A question to the CD's

[wanagione]

my wife did not know for years. She does now and she is excepting. She has even met my friends in drab and has gone to a conference, where she met my friends dressed. I wish I had told her sooner but I was afraid of loosing her. I guess i was wrong. I am very fortunate to have her support and love in all this. She says that I am the same person she fell in love with and that she knows this part of me will never go away. She also says that she must have seen this part of me not knowing it was trans. and fell in love wtih that part too, way back when.

[Amanda22]

She also says that she must have seen this part of me not knowing it was trans. and fell in love wtih that part too, way back when.

Your wife really does understand you. There's no separating the aspects of your core from each other. As many have said, crossdressers are who we are and there isn't anything anyone can do about it. Your wife loves you and it follows that includes the whole you.

[Rianna Humble]

Truthfully, I have pretty much given up on all men but as I told you, women are NOT an option. lol

I'm also here b/c I have fun here and I've found it to be a nice place to hang out.

I can understand why you feel that way about relationships at the moment, but would echo Brandi's sentiment that someone will come along who will love and value you for the beautiful person you really are.

I am glad you still enjoy being here and despite what some have posted who seem to be intent on projecting their own negativity onto you, you will always be welcome amongst us.

[DonniDarkness]

In the words of Jim Morrison: People are strange when your a stranger

I think the OP topic is a good one, worth many pages of discussion, for many of this community, however.... If there is distance put between your crossdressing side and your masculine side, it defines the fact that "you" (as in the whole YOU) are not fully accepted and understood. I think the problem lies in that over the course of your life this separation of 'You" and your So's non/acceptance weighs on the inner ground structure of just being friends. Your SO should always want to be apart of you no matter how strange or quarky you may be. Living separate lives and not sharing parts of your life together will eventually lead to a separation of intimacy and companionship

Because at some point you become the "stranger"

Love in its true form is unconditional....it does not come with a constraint of any kind

Looking through the glass,
-Donni-

[DAVIDA]

Hi Wsprs!
I have to say something here.
I told my wife about my dressing the night that I asked her to marry me.
She just said, "So?"
This was almost 21 years ago.
I couldn't ask someone to share my life without knowing the "entire" me.
I, like a lot of others, was uncertain about what I was and why.
I credit Jean with helping me to accept who I am and that there isn't anything wrong with me.
She has been out with me several times and I dress at home all of the time.
I don't wear my wig or do the make-up very often.
If I am home and not wearing the clothes that I prefer to wear, she will ask me if I am OK, or if there is something wrong.
I could not be more happy.
The road travels both ways, too.
I take care of her to the best of my ability.
I shop for her. Which she really doesn't like to do.
She is the best dressed teacher at her school!
I am her man at ALL times.
It makes no difference what I am wearing.
I also realize that I am one lucky CD!

I guess that all of this was just to say, things can and do work out.
The person you should be with maybe just around the corner.
You never know when you will find the one that is meant to be.

I am glad that you are an active member here.
Please continue to let us know your opinion.

[Mary Jane]

My wife only tolerates my dressing and I only dress when she is away from home. I have no problem with this and appreciate what I do have.

[mskanuchi]

My wife fully accepts my CD'ing, but I don't over do it in front of her. I'm learning more each day, especially with make-up, and let her come to me when she wants to help. I've always laid around the house in lingerie with her, watching TV and all, but I don't push the full dress on her, but she's more and more interested. It's just a normal thing in this house. It's very important to me to have her support, I support her in all her endeavors, even if I don't like them at times, so it's a trade off. I'm going to meet some CD friends this weekend for a night out, she's fine with it, she knows I want and need to have friends with this interest in my life, I'm lucky in that way, but I also was out front from the beginning.

[Pythos]

MissDonni,

You echo my sentiments exactly, but worded it soooo much better. That was really what I was tryign to get to, the idea of separating aspects of yourself from your spouse I also think does some serious damage to a relationship.

I want my lover to love me and all of my quirks. I tested myself with the GG. Aside from the Daddy thing, I dealt with and even came to accept some of her kinks, and even was willing to engage in them. If it made her happy and truly did not hurt, then who was I to change that?

