Need a Sign

[CaptLex]

I went out last night to a lesbian bar (even though I'm straight). Makes no difference to me, they had good beer, good music and friendly conversationalists, so I had a nice time. While I was there three girls (MtFs) came in and joined the fun.

I knew they were dressed, but I realized they would have no idea that I am a FtM who was also dressed. I'm sure they thought I was also lesbian (not that there's anything wrong with that). It occurred to me then that maybe we should have a symbol, like the gay pink triangle or rainbow flag that we can wear to identify ourselves to other CDs.

Also, I thought about saying something to them to identify myself as a crossdresser, but didn't even know how to approach the subject. Any thoughts on this?

[Lauren_T]

There's been some discussion, in spells, about this very thing - some like a li'l seahorse, some are partial to some kind of symbolic Möbius strip, most are silent as the tomb on the subject - which is OK, mind, but I have noticed that those who are thinking and making their views known about this are by-and-large those who are out of the closet and who make real-world outings - since it's then that the need for an identifying badge of some sort occurs.

I say that to remind those who haven't yet stepped out, that they should start thinking about it now - and sharing your views - because, eventually, you will see, when you do step out, just why a common identifier would be a boon to CD sisterhood & solidarity & even greater understanding / acceptance by the other gender-variant minorities...

[MarinaTwelve200]

Whatever the symbol was, it would have to signify if one is a crossdresser who sees the female self as "one's real self" or sees his MALE self as "ones real self" (an is in an escapist mode)

About 80% the CDs are usually an even mix of One or the other (I'd say 40/40 percent wise) (the other 20% being bi and fetish types) Since these are all very different types, a simple "CD" indicator would be useless---save for possibly indicating that one was homosexual or not.

Some or you will not agree with my percentage background---but thats the way i see it anyway. Just because a group of people share one thing in common (wearing the clothing of the opposite biosex), Putting them under one "Symbol" makes as much sense as saying they are all the same because they have noses.

I would propose something that Symbolized the person is CD And on the INSIDE of it, A male or female symbol that designated their "psycological gender"
----An example might be a round C (for crossdresser) with a male or female symbol inside of it.----Thus you could tell if the person considered him self really "male" and was just only escaping into fem mode, or considered themselves "really female" inside.
-----That would cover 80 percent of the cases, and is quite socially important, as no "male" CDer wants to be hit on by male CDophiles, while fem CDers would weclome the attention. etc. etc.

Fetish types, bi's and other CD types would have their own symbol inside the universal "C" CD symbol----Just an idea that might make a symbol a practical proposition.

[Ellaine]

Hi Marina...

Hmmmm Why stop there? If you really don't want to waste time investing socially with others of differents interest groups, then more must be done. How about a little engine for the railway enthusiasts, and a motorbike, or maybe a palete for arty types, a spoon for those that like to cook,....yea, lets make the badge a big one like a DVD..if we can get enough info on there, maybe we dont have to talk at all. Just find the right symbols and say hey babe...You've pulled!

Hugs Ell

[urban gypsy]

I don't usually post a negative but on this I feel I have to, most of us who go out dressed are fairly easy to spot until we get things right in the way that we look. But also most who do pass fairly well as girls do so but wish to keep it a secret to a certain degree, as to wearing a badge is advertising it to the whole world what is what most of us are trying to avoid.
there that my 2 pennies worth.

[Natalie x]

Joanna has it right. There was a thread recently, exploring the possibilities for such a symbol, and I posted my 2 penceworth to the debate of which symbol was prefered. But, to be blunt, there's no need for one. If we dress to pass, that means we don't want to be made, by anyone. If we are not bothered about passing, we will be easy to spot as a CD.

[Lauren_T]

Joanna has it right. There was a thread recently, exploring the possibilities for such a symbol, and I posted my 2 penceworth to the debate of which symbol was prefered. But, to be blunt, there's no need for one. If we dress to pass, that means we don't want to be made, by anyone. If we are not bothered about passing, we will be easy to spot as a CD.

Natalie, I so often agree with you, but here I feel you may be just a tad guilty of projecting, on this particular point...

Why do I say that? Well, for one, I myself would be an exception to what you say, and I know there must be others... When out and about, I would not only not mind being identified as CD, but would, all other things being equal, actually like for that to happen...

[MarinaTwelve200]

I don't usually post a negative but on this I feel I have to, most of us who go out dressed are fairly easy to spot until we get things right in the way that we look. But also most who do pass fairly well as girls do so but wish to keep it a secret to a certain degree, as to wearing a badge is advertising it to the whole world what is what most of us are trying to avoid.
there that my 2 pennies worth.

I think the original poster meant a badge for certian "safe" environments , like gay clubs, where a variety of types, gay and otherwise, would get together, and where certian primary types could be distinguished from one another---if they so desired to be.

No, it wouldnt be a good idea to wear a badge in public, where one is trying to 'hide" or blend in, but in situations where everybody knows anyway, and are interested in meeting compatible types, it wouldnt hurt to advertise.

