my job dilemma

[Sophora]

I have been working at my current job over 4 years. I am deciding to transition this year. Most of my managers don't know, however I do believe one does know. She is making my life a living hell at work.

Her and I have been at odds since she started there. However we worked out our differences and were able to talk about our personal lives. Through this I was able to gauge her opinion on TS and CD. As she made various comments while some customers came in or through questions(ie one customer came in with female pants on and she stated quite loudly "I hate when guys wear girl's clothing"). I have also had conversation on the difference in price between what guys spend on clothing/accersories and what girls do(for about an hour). We had conversations on socks and various subjects.

Everything was going good until a few weeks when I start coming out to various people and telling her that I need to find another job to able to see a therapist(a therapist that can deal with my "situation"). She started treating me different at that point. Last Friday, I started to wear make-up to work and she has gone from treating me a little different to outright hostile, all the while being the same to everyone else.

It is getting tiring, however if I say something to the gm or file a complaint I will be outing myself. I know that I am going to have to sometime however I was going to wait to after I tell my parents however it is being more apperant that either I come out and deal with it or I suck it even more and make me wish I wasn't there.

I am very happy learning everything I am learning(how to be a girl 101) however this situation is really making feel crappy at work. Any suggests?

[Frances]

I would suggest going to HR and explaining your situation before showing up at work wearing make-up. Employers need to know that you will remain productive and able to perform your tasks. Work out a plan with deadlines and foresable events. My coming to work as a full-time woman happened almost 18 months after telling HR. Transition on the job is tricky. You need to know that management/ownership are on your side. You need to work out issues like discrimination clauses and bathroom use. In most cases, work is the last place where the act of transition becomes visible. Like many others, I worked as a man while living as a woman on the weekend and week nights. Go slow would be my advise and find allies.

[boardpuppy]

Frances has the right of it. Get he rest of your life (transistion) in line, then go to the workplace last. This way you will be more confident and be able to talk to them in their language.
Alice

[Hope]

I did this completely bass-ackwards from the way everyone else does. I transitioned at work before I did anywhere else. But I work in a pretty safe place. It worked for me, but I don't know that I can suggest it for anyone else.

I was out of work, and applying for jobs. And getting 0 response to jobs I was over-qualified for. Seriously, I sent out resume's into the big black void never to be heard from again. Hundreds of them. 0 interviews. For gigs that I had training and experience in doing. It is a tough job market right now. And it is not like there was some huge red mark on my resume - it all added up. (Though I learned recently that when you google my legal name and my former job title the first 200 links go to some crazy person who wants to kill the president - so I am guessing there was a lot of confusion and non-risk taking going on) And these resumes were going out without a hint of trans anything in them. Still 0 interviews.

Then I saw an ad for my current gig - at the cosmetics counters at a department store. I sent in my resume, and identified my self as trans in my cover letter ('cause how else do you expect to explain why Mr. Guy is an ideal candidate for the cosmetics counter?) and thought "Well I will never hear from them..." 2 days later I had my first interview in 6 months. I wore a guys suit, eye-make-up and dangly earrings to the interview, and was strait up with the interviewer (my future manager) that I am trans and would be transitioning at some point.

A week later, my manager called to offer me the gig. It is a gig that is WAY below what I am used to in terms of pay and responsibility - but that is a different story for another time. I am honestly happy to have it.

At first, my manager LOVED me. And why wouldn't she? I don't cause drama with the other girls, I get along with everyone, I am always punctual, and my sales numbers are typically double my sales goal. What is not to love? My manager was really awesome too - she helped me find a foundation that worked, she encouraged me to dress, she set up an awesome meeting with our HR person. All was great. Until I did show up in a dress.

Once I really did start physical, visual, obvious transition - my manager's opinion changed dramatically. My therapist thinks I make her feel frumpy (and she is frumpy) and that it is hard to admit that a "guy" looks better as a woman than you do. Which I can appreciate... but - come-on! This isn't cool.

Since I have been more open, my manager has gone from regularly rewarding me to denying me several promotion opportunities, blatantly making up complaints about me, and on one occasion telling me that "I'm not going to promote you because you scare women." Which is BS - and my sales number s prove it - but it doesn't matter.

So I am back to sending out resumes. Every one of them identifies me as trans. Especially because I haven't changed my name yet - and well, it would be hard to explain why my legal name is a boy name. And I have had several interviews in the last 2 months. No new gig yet, but several interviews. Something will shake loose.

