Lying

[Babeba]

Okay. That makes sense. How do you feel about him keeping it a secret, though? Do you approve, or would you rather he was open about it?

I am extremely happy with him not keeping it a secret from ME. I love it that our relationship is a partnership, where we are equally open with each other as much as possible and try to be on the same page with each other. There is no other relationship in life quite like that of a lover, a spouse, or a serious partner: you don't get to choose your parents, friends or roomates may be close and trusted but they're not as intimate, children have a different dynamic with their parents... but if your partner isn't someone you can totally be yourself with, do you really want that partner? If you don't want to let them in on the deep dark secrets that are current and important in your life, are they really your partner? If I were ever hit by a bus and Crystal moved on to a new partner she felt she could be serious with, I would be super disappointed (and incredibly surprised) if they didn't have 'the talk' quite early on.

My boyfriend has had some female stirrings in his life from the time he was very very small, and started dressing as a teenager - he's had a girly side to him since before I was born. I understand that for him, it's something very private which he doesn't share often. I'm not out to change that, it's a part of who he is. Most people in his life simply aren't ever going to be affected by his wearing women's clothing occasionally, or be in a position where they may feel like they ought to know each and every detail of his life and so that's fine for them to not know. It may also be fine if more people DID know, but that's really Crystal's call and not mine. After all, I haven't been living in his skin for the past umpteen years, so I really DON'T know what it's like to have to tell such a closely kept secret.

[shesadvl]

I'm happy to be truthful to people who don't over react.

If you are truthful,... why should one over react, you are upfront, thats kool....and good on you if you are up front and truthful....
if someone reacts then they are not getting the clear picture. Its all in how you communicate,that truth.....

I am extremely happy with him not keeping it a secret from ME. I love it that our relationship is a partnership, where we are equally open with each other as much as possible and try to be on the same page with each other. There is no other relationship in life quite like that of a lover, a spouse, or a serious partner:

thats a prime example of what i mean. I had all that even before i got into my relationship. Its awesome and acceptance wasnt even an issue.... i didnt even flinch....

as for what sophie86 said about keeping the secret, if you are cding or transgendered and you are not out,.. then thats your wish/choice you made, to keep that from public if thats your call, but not to keep it from your partner or wife. definitely NOT

[gingerli]

REPLY TO LORILEAH POST #65

You're joking...............right?
Where exactly do you live, anyway?
It's obviously NOT the Denver in Colorado.
And how would I know this?
I read within the last month about a guy who was KILLED in one of that Denver's 'burbs because he was out and about dressed in female clothing and acting like a woman! By a guy who mistook him for an easy off the street booty call.

Not only that, but nearly every city and town in the U.S. (existing since before the 1970's) has on its books ordinances outlawing female impersonation. True...few, if any, of the laws are enforced anymore, but none have ever been struck from the laws or invalidated, either. Any man dressed in female clothing could, in fact, be arrested and sent to jail for impersonation, especially since the laws invariably leave it up to police officers to define the behavior situationally.

Quote: "No one said you were angry bitter or little." Go back and read reply #9 by momarie........musta been a blonde moment on your part.

Your comments about lying to save a life? Go ask the guy in the Denver suburb.....Oh wait, he's dead!

You state that Sophie "took time from her life." Yes, he did.....at the same time SHE was taking time from his life....it's a sharing thing. You obviously can't understand!

Never let facts.....interfere with the thought processes, either!

[NicoleScott]

AS for the quiting of the CDing how naive can some of you be..... it never goes away so what better could you have then,.. a partner or wife who understands right from the get go of who you are .....

Here's the answer: VERY naive. At a very young age, there was some unknown force that compelled us to try on some feminine item when given the opportunity. We liked it, and it continued, and grew stronger. When the hormones kicked in during the teen years, it got both more compelling and confusing. In a time before internet, men wearing earrings, or more socially accepted sex- and gender-crossing behaviors, we were alone with our drive to crossdress, as outing ourselves would have most certainly led to ridicule, punishment, or even treatment. Many of us grew up totally alone with our crossdressing, with the only source of information about it found in psychology books. Many, many of us thought (we didn't know better) that when we married, all that desire to crossdress would be directed to normal sexual relationship with the bride. We really, HONESTLY, thought it would go away, and therefore no need to tell. Seriously, don't you know that this is a very common thing, especially among the older (pre-information age) cd's? Who's being naive?
And, most all of us who had this experience agree that, knowing what we know now, it doesn't go away as we thought it would, and if we had it to over again, would reveal the crossdressing before marrying. But we were naive and didn't reveal. It was not lying, as we did not intend to deceive.