[Lauren_T]

Afterthought / followup:

Consider - if you don't want to be ID'd, then don't wear the thing... after all, its only wearers would be those who, for whatever reason, want to be read, am I right?

[Missy]

for some a sign would bring some unwanted atention to us some like the feeling of going out in fem and not bring found out that is a trill in itself. for those who need a sign are the lable needing people.

sorry if this offends some

Missy

[Lauren_T]

for some a sign would bring some unwanted atention to us some like the feeling of going out in fem and not bring found out that is a trill in itself. for those who need a sign are the lable needing people.

sorry if this offends some

Missy

No, actually, it couldn't 'bring unwanted attention' - since anyone who doesn't want that attention isn't going to wear it.

And those who want a 'sign' don't necessarily 'need labels' - they want strangers who share their interest - that is, other CDs - to be know them to be CDs themselves, so they can connect. A completely normal human thing to do...

For those who don't believe in 'labels,' you could try this: in your home, take everything you have in a can (or tin, for you Brits... ) and remove all the labels and put them back on the shelf.

Next time you're feeling like a nice bowl of tomato soup, don't be surprised if you wind up eating rat poison.

Labels are necessary to existence.

[urban gypsy]

If the badge was only for occassions as stated by marina then i feel that would be ok but what kind of signal would it really give out.

[Phoebe Reece]

Our local Tri-Ess chapter (Sigma Epsilon) has name tags made for members. Mostly they are worn in the meeting suite so that new members or ones we haven't seen in awhile can remember names better. Many of us just keep them on when we go out on our group functions (restaurants, shopping, etc.) during that weekend. Keeping mine on has led to some interesting encounters. Most people seem to either think I am attending some kind of convention or else work in or near the establishment I happen to be in at the time. It has opened up some interesting conversations with strangers that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.

[CaptLex]

I think the original poster meant a badge for certian "safe" environments , like gay clubs, where a variety of types, gay and otherwise, would get together, and where certian primary types could be distinguished from one another---if they so desired to be.

No, it wouldnt be a good idea to wear a badge in public, where one is trying to 'hide" or blend in, but in situations where everybody knows anyway, and are interested in meeting compatible types, it wouldnt hurt to advertise.

Wow, I really didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, but then I'm new to all this and now I realize it's been discussed (and generally rejected, it seems) before.

Marina is correct that it was not my intention to want anyone to be outed, I just wanted to feel like I'm part of the community and to have others identify me as "family". While it may be easier to spot some MtFs as such, anyone who sees me will invariably identify me as a gay woman (which would be fine if I were one) and not as a straight FtM.

Anyway, I'll drop it now. Hope I didn't cause too much trouble.

Lexi

P.S. But I do like the idea of a seahorse, Lauren - a blue one!

[ronna]

Way cool, Lex!
I didn't know there was any such thing as a lesbian bar.
I have always wanted to be a lesbian (a lipstick lesbian, that is).

Where I live it's only gay bars and I'm not into guys unless they're lesbians like me.

Does that make sense?

[Janet_a]

Please pardon my ignorance here but I thought you already had a sign.

Let me explain a couple of months ago I discovered my partner had been attending a club for crossdressers , he still doesn't know i know about this.
I was unsure how to approach him over this or what it involved so I discussed it with a couple of close friends who I know I can trust.
One of them suggest I wore a trans awareness badge which I'd never heard of and she told me it is similar to the chinese yin yang symbol but with a third piece that was multi coloured. (I have seen someone using this as their avatar) apparantly the use of this symbol was discussed on this morning about 3 months ago to identify a third sex.
My other friend suggested using the internet which is how I found this forum and after reading many post I think I now have a basic understanding.
I have been waiting until something covering this subject comes on tv so I can let him know I am not against it even though I do have some reservations. I am considering asking him to take me to see the film kinky boots to break the ice, however I'm wandering of the main topic now the point I was trying to raise was that if this is beleived to be the symbol of you trans folk and it is being passed through the grapevine so to speak then maybe you should just accept it and promote it among yourselves.

janet.
born female

[Sweet Jeanette]

I went out last night to a lesbian bar (even though I'm straight). Makes no difference to me, they had good beer, good music and friendly conversationalists, so I had a nice time. While I was there three girls (MtFs) came in and joined the fun.

I knew they were dressed, but I realized they would have no idea that I am a FtM who was also dressed. I'm sure they thought I was also lesbian (not that there's anything wrong with that). It occurred to me then that maybe we should have a symbol, like the gay pink triangle or rainbow flag that we can wear to identify ourselves to other CDs.

Also, I thought about saying something to them to identify myself as a crossdresser, but didn't even know how to approach the subject. Any thoughts on this?

Some time ago, we had a symbol poll on this board, and it went on for three weeks. It was conclusive, but after it was closed, everybody sort of : picked their own! ---I will try to look it up, and get back to all of you.

[Sweet Jeanette]

I have looked it up and it is called -- "Symbol, Sudden Death". --- Overwelmingly, everybody voted for the ---Mobius strip". ---- I personally liked the Butterfly and the ladybug, but they didn't even place! --- Look it up, if you want!

