't dress as often as we like?

In my case it is fear. I would love to wear a skirt and hose along with a nice androgynous or even male outfit for work or even out and about. But fear controls my actions. Instead I put on either leggings or jeans. When I wear my leggings I bring along a pair of pants and regular boots so that when I get home I don't get the 3rd degree from my mom, or if I get into a bind where super shiny and tight pants would draw some unwanted attention.

I hide because of fear. Slight fear, but fear. My mother has proven she is entirely untrustworthy when it comes to her statements when it comes to my wearing "inappropriate" clothing for work. Instead of looking at what I do as trailblazing, or free thinking, instead to her I am "pulling for men" (blea).

Now, when it comes to SOs. I am getting tired of reading about an SO completely and utterly acting irrationally when their SO is either discovered as a CD or TS, or admits to being such.

In my case I am seriously getting tired of being single. I am sick and tired of seeing jerks getting girlfriends or wives, or married men getting the attention of a single girl, while I sit on the sidelines lonely as hell,

I have vowed that I will be fully open about myself. I will say I am a fashion freedomist, have no intention of transitioning, hetero sexual, goth, male that likes to take on a very feminine appearance.

This may be why I am single.

To the SOs of our kind. Understand. The hiding is not done to purposely hurt you. It is to avoid hurt. It is to avoid strife over something that only causes problems because of OTHER PEOPLE'S FEAR.

Other people like bosses, friends, society.

They don't want to risk the loss of someone so close to them, so they burry it, hoping it will go away when they are in a "proper" relationship.

One of the main issues is we treat what we do like it is some sort of disease.

IT IS NOT A FRAGGIN DISEASE!! It is something that is part of us.

I am sorry, but women DO have much more latitude when it comes to clothing and expression. I will be glad to post those rules women were to live by before the sexual revolution. I will also find the stuff about how in France it is STILL illegal for women to wear pants according to an unenforced law.

To those women that say women fought for this "right". YES YOU DID, AND GOOD FOR YOU. Does that mean others should have to go through the same nonsense with no support from you?

Though I am not gay, I do stand for their rights. I think don't as don't tell was one of the stupidest things to happen, along with women STILL not being allowed into front line military service.

KK, I got off track.

Let me just say, the reason a lot of dumb and silly stuff happens is because of fear.

Let me ask though. Would you rather your SO turn out to be a crossdresser, or would you rather he turns out to be oh lets see

A murderer?
A gang member?
A thief?
A cheater?
An alcoholic?
A beater?
An embezzler?
A drug addict?

Or any number of other things.

Really before you get pissed off with your loved one for hiding an aspect of him or herself that is harmless in the long run, really think about how serious the problem is.

[erica12b]

fear is a motivater, and a crippling agent, stupid human things

[Sandra]

You really don't get it do you......for most it is not the dressing that causes the problems and as you say women acting irrationally, it is the lying. You talk about fear, what about the fear that the women is feeling, fear that it is her fault, fear that he doesn't trust her.


I really don't know why I bother to post this though because you and others just don't seem to want to hear the truth.

[Stephanie Anne]

What do iron and argon have to do with crossdressing?

[Cynthia Anne]

You really don't get it do you......for most it is not the dressing that causes the problems and as you say women acting irrationally, it is the lying. You talk about fear, what about the fear that the women is feeling, fear that it is her fault, fear that he doesn't trust her.


I really don't know why I bother to post this though because you and others just don't seem to want to hear the truth.

Well said Sandra! I agree.

[Shelly Preston]

I can understand why an SO would be upset

I know when to people get together they normally agreee to share everything

Some years on they find out about being married to a crossdresser is it any surprise they feel betrayed

I dont see it as irrational behaviour. I have a lot of years trying to understand why I crossdress
Any SO who just found out must be in turmoil

[kimdl93]

You really don't get it do you......for most it is not the dressing that causes the problems and as you say women acting irrationally, it is the lying. You talk about fear, what about the fear that the women is feeling, fear that it is her fault, fear that he doesn't trust her.
:

I would say that yes, the SO has fears - of being deceived, of not being able to trust a person who hides something fudemental. At the same time, its certainly equally understandable that the fears of a cross dresser are legitimate too. Life experience teaches us that we will not be accepted by many people, that loved ones may ridicule or reject us, and that we're deviant, defective...or just plain bad. So everyone has a wealth of legitimate issues....and each of us has the potential to hurt others by acts of commision or ommision. The only way past this is to acknowledge both sides and move on. Get beyond the fear and accept each others' failings.

[Sandra]

Kimdl93

I agree that both parties have fears and believe me I understand the trans persons fears, but to expect the SO to just get on with things which is how most of the time it comes across is wrong.

