I don't think that it is MODERN society that has a problem with TG/CD folk. I think it's left over from the 50s and 60s. I find that most contemporary people just don't care at all what you wear.
S
I don't think that it is MODERN society that has a problem with TG/CD folk. I think it's left over from the 50s and 60s. I find that most contemporary people just don't care at all what you wear.
S
Here in Aus, we have recently celebrated fashion week, mainly put on by the big retail chains and hugely popular. A sensation this fashion season has been a tall slim doe-eyed blonde from the backblocks of Melbourne named Andrej Pejic, who originated from war-torn Boznia-Hertzagovnia with his family. Andrej is male, and has shot to fame all over the world modelling female clothing. With strikingly good female looks to die for, he has strutted the major catwalks of Paris to raptous applause from all those involved in the fashion industry. So where does that leave us, girlfriends ??
Need I say more....
Jannine. XXX
Last edited by Jannine; 04-05-2011 at 05:07 PM.
What the heck did I do this time ??
Society has made leaps and bounds with regards to crossdressing. Sure, it's not perfect, but I'd venture to say that you'll be safe in most places if you use common sense.
I've heard of him (her?). :-)Originally Posted by Jannine
The first thought in my head was "Not again!" Did the original poster not read this recent thread?
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ng-told-we-are
Indeed!I agree with the other opinions here: it's a different world than it was not too long ago.
Yes, I've said that for years.if anyone has gender identity issues, they really need to work on them and figure out who they are before getting into a serious relationship.
Veronica
If you believe in it, makeup has a magic all it's own -- Sooner or Later (TV movie)
We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?- Marianne Williamson
Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does.
Christine, I think that a lot of us assume that society has a problem with us. I have traveled all over the country cross dressed for the last five or six years and have met with very little but smiles and a great attitude. If you head out the door assuming that you will meet with hostility, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Head out the door assuming that this is your life, and you are free to live it as you please, and that people will behave like adults, and you just might be surprised.My experience has been that most people don't care if they read you.
tangent: if you're a frequent flyer like Kim, opt for the groping if they want you to do the radiation-porn-device, to avoid repeated radiation exposure. Explanation doesn't inspire confidence: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...test-bungling/
And let's not continue the absurdity of calling women wearing what they like crossdressing if it involves pants. Wear what you want and BE A MAN ABOUT IT.
"as a whole they have problems with themselves"
I would NEVER say anything like TS's as a whole... let's not damn everyone with one brush. People are individuals.
Last edited by Fab Karen; 04-07-2011 at 08:34 PM.
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
LGBTQ PRIDE
As of Oct. 5th, go here to see my pics:http://www.flickr.com/people/fab_karen/
A Yankee Doodle T-Girl
proud of my President
Don't worry about the X-ray exposure. You will generally get more from the flight itself due to the high altitude's lack of atmospheric shielding. Flight attendant is a job with one of highest levels of radiation exposure. (A good argument for a decent high-speed rail system in the US?)
As for acceptance of diverse male attire, we all just need to get out more so that people get used to it.
Juno Michelle Krahn
Normal people are weird. Stealth is another word for "in the closet".
Ok I have read through both pages of responses and can't hold my tongue anymore.
1. Women wearing mens clothes don't do anything to hide their breast, wear false facial hair, change their behavior to appear more masculine, or go by a different name.
2. If its about wearing female clothes go ahead sans the make up, tucking, wigs, different name, etc.
3. If in fact you consider yourself just a Crossdresser and not TG why all the post about how do I do this or that to "appear" more like a woman?
4. I noticed 99.999% of you all have female names on this forum, if you wanted to be a crossdresser and protect you identity why would you have not just choosen a fake male name?
I know for myself I started wearing the clothes and it set off a trigger in my mind that I had suppressed for years and at every step so far I have told myself and others "oh its just this or that". When I finally accepted myself for myself and did not put limits on what I do is when people treated me as a person. Which it sounds to me as what the OP is searching for. As for me I am fullblown transitioning MTF. And wearing my clothes is the same as everyone elses. I still put my jeans on one leg at a time.