[Presh GG]

Ok , So all being fair, why , when you Did realise it wasn't going away ... or when it started getting stronger and stonger with more and more thoughts and desires , Why not THEN tell?

" Honey, I've always felt like this, But now I feel like this ?" Let me tell you what I'm going thru and what I'm thinking..."

This is what the GGs are talking about. OK so at 22 yrs, or 25 years you didn't know what was going on in your bodys or minds , but clearly at 30 ? When going out or comeing out [ to everybody BUT your spouse ] was a desire ?

Need coffee...
Presh GG

[GingerLeigh]

Saying something to "THE ONE" about your crossdressing before you commit to marriage looks good on paper, but I'm willing to bet it ends in disaster most of the time. Sure there will be that 0-5% that will be accepting, if you're lucky enough to find her but I bet most will push you away like you've got leprosy and they are likely to warn others of your "perversion". Besides, like many posters here that are from my generation say it, I thought it would go away or lessen once we had a steady relationship/got older. It was something I did, not something I was. Now I know I was wrong. It only got stronger and more involved. Unfortunately, that knowledge is too little too late. I'm in a relationship now, with children. I can't stop being what I am, but I must protect my family from the truth so a secret it must stay. It sucks, but that's my lot in life. The security of my marriage/relationship, the opinions of my children and their peers mean more to me than a clear conscience.

Lying is bad if it is self serving and malicious. My lie is neither. I hate lying, but this is my truth. Shame on me? Hate me for being a liar? Whatever. If you are in an accepting relationship where there is that kind of wiggle room for the real truth, good for you. I'm happy for you and maybe even a little envious. I'm willing to bet that for the majority of us this is not the case. To try to convince anyone here that revealing all is the best thing is both fool hearty and dangerous. We are all anonymous here, how can any of us know what's best for our families if we don't even know our real names?

Right or wrong, my decision doesn't mean I have no conscience nor does it make me a monster. I'm just a protective father and husband that thinks he's doing the right thing. If I get caught, well then I'll have to play those cards if and when it happens. I'm praying it never does, though I think she suspects anyway.


Ginger

[kendra_gurl]

Anthony Weiner Example

you all have seen the story by now.

He in what he thought was a private thing was doing something he did not intend to become public.

He was not Lying he was Secretly doing something he knew he should not do.

When it became public he started Lying and trying to cover it up. A very big and severe lie.

He has now admitted his cover up and it will most likely result in his resignation.

Those are the facts and I am not trying to state any opinion on his actions what it will do to his wife , family, or career.

The question as it pertains to this thread is Was his secret activity a lie? or just something he did not want to make public.

Again it has nothing to do with if one thinks what he was doing is right or wrong or what effects it would have on anyone else its about if keeping a secret from anyone is lying until someone knows about it and then you deny it?

[Sophie86]

but if your partner isn't someone you can totally be yourself with, do you really want that partner? If you don't want to let them in on the deep dark secrets that are current and important in your life, are they really your partner?

Speaking for myself, at the time I got married, I didn't want to be myself with myself, much less her. I was ashamed of being a crossdresser, and wanted to stop. Back then, it was a compulsion that I felt like I had no control over. It wasn't until about five years later, thanks to therapy, that I came to accept myself as I am. When that happened, I wanted to run straight home and talk to her about it. The only reason I didn't is because my therapist thought it might not be the best idea. I waited another nine years to tell her, and for about eight of those years my crossdressing actually stopped.

If I were ever hit by a bus and Crystal moved on to a new partner she felt she could be serious with, I would be super disappointed (and incredibly surprised) if they didn't have 'the talk' quite early on.