I do wish the SOs that learn later did have a bit more understanding of why the deception happened. But I also highly wish the deception was no longer something to be deemed necessary.

Oh, and another notion that I wish would go away is the idea of "only in the bedroom". I'm sorry but with exclusion of some styles of clothing, only in the bedroom is just limiting and making what we do into a kink, or at worst, pure perversion.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

You all have made some very excellent comments and points. It is also helping me to come out of my shell about this a bit and realize that this was his problem not mine.

Pythos, the "deception" part doesn't really have anything to do with CD'ing. If you wait years to tell a woman something you've been keeping secret then she's always going to wonder what else you've not told her. That would be true for anything issue not just CD'ing. Best to be honest up front IMO.

Being as he most always was wearing something femme in the b/r, I came to realize that it wasn't the feel of my skin that turned him on but the material that was on it. It could have been a manniquine laying there as long as it had a nightgown on and he would have been happy probably. I'm sure that's not true but it goes back to being made feel like an object and not loved.

Nothing more sentious than the smooth feel of a man's skin to the fingertips...that was another thing I missed. But again, I never told him b/c I didn't want to be selfish and deny him the things he wanted.

To go back and retouch on the narcissist comment made by another poster, the psychological narcissist has to bolster his ego to offset his underlying feelings of inadequacies. He has to brag about himself and build himself up. They have to be able to say their job is the best, their work is the best, they have the most/best looking women available, they are snobbish and feel elite to others. I used this in the male sense and mostly narcissism is seen in males but there are female narcissists too.

[marissa_sissy]

Since about puberty, I have struggled with this. It is a tough deal, because in telling someone, as was the case with my ex wife, for a gg, it can really shatter their universe. My current wife knows, but found out after seeing pics in my computer. It was a hard time, but looking back, maybe for the best. She has a level of acceptance, and I take what I can get in that regard. I try not to push it on her too much.

Your question, it seems to me, speaks to the secrecy that most of us shroud ourselves in. The urge to crossdress for me, is the same as the urge to eat to a compulsive eater. I hide it out of defense, and in doing so, yes, I run the risk of shutting out a loved one. I do not mean to, and sometimes do not want to, however, the desire is a very hard thing to live with. I refer to it quite often, as "the curse". (as from the first time I tried on a pair of lacey and frilly panties, I was cursed with the desire to dress in them) At this point in my life, I do not do anything that my wife is not aware of, which is about the safest way to maintain the trust I have had to build since the discovery. The feelings are there. No doubt, and I have not actually dressed in more than six months, due to the birth of our son. Its been tough to not ditch, and go somewhere, dress, and do what I do, but I am presently in a hold pattern.

I feel like anything from her, is better than nothing from her.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Marissa,

You make it sound like an addiction when you compare it to compulsive eating. I think anything can become an obsession if not kept in control. That was how I saw it anyway. Too much of anything becomes harmful. They're called soft-addictions and they consist of anything we do in excess that takes away from doing more productive things. Those things include but are not limited too: texting, talking on the phone, computer/internet, watching tv, reading, playing games, sports, etc. Anything that we dwell on and think about to an extreme is not healthy.

My counter argument to him was that he had specific standards that he wanted me to live up too. He would not have gone out with me dressed in sweatpants or pajamas, why then shouldn't he have respect my boundaries. I didn't question or push his limits, I accepted them and I loved him anyway. Not that I ever wanted to go out dressed in sweats or pajamas.

I didn't care if he kept it secret or told the world, but I felt it wrong of him to protect those he loved extremely while pushing me to be open and public about it. It was hypocritical of him.

[ReineD]

Am I the only GG out there that's had this experience? Surely there are more or is it so rare to find a CD that cold and self-absorbed and I just "got lucky?"

I don't know if his issues were specifically tied to the CDing, or if he would have behaved the way he did even if he was cisgender, but with different demands. I know there are men (and women) out there who have a lot of growing to do whether or not they CD.

You sound very bitter in many of the things you've said, and this is understandable, given the recent breakup. But for what it's worth and narcissism aside, I've learned with my own major life breakup (a 30 year marriage) that as time progresses I am better able to see not only the part that my ex played in our relationship's demise, but also my own. It always takes two people to make and break relationships. To be able to see the role I played is helping me to have a healthier relationship with my current SO.



