I have a female friend who knows I only wear ladies clothing, but she doesn't feel like I'm crossdressing, because I don't go out in dresses, wigs or makeup, and I never try to pass as a women. I had to remind her that I don't even own any guy clothing, except for something to wear on very rare occasions for weddings or funerals.
So when does it become crossdressing? Is it when you dress up in ladies clothing, or is when you actually try to pass as a female in public?
I think crossdressing is when you wear female clothing. However, that's an interesting question. My wife can wear my shirt, jeans, sneakers and boxers all day and not be thought of as crossdressing.
Personally, I try to maintain my appearance as a male. I have yet to explore how to really dress as a female does. I only have a few things bought in thrift shops. I did get some VS stuff recently so I guess I am working my way up from underwear.
In my eyes:
Crossdresser = Someone who wears the clothing of another gender for comfort/pleasure/appearance/wanting to feel 'feminine' or 'masculine' by dressing up. Sometimes this might just be in the comfort of their own homes, sometimes they may go out and try to pass as women.
Transvestitie = Someone who wears the clothing of both genders as a statement of equality. Does not try to pass as female, may be androgynous or male looking - doesn't alter their body using breast forms or padding and just wears the clothes as they are because they feel that all clothing should be open to all people. May also wear makeup but not in an attempt to make themselves LOOK female, again just as a statement of equality.
Metrosexual = Someone who occasionally wears women's tops/jeans in order to complete their look but who is predominantly male. I see metrosexual more as someone who is male and wishes to present as male but who takes pride and care in their appearance and whose style may be a little feminine (either in styles or colours). May wear male makeup and style their hair more than your 'average' male.
So I think you're a transvestite (in that you don't try to pass as female) but you're also a crossdresser (because you make a point to always wear FEMALE clothing) and you're also a metrosexual because you're a male who take great pride and thinks a lot about your appearance (and you wear female clothing because it's your style)
I hope that makes sense - and as I said before these are just MY definitions from my head. None of this is black and white... or even grey, heh.
Its user definable. Like any other label. It becomes crossdressing when you say it does... And not a minute before... Up until then its just plain old dressing. Lol.
It ends when one finally has sex on the Metro!
I have always thought that the word "Metrosexual" merely describes a Man who pays attention, maybe a little bit too much attention, to his grooming, clothing and general appearance. In other words, your typical self-absorbed and narcissistic Manhattanite with a couple of degrees, and too much spendable income. A Metrosexual would have a fairly good idea of which white wines go best with chicken and which go best with lobster, and would shave his chest because he's in good shape from working-out, and doesn't want his six-pack and pects to be obscured by a lot of ugly fuzz.
The first time I heard the word was probably during a 'Sex and the City Episode,' and in context it didn't have anything to do with gender preference. Of course, most of the men that the girls dated on the show fit the general profile I described above, so that could have skewed my perception of what a Metrosexual is.
In any case, if I was casting a movie I'd pick an actor like James Spader or Brad Pitt to play the sophisticated Metrosexual, and for the counter-foil would pick someone like Vince Vaughn who has become type-cast to Slob roles.
I was reading this thread, did a self-inventory, and realized that every stitch of clothing I have on came from the women's side of the aisle. The funny thing is that I decided to be in guy mode today and I am. The women's jeans and polo shirts I'm wearing fit better and are more comfortable than their men's counterparts, probably due to the magic of spandex. The toning shoes I'm wearing only came in only one men's style, so I had to buy women's for my second and third pairs. Likewise, my no-show socks are available in mens, but only in white, so if I wanted something else it was only in the women's department. The ironic thing is that all of these items were considerably cheaper to buy in their women's version.
So, I'm totally cross-dressed, but I'm not since I'm presenting as male.
At the moment I guess that's metrosexual. Luckily, I can switch pidgeonholes relatively easy!
Eryn (sort of...)
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Here in my small city, metrosexual has nothing to do with the crossdressing continuum. It refers to a man who or woman who is not afraid to mix gender identified clothing. A man in a suit who wears a scarf as a fashion statement. Women who wear men's shirts as a fashion statement. The term may be used differently in other places, but here it mostly refers to fashion, not gender.