Given her level of self-knowledge, and experience with life, I think you would be right to be surprised.

After all, I haven't been living in his skin for the past umpteen years, so I really DON'T know what it's like to have to tell such a closely kept secret.

Well said.

[Lorileah]

REPLY TO LORILEAH POST #65

You're joking...............right?
Where exactly do you live, anyway?
It's obviously NOT the Denver in Colorado.
And how would I know this?
I read within the last month about a guy who was KILLED in one of that Denver's 'burbs because he was out and about dressed in female clothing and acting like a woman! By a guy who mistook him for an easy off the street booty call.

I don't know what source you are reading and I am sure that not every murder in the metro area is reported but there have been no TG killings listed in Denver for years and the last TG murder (which is now a hate crime in Colorado) was in Greeley which is 50 miles away and more rural. So easy Trigger. There are some things about that crime that you may not know. It was a date where the victim did not (according to the offender) tell him she was TG (actually TS non-op non hormones if I remember correctly.). No matter where you live there will be an a** who will not like what you are doing and that is true of everything in daily life (we still have the occasional racial crime).

Not only that, but nearly every city and town in the U.S. (existing since before the 1970's) has on its books ordinances outlawing female impersonation. True...few, if any, of the laws are enforced anymore, but none have ever been struck from the laws or invalidated, either. Any man dressed in female clothing could, in fact, be arrested and sent to jail for impersonation, especially since the laws invariably leave it up to police officers to define the behavior situationally.

they may be on the books but like sodomy laws they would be unenforceable. Our law officers here are for the most part (read there are always cowboys in every department) respectful and tolerant. If they aren't our current mayor and newly elected mayor have both vowed that those people will be looking for new employment.

Quote: "No one said you were angry bitter or little." Go back and read reply #9 by momarie........musta been a blonde moment on your part.

Since that statement was made in a reply directly to me I answered it as a if it was directed at me. You seem a little angry about all this

Your comments about lying to save a life? Go ask the guy in the Denver suburb.....Oh wait, he's dead!

Again don't know what you read but it wasn't a "guy" it was a transsexual person who was trying to live life as a woman but met a bad person.

Now if you are referring to the "Ms Puppy" murder the person who was suspected to be the murderer was a crossdresser not the victim. That was the last public murder involving a TG person in the metro area

Yes we all tend to focus on any crime when it involves one of our own

You state that Sophie "took time from her life." Yes, he did.....at the same time SHE was taking time from his life....it's a sharing thing. You obviously can't understand!

I can't? Gee how fascinating since I have no perspective of being a transgendered person for as long as I can remember. How I worried about the society reaction to being transgendered in the 80's because everything that could be associated with the gay community was considered a hazard and a health risk and how even a hint that you might be a TG in some areas was enough to have you at least shunned and often become a victim of some sort of hate speech. You are right I can't understand any of that.

I can understand that the person who chose to share my life knew about me almost from the start, supported me and never once tried to change me. We lived our lives normally for 35 years. She never threatened to leave because of my clothing, my feelings or often my attitude. I didn't hide who I was from her and she full disclosure from the start. This is why our life worked out. Yes there are things both of us never told the other but they were not anything that effected our life together. That is the point to all this, if it effects your spouse, it should not be a secret. You want to hide from the rest of the world, that is your prerogative. What you do in your house is only of issue with those living in the house.

I don't feel sorry for those that hide for years and then whine when they come out and get blasted. I don't buy your "he lost part of his life in that time" argument. That was HIS choice, he didn't give her the chance to make a decision. I will go back to the investment. If you don't disclose everything to the person who is building their life on what you present to be rather than what you really are, you are lying

Never let facts.....interfere with the thought processes, either!

Was that thought out? If your dressing effects your life alone, do what you see fit. If it effects someone who has built a life around you, it is their right to know.

[Sandra]

Sandra, for you it is not. For others it may be. It is possible for both levels of involvement to exist at the same time in different individuals. Let's keep the discussion civil, please.

Eryn with all due respect...the majority of cders here just think it is just about the clothes and makeup, and when an SO finds out they are moaned about because they either can't/won't accept...for most SO's it goes a heck of a lot deeper than the clothes etc.

