A Quick Question

[Nisha]

Hi All,

Recently I was at a Mall, en-fem and I stopped to get a bite. Weather was gorgeous - sunny and warm with light breeze. So I decided to take my tray to the outside and sat down at a table on the sidewalk meant for exactly that purpose, enjoying my food and the weather.

After a while I saw another woman coming out with a tray and looking around for a vacant place table. No table was completely free. However all other partially filled tables had a man sitting at them.

The woman approached me and asked me if she could share the table with me. To me it seemed she did not want to share a table with a strange man. I said yes, of course and she sat down and started eating. After a few bites she started talking to me starting with weather but quickly getting into shopping and many other girl-talk. I tried my best to keep up with her but she definitely spoke more than me.

Now not to brag or anything but I pass reasonably well, including my voice. I don't think she noticed or suspected that I was a CD. She did not bring it up during the conversation in anyway - not even a hint.

Now my quick question is - under the circumstances, what is my obligation? Should I have pointed out that I am a CD and that she will be sharing the table with a man-in-a-dress?

- Nisha.

[kimdl93]

personally, I don't think you had any such obligation. You did the courteous thing by sharing a table and polite conversation with her.

[marissa_sissy]

I guess it would have depended on whether you really felt like you wanted to. She sounds like an open minded person, and of all the men there, you would have likely been by far the most harmless. If she did not know, I say, well done. If she did, I commend you for making her feel welcome, and just trying to be yourself.

Society is funny in that if a woman shows up dressed like a man from head to toe, it is fashionable. If a man shows up completely dressed as woman in a public place, he is often labeled a perv. It is a razor thin line we walk (in heels...lol) at times. I think you did well.

[Cynthia Anne]

I think it's great that you passed so well! I don't see any obligation to tell her any thing! You could just be spoiling a great moment you both shared!

[Rachel05]

No I think she was happy with you and she was obviously at home with you as she seemed to have a good old chat, so I think in those circumstances leave well alone

[Lorileah]

Your obligation was to be polite and friendly, I think you did that.

[Persephone]

Lorileah has said it perfectly (as always, she gets here minutes before me and says the right thing).

I've never understood why anyone once accepted en femme would feel compelled to run around declaring themselves to be a man in a dress.

[Rianna Humble]

my quick question is - under the circumstances, what is my obligation? Should I have pointed out that I am a CD and that she will be sharing the table with a man-in-a-dress?

IMNSHO, if she had sais in so many words that she didn't want to share a table with a man, then (and only then) you would have had a moral obligation to declare your natal sex. As it was she did not say that and (as others have said) you fulfilled your duty by being hospitable.

Society is funny in that if a woman shows up dressed like a man from head to toe, it is fashionable.

I'm sorry, I get fed up with seeing this rubbish trumpeted in these forums. If a woman wears women's clothes she is not dressing like a man, neither is she cross-dressing. In my 55 years on this earth, I can count on less than 1 finger the number of times I have met a genetic woman who was wearing men's clothes and was not FtM

[Kate Simmons]

In a word, no. Evidently she enjoyed your company.

[Mary Morgan]

It seems to me that the situation was executed as designed. She may or may not have figured out what was going on, but like you she was simply enjoying the company, the food and the day.
A perfect interaction I think.

[Nisha]

One voice!!!

Thank you friends. :-)

[Amelia]

I wouldn't have thought you were under any obligation to disclose anything, as there was no budding relationship. You were just two strangers enjoying a meal.

I'm sorry, I get fed up with seeing this rubbish trumpeted in these forums. If a woman wears women's clothes she is not dressing like a man, neither is she cross-dressing. In my 55 years on this earth, I can count on less than 1 finger the number of times I have met a genetic woman who was wearing men's clothes and was not FtM

Pardon for the thread hijack. While I agree that those saying that "it isn't fair that women can wear pants, but I can't wear a skirt" are misguided, I disagree with your insinuation that women do not wear men's clothing. I know many girls that wear men's t-shirts, wear men's jeans, men's shoe's, and even one that wears men's underwear that would not be considered crossdressers. I've had girlfriends wear my clothes. Crossdressing is a tad more complex than simply wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

Oh, and if you are a genetic male and wish to wear a skirt in public, buy a kilt. Just be careful if you go regimental in a strong wind.