If people talked more and was more open about everything then just maybe these fears would be a little less and easier to handle.

[Joanne f]

A murderer?
A gang member?
A thief?
A cheater?
An alcoholic?
A beater?
An embezzler?
A drug addict?

.

I don`t wish it be a spoilsport but a person can be all of those things and still be a cross dresser and we should take away the fear of are SOs and be honest with them once and for all .

[kimdl93]

Sandra,

I agree entirely. The key for the CDer is to be honest to themself first - accept themself and be willing to risk the relationship to maintain that honesty. Sometimes we don't know our selves all that well when we marry. I for example had persuaded myself that the CDing was a passing adolescent fantasy. After I was married, my (first) wife invited me to wear some of her things - and my racing heart betrayed me....she knew right away that this struck a cord for me. I told her everything I knew about this part of myself (we were both pretty young) Fortunately, she was incredibly understanding. (Note - we divorced after more than 10 years of marriage, for un related reasons.

I know that if she'd come home and found me in her things - or discover a hidden clothes, her reaction would have been far different, and justifiably so.

[Sara Jessica]

First of all, let me say that I understand your POV. I get where you're coming from, the whole blurring of the gender lines thing. I have empathy for your situation and I support you and others who share similar sentiments.

However, it should be no surprise to anyone that in our society, there is a marked difference between what is male and what is female. Yes, the hiding, lies & deceit may be behind many of the problems faced in relationships where one partner is somewhere on the TG spectrum but at the end of the day, most women dream of growing up to marry their prince. The vision is most often 100% male, a guy's guy who doesn't give his gender a second thought, just as she doesn't give hers a second thought. It is what she is attracted to. Deviation from that, regardless of reason, is sometimes asking way too much despite the underlying love that might be there.

I'm sure you've heard the expression used by many of our SO's, "I didn't sign up for this". Well, they didn't. It is no fault of their own that they have such difficulty with the gender thing. It is what it is. I understand this which is why I don't harbor any ill feelings towards my SO as our relationship feels like it is going into the toilet as I continue to fly down the rabbit-hole that is this gender thing. And it is the same reason that I have such empathy for any SO out there who is struggling.

It's no one's fault but for the most part (as in absent other issues in the relationship), our SO's are not the instigator in the whole thing.

[ReineD]

Pythos. We all have choices in life. If a CDer cannot be honest about who she is from the beginning of a relationship, it is on her and not the potential partner if there are issues down the road. It is THAT simple.

[RACH99]

Hi again Pythos. Nice to see some things don't change around this place. You [general membership here] say you look for honesty here yet when you get it you complain that it isn't what is needed at all. Would you rather we all lied to our SO's and became Stepford wifes and ??? We GG's have fears and we have a real reason for them. I took a huge leap of faith my hubby didn't. If you don't want to face a partners fears come out of the bloody closet already and stop blaming the general population for it. Stop whining and start educating others.

I was 2 months into our relationship [with my now SO] when I knew this was a man I could see spending my life with. I took a very shaky breath and told him all about the "real" me. I know what fear of rejection is. Been there done that...several times. Don't tell me about society not getting it. How very unfair it is. Again been there done that. Don't whine about how you shouldn't need to have the same struggles women did to earn the freedom to dress as we pleased in this country. Fight your own fear little brother and wear what you please.

BTW I am not angry with you. I think of you as a little brother or sister who can on occasion be a royal pain in the ass. But on the whole I actually like you. Go figure.

[JohnH]

Sometimes when someone gets married (s)he discovers a feminine side. I got married in July 2009 and I kind of eased into crossdressing by the following:

1. Converting jeans into denim skirts
2. With my wife's blessing, buying nightgowns and a sundress
3. Behind her back, buying denim skirts, additional nightgowns, sandals, and a dress.
4. Buying a lot of nail polish - which she bums off of me
5. Finding dresses and shoes my ex-wife left that fit me

After getting the garments and shoes I never kept them a secret nor did I crossdress without her knowing it.
I keep my feminine items in plain sight and all the neighbors know about my expanded wardrobe options.
I have never deleted my browsing history.

She asked me point blank this morning when I was going to go on hormones since she looked at my browsing activities on this forum and she calls me Johanna some of the time.

What I am saying is that sometimes transgender tendencies can surface after a marriage and cause some grief. I guess what I should have done is to tell my wife what I was ordering and not get those items behind her back.

If I would have known about my transgender tendencies before marrying my wife I think I would have told her straight out.

I am sorry, but women DO have much more latitude when it comes to clothing and expression.