Jennifer
Last edited by Jennie1975; 04-05-2011 at 07:40 PM. Reason: added bullet point #4
[SIZE="2"]I get really tired reading about this TIRED topic – if you dislike the idea of women wearing pants, or if you detect some type of malicious injustice (as it pertains to crossdressing), just say so, OK? I don’t care WHAT women wear – it has nothing to do with why I wear women’s clothing, nor does it fuel my own quest for femininity, or whatever you wish to call it, since clothing is, or can be, a form of expression. I’ve NEVER thought of women wearing clothes designed for women, yet having their counterpart or inspiration in male attire, as a form of crossdressing. Can we embrace the idea of practicality, please? Can we at least allow women to try to keep warm and enclosed and secure, rather than under-dressed, vulnerable and insecure, all with an eye towards long-denied equality? There’s a reason why men dress the way they do – why can’t women do the same? Welcome to the 21st century – get real…
[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]That’s the correct word – ABSURD![/SIZE]
When I wear skirts in public as a man, I do not consider myself crossdressing, but dressing to be comfortable.
Whenever I have worn a skirt in male mode, there have never been any issues at all.
I have to agree with this. Sure, there are all the other arguments, like "people don't really care" and "we do it to ourselves", etc.....but the fact is people really do have a problem with this. Just like the asinine comments on the body building site that was referred to earlier, there is a rampant ingrained homophobia in much of our society, and we get lumped into it for whatever reason. The only way to rise above it is to ignore it and go about our business as though there is nothing wrong. Like all things, it works itself out over time. Sometimes, it's a looooong time.
Any money found in the laundry is MINE!
"This is no social crisis....this is me having fun!"
www.flickr.com/photos/tgmarla/
Women wear trouser suits made for women therefore they are NOT cross dressing , most male cross dressers wear a bra, wig and anything they can to present as a woman , there is a big difference .
You would have to dress on equal terms to make that argument work ( in my opinion)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Joanne
It is just such a tough deal, and I live in a tough working class city, where the attitude on this is not exactly positive.
Its funny, but there is still a real societal struggle going on with men in womens clothes. Yet, a woman can walk around in mans clothes, and nobody even looks twice.
I do have an example, and it was outlined by me in another thread. A few years ago Dianne Keaton wore a tux and essentially dressed like a man to the Oscars, and was on the cover of dozens of magazines, being called a fashion visionary, and all of this. She was lauded for taking a chance, and crossing into a unique boundary, etc.
Yet, David Carradine, who did a lot for this world including endorsing an entire way of life and martial art, and several human projects, dies in a hotel room. News agencies everywhere focused on but one thing on the man. The fact that he had a closet full of skimpy, tarty lingerie and fishnet stockings that he had been wearing. The radio stations in Edmonton had a field day, and could not find one nice thing to say about the guy, except that (gasp) he wore womens underwear in the privacy of his own home.
It is just a fact. If a woman dresses as a man she is bold and trendy. If a man dresses as a woman, he is kinky and perverted. It is the societal double standard de jour. Why?
Your guess is a s good as mine. But where I live, I am too afraid of someone acting like a weirdo redneck to me, or seeing someone I know, as I have lived here all of my life. (Edmonton) My wife although extremely supportive and wonderful, likely would not be caught dead with me. Although I am considering going out on Halloween, which is a day when I can dress, and not really worry about the repercussions. I think this year, I will find a way to dress and go out on that day.
I've kept out if this, I think most of you know my views on this and I have to say that the above comment is crap. Just becasue a woman wears pants/trousers she is NOT dressing as a man, she is not presenting as a man, unless of course it's an FtM...but hey why waste my breath !!!!!!!
Some people do have this thought and it is wrong. People who think like this just don't understand the community and need educating.
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
It is just a fact. If a woman dresses as a man she is bold and trendy. If a man dresses as a woman, he is kinky and perverted. It is the societal double standard de jour. Why?
That statement is certainly NOT crap.
What WAS meant by this is that women dress in this fashion to make purely a FASHION statement. It has NOTHING to do with dressing as a man, wanting to be a man or to be like a man. End of story. She is merely following trends and if it makes her feel empowered, then may the force be with her!!!!
As for the rest of this thread, who cares if it has been all said before???
