Too late to the party...?

[Leslie Langford]

Like many of the Boomers (and near-Boomers) here, my perceptions of femininity and my idealization (idolization?) of women and the way I prefer to see them dress and act are firmly rooted in a bygone era when women commonly wore skirts, dresses, stockings, and high heels, took great pains with their hair and make up, and generally "dressed up" when going to work, entertaining and/or visiting friends and family. In addition, they always wore their "Sunday Best" when the occasion warranted it.

Now, the extremes seem to range between looking cheap and ****ty with piercings, tattoos, skin-tight jeans and tops as well as lots of bared cleavage being the order of the day, or else gravitating towards "Walmart chic" i.e. the requisite uniform of sweats, baggy tops, jogging pants, jeans, runners and/or flip-flops.

So, in attempting to replicate this - for lack of a better word - "vintage look", how really out of sync with the modern world are we aging crossdressers now?

More to the point - is it time now to redefine the term "crossdressing", since what we traditionalists tend to prefer wearing is what women for the most part abandoned years ago in the name of "liberation" and comfort?

Maybe instead of crossdressing, all we are doing now by default is making our own fashion statements - no different from the folks expressing their "uniqueness" by sporting Mohawks, purple hair, or wearing torn and paint-splattered jeans in public...

[suzy1]

Yes Leslie, we are now making our own fashion statements. But they are based on the wonderful women of years ago. Sofia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, Elizabeth Taylor, Brigitte Bardot. I could go on.
Forget the modern world with girls dressing like a train wreck. We will go on looking super sexy.

SUZY

[AllieSF]

Well, your ideal and idol era of fashion at one time was probably scandalous to the previous generation. The more modern society gets, the more fashion changes. I enjoy the changes, am a kid at heart and do not want to grow up. No, I do not wear all those newer and younger fashions for the younger crowd, at least not all the time. But I do enjoy it all and do not mind being the only woman at a gathering or in a restaurant with a skirt on. I am proud of how I look and am always learning.

[kendra_gurl]

Good point Leslie.
I'm sure most all who crossdress idolize the fashion of the times when they are young and very impressionable. And yes us babyboomer do remember the times before pantyhose were invented (1963 I believe). I think your post also describes the differences we olders girls with the younger members here.
While we can all say its about fashion some of us enjoy recreating a fashion while others consider wearing whatever they want as making their own fashion statement. Their certainly is a difference between what we idolozed in the mid 50 and early 60's and what 30 year old today idolized in the mid 80's and early 90's

[Jane G]

I think we are talking chique here, I love that look and fortunately so does my born in the 60's and beautiful with it, wife.

[Sarah Michelle]

Like Leslie, for whatever the reasons, I too adore the dresses, skirts and heels of years now past. This season, it seems that really pretty "girly" summer dresses and skirts are nowhere to be found in the mainstream stores. It's frustrating.

[Leslie Foxx]

is it time now to redefine the term "crossdressing"

How about "retrodressers" ???

[Gaby2]

Like many of the Boomers (and near-Boomers) here, my perceptions of femininity and my idealization (idolization?) of women and the way I prefer to see them dress and act are firmly rooted in a bygone era when women commonly wore skirts, dresses, stockings, and high heels, took great pains with their hair and make up, and generally "dressed up" when going to work, entertaining and/or visiting friends and family. In addition, they always wore their "Sunday Best" when the occasion warranted it...

I can identify with your observation of "living in a bygone era" as a cder, Leslie.
I sometimes believe that I'm just living in the past, but this is probably only partially true.

I must say that one thing I like about living in Germany is that generally women from their mid-thirties upwards go to great pains to look... attractive... and often attractive in a chique way.
That's especially so at work and at any public event.
Indeed it seems that much of what you claim to be a lost "dressed-up" look is actually present in modern day ladies' fashion!
At least here in Germany it is.

As I continue to talk ever more freely to my real-life (as of yet exclusively girl-)friends about my personal experiences, the reactions I've received have led to much of my wardrobe becoming irrelevant.

The irrelevant clothing is not the "out-of-date" category clothing and certainly not the glamour old-timer intime wear I enjoy so much (except for eighties undies, which I now detest).
It tends to be cloths that I bought on a whim, or because I thought I was getting a bargain, or even cloths I bought just to be buying cloths!