[Sophie86]

I don't feel sorry for those that hide for years and then whine when they come out and get blasted.

So you did things the right way, and anyone who screwed up deserves whatever they get in the way of verbal condemnation?

I think it's great that you did things the way you did, and that it worked out so well.

Can you imagine that someone else might have wanted to take the same path but was terrified that it would blow up in his face?

Can you imagine that other people might have been so at odds with themselves over it that they didn't want to own it at all?

Do you really not have any sympathy for people like that?

*****

Eryn with all due respect...the majority of cders here just think it is just about the clothes and makeup, and when an SO finds out they are moaned about because they either can't/won't accept...for most SO's it goes a heck of a lot deeper than the clothes etc.

In your view, what is the significance to SOs that makes it so much more than just clothes?

[Lorileah]

Do you really not have any sympathy for people like that?

No sympathy, I will have empathy. I understand what you are saying. It is a common human (especially male) reaction to say "I can fix this" or "I can ignore it". And I can understand how many men believe this is a sexual thing that having relations with a female will make it go away. Usually the first part of the relationship it does because you are so busy having fun you don't have time to think about it. That is just life. But there is a wonderful thing we have going here now. With the advent of the internet and sites similar to this (which are not as common as the ones reinforcing how TGism is a perversion and fetish) we can tell people now that they are 1) not alone and 2) that coming out earlier rather than later is a good thing.

So 1) you are not alone. Many before you and with you are fearful because they think they know how the spouse will react and in their minds delaying what they believe will happen will make it somehow better later when usually it makes it worse. and 2) you really see this as "poor you and not poor spouse" because poor you had to hide for all these years while your spouse went blissfully ignorant with her life and you really don't see how by waiting so long it is harder for her to grasp what you are. Think about it. She saw you two in twin bathtubs watching the sunset in your later years. When the stress and strife of living was finally going to be decreased and things would be her fairytale world....you bring this up. If you had brought this up earlier, she could have changed her long term ideals. Maybe even so that you were BOTH princesses living in the castle. But now she wonders, why could you not trust her? Is there more to this? So after 20 (30-50) years what if you want to go out on your own (and that is not even saying you may want reassignment). When you first started she may have been willing to work with you because it isn't that big a deal. Now she is looking at the prospect that things were never what she imagined they were. What if you did want to leave now? Could she survive? You honestly don't see that over all this time you have built a trust, a trust that she had built her future on, that even if you don't think it will harm the relationship, it plants that seed. That little seed. What more is he hiding? What else don't I know about him? No all you see is that YOU need sympathy for your fear. Sorry, I empathize with your fear. We all have that fear, the fear of rejection, the fear of losing what you THINK you have, the fear things won't work out like you planned. Your spouse has that fear too. When you are younger you have time and energy to rebuild hopes and dreams. After years of being together, you have a new fear. You fear being outted. She fears losing what she had. You were terrified? How do you think she feels after 20 years to find out you held a secret?

You cannot change what you have done in the past. You can help lead others to not make the same mistakes.

In your view, what is the significance to SOs that makes it so much more than just clothes?

My idea is the hiding and keeping a secret makes it more than clothes. It makes it an issue of...shall we say...trust? If it was JUST clothes why didn't you bring it up earlier? I speak from a logical "male" side when I again bring up investment. She has a significant investment in your partnership. You withheld information. Information that may be pertinent to the success and profitability of the relationship. It isn't just the clothes. Clothes most women can live with. It is the emotional part of you not trusting her. Of you hiding something significant from her. You showing that her side of the bargain wasn't the same as yours. I won't say she doesn't have secrets, maybe she does. And possibly if she brought out those secrets you would know exactly how the SO's here feel.

And consider this, the SO's here are the ones who want to learn, who want to understand. You think you catch crap from the women here? Try the ones who go on other sites where they are told men are scum.