My point in all of this is this:

Don't think you can't get a gig as a trans woman. You totally can. AND People's opinions can change 180 degrees over night. Don't listen to what your manager says - watch what she does. That will give you the biggest clue about what she really thinks.

Oh - and like all the other girls have said - go and talk to HR before you get any more obvious. Giving them a heads up before problems arise (so they can avoid them al together) is easier for you (and them) than having to work in crisis mode to fix something that has gone wrong.

[Jay Cee]

I'll add one thing, Sophora - write down every conversation, comment, and any other interaction between you and this person (or anyone else at work who may give you grief). This is important data to have, should you need to defend yourself to management or HR. Or if it should ever become a court case.

[Sophora]

Oh - and like all the other girls have said - go and talk to HR before you get any more obvious. Giving them a heads up before problems arise (so they can avoid them al together) is easier for you (and them) than having to work in crisis mode to fix something that has gone wrong.

I would like to apologize first if I had done something wrong. I kind of feel that I did something wrong however I guess I got overzealous on this whole living as women thing. The truth is I am more confident and comfortable at work wearing the make-up and everything. Also even if I didn't the manager giving me trouble lives near me and if I go out in female clothing. bam she finds out right then so I have no doubt she seen me around wearing the clothing and make-up.

OK now for what I quoted. The only problem with going to the HR people is that I can contact them at all. I work in fast food so if I have to talk to someone it will have to be with the GM of the store. Should I talk to her and explain to her what is going on? I know I have to something.

[JenniferZ2009]

When I came out at work I was working as a contractor through a national hiring agency. I spoke to my district manager and requested the contact info for HR. They asked me what it was about and I told them it was about a personal issue. They gave me his phone # and email and I was able to get in contact and start the ball rolling. HR was in Chicago and I'm in Seattle.

I would ask you GM for HR's contact info and go from there. You have to be careful how you come out at work. To be brutally honest alot of what we all have said (I apologize if I am speaking about anyone out of context) about not doing anything before speaking to HR is that you do not want to give them any "legal" reason to fire you. Some states and cities have laws against firing people for being trans. But if the managers can bring up dirt from before you spoke with HR then they have more leeway to get ride of you. They can say things like you have been a growing disturbance and what not.

I have heard alot of different opinions about the next thing and for me this is my opinion. It is better to tranition at work all at once. One quick here I am, this is me, I am a female. If you go slow and only change an article of clothing every so often then people will look at you more as a confused crossdresser than a transwoman. You need to sever the connection they have in their heads to you presenting as male. Well, that is my opinion.

Best of Luck

[Teri Jean]

Everyone has given great advice and yes speak to HR. The other side is, there will always be those who are jerks and it doesn't matter if they wear pants or skirts. HR will deal with them so don't listen to them anymore than you can. When the time is right for you, don't look back and hold your head high.

Teri

[JenniferZ2009]

Sounds like you have a good plan.

[Sophora]

Thank you everyone. I will get the number for HR tomorrow. What do I tell them?

I never felt more comfy and happy then I do right now(being a female). I guess I do get a little ahead of myself. I would love to full time as a women but then stuff like this creeps up and reminds that I really do to take it slow.

[Jorja]

Thank you everyone. I will get the number for HR tomorrow. What do I tell them?

I never felt more comfy and happy then I do right now(being a female). I guess I do get a little ahead of myself. I would love to full time as a women but then stuff like this creeps up and reminds that I really do to take it slow.

There were a couple of good letters to HR that were posted here some time back. I'll try to see if I can locate them.

[Jorja]

There were a couple of good letters to HR that were posted here some time back. I'll try to see if I can locate them.

As usual, I can't find any of them.

[Sophora]

I contacted my hr person today however I got her voice mail. I left a message and am now waiting to be called back.

However the strangest thing happened. My GM wanted to know why I wanted the number. I told her that it was personal however she wanted to be kept "in the loop," as she didn't want to be taken totally by surprise by this. So we went into the employee room and I told her. She was supportive. She never dealt with this before however she asked some questions. I answered her truthfully. She assured me that I still on a job. She wanted to know on what to tell the crew and what impact it would have the customers. I told her not to worry about what to the crew until I talked to the HR person. She then brought up Cher's son(Chaz?). She watched the Oprah with him on it.

So now I am just waiting on the HR person contacting me back to see where I go from here. I just wanted to update everyone.

[Angel.Marie76]

I contacted my hr person today however I got her voice mail. I left a message and am now waiting to be called back.

... She then brought up Cher's son(Chaz?). She watched the Oprah with him on it.....