I'm becoming evermore aware of cloths that don't fit me well, have colours which don't suit my complexion or have simply a bad cut.
My taste in clothing seems to be developing but I'll have to be careful here, because I want to be able to prove myself.
I find all of my friends attractive and I know they enjoy not only skirts, stockings and high heels but also pretty sexy frills and even fetishy elements.

I got quizzed this afternoon about my use (or rather lack of use) of make-up by a good friend who dropped by for a few hours.
After all the talking, I asked whether I could dress for her soon... she was charmed!
We arranged for next Tueday evening when I have some unexpected free time.
I'm a little apprehensive to say the least and I'll check this all out with my SO beforehand.

I consider myself a traditionalist.
Am I intent on making a fashion statement? I don't think so.
I couldn't anyway, could I?
I know what I want to wear next Tuesday though.
I want to impress her a little and pleasantly surprise her.
We'll see.
Gaby

[Fab Karen]

Abandoned years ago- go into any major city, you'll see women in a diversity of dressing styles, INCLUDING dresses ( I'm speaking of ones shopping, eating in restaurants for example ). btw, in this town there IS no core. Tons of make-up is sold in this country alone, & a small portion of it is bought by CD's.

[Leslie Langford]

Yes Leslie, we are now making our own fashion statements. But they are based on the wonderful women of years ago. Sofia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, Elizabeth Taylor, Brigitte Bardot. I could go on.
Forget the modern world with girls dressing like a train wreck. We will go on looking super sexy.

SUZY

Right on, suzy!

And while you're at it, add Catherine Deneuve, Grace Kelly, Ann-Margaret, and Raquel Welch to your list...and maybe even Princess Di, as she was a bit of a throwback to a more elegant era in the way she liked to dress for formal occasions.

[TGMarla]

You can count me in as a "retrodresser". I attended high school and college between the years of 1974 and 1982, and women wore nice dresses, heels, hosiery, and the like on a very regular basis. I still enjoy the vintage looks of the '70s and '80s far more than any other era, and I tend to indulge in these styles when I dress. I absolutely love wearing such dresses, and I take no particular enjoyment from many of the modern styles at all. It doesn't bother me all that much if I sometimes look like a relic; I know my clothes are pretty, and I feel pretty when I wear them. And that's why I crossdress in the first place. VIVA PANTYHOSE!!!!

[Misti]

How about "retrodressers" ???

Ladies, I invite your attention to all the fabulous ladies comments above who have posted in this great thread, so far, and then to go back once again and admire their incredible profile pics. You are all, each and every one of you, the epitome of beauty IMHO.

Viva la Retrodressers!"

[Inna]

Honestly, I believe that what you remember from days, not so long ago, are the examples of high fashion at the time. Where majority of woman did not go all the way fashionistas, but were just comfortable in their not so chic attire. Our ability to remember rather positive memories and drop the not so positive allows for this colorful image where the facts were slightly more grayish. I do not argue that such fashion, even at its mediocre was still better than today's flip/flop infested, as you put it, Walmart fashion. But travel to Manhattan or another more inter continental, affluent place and fashion there is Yawza, superb! I do notice that overseas in major cities ladies pay way more attention to fashionable looks then here in rural Americana. But as well, there seems to be more judgmentally oriented societies where in America we tend to feel rather relaxed toward general appearance. Just look at the airline passengers traveling international routs, Girls in jogging sweats, boys with baseball caps and then European woman wearing latest fashion and man as well. Oh well, I guess is up to the individual to set the standards, but several weeks ago I visited Walmart (yes I am guilty of such inappropriate behavior and spotted, very tall, beautiful brunette wearing spotless fashion, probably on the way to some important what ever. Her presentation despite being way out of Walmart etiquette, looked as though she was a top world model strolling amongst real mediocre people. Everyone had that, O M G look and I could feel their admiration for her style and beauty. So there you go, today as yesterday, we have a choice to present ourselves in the way which reflects our mind set.

[sterling12]

Your emulating Michelle Obama? That's a pretty good "Role Model," if you have to have one. She's feminine, and chic, and always dresses well!

I have noted before that the Women who make those "Top Ten Dressed Lists" DO NOT follow trends....so, who says that you have to do that. I know a fair number of "Gurly-Girls" who wear dresses, and really enjoy their femininity. They don't seem to be bothered at all about looking "Retro," so why should you? Take a look at The Newport News Website. Somebody is buying that stuff! It can't all be CD's! I imagine there are a lot more out there than you imagine. NOBODY should look like they have done all their shopping at The Bell's Outlet!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[ReineD]

I agree with Alexa. You are comparing the fashion icons of the past, with today's ordinary women.