[Fallen Angel]

I could see wearing the sybols if there was some kind of sexual revalution going on like in the sixties or seventies but today we have such a melting pot of people out there with there own sexual idenities we dont need them. Im always out most of the time in gay comunities thats my safe zone and wether it be female or male belive it or not know there own kind. in those clubs im considered a divia as most of the other crossdressers. We are the break between both sides wether its m-t-f ot f-t-m they know who we are and respect that! there are a few amoung use who are bi as well and dont hide what they are and shouldnt have to either as the old song says sighns sighns every where theres sighns xxxxxx

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Hi Janet,

Let me say welcome and commend you for taking the time to find out more about your husband's crossdressing. It sounds like you're facing the same sort of "coming out" problem we face, just in reverse.

To be honest, I've been around a bit and that's the first I've heard of that particular symbol for trans awareness, so while that group may have adopted it, it's not something that's widely recognized. BTW, the mostly-used symbol is this (although the yin-yang symbol isn't usually part of it):

Anyway, like we tell CDs who are thinking about coming out to their SO, rather than dropping hints, you're probably far better off talking to him directly. (The main thing to be prepared for is he's likely to be embarassed initially.) Any number of us would be happy to talk with you about this if you'd like.

[JoAnnDallas]

I have been reading this post and similar ones and I think I may have come up with a solution. What about a golf shirt that has in script the letters TG in PINK. I would think that most people would assume that it was the person's initials, but to us it would call out "TG".

JoAnn

[sue_donim]

Hi Janet

go and see the film I think once you break the ice he may be a bit embarrassed but he'll soon realise just how lucky he is. You have already found this forum tell your husband about it as well because there may be things he still hasn't come to terms with yet.

I vaugly recall hearing something on morning television about a third sex, and I think this is the symbol you are refering to.



Hugs
Sue_donim

[CaptLex]

I have looked it up and it is called -- "Symbol, Sudden Death". --- Overwelmingly, everybody voted for the ---Mobius strip". ---- I personally liked the Butterfly and the ladybug, but they didn't even place! --- Look it up, if you want!

Thanks for the info, Jeanette. I read the whole post and even learned what a Mobius strip is. I also looked online for other info regarding crossdressing symbols, and didn't really find anything, but I found stuff on transgender symbols, which I thought was interesting. As some consider crossdressers to be part of the transgender community, I wondered if any of those symbols might be of interest to others here. Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to link the pictures, so I hope the descriptions are clear:

1. The first one is about the transgendered pride flag which has blue and pink strips with a purple transgender symbol in the upper left corner (a linked male and female symbol). Here's the explanation:

[SIZE="1"]Trangender Pride Flag - The transgender pride flag was designed and copyrighted in 1999. It is the newest of the pride flags to be created covering overdue representation of the T in GLBT by Captain John. It encompasses all aspects of transsexual and transgender identities, blue or male and pink for female. The lavender colored gender symbol can be interpreted as FtM (Female to Male)/MtF (Male to Female)/or Intersexed/Both/Shifting and other types of gender variation.[/SIZE]


2. The second one is the zodiac sign for Mercury, and here is the explanation for that one:

[SIZE="1"]The astrological sign of Mercury is traditionally the symbol of transgendered people. In Greek mythology, Hermes (the Greek version of the Roman god Mercury) and Aphrodite (the goddess of love) had a child named Hermaphroditus. That child possessed both male and female sexual organs, hence the term hermaphrodite. Also, rituals associated with the worship of Aphrodite are believed to have been highly sexual, involving castration, transvestism, and homosexual relations.

In the symbol itself, the crescent moon at the top is supposed to represent the masculine, and the cross at the bottom represents the feminine. The ring represents the individual, with the male and the female balanced at either side.[/SIZE]


3. The last one is the IFGE Logo, a dark pink/lavender triangle with a transgender symbol inside, and here is what that one says:

[SIZE="1"]Inspired by the gender symbols, the IFGE Logo is another symbol for transgendered peoples. The International Foundation for Gender Education is an educational and charitable organization addressing crossdressing and transgender issues. One of the organizations logos, this symbol combines the lavender color and the pink triangle shape with a ring denoting various genders all fused into one. This is a copyrighted symbol, but you can use it for non-commercial purposes to denote transgendered or gender-supportive individuals.[/SIZE]

Anyway, I realize they're not really for crossdressers, but I thought it was a start. Thanks to all who responded here. I guess some people are interested in a symbol and some aren't. The Mobius strip seems like a cool idea since it may be that it won't be confused with anything else (someone wearing a ladybug or a seahorse may not realize that they're wearing something that symbolizes something to someone else), but I wonder if anyone will really wear it so that the idea really takes off.

[Wendy me]

well while waiteing on that mobius thingy i got the sea horsey ....

[Sweet Jeanette]

I was the one pushing the Butterfly and the Lady bug! ----Well, I didn't wait either. --- I went to the Tatoo parlor that I frequent, and layed on the table, ---face down, and got a ladybug on one cheek, and a butterfly on the other cheek! --- The place that they will be "Most" noticed!!! ----Heh-heh!