Society is to blame to a certain extent since it decrees that it is shameful for a man to wear feminine attire. It takes a lot of courage for a man to admit that he crossdresses. If there were not the shame men would not keep their crossdressing activities a secret.

Johanna

[Pythos]

Um...RACH99. You seem to have completely missunderstood what this post was about.

It was dealing with the fears people have. It actually had little to do with me. The poster previous to you also seems to have missed the point. I never mentioned my own odd style of blending the lines. I was simply stating how I find it amazing how SOs just do not see this.

The second poster really missed the mark. I was not whining. I was simply stating why it is many CDs hide. "it is not about the clothing but the hiding" yes, the hiding of the clothing. If he outright went and put on those clothes would you stick with him?

RACH99, I was not whining about ANYTHING in this. So your whole thing about my mentioning of the struggles of women was also signs of missunderstanding.

I for one am only in the closet so to say when it comes to my mother, because I don't want to deal with her silliness, and work (the aviation side) because....I put too much work into my ratings to have some overzealous FAA dude take it away for being "mentally unfit".

[AlannahNorth]

Well said - fear is a big one.

[Eryn]

What do iron and argon have to do with crossdressing?

I'm glad at least one other person had that thought. That's why I love this forum!

[Lucy_Bella]

I can relate to where you are coming from,
I have been open to my ex about myself from the start of our relationship. Tho not fully accepted from the start it didn't get any better , in fact she couldn't stand the thought of it within the last 10 years of marriage. Even tho I never did it in front of her.
Now while married to her ,she also didn't approve of my drinking ,it too was way out of hand from the start and grew into a once in a great while enjoyment.. At the end of our relationship and as much crap that I took about drinking she choose to date a heavy drinker ..She could not accept my desire to dress but she accepted an acolholic?

I do feel that a majority of women ( GG's) refuse to accept a Cder as a partner..They can not handle a male expressing but not engulped in showing his Femme side although he lived male 99.9% of the time,... Sad..

[Pythos]

and Sandra. What exactly is the truth?

What is it in my post that shows "I don't get it?"

I seem to get that the lying is the result of fear. That is what the post was addressing for the most part.

The woman fearing it might be her fault is still just yet another fear, and an irrational one. Fear he doesn't trust her? That is what I am addressing. YES fear she will drop him like a rock.

That is a legitimate fear, and many people live with that fear. So as I said, they hide and yes, lie.

No use for the little angry faces. This is a discussion, and one that I think has been missed.

Fear is the mind killer. It is the little death. But do we face our fear and let it pass over us so that when we turn around there is only yourself? No, we all for the most part allow it to control us.

I don't get the reference to Iron, and Argon. I am completely missing this that I did not have intentionally in my post.

[Eryn]

I don't get the reference to Iron, and Argon. I am completely missing this that I did not have intentionally in my post.

Congratulations, you are not a geek. Fe is the symbol for iron. Ar is the symbol for argon. The fact that you capitalized the A in "Fear" made it look like a chemical formula for iron combined with argon, a very improbable combination.

Meanwhile back in your serious discussion which I apologize for disrupting, I'd like to point out that what we call fear is often called caution. Fear is what keeps us safe in many cases. Far from killing the mind, it is often the thing that keeps that mind out of harm's way.

[Pythos]

Heh! that's funny. Here I was just doing some silly stuff with the letters and it turns out I had stuff from the periodic table.

Oh, and I am a geek, a major sci fi loving, tech savy, Geek, and damned proud of it.

[eluuzion]

Ah, a chance to me to imitate the results of a google search, lol. Ask about tap water and learn about hydrogen content on Venus...lol ok, here I go...

"Reality" is absolute, our perceptions of it aren't.

~It all comes down to personal perception~

There are different forms of "fear".
-The fear "instinct" is an innate human survival instinct. It protects us from real danger and keeps us alive by engaging the adrenaline rush of the "fight or flight" mechanism.

-Fear is also a human emotion based on personal perception. We all need to feel "safe". When we are not certain about something, we cannot predict what might happen, and thus we have no sense of control over it, which makes us view it as a "threat". Threat can lead to fear, which leads to imagined outcomes, which leads to stress.

Fear can be "real" or "non-existent". That is determined by personal perceptions. Standing on a chair to avoid being bitten by the mouse sitting on the floor is "real" because a "threat" really exists.
Sometimes we feel threatened by a danger when there is no concrete evidence to suggest any danger may exist. Standing on a chair with no visible mouse on the floor "because there is one hiding close by" is illogical assumption and questionable behavior. This is called paranoia. (The determining factor in the label being whether a real threat exists or does not exist.)