Sandra. I am sorry I stepped on your part of that question, please tell me if I am totally off base

[gingerli]

"I don't know what source you are reading and I am sure that not every murder in the metro area is reported but there have been no TG killings listed in Denver for years and the last TG murder (which is now a hate crime in Colorado) was in Greeley which is 50 miles away and more rural. So easy Trigger. There are some things about that crime that you may not know. It was a date where the victim did not (according to the offender) tell him she was TG (actually TS non-op non hormones if I remember correctly.). No matter where you live there will be an a** who will not like what you are doing and that is true of everything in daily life (we still have the occasional racial crime)."

First, please accept my humble apologies....my geography skills can tend to the horrendous, at least in reference to places I neither inhabit nor visit.
In my (admittedly feeble) defense, I haven't taken a geography class since the early 1960's and it was never my best subject to begin with.
Greeley is obviously NOT Denver nor a suburb!

That being said, however......

In YOUR original response to Sophie, you did NOT qualify your statements in respect to geo-social circumstance....To do so now in answer to MY response to your blanket statement is intellectually dishonest, under the best of interpretations. Whether in Greeley or in Denver, a person was murdered for impersonating a female...THAT is a fact! The perpetrator allegedly claims that he was not informed by the victim of the actual state of her genitalia.....What did the victim have to say about that? Oh, that's right, she's dead...she can't make any statements. Kinda like women who kill their SOs, then claim self-defense against alleged physical spousal abuse at trial.....who is it that can speak for the victim after the fact, except through hearsay, which, of course, is not admissible in a courtroom? And you claim that the victim was a non-op, non-hormone TS; how is she different physically from a passable CD?

"they may be on the books but like sodomy laws they would be unenforceable. Our law officers here are for the most part (read there are always cowboys in every department) respectful and tolerant. If they aren't our current mayor and newly elected mayor have both vowed that those people will be looking for new employment."

Here, your intellectual dishonesty really shines. All anti-sodomy laws in the country were vacated by the landmark Supreme Court of the U.S. June 2003 decision in re: Lawrence v. Texas. To my somewhat uncertain knowledge, no State's Supreme Court, much less SCOTUS, has ever nullified any anti-CD or -FI ordinances anywhere at any time. Thus, anti-sodomy laws ARE in fact unenforceable by the supreme law of the land; anti-impersonation laws COULD be enforced at any time, by anyone, for any reason. And as to the statements made by politicians: They ARE politicians, which means that they will say anything that helps get them elected or re-elected; fulfilling those promises is a whole 'nother thing altogether! Also, remember: these are the very same politicians who REFUSE to remove unenforced laws from the books, lest the politicians appear to be 'soft on crime!'

"Since that statement was made in a reply directly to me I answered it as a if it was directed at me. You seem a little angry about all this"

I'm not angry---maybe a little miffed, but more so at mis-directive statements. The phrase 'no one' does not have the same meaning as 'I';
don't believe me?...look it up!

"Again don't know what you read but it wasn't a "guy" it was a transsexual person who was trying to live life as a woman but met a bad person."

The word 'guy' was specifically chosen to evoke a particular emotive image, in direct contrast to the content in your blanket statements....my own provocative mis-statement. However, given your subsequent identification of the victim as a non-op, non-H, TG/S, I'm more than satisfied that my description is far more accurate than any you've proffered. There is NO constructive difference between this victim and a full-time CD, who, in a somewhat crude description, after all, is a 'guy in a dress!'

"Now if you are referring to the "Ms Puppy" murder the person who was suspected to be the murderer was a crossdresser not the victim. That was the last public murder involving a TG person in the metro area"

Was unaware of that crime.....so, no, not my reference.

"Yes we all tend to focus on any crime when it involves one of our own"

And, what's your point?

"I can't? Gee how fascinating since I have no perspective of being a transgendered person for as long as I can remember. How I worried about the society reaction to being transgendered in the 80's because everything that could be associated with the gay community was considered a hazard and a health risk and how even a hint that you might be a TG in some areas was enough to have you at least shunned and often become a victim of some sort of hate speech. You are right I can't understand any of that."

Interesting response you made. That it had NOTHING to do with the statement I made is, of course, peripheral.