So now I am just waiting on the HR person contacting me back to see where I go from here. I just wanted to update everyone.

Sophora,
I am happy to hear you're going this route. As Frances noted in the beginning, you have to be a strong member of your workforce, as well as continue to put on that show for your managers while or when thinking about transitioning on the job. Indeed they need to see you as a hard worker and as little of a distraction as possible on the job WHILE maintaining their requirements to protect your civil rights while on the job.

Having the manager wanting to be 'kept in the loop' is a hard issue to deal with. Technically it's out of the box already, so there's no need for second guessing. NOW you need to make sure your work is flawless, your attitude is smooth and under control, and that you're ABSOLUTELY serious about transitioning. You noted about wanting to start seeing a therapist soon - however you're already talking about transitioning on the job? I don't mean to discredit any other's stories by any means, but 'cart before the horse' seems to pop into my mind here.

I'm sure many people transition without the help / assistance / guidance of therapists. I don't know, personally, if I know any around my area that may or may not be at this time. I can tell you that having a good councilor familiar with GID-related content could be indispensable at times with HR / work issues. I agree that planning a coming-out strategy with your HR departments is KEY to success in the workplace. Managers HATE being surprised... however, HR departments are supposed to be liaisons for this sort of thing. You tell your HR dept. FIRST generally, THEN tell your immediate bosses, etc.. so that you have the protection of the HR department first.

Lastly, If you've already had a hostile boss to deal with, and coming out to them has eased tension (yet your statements about this manager being superficially judgmental of others), I would still be very cautious of the steps you take further, and coordinate with HR as much as they're willing to.

Best wishes and luck!

~Angel

[Melody Moore]

Someone posted this here: U.S. Office of Personnel Management Issues Guidance on Transgender Employees

Main Article: U.S. Office of Personnel Management Issues Guidance on Transgender Employees

See the Guidelines here: http://www.opm.gov/diversity/Transgender/Guidance.asp which might help.
But I also agree with a lot of the advice you have just been given. Work hard & stay on the ball and
things should be fine.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

how great is chaz bono's leadership? he has had an incredibly positive impact....so many times i've heard "oh, like chaz bono!" when people have talked about transsexuals..and it's never in a negative way..

[Sophora]

I just got done talking with my HR representative. and oh my god such a very nice person. She told me to talk to her if any issues(ie harrassment) come up. She also let me know me that the place where I work has a zero tolerance harassment policy.

She said I can dress like a girl as long as meets company policy(ie black slacks, black skid resistant shoes, belt) and conservative. She also told me to be proud and confident of who I am.

Angel- As soon as get another job, I will starting to see a therapist and finish my transitioning. Yes I am super-serious about this. However when I think of transitioning I think of the entire process and not everything that happens after seeing the the therapist. So stuff like wearing the clothes, makeup, purses to me are the basic building blocks of the process, so for me to happy(I don't need to see a therapist about this) I would love to be wearing what is comfy for me. Girl's clothes are more comfy to me. I had 31 years of being miserable(today is my 32nd birthday), now it is time for me to be happy(and yes even at work).

Also, you need to know is that I will be going out in female's clothing(walking around, going to the store, etc) and while I do drive to go to work. A lot of my coworkers live in the same town so if they see walking around in a skirt or dress, they will talk to others(gossip spreads fast in my store). and since I refuse to be confided to wear what is comfortable in my house, and not out. I think it is safe to say that if I have the dialogue opened to my GM and HR people(only 2 out of 4 who at work knows. The one manager I think knows but am not sure at this moment..the other 2 are an ex-girlfriend whom I told while we were dating that I wanted to a girl and a coworker that has been helping me with makeup) would be great idea especially if my GM(whom is the only one in the store that can fire people and hates doing it) and the HR people(for obvious reasons) knew before it turns into a problem.

I may be wrong. I seen a CD/TS in my drive-thru last night and they look scared to be seen, I don't want that be like that. I lived in fear before(being pagan in a really religious christian neighborhood does that) and I refuse to live in fear now and especially for something that is so comfy.

Sorry for my rambling. I just wanted to share that I talked with the HR person and I am really excited.