You also speak of being self-sacrificing with things like his perfume and it didn't pay off. IMO, true self-sacrifice is the giving of oneself willingly and freely with no expectation of anything in return, in which case it ceases to be a sacrifice?

[MonicaTC]

How important to you is the comfort level of your GG's? Are you so caught up in your own agenda of dressing at any cost that you would shut someone that loved you out of your life if their comfort level was not to the degree of participation that you would like, or would you just be glad that you had someone who loved and accepted you and could accept any level of participation she would/could engage in?

What if she refused to participate at all but did not hold you back or expect you to stop as long as you didn't include her? Would the fact that she loved you and accepted you be enough or do you feel you have to find that person who can fill all of your needs as a CD to be content?

Is the assumption here that all of us CD's are caught up in our own agenda of dressing at any cost? Or are we just being lumped in with a certain someone due to a personal bad experience?

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Monica,

There is no assumption. Only questions. If there was assumptions there would be periods at the end of each statement not question marks.

Reine,

Yes, I have assessed the situation and saw the things that I did wrong. I also went back and addressed that to him and took responsibility for my wrong in the situation (several times). He never acknowledged any wrong he did. The closest he ever came was to say that he never meant to make me feel second best. Matter of fact I've been accused of being the whole problem and told, by him, that he had none and he didn't need to do anything to change. That in itself is laughable as we can all find way sot self improve, learn, grow and change. I PRAY that I never come to the place in my life where I cannot look at myself and see room for improvement. I think the day that happens is the day I'll be dead.

When I was with him, I didn't see or realize I was sacrificing anything. Which, is why I allowed his negative behavior to go on so long. Even he has said that I was not demanding of him. However, one still has to get SOME needs met in a relationship for the attraction to continue. One cannot give up everything they want/need or else what is the point of being with someone? I never expected anything in return for the things I gave up but I didn't expect to get mistreated in the process either. Again, some of my needs not getting met were my fault b/c I never asked anything from him when it came to the little things. I simply didn't see how much I missed the little things until I got them again.

I don't think I am bitter. Looking back at my marriage and being able to see where I was bitter, I can say that I am nowhere close to bitter. If that were true I would be lashing out negatively at all CD's, all men and humanity in general. I wouldn't be on this forum and I wouldn't have friends who are CD's. I know how I am when I'm bitter and I don't see bitterness here at all. I can see where it would have been very easy to be so though, but bitterness and anger consumes you and I don't want anyone to have that much control over me ever again. This man I dated for 18 months, my marriage was 17 years...he didn't come close to making me feel the way I did when the marriage ended. Bitterness is anger that has been allowed to simmer for long periods of time. There have been days/times that I have been angry and lashed out, and for that I've had to apologize and take responsibility for that but this is by no means bitterness. Nothing and no one will ever be worth me ever going back to that evil nasty person I was when I was BITTER! Even I couldn't stand myself then. I am a relatively decent person now.

Of course, you cannot know that b/c you didn't know me then. Only those that did can see the big difference.

[Marissa]

Is the assumption here that all of us CD's are caught up in our own agenda of dressing at any cost? Or are we just being lumped in with a certain someone due to a personal bad experience?

You sound very bitter in many of the things you've said, and this is understandable, given the recent breakup.

**Partial Quotes**

I want to express this before Rianna or Brandy start chastising (hope I didn't select too harsh a word) comments once again.

Wsprs, even though you are not bitter and have been a part of this site to gain some understanding and support, it can be taken in mixed light depending on how things are stated. Grant it, we don't all get the words or tone right, so at times it may seem that even a response can come across negative.

And of course, there are those typos that get an avalanche started..how easy can a view be changed from support to non-support.."can" typed instead of "can't".

I will still stand on the fact that when I first met you here, I wondered the same as to 'why are you here?', taking in some of the attitude such as bitterness about cd's... And yes, my man side took you as an interesting woman that would be nice to know..but then I felt ashamed that I was one of those that you held a bitterness towards..