[Julogden]

I'm sorry, I get fed up with seeing this rubbish trumpeted in these forums. If a woman wears women's clothes she is not dressing like a man, neither is she cross-dressing. In my 55 years on this earth, I can count on less than 1 finger the number of times I have met a genetic woman who was wearing men's clothes and was not FtM

I think you meant "If a woman wears men's clothes", right?

I've met, and know, genetic females who often wear all men's (outer) clothing lots of times, and they were/are not FTM. But I'm not getting your point here. Are you saying that you've never seen a non transgendered female wearing men's clothes?

Carol

[TxKimberly]

Your obligation was to be polite and friendly, I think you did that.

Bingo! I think Lorileah got it exactly right and so did you!

[Phoebe P.]

Oh, and if you are a genetic male and wish to wear a skirt in public, buy a kilt. Just be careful if you go regimental in a strong wind.

That's very funny! LOL!

[Comet]

I'm jumping on the bandwagon here, there was no dishonesty and no obligation here. Glad you had a nice experience like that.

[docrobbysherry]

I can't answer for U, Nisha! But, here's how to FIND your correct answer!

If the situation were reversed. And, U were in drab and a sort of masculine "woman" sat down at your table and u 2 had a nice conversation.
Would u THEN expect him/her to bring up CDing to u?

[ashlylynn]

You had no obligation.
But it would have been HILARIOUS if you told her as you were parting how much you enjoyed her company and conversation
and that you understand how much drama there could be sitting with one of the other men as opposed to "you" - a crossdresser
who obviously wouldn't .... (see below)

The only reason she did not want to sit with a MAN is so that she would not need to deal with THE DRAMA of

1- him hitting on her, with the notion that "she really wanted to screw me - had nothing to do with wanting a place to eat" ( despite all other tables busy )
2- his wife or gf walking in and making a scene with her ( she wouldn't care that he was in trouble - just didn't want to get in a fight )
3- him REJECTING her ( sorry, no - you can't sit here ) because then she'd wonder if it was because od # 2 or because there was something wrong with her ( and it would be due the thing she is most insecure about - whatever that might be - fat ankles, short eyelashes, wrong eyeshadow for this season , w/e )

[ashlylynn]

I wouldn't have thought you were under any obligation to disclose anything, as there was no budding relationship. You were just two strangers enjoying a meal.



Pardon for the thread hijack. While I agree that those saying that "it isn't fair that women can wear pants, but I can't wear a skirt" are misguided, I disagree with your insinuation that women do not wear men's clothing. I know many girls that wear men's t-shirts, wear men's jeans, men's shoe's, and even one that wears men's underwear that would not be considered crossdressers. I've had girlfriends wear my clothes. Crossdressing is a tad more complex than simply wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

Oh, and if you are a genetic male and wish to wear a skirt in public, buy a kilt. Just be careful if you go regimental in a strong wind.

Women do wear men's clothing. But at 4 years old, a boy will freak out if you put a pink shirt on him.
A girl may cry that the BLUE shirt is not PRETTY ...but ... she won't care if it's a "boy's" shirt.

Up until the 60's or it was totally inappropriate for women to wear pants.
Skirts and dresses are about ACCESS FOR MALES do do what needs doin
and for easy maintenance of the "down there stuff" which in older times
would have made pants unwearble anyway, even standing in the kitchen
all day with an old rag pinned to the undies without sitting down once
you'd still ruin pants. But dresses/skirts are also a means of preventing
UTILITY of the female - we can't DO much in a skirt.

Do you know what a Chatelaine is? It's a little purse - like belt attachment
for carrying stuff we needed because ( in the days before purses )
manufacturers ( all run by men ) did not put POCKETS on dresses
so that we could not even carry MONEY. ( Not that we were allowed to
earn or even POSSESS money in many places ).

At one point, all men wore open-bottomed garb - but progressed to more
functional garb, while women were forced by both social expectations
and the impossibility of practicality of pants until along came tampons.
I mean - we couldn't very well wear pants just 25 days a month
or we might as well just tell the whole world we were on the rag.