S
I believe crossdressing is based primarily on the intent of the dresser. If the intent is to dress as the opposite gender, regardless of the clothes, then it is crossdressing. Oh, and lipstick! You know you're a MtF crossdresser when own and wear lipstick!!!
Why split hairs while trying to debate the differences. Just skip the metro look and go for the gold. Most people where I live wouldn't recognize the variance anyway.
Babette
Someone else's imagination is a terrible thing to waste.
the media defines metrosexual as guys who obsess over their looks, and do things like get manicures & sometime pedi's. That definition says nothing about wearing women's clothes of any kind. The media poster-boy would be Ryan Seacrest ( Am. Idol host ).
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It's crossdressing when you think you're not "supposed" to wear it but you do it anyway.
A metrosexual is a man who makes sure he is perfectly groomed: skincare, buffed nails, not a hair out of place, perfectly polished shoes, male jewelry, cologne, impeccable male clothing. The grooming has nothing to do with an alternate gender identity. I think the term originated from the combination of "metropolitan" and "homosexual". Nowadays, male grooming is becoming more mainstream, but there was a time where men who cared about their appearance to this degree were thought to be homosexual. Or, in times past, they were defined as a "fop" or a "dandy".
As to the CDing, most people in the Gallery and in their avatars post pics of themselves definitely presenting as women, so I guess I understand your friend's comment if her definition of a CDer is a male who presents visibly female with makeup, forms, pads, wigs, etc. Or, it could be that she also has an image of the more flamboyant drag queen in mind? I don't know how aware she is of the various ways that people can CD.
But then I've seen quite a few posts here from members who do prefer an article of clothing just because it comes from the woman's side of the store, even if it is not "feminine" in a traditional sense. There could be several reasons for this, or a combination of the reasons:
- They are TS and the only thing that matters is knowing they are dressed in women's clothes. Style may not be all that important at the moment. In this case it is not CDing in my book, since the TS is dressing in a way that conforms to her true gender identity. She knows that she is not a man.
- They are CDers who do not feel comfortable or free to present completely as a woman in public or with their wives, or perhaps they don't feel up to all-out dressing all the time. So perhaps wearing women's jeans and polo tops imparts a degree of comfort, as "the next best thing". This would be CDing.
- Their gender is not well defined. They may not see themselves as purely male, or purely female even if it is sometimes, and they prefer to dress in a way that is as close to being in the middle as they can. This still does indicate an alternative form of gender ID though, and not a metrosexual male for whom the motive is not gender based. But I don't know that in this case I'd call it CDing. Let's complicate things by making up a new label: ambidressing?
Anyway, I guess I'd have to say that if the person wearing clothes from the women's side was genuinely not concerned or aware which side of the store they came from, then they wouldn't be CDing. But, if the reason for buying a particular item is because it is on the girl's side, then I'd say it is definitely CDing. For example my dad at one point took to wearing women's tights in the winter for the cold and in his case it definitely was not CDing. He didn't get a sexual kick out of it, neither did he combine them with women's slacks, shirts, nor did he have any desire to paint his nails, etc and had there been a equal amount of choice in the men's department at the same price, he would have bought the tights that were closest to the door. He hates to shop.
So ... in my view, it is the motive more than the style of clothing worn that determines whether or not it is CDing.And I guess sometimes it can be difficult for any of us to determine our true motives.
Last edited by ReineD; 07-12-2011 at 09:46 PM. Reason: Restructured my post to make it easier to read
Reine
Didn't Howard Dean say he was a metro, when running for pres?
Oh wow now I'm really confused, I might have to put on a nightie and sleep on this one!!
Orchid
Originally Posted by ReineD
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
All of your statements describe my situation well.
I like getting fully dressed, but that is something I cannot do all the time. The alternative is to dress in a way that makes me feel good (my wife calls it "tactile dressing" as opposed to "visual dressing.") I enjoy the feel of panties and the fit of the polo shirt and jeans from the misses' department.