As I see it, debate is the mainstay of this forum, (any debate, about anything) and to have fresh opinions about whatever can only serve to make this a more interesting place for old as well as newer members.
Jannine. XX
What the heck did I do this time ??
PLEASE!! NOT THAT OLD CHESTNUT AGAIN!
If tyou think that Female to Male cross-dressing does not pose a problem, go across to the FtM section and tell them that they are only imagining the rejection, scorn and hatred that they get heaped upon them. Isn't it bad enough that people who are ignorant of gender issues do that to them without members of this forum belittling their experiences in this way.
And before you say that they don't count, or you were talking about cis-women threads like that abound in these forums and quite rightly offend the GG's who come here to support us. Just because women wear clothes designed and tailored for women but which bear a vague resemblance to clothes traditionally worn by men, this does not mean that they are cross dressing.
It's as bad as saying that men in kilts are cross-dressing.
There are some unisex garments such as tee shirts which are often trotted out as an illustration of women wearing clothes designed and tailored for men. Guess what? I cal that Bovine Scatology!
If you have a problem with not being accepted when you as a man choose to wear clothes designed and tailored for women, please don't blame it on women who wear women's clothes and please do not treat our FtM brethren as if their problems do not exist or do not count.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I try to read all the posting on this thread and other threads like it!! Sometimes I have to look up the accepted definition of cross-dressing. As a broad statement a cross dresser wears an article of clothing normally associated with the opposite gender. Here I am sitting in a bra stuffed with water balloons (can't get up the balls to get breast forms, YET!). I'm wearing a gray wig, although I would never wear a toupee. I have a girdle on, stockings, high heels, a dress and a slip. No makeup today because, well, it is too much work for so little time. If my wife were to pass on today, tomorrow I would shave my legs, arms, and the back of my hands. I still would need the wig- God isn't going to work miracles up there!
Some of the respondents here are transgenders. I am not! I am not a male incarcerated in a male body. If I want to dress for comfort, I'd wear my jean shorts with holes, torn tee shirt and sweat socks. My wife refuses to be seen in public with me, as either Stephanie or in my holey jeans. If I wanted to dress for comfort, even in my neck of woods where heat waves are at 75 degrees with low humidity, I'd be dressing as a bum. I love wearing woman's dresses, heels and undergarments. Why, I don't know! Nobody dressed me up when I was young! I try to present as a woman, because, well, sometimes I want to be a woman.
As to a woman wearing male attire, it does not make them a cross dresser in my sense of the word. My wife and daughter wear pants and tops for comfort, but, styled for women. My wife's and daughter's biggest complaint about pants for women is the lack of pockets. Each hates carrying a big trash bag for tons of stuff they do not need at the moment.
Some of you wear women's clothing for comfort- more power to you. But, are you presenting as a female? I am trying to present a feminine side of myself. What of that line of new sports attire with a cut for the form of a woman? I need to get some Jets or Giant attire. No need for baggy beer gut looking jersey's when you can look that sexy!
I am a cross dresser presenting as a woman. When my wife and daughter wear male looking jeans, flannel shirts, etc, they are women dressing for comfort and NOT presenting as a male.
I drove my wife off the cliff when I decided I needed to by and bra. She could not understand why a male without man boobs needed to stuff a bra and wear it? Oh, well, I need to go shave my facial hair!
I agree with others that society is tolerant of people expressing themselves in public. You can safely walk around the streets and are unlikely to have any bad experiences.
However that has nothing to do with the issue of social acceptance. Society DOES have a problem with crossdressers. We are a group they would rather not have to see on the streets and a group still linked with deviant behaviors. As was pointed out any crossdresser unfortunate enough to be caught up in a media event is slaughtered by the media. We are a group which can be openly mocked without inducing guilt.
The root cause of this attitude is ignorance. That is partly our fault for being a closteted community but we are only reacting to the phobias and prejudices that surround us. It is hard to question why young boys decide to hide their behavior when the consequence of coming out is physical beatings and psychological abuse. Those fears are hard to get rid of so carry on into our adult lives.