MY point had to do with your assertion that Sophie 'used up' a significant portion of his wife's life by not telling her about his little hobby before they married. Where I grew up, people who get married do so at the exact same time; the agreement is to SHARE their lives, in spite of what each has experienced prior and, at least in theory, in spite of what they experience together afterwards. The divorce rates in this country attest to the inability of many people to live up to the promises they made at the time of their marriages. Which, of course, would include confessions of unexpected, perhaps even undesirable, behaviors.

Oh, and congratulations to you for growing up in La-La Land.....Imagine, the worst response you had to face was the possibility of being subjected to a little hate speech! In MY life, I've known people who've been physically assaulted, critically in some cases, raped, and even killed because their lifestyle did not satisfy some other person's standards of propriety.

"I can understand that the person who chose to share my life knew about me almost from the start, supported me and never once tried to change me. We lived our lives normally for 35 years. She never threatened to leave because of my clothing, my feelings or often my attitude. I didn't hide who I was from her and she full disclosure from the start. This is why our life worked out. Yes there are things both of us never told the other but they were not anything that effected our life together. That is the point to all this, if it effects your spouse, it should not be a secret. You want to hide from the rest of the world, that is your prerogative. What you do in your house is only of issue with those living in the house."

I agree, but then, as you've clearly stated, the worst consequence you ever faced for your behavior was speech! Trust me....broken bodies hurt for a lot longer, assuming you survive the experience.

"I don't feel sorry for those that hide for years and then whine when they come out and get blasted. I don't buy your "he lost part of his life in that time" argument. That was HIS choice, he didn't give her the chance to make a decision. I will go back to the investment. If you don't disclose everything to the person who is building their life on what you present to be rather than what you really are, you are lying"

Absolutely......but then, no matter what they may say to the contrary, everyone lies....at some point. The purpose may be to protect someone else, but it's still a lie.

"Was that thought out? If your dressing effects your life alone, do what you see fit. If it effects someone who has built a life around you, it is their right to know."

"Never let facts destroy a perfectly emotional argument" (never let facts.....interfere with the thought processes!)

Your quote...my modification...based on your illogical responses to Sophie's statements.

[Rianna Humble]

Your quote...my modification...based on your illogical responses to Sophie's statements.

I think the correct term for what you say there is "I deliberately misquoted you".

BTW, please stop quoting the whole of War and Peace just to add a one line snide comment

[DemonicDaughter]

First, I have to say, if you are "hiding" or "lying" about ANYTHING in a relationship, it generally means you are embarrassed about it. If you are embarrassed of who you are or what you do, then perhaps you shouldn't be doing it. If you can't help but do it (as is the case with most CDing and TS) then why not lay all the cards down in hopes that someone else won't attempt to prohibit you from doing it?

Second, if the OP's lists strikes you as "so true", "typical" and/or "every woman" perhaps you need to start hanging out with a new crowd. Personally, I don't announce to a date that I preform bodily functions because, as Lorileah said, it's a "given" but I also don't need to confess the level of toe curling stench it might produce either. If you are stupid enough to believe that a person, male or female, purposefully gets fat because they are no longer single, you obviously have never been fat yourself and shouldn't be talking.

Lastly, you're comparing issues that either should be discussed or discovered before marriage and aren't an actual lifestyle. You're talking character flaws, not spending HOURS a day doing something that prior to getting married you didn't even hint at. It's like pretending to not even know what fishing is before getting married then never coming home after work because you need to go fishing. You're changing the dynamics of the relationship that way and are no longer playing the same game. It's one thing to have our delusions of our partners shattered, like discovering your girlfriend runs into the bathroom so you don't hear her fart but entirely something different when she runs in the bathroom to spend hours preening over her appearance, finding sexual gratification out of it, taking photos of herself doing it and messaging people outside your relationship about it. Do you see how that differs... just a bit?

[Sophie86]

No sympathy, I will have empathy.

Yeah.... I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to make there. Can we split the difference and call it compassion? All I'm saying is that when a guy comes here to tell us about how his wife found out, and now he's in the soup, we shouldn't blast him for having lied. Doesn't he have enough problems already?