The funny thing is that I bought these items in part because they were in the female side of the store, yet when I put them on this morning I gave no thought to the fact that they were female garments. So, I'm crossdressing but I'm not crossdressing!
I think that René Magritte should paint my portrait: "Ceci n'est pas une travesti"
Last edited by Eryn; 07-12-2011 at 10:21 PM. Reason: To realign my quote with ReineD's edited post
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Wow Reine, .. what you have described (as above) is exactly how I am and how I feel when I am in (my) boy mode.Their gender is not well defined. They may not see themselves as purely male, or purely female even if it is sometimes, and they prefer to dress in a way that is as close to being in the middle as they can. This still does indicate an alternative form of gender ID though, and not a metrosexual male for whom the motive is not gender based. But I don't know that in this case I'd call it CDing. Let's complicate things by making up a new label: ambidressing?
.
The River City Gems - Northern California's largest and most active crossdressing & transgender support group!
But only sometimes, right?Wow Reine, .. what you have described (as above) is exactly how I am and how I feel when I am in (my) boy mode.
This is interesting. I wonder if a seasoned CDer also feels perfectly natural when dressed, and doesn't look at it as CDing either, since she is just wearing what feels right? I'll have to ask my SO how she feels about that.
Last edited by ReineD; 07-12-2011 at 10:20 PM.
Reine
I think that you are right, in the case of someone who is full-time or nearly full-time. We're getting close to TS territory here and they definitely don't cross-dress.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Ha ha .. yes, only sometimes, and never when we go out to TG events or out with friends that are "CDing couples" like us!But only sometimes, right?
.
The River City Gems - Northern California's largest and most active crossdressing & transgender support group!
Hmm... I've dated metrosexual guys in the past, and there is DEFINITELY a difference between being metrosexual and crossdressing, for SURE. For the metrosexuals I've known, it's all about going that extra subtle mile to look their best, and accentuate their male attributes in a sleek, sexy, male way - sometimes using the tools that traditionally are reserved for women, like highlights, mousse, perms, waxing, moisturizers, makeup (including tinted lip balms!)... you name it, there are metro guys who use it, probably in conjunction with going to the gym and lifting weights in order to get a nice, cut chest and torso. I've not met a metrosexual guy yet who wasn't totally aware of what he was putting on, and what it did for him, even/especially if it was somewhat feminine, like a pink polo shirt or a narrow cut, very textured white button down, or pants with a fabulously rich textile (one of my favourite designer window shopping buddies is a guy who is DEFINITELY NOT interested in dressing in dresses, lol!)
I see this as different from crossdressing, because most crossdressers I have met on here (as well as my partner) seem to fall in to one of two broad, sweeping 'categories': part time male, part time female and never the twain shall meet unless it's in panties, or mindful of femininity at least in acquiring clothing and at many times picking outfits. I see the mindful types as still dressing for themselves, perhaps tactilely as Eryn and her wife put it. Metrosexuals always dress for other people as much as/more than for themselves; they're pretty much always 'on show.' Sometimes when Crystal is in male mode, it's very difficult for me to suggest how he should put together his outfits and that one time I found this GORGEOUS (and very fashionable) second hand wonderful pink male dress shirt for him for cheap at a thrift store (it would've fit him perfectly, too!) it got completely rejected. Hmph! There's some proof right there that there isn't necessarily any overlap whatsoever between metrosexual and crossdresser!
Works for me!
Easy. It becomes crossdressing when you wear clothes of the opposite gender in order to LOOK like a member of the opposite gender. Otherwise you're just what they used to refer to as a 'dandy' if you were MtF, or a tomboy if you were FtM.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Silly girl, whatever next !!
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Metrosexual stops when you stop trying to present as a male. I don't think I own one pair of jeans from the men's department. It's not because I only want to wear women's clothes....they're just more comfortable...and cheaper. So if you came across me and saw me wearing some tight jeans with a really cute button down top (guys) would you immediately label me as TG? Women get a wonderful thing called stretchy denim....<3 <3 <3! Then again you'd probably revise your opinion yet again once you noticed the cute nails and make-up lol. Personally I think more guys should take an interest in self grooming and their appearance. it just might be a good thing!
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