"Fear" is often used in various contexts on CD forums to "justify" or "excuse" actions and behaviors which are typically judged to be deceptive and/or unethical when defined by social norms. The accounts shared in posts are often preceded by a proclamation of an honest character being forced to unwillingly participate in “out of character” actions in order to insulate, protect, defend or save their relationship from the threats that will attempt to destroy them if their secret is revealed. These “threats” may take the form of a SO, family members or various segments of society.

The question is this. Are these “threats” and “fears” justified (real)?

Are they “real”?... meaning there is concrete evidence to support the outcome they predict is correct? The SO will definitely leave them or reject them? Society will definitely abuse/destroy them?

Is it “paranoia”?... meaning the fear is based upon perceptions, not proven “threats”, ( no concrete evidence to prove that those threats actually exist). Is there proof that the SO will freak out? Proof that all society will reject them? Proof that honesty will produce negative outcomes and/or destroy them?

Or is it something else... like Cognitive Dissonance, procrastination, narcissism, self-denial, lack of courage, questionable character, lack of empathy, personal agenda, lack of moral compass, MPD, dissociative whatever, or the mysterious work of the “personality-splitting fairy”?

Fears and threats must also be interpreted in proper perspective. People have been killed from walking in front of trains, so the threat and the fear is genuine. No one (I am aware of), has died from being honest with an SO about their CD interests.

These types of “fears” can be overcome. The fear is not being physically afraid of another person or group. The fear is generated internally by your perceptions about the person or group. The fear was not “yours” and it was not towards someone/something stronger than you. The fear is in what you think he/she might do, or will think about you if you reveal your secret or confront the subject of your fears. That type of fear is always a perception, not a reality.

That realization is the key to disabling your fears. You change your perspective by looking at fears as an interesting (but uncomfortable) emotional feeling that is worth investigating. So you muster up the courage to unravel it, by confronting the threat. Unless it happens to be a freight train, chances are good that the outcome will not be as devastating as you perceived it would be. Many times the reaction you receive will be totally different than you expected. At a minimum, you have achieved the primary goal of erasing the fear.

The only other thing I have to add is a quote that I happen to believe is true...

“Comparing something wrong with something worse, never makes it right”

I am just sharing personal observations and thoughts. I have no interest or objective in judging or criticizing any personal behavior or strategies of other people. Whatever works for them, is “right” for them. There are plenty of eager volunteers adopting that gate-keeper role...parents, attorneys, judges, vigilantes, priests, SOs, wives, ex-wives, forum trolls, friends, relatives, losers...the forest is full of them...lol. I have my hands full managing my own life and I am not interested in adopting anybody else...lol

just my thoughts...

HaveFun/BeHappy

[Sara Jessica]

...The poster previous to you also seems to have missed the point. I never mentioned my own odd style of blending the lines. I was simply stating how I find it amazing how SOs just do not see this.

If I am "the poster previous to you" then yes, I bought blending the lines up for two reasons. The first being you did in fact mention it...

"In my case it is fear. I would love to wear a skirt and hose along with a nice androgynous or even male outfit for work or even out and about."

But more importantly, I didn't want to offend your POV in discussing the obvious, the differences between the sexes which is really where a lot of the fear you talk about comes from.

You have taken ownership of your fear yet you begrudge others for doing the same? Whether it's the TG person, fearing loss of family, friends, impact on career, etc., or the SO fearing the same things along with her dreams being shattered, seems we're all in this together.

Oh, and I am a geek, a major sci fi loving, tech savy, Geek, and damned proud of it.

Fear is the mind killer. It is the little death....

Dune anyone???

[Valerie Nova]

You don't HAVE to be single. You can probably find bisexual girls that don't mind the gender-bending. Plus, there's always the off-chance you can get a threesome if you're into that kind of thing.

[Pythos]

Whoops, I pointed out the wrong poster. The poster previous was ReineD.

I don't think in this post I am begrudging anyone of their fear. The point of this post was to give at least one reason people hide, and that is fear.

I don't understand why this is being met with statements along the lines of "stop whining" or "your bugrudging people..." and so on.

I have always admitted to my hiding, and why I hide, as well as who I hide from.

I think the issue readers of this post are having is they think I wrote this about me. No, it is not just about me, it is about fear. I used myself as an example, that is the extent to which I am involved in this post.

Please read my posts through, because if you read between the lines you most likely will miss what I am trying to convey.

Heh, I am finding at least around here, Bisexual girls also hide their true selves. Once again, out of fear. The GG I am with there is no hope of anything happnening with, which is a shame cause she is bi, but man has she got luggage.