You should compare past fashion icons with past ordinary women, and current fashion icons with current ordinary women.

But first consider your sources for the retro look: movie and TV stars and fashion posters, not the ordinary women of the day. My mother was born in 1931. In those days, most people took pictures of themselves all dressed up for special occasions. There aren't many, but most pictures of my mom were taken in her Sunday best. But, there are a few of her in her ordinary life. As a teenager in the 40s, she wore her hair in a pony tail and had on ugly, pouffy, loud plad pants and an over-sized shirt that looks like a man's shirt, with flat shoes. There are other pics of her in the early 1950s thus attired with her similarly attired girlfriends (they were all in their 20s) but it must have been fall because many had long, dark, shapeless looking cardigans. In this particular pic my mother is wearing a large sweatshirt that says "Jasper" on it, likely from a vacation her parents took. I have a picture of her some years later as a young mother with me, on a hot summer's day: her hair is tied back unceremoniously in a ponytail with lots of hair strands falling out, no makeup, a loose button down house dress (shapeless with no belt) with straight short sleeves and a collar, and flat comfy shoes with bobby socks. I remember the woman who lived downstairs. She was portly, severe looking with mannish type shoes and boxy looking clothes. I remember my best friend's mother next door: a loud, very heavy woman, no makeup, hair tied in a bun at the nape of her neck, with the same, loose nondescript straight housedress well below her knees with flat shoes. She didn't have a figure. She had 5 or 6 kids. She couldn't have been past her early to mid 30s.

We do still have beauty ideals in today's movie stars and fashion icons who are exquisitely dressed and these are the images that will survive 50 years from now: the red carpet photo ops, the fashion magazine covers, etc. When people look back on how we dressed in the 2010s, no one will think of what young girls wear at the mall, as you describe.

The point is, the media always has and continues to sell us an ideal of feminine beauty that perhaps CDers (and also many, but not most women) choose to believe is the reality in terms of how women "should" look. Who can resist the image of such ideals dangled in front of our eyes, with the promise that we too can look like that if we want, and if we choose to, then the world would fall at our feet? Who can resist beauty under any circumstances?

I think that CDers in particular are more vulnerable to fall for it because they start from scratch in default male mode. They can transform themselves into any likeness they please. So why not emulate the beauties, the women they are attracted to as men, instead of the ordinary woman down the street who does not turn heads? It makes sense to get the forms and the waist cinchers that will produce a classic hourglass figure and wear the clothes to match, and also go all the way with the makeup, the jewelry, the shoes. If I were a CDer, if I had to pick a look, I'd probably choose the best of the best that I could find in magazines.

But most GGs (the ones you refer to in your post) don't have to do this. They are already women. They don't need to transform into an ideal in order to be feminine, since they already are (compared to the men in their lives whose looks also fall short of the male icons during the 50s). These women might go for it once in a while if they want to dress up, or the younger women might do so more consistently if they are looking for a mate, or the woman who has more time or financial resources, or an image to uphold at work, might chase the ideal more consistently.

I hope I didn't sound critical with my words and I know you didn't start this thread as a vehicle to compare CDers to GGs. But it's all a part of the overall topic in my view. And I need to add that I chase the beauty ideals too sometimes. I'm not immune to it either. But, I also am OK with not going all out with fashion. I can just be myself most of the time and if it means looking undesirable to someone who has higher fashion ideals and aspirations than me because of the high standards established by the media, then that's OK.

[Leslie Langford]

Good points, Alexia, and yes, one can still find well-dressed professional women (senior executives, lawyers, stockbrokers, investment bankers, chartered accountants etc.) in the downtown cores of most major North American cities these days. But as for any other setting...fuhgeddaboudit!

But having first entered the workforce during the Mad Men era, I can personally vouch for the accuracy in the way the typical office environment is presented there - sexism, male dominance, widespread hanky-panky, liquid lunches, rampant smoking, and even lower and mid-level women office workers dressed at all times in skirts, dresses, stockings, heels - and my personal favorite from that era - bullet bras! Slacks and pantsuits? No women ever wore those in a professional setting, with the possible exception of actress/singer Marlene Dietrich, who first began to experiment with that look back in the 1930's and 40's. And look how that ended up...