That was first impression..as time went on, I came to understand why you felt certain things..and have the right to. Here you are once again making that clear to all on your feelings of cd's..both positive and negative..

So I hope you find the answers or at least explainations of this intended thread..and even hope more that you continue to be a supporter of it.. even with those who post 'negative' comments (oh, wait, I'm one of those )

Marissa

Sorry, wanted to clarify..I know your bitterness is not towards cd's..just the type of person you were with who happened to be a cd. Thanks.

[Amanda22]

This is one of the most interesting threads in a long time. Beats the old, worn out, "why does society hate crossdressers" (it just does, accept it and move on), and "what color panties are you wearing" (who the hell cares?).

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Marissa,

I understand how tone and intent gets lost on the computer. I also understand that my out spokenness can be mistaken as bitter. I have always been blunt and spoke my mind and moved on about my business. Even people that know me IRL sometimes don't know how to take me and I have to clarify when I realize I've used a tone with them that they may have mistaken for anger. It is a blessing and a curse to be blunt.

I would probably be against all CD's if I hadn't had Brandi to talk me thorough some of this and help me realize that I cannot catagorize all Cd's or men by the rottenness of 1. I can completely see how some would mistake my comments as bitterness, but it's just me speaking my mind. Actually, I'm probably healthier b/c I can and do express myself. Others would hold it in and internalize it and blame themselves and I did do some of that for a time. Now, I only accept what I AM responsbile for in the relationship.

In Brandi's defense, I do believe that she comes to my defense b/c she feels somewhat protective toward me knowing this situation from behind the scenes from the beginning, and how bad it did become in the end. Brandi, is a huge (probably the biggest) reason I do not hate/judge all CD's. It is b/c I've healed to a degree that I could even come back on this site. I took several months away b/c I just wanted to forget the whole ordeal but that's not fair to myself or others who might be great friends. I am gradually getting back to normal. I realized that if I wasn't careful I was going to say things that would hurt those who are innocent and that has never been my intention. It's the concept if you fall off a horse you get up and get right back on or you will be afraid forever. I won't allow anyone to ever make me give up. Ain't happening.

This whole ordeal has shown me that I never want to go back to that place of vulnerablility again.

Also, what I have had to come to realize, and have stated before is that if you took CD'ing out of the picture, this man would still be a nasty person.

With the nature of my work, I cannot allow myself to become closed-minded about others. I also like being educated about other people, places, cultures, etc. Education is power.

[Marissa]

Wsprs, I can not say it enough of how your past relationship and realizations are so similiar to what I have gone through..and as you say, it really has nothing to do with dressing..its the person..the sacrifices and what we allowed to occur..something that as you said, won't happen again I am leary of women at this stage, but in time, I know I will heal and realize its not ALL..it was one.

And also..as you stated, Brandi knows the WHOLE story and your ordeals..so how are others to fully understand without that information..and then add as you state "outspokeness can be taken as bitter"?????? Yet, they are placed against the wall..labeled 'negative' and shot...

The topic is a good one, unfortunately, it seems no gg's who experienced the same are here or may never had been...

I commend you for not just turning your back on all of this.. but I would ask that you consider these two points I'm making in future discussions so someones views are not clouded..

[WsprsOnTheWind]

[B] Yet, they are placed against the wall..labeled 'negative' and shot... [/B[COLOR

I don't understand this comment as I don't think I've labled anyone negative or tried to "shoot" anyone here for anything they have said or expressed.

[BRANDYJ]

This is one of the most interesting threads in a long time. Beats the old, worn out, "why does society hate crossdressers" (it just does, accept it and move on), and "what color panties are you wearing" (who the hell cares?).

I can't agree more Amanda. I couild not have said it better. The whole idea of telling others what color panties I'm wearing is just gross to me. I don't even ask or tell my SO what color panties I'm wearing. And if we have to ask why society hates crossdressers, well...then we have had our head in the sand most of our lives.
sure, we might wish we were openly accepted by society, but the reality is that it is what it is. End of story.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

BrandY, (sorry been spelling your name wrong)

You bring up another good point about society's acceptance. It seems like all of the anger of society not being accepted got unleashed on me. Maybe it is b/c he felt secure knowing he could vent b/c he knew I would understand or not judge, IDK. However, I can't name the times that it seems like the anger he felt at society got projected onto me.