But there is a wonderful thing we have going here now. With the advent of the internet and sites similar to this (which are not as common as the ones reinforcing how TGism is a perversion and fetish) we can tell people now that they are 1) not alone and 2) that coming out earlier rather than later is a good thing.

Right, and as I said before, we should encourage people to tell the truth. I just don't see the point of jumping on people when they come here and say, "My wife of 20-30 years just found out that I'm a cross dresser, and I'm afraid she's going to divorce me." I mean, the guy's world is falling apart. Is it nice to say, "Serves you right?"

So 1) you are not alone.

I'm confused by what you wrote here. Were you responding to what you think my situation is, or some hypothetical person? If it's the former, please scroll back through the thread and read my previous responses wherein I explain my life.

What if you did want to leave now? Could she survive?

Um, yeah. Quite well, actually. I'm the no-career-having, "stay-at-home mom" in the family. She's got a great job.

You honestly don't see that over all this time you have built a trust, a trust that she had built her future on, that even if you don't think it will harm the relationship, it plants that seed. That little seed. What more is he hiding? What else don't I know about him?

Surprisingly, my wife didn't take it that way at all. She didn't assume that just because I had hidden this one thing about myself from everyone in the whole world, that I must have dozens of other skeletons in my closet. It had zero effect on her trust in me.

No all you see is that YOU other people need sympathy for your their fear.

Fixed that for you. This isn't about me. It's about how I saw someone else being treated.

You fear being outted. She fears losing what she had. You were terrified? How do you think she feels after 20 years to find out you held a secret?

I don't know how other women feel, or why. I just know how my wife reacted, and it was completely unlike any of that. It was more like: "Really?? Wow... okay." No terror, no "What else are you hiding?" Why do some women have no trouble understanding why their husbands kept the secret, and forgiving them? I would say it's for two reasons: 1) They are really happy with their marriage; and 2) they don't think the crossdressing is a big deal. It doesn't negate all the good years they've had together.

You cannot change what you have done in the past. You can help lead others to not make the same mistakes.

Right, no one can change the past. So when someone comes here and says he got busted by his wife, why don't we say something like: "We understand why you did it. You can't change the past, but here's what you can do going forward."

My idea is the hiding and keeping a secret makes it more than clothes. It makes it an issue of...shall we say...trust?

Sandra can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she meant that regardless of whether there is lying or not, it's more than just clothes. If I'm right, I would like to understand her perspective on it. Personally, I agree that it's not just clothes, but I would like to know her reasons for saying that.

[gingerli]

Hey, Soph......

Betcha you didn't know what a can of worms you were opening when you posted that bit of humor!!!!!!!!!!!

mark---real (boy) name

[Huntress]

"Cuh-Lasse; define:"
Forum
Thread
Discussion
Compassion
Vitiate
Didactic

"Pretty sure NO one has the "Final answer" for our contestant, tonight, Bob." "But let's show our contestant what he/she has won."

"a new CAR!"

Now back to the show...

[GaleWarning]

So there we were, discussing this thread. Shesa asks, "How would you feel if, after three years together, I suddenly announced that I wanted to start wearing trousers and get a p***s?"

I respond, "I'd wonder if my willy was too small to satisfy you."

"Youv'e nailed a big aspect of the GGs' fear - that they are somehow inadequate."

Just my

[Eryn]

Eryn with all due respect...the majority of cders here just think it is just about the clothes and makeup, and when an SO finds out they are moaned about because they either can't/won't accept...for most SO's it goes a heck of a lot deeper than the clothes etc.

I think I understand now. I was referring to the internal motivations of CDers and you were referring to the interpretation of CDing by SOs. Two completely different things.

[shesadvl]

So there we were, discussing this thread. Shesa asks, "How would you feel if, after three years together, I suddenly announced that I wanted to start wearing trousers and get a p***s?"

I respond, "I'd wonder if my willy was too small to satisfy you."

"Youv'e nailed a big aspect of the GGs' fear - that they are somehow inadequate."