So why the double standards between how men and women are treated. The answer seems obvious enough. The gender movement for the last one hundred years has been fixated on women's rights only. Men's issues are ignored so men in general are still required to stick to a rigid definition of what makes a man. Any behavior that is different makes him a loser, and if the behavior is also considered deviant then forget it.
Society may tolerate our existance but they do not like us. We break all the rules of manhood so nobody wants us. The prejudices remain solidly in place but society has learned to mask them to appear to be politically correct and accommodating. Privately we are still mocked and villified.
Last edited by Sue101; 04-07-2011 at 12:59 AM.
I want to be judged for who I am not what I am. Thank you for listening.
I have been out many times all over the southeast U.S. and have not encountered any problems. I think that if you are confident and are comfortable with yourself, you will be much more apt to feel like you belong, and somehow people seem to open up to, and accept someone who is relaxed and blending in society.
Looking at some of these responses, it is very evident we CDs are our own worst enemies.
"I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
Tree beard. Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.
Speak for yourself... skip the "we" stuff.
I don't break all the rules of manhood. I break one of them -- how I dress. I'm still a man underneath, after all -- a strong, skilled, clever, useful one.
Women still want me.
And if anyone mocks me behind my back, it's for some of my "crazy" ideas for saving the world... as if I cared anyway.
Pythos is right. "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
This subject looks set to go on ad infinitum.
It's plain that there are many varied opinions, and I can sense members are passionate about it, to the point of becoming angry, when it really all depends on which side of the fence you come from. WE,-that is, people who like to dress and present in a way that represents our opposite sex (be that male or female) can often become our own worst enemies, via self analysis when not qualified to do so, as demonstrated here. In other words, dont read too much into it and lighten up.
Jannine. XX
What the heck did I do this time ??
Well any time there's a reference to it on TV or in movies, it's always a joke. People think we're funny for some reason, in a bad way.
I enjoy reading the responses, and I guess I wonder if why if you dislike the topic so much, you stopped by in the first place. In certain areas, the facts are that Cd'ers are still too out there for most. I do not see why discussing it offends anyone, and if you do not like it, do not read it. Its an open forum, and those of us who were not in the other thread should be allowed to talk about it...should we not?
I was a restaurant dressed in drab by Kingsway in Edmonton, and a man dressed as a woman walked in. He was not outlandish, and looked relatively passable. He was dressed in a way that was tasteful, and not ridiculous at all. He looked pretty good, I thought. My wife, who knows I dress, looked at me when he came in, and just winked at me and smiled. The entire place was abuzz, and people were openly mocking him. To his credit, he just sort of smiled, and did what he did, and eventually it died down somewhat. There were people who made open comments to him, despite the fact that he was obviously with his SO. (they were calling him names indicative of sexual preferences, etc.) I did not say or do much of anything, other than watch in curiosity. (I am a tough little dude in my real life, and thought that if someone got too over the top, I would be there, of course)
I was with my wife's mom and her group of friends that are really weird and religious, so I did not go over there, nor did I comment, when the church gang was even looking down their noses at him. There were people that were employed by the restaurant, and all walks of life, and all of them were essentially looking, and pointing, and acting like imbeciles, and it was totally accepted among most or all of them that this behavior was ok.
Despite being a scrappy dude, I do not go out in Edmonton, and likely never will. I give this person a worlds worth of credit for having a personality like this, and just dealing with it. The attitude in my city, is that we are not normal, nor ok. Again, a girl could walk around dressed like a dude, and most would not even notice. Yet, this person was openly mocked and villified. I think that in some places, one of the last acceptable stereo types, is hurling insults at cd'ers.
If you live somewhere that you are lucky enough to be who you are, and can dress how you want to, then you are lucky enough, imo. But don't get on those of us who came here to comment on this topic, just because you are tired of talking about it.
Unless you ask people, you don't know. Some people like us, some people dislike us, and some are neutral. Once on a bus in boy-mode I saw one of us get on & sit in the front ( I was toward the back ) - during her trip AND after she got off, no-one mocked her or made any negative comment.
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
LGBTQ PRIDE
As of Oct. 5th, go here to see my pics:http://www.flickr.com/people/fab_karen/
A Yankee Doodle T-Girl
proud of my President
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