I'm sure glad I don't have to give account of what color mine are b/c half the time I couldn't remember.

Funny story...I was half way to work one day back when I, worked in an office and, wore dresses/skirts. It occured to me that I had forgotten to put mine on. That's just ONE of the crazy things I've done over my lifetime.

[BRANDYJ]

BrandY, (sorry been spelling your name wrong)

You bring up another good point about society's acceptance. It seems like all of the anger of society not being accepted got unleashed on me. Maybe it is b/c he felt secure knowing he could vent b/c he knew I would understand or not judge, IDK. However, I can't name the times that it seems like the anger he felt at society got projected onto me.

Wsprs, knowing what i know and the details you have shared with me and only scratched the surface in what you shared here with everyone else, I have to agree with you. He never accepted blame of fault for anything that went wrong between the two of you. You know, most crossdressers would give most anything to have a woman that not only accepted and participated with love and understanding as you did, he surely never appreciated that simple rare quality you offered him. Let me just say, that even if he was not a CD, he would not be the kind of person I could ever call a friend. His total lack of respect, compassion and understanding of anyone else's needs but his own is not the kind of person I want to know, let alone befriend.

I have to say, that as much as I admire and respect our dear ReineD, and 99.9% of the time I agree with all she has to say on most any issue she has ever commented on. But knowing you and knowing so much about your relationship with this guy from the start, I can't even begin to think you made mistakes to cause the end of the relationship. I think the only mistake you made was staying in that relationship when the red flags started popping up as early as 3-6 months of seeing him. Even those that might have negative things to say about how you handled yourself while in the relationship and even now that it is thankfully over, would never suggest you did anything wrong to cause the door being slammed in his face. If I had my way, it would have been more then the door slammed into his face. OK, call me bitter now. But it angers me to see any human being using and emotionally abusing another. He did just that with no remorse.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

I think the only mistake you made was staying in that relationship when the red flags started popping up as early as 3-6 months of seeing him.

You are right about that and we've discussed that. I take full responsibility in NOT listening to my first instincts and bailing, let alone the fact that I should have never agreed to date him in the first place. The flags came way before the 3-6 month mark. Women to him are nothing more than notches in his bedpost. I also take responsibility for trying to put it back together several times when I should have thanked God sooner that it was over and forever shut him out, as I have done.

It was emotional, mental and verbal abuse.

BTW, let me ask you all something else. How many lies would someone have to tell you before you didn't trust them any more? His comment to me when I caught him in a lie was "it was just one little lie." How many lies, in your opinions, does it take. It was as if he was saying it was just one can't you wait til they all add up before you get mad? Lets go back to the Garden of Eden, how many lies did Satan have to tell Adam and Eve before they got throw out? Umm, as I recall, just one.

That was the only ONE that I knew of for sure, at that time. There were others and I am sure many more that I never knew about.

Oh, and here is a good one. He told me he could never find a church to go to in his hometown b/c he couldn't be in church with all those people that he knew who were hypocrites. I was looking at him thinking "please go b/c there's always room for one more."

But the good thing is that someday when this guy is old and laying on his death bed, I am sure he will have found that perfect mistress to stand over him and tell him how much she wants to humiliate him. I mean when it's all said and done that's what's really important right? <Please interject sarcasm here. Snicker>

[Marissa]

I don't understand this comment as I don't think I've labled anyone negative or tried to "shoot" anyone here for anything they have said or expressed.

LOL...whspr, you are right that you did neither of those things so its understandable that I was not referring to you.. when threads gets such long responses, it can be hard to remember or catch all.. I was just trying to show that mistakes and misconceptions are made very easily and a wild fire starts.

I have said you have no blame for leaving the relationship..and did all you could.. think I have said all I can offer as I don't have a gg's perspective or an SO at this time. Good luck in discovering yourself as you disect what has occured and learn from it all..

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Marissa,

Thanks for the clarification.

Sounds as if you have had your own negative experiences but I'm glad to see you say that you know you will heal and move on again. With that attitude I'm sure you will find everything you want/need in a partner.