Just my

I am not sure you actually understood what i was saying CF, I actually said in the dialogue we were having was
how would it be received by our male partners who crossdress would feel if all of a sudden we as GG's dropped on them that we wanted to be FTM, how would they react,

I know your mind wasnt where it should be it hasnt been all day....

your comment at that,....." was all of a sudden my willy would become to small and probably not satisfy you,"

,
what i took from that was You as a Male would feel inadequate!!!! because we chose to want to be FTM,......how would this affect us as you quoted?????

well I do know there are some darnd big dildos out there, perhaps that would be easier batteries dont argue and then the dildo doesnt dress maybe thats the answer... lol....

"Youv'e nailed a big aspect of the GGs' fear - that they are somehow inadequate."

I have no fear of any of you dressing, whether it be better then myself, we are all individualistic,..... and im sure the other GG's have no fear of feeling inadequate, of what you dress in either,...I could go further in my comment on this but ill get slapped.... (yeh could like that tooo lol).... so we shall leave that there..... but you get the gist of my comment..... man....oOOOOOooo man....if i could reach through the computor i know a few would get a slap up the side the head..n say wake up......

You guyz just dont get it!!!!!!!!!!! we have no fear of you ever,you try and emulate us as woman,... you keep it secret for god knows how long (ok CF exception of you and a few others here)...

IF you guyz think that then I think a lot of you are all friggin dreaming...and your heads are buried not in sand but up in the dark dreary end of your butt...... (nice terminology on my part...) .....

i think you all need to grow up get up to speed of being happy with yourselves, on the same page with your wives that know,.....
those that havent told your wives,.... i suggest perhaps you do..... be honest about things,.....I wonder how many will.... not a lot....

so this a dead horse being flogged by those that wish to change things to suit their end means.....

[Anna B]

I would not have a big problem if my wife announced that she was going to go FtoM. since I am tending towards MtoF, as long as she still wanted to be with me!

Anna x

[shesadvl]

lol anna....

as long as she still wanted to be with me!

that would end up a long dialogue and if there isnt any there at present ,.....If both partners were honest before the start of their marriage as some of the posters have said.... all cards on the table... the wife supports the husband because he CD's they're both on the
same page, there are those that walk the path of transition,.. with great wives who there with them all the way,... and still with there partners,....
then there are the others drop the bomb on the wife....re their transientness, throw huge tantrums because they cant be and do who they want to be.... dont know if they are going to transition...do give their wives the grief...... this is dropped on the wife after say 10/15 years of marriage....
how the he*l.... do you think a wife is supposed to get her head around all this including the fact that the husband is transgendered either dresses, and goes all out in all directions....

its as bad being married and come home and finding your husband in bed with another man!!!!! or another woman!!!!! vice versa.....they both/all have the same results....& effect.

its not the clothes its not the makeup its not the wanting to be ftm either... it goes deeper then how do you not respect the person you want in your life for the right reason
no matter how you are.... is there not a thought to give them that chance to show you that they care for you as to who you are not,... how you are,........or how you dress,
but for goodness sake dont damn well lie about things....

Irene shesadvl yup thats me......

[Sandra]

In your view, what is the significance to SOs that makes it so much more than just clothes?

Not quite sure what you mean but I'll have a go

Initially it is trust, deceit, it is not just the finding out but what comes later, the cder thinking that just because the SO knows then they can spend what they want, dress when ever they want etc without talking to their SO's about it, and if any boundaries have been agreed, pushing these to the limit and going over board with them.

Sandra. I am sorry I stepped on your part of that question, please tell me if I am totally off base

No problems....and I think most GGs here will agree with you.

[Sophie86]

Initially it is trust, deceit, it is not just the finding out but what comes later, the cder thinking that just because the SO knows then they can spend what they want, dress when ever they want etc without talking to their SO's about it, and if any boundaries have been agreed, pushing these to the limit and going over board with them.

Ah, okay! That's completely different from where I thought you were going. Thanks for replying!

The part about spending what they want, doing what they want, and pushing agreed-on boundaries could be said about pretty much any husband and his hobby, though, right? Golfing, hunting, fishing, shooting... I've done the hunting and the fishing. Currently, I play D&D, and we've had plenty of issues over that one. Neither one compares to my dad's gun collection though. The man is obsessed.