[Philipa Jane]

Happy birthday Sophora.
Make the wish and I hope it come true for you
PJ

[mariannecd]

Well done on all the leaps you are making. Remember that there are tons of people out there who will disapprove and HR's job is to protect all employees from harassment and discrimination. Customers are another matter....!! Transitioning may well be tricky and it will have ups and downs, but remember that the end of the journey is worth it...! Make sure that a proper announcement about your transition is relayed to the team at the appropriate moment and that the GM is totally clear she supports you - she must be specific about this so that any actions by co-workers can be judged accordingly. Good luck - and stay excited x

[Angel.Marie76]

I just got done talking with my HR representative. and oh my god such a very nice person. She told me to talk to her if any issues(ie harrassment) come up. She also let me know me that the place where I work has a zero tolerance harassment policy.

She said I can dress like a girl as long as meets company policy(ie black slacks, black skid resistant shoes, belt) and conservative. She also told me to be proud and confident of who I am.

Sounds like your HR department person has a good head on their shoulders. Very good to hear. I just had a meeting with my HR folks today, catching up on some morale issues, team dynamics, and overall thoughts and opinions.. SOMEtimes HR folks can be worth their salary. I am leery at times, with the whole management vs. employee game, however a good HR person will hopefully always give it to you straight.

Angel- As soon as get another job, I will starting to see a therapist and finish my transitioning. Yes I am super-serious about this. However when I think of transitioning I think of the entire process and not everything that happens after seeing the the therapist..... now it is time for me to be happy(and yes even at work)....

As I said, to each their own, and every journey is unique. I was merely suggesting a councilor for assistance with business matters and having a good handle on approach. Certainly any person, with enough research and prep, can handle work-related transition issues themselves. Heck, I'm negotiating with a new employer right now, and just in conversation regarding a background check, I spoke with them over the phone, and clarified that, while not necessarily finding a criminal history, if they do a gender typing on my SS.. it will be incorrect. My potential boss's response? 'Oh... is that all? I wouldn't worry about that..' !!! No therapist needed, of course.

Also, you need to know is that I will be going out in female's clothing(walking around, going to the store, etc) and while I do drive to go to work. ....... The one manager I think knows but am not sure at this moment..the other 2 are an ex-girlfriend whom I told while we were dating that I wanted to a girl and a coworker that has been helping me with makeup) would be great idea especially if my GM(whom is the only one in the store that can fire people and hates doing it) and the HR people(for obvious reasons) knew before it turns into a problem.

Being out near full time when dancing around your employment situation can get a little dicey at times. I remember bumping into several coworkers, for the company I just transitioned with, at places like the grocery store, hair salon.. mall.. you name it.. At some point it's not a secret anymore. Having HR prepared with a response matrix will help them and you work through the finer details with greater ease. If it becomes rumor mill fodder, at least you've let them know and have an active plan to transition positively and appropriately.. if some of the chatter makes it to HR's door, at least they'll have good things to say about you.

I might suggest an information exchange with the HR folks.. talking about the things you'd like them to relay to the general population, etc.

[arbon]

how great is chaz bono's leadership? he has had an incredibly positive impact....so many times i've heard "oh, like chaz bono!" when people have talked about transsexuals..and it's never in a negative way..

I've been hearing a lot of positive comments from non trans people which has been interesting. I think he has helped open a lot of peoples minds a little.


Sophora - really happy to hear things have gone so well with the HR person Think it is awesome.

[Melody Moore]

I am also pleased that you have overcome such a huge hurdle as you just faced up to here, Your
courage is tremendous & will really benefit you the most in your journey. Coming out is a big step
& it's hard even if you are a strong person. So it's certainly not for the faint-hearted or weak who
never take the step & stay in the closet because they are too afraid to face their fears like you
just have. So as far as I am concerned you are now part of a very special group of people in this
community who will always be a family & be here for you. I hope those struggling to find themselves
can also one day follow your type of example & have this much affirmation in the start their journeys.

So well done!

[Sophora]

I might suggest an information exchange with the HR folks.. talking about the things you'd like them to relay to the general population, etc.

This is how awesome my HR person was. I asked her(because my GM wanted to know) what I should my coworkers. She said point blank, "You don't have to tell them anything. If they ask just tell you can't discuss it. After all it is really none of their business. They are here to work not gossip."

Did I mention that she was a former GM for the company. Although I think if I am asked I will tell them. After all, I have nothing to hide anymore. Although later today will be the first time I go out in public in a skirt. so very nervous and yet very excited(legs shaved...check. lol)

And Melody thank you. I am not trying to courageous or anything. I am just trying to happy and comfy. If I can accomplish that, I don't care what others think(I had to turn down a roommate situation recently because the person was so close-minded about transgender females...her words "but since you are a guy and I have a son and we are christian I don't want you around my son." My first bigoted person yay!).