[Beth-Lock]

I am comfortable in 1950's styles, also because I feel I pass better in a skirt or dress, longish hair rather than a pixie cut, and enough make-up to cover any five o'clock shadow as well as obvious lipstick as a highlight and very obviously coloued nail polish. My gender counsellor also got me out of T-shirts and into more feminine styled tops, thpugh she tried to sell me on pants at the same time. I feel comfortable walking down the street dressed much the same as a lipstick lesbian companion. The nice thing about today's fashions is that dresses have come back.

[Polly R]

All good stuff! I have just passed my 60th b/day 8¬{} and so can no longer wear things I remember from the 1960's - mini-skirts / mini-dresses etc, some of which I like(d) the look of. The clothes of the 1950's I remember, to me, were not very flattering (although the tight waists had some appeal). I just like to dress 'classic' / 'smart' - however you like to define that. Just try to fit in with perhaps the slightly smarter set you'd see in one of our big UK shopping malls. Definitely don't like the scruffy / sloppy set we seem to see a lot of these days as described as 'Walmart uniform' - yes, we have a lot of it here in the UK too!

My two penneth,

Polly

[Valerie1973]

Long gone are the days of Harriet Nelson, June Clever, and I Love Lucy. Also, Ginger from Gilligan's Island. Now if you want a high fashion diva you'll have to hook up with a high maintenance gal like the chicks on "Real House wives" or Desperate House Wive's. But really, do you want a Snookie or a Paris Hilton? The world changed. My mom is a baby boomer and she was a very fashion savvy lady in her day as far back as I can remember in the '70's and '80's, now she's retired and fell of the fashion wagon to join the new lazy dress code, yet mom will still take pride according to the occasion. I've herd all the stories of how my grandma and my mom would allays be in a dress no matter what back in the '50's and up until the early '70's. I've often wondered if that had some influence on my desire to dress? I do have to mention my mother's fashion sense did influence my fashion sense. Peace All.

[Alice Torn]

[SIZE="3"]I have noticed that the fashion in Eastern Europe, particularly the Ukraine, and Russia, tends to be dresses and skirts and heels! America is the the number one nation, yet, but, we clothing and feminine attire has , "taken in the shorts". Where jeans are the norm here, dresses are the norn there. Sad commentary on our culture. A new dark age.[/SIZE]

[Tina B.]

Call me a retro dresser, I love it, if I where to dress the way most women in age bracket dress in my area, I would be stuck in Polyester pant suits! I'm to old to dress like those cute little girls, in tight skinny jeans, and would look like a sausage stuff in them, but I'm not ready to consider to POLYESTER PANT SUITS!

[Kerrylee61]

OMG, and here I thought I was the only one who feels that way!!! I thought I had posted your message myself till I looked at your lovely presentation Leslie.

My wife and I were watching "Same time next year" the other day and we both were commenting about the beautiful ladies sense of style and grace back in the 50's. Geeze, that was in the last century come to think of it... I guess that means I'm an OLD Lady but a stylish one!!

Kerry

[Kerrylee61]

Your are correct re the Eastern European countries ladies still dressing in high heels, nylons/pantyhose, dresses, skirts etc. That would be because due to the Communist system of keeping everything "Western" out of their society they are still by and large 50 to 60 years behind in fashion. It's actually an interesting side effect of a political system.
Maybe all us Boomers should move to Russia......

Silly me!
Kerry

[docrobbysherry]

I tend to side with Reine and Louise!

I still see some very sexy, attractive women out there! Instead of swirly dresses, they're wearing leans and sweaters. Or, shorts and cut "T"s!

What seems to have gone out of fashion is FEM FIGURES!
And, along with that lost hourglass, I think many women of today have just GIVEN UP trying to look attractive!

In my day, women were EMBARRASSED to go out looking sloppy, dirty, or tousled. Nothing seems to embarrass today's ladies!

Is THAT a good thing? "Fem progress", maybe?

[kendra_gurl]

Of Course there are High Fashion Icons out there today and quite feminine and sexy too. Its difficult for a babyboomer to copy so many of todays styles though as we need foundation undergarments and hosiery to help sculpt our gravity sinking bodies and hide varicose vanes. Most fashion of today shows lots of skin which age spots don't look very sexy.

It is a problem with trying to dress at all retro Glam and then find a place to go without attracting too much attention, As Alexia mentioned about the well dresses Wal_Mart shopper. I'd look a little out of place at the casino with my wife wearing a glittery sequin mini dress and heels, ( I did that in Vegas but that was Vegas) while the wife was in crop pants and a plain top and sandels

Here is an example of what excite me