[Kathy4ever]

I agree you were not being dishonest. If you pass easily then I guess she felt better to be with you even if she knew you were not a gg. Obvious she did not want to sit with another man afraid she was going to be hit on or something else. She felt comfortale talking with you just like any two girls would be. Why waste the opputunity and be honest and then she might of freaked out or something. It wasn't like you were asking her out or anything. You probably will never see her again. Why take the chance that you might scar her. On the other hand you might of found the person that you coulld share your inner self with. I think it better to restrain ourselves and just go with the flow.

[Sally24]

IMNSHO, if she had said in so many words that she didn't want to share a table with a man, then (and only then) you would have had a moral obligation to declare your natal sex.

Sorry but I have to disagree. You aren't planning a relationship so your plumbing is nobody's business. If she accepted you as the woman you were presenting as than all is good.

When I go out I present and act and expect to be treated as a lady. If a man opens the door for me, I don't decline and explain that I'm really a man. I interact with people as a woman and mostly am treated just so. It's these little interactions that really make going out into mainstream society so rewarding.

[noeleena]

Hi.

Up to only the 60 s then what did our women wear during the 2nd w, war. pants, trousers, & overalls

Im A Chateleine, = Lady of the Castle as a member of the S C A ,

Im allso A Edwardian member we dress in the 1900 to 1910 , dresses are not easy access for men the underlays hoops & under dress garments i think are not quite the same as to day. have you seen let alone worn what women wore in those times, then you may see its not quite the same , & women wore the pants then just called bloomers or what would be called modern day pants.

meanings = Chateleine
1,
a, The mistress of a Castle.
b,The mistress of a large fashionable household ,

2,
A clasp or chain worn at the waist for holding keys, purse or a watch.

Thanks Ashlylynn, Nice to see some one else up with the play..

Nisha,
As a woman i have many people other women come to me with out any problem they accept who i am & are quite happy talking with me , in a place like you were at i would with out any thought sit with you wether your male or woman as you were presenting as a woman just being there was a good enough reason to sit at your table , I would sit at the male table if i had to tho id prefer not to. one reason i would rather be in womens company as its just how some of us are.


...noeleena...

[Amelia]

Women do wear men's clothing. But at 4 years old, a boy will freak out if you put a pink shirt on him.
A girl may cry that the BLUE shirt is not PRETTY ...but ... she won't care if it's a "boy's" shirt.

Up until the 60's or it was totally inappropriate for women to wear pants.
Skirts and dresses are about ACCESS FOR MALES do do what needs doin
and for easy maintenance of the "down there stuff" which in older times
would have made pants unwearble anyway, even standing in the kitchen
all day with an old rag pinned to the undies without sitting down once
you'd still ruin pants. But dresses/skirts are also a means of preventing
UTILITY of the female - we can't DO much in a skirt.

Do you know what a Chatelaine is? It's a little purse - like belt attachment
for carrying stuff we needed because ( in the days before purses )
manufacturers ( all run by men ) did not put POCKETS on dresses
so that we could not even carry MONEY. ( Not that we were allowed to
earn or even POSSESS money in many places ).

At one point, all men wore open-bottomed garb - but progressed to more
functional garb, while women were forced by both social expectations
and the impossibility of practicality of pants until along came tampons.
I mean - we couldn't very well wear pants just 25 days a month
or we might as well just tell the whole world we were on the rag.

I think you are slightly wrong on a few points. Pink is fashionable for males in today's style, so that would not necessarily be an issue. I would not have freaked out at four years old. Pink has always been my favourite colour.

Women wore trousers well before the 60's. WW2 for example; it is hard to weld and rivet in a skirt. I also don't think that skirts and dresses are for easy access, they are an evolution of fashion over time.

Do you know what a sporran is? It is a belt attachment to carry stuff for MEN that wear KILTS, which are also pocketless.

[linda allen]

You weren't under any obligation to tell her or even talk to her if that's the way you felt. It's great that you did though and I'm sure you enjoyed the time.