Day 2, not much better. Will it end?

[britney1]

Ok, day 2, things start to get better right? Wrong. Although my wife did sit down to talk to me, we are right back where we were last night. She went and saw a pshchyiatrist (councelor) after work today. He said he did not have expertise in this are (gender issues) and said he didn't know of anyone in town who did. I live in a community of abou 85,000 people, but according to him, know one in town deals with these issues. My thinks I am just confused. She has made comments like "I will not accept this, it is morally wrong" and "any women who accept this kind of behavior from thier husbands, are just as messed up as the crossdresser himself" WOW! Think I have a chance here? I did follow everyone's advice and didn't get defensive. But she kept coming back, "you don't see anything wrong here" She also thinks this is something that I have choosen to "indulge" in and therefor is a sin. In her mind it's ok to think feminine, but not to act feminine. "your a man" she kept repeating over and over. Another concern she has is Ok, so you start with just dressing in the house, and then it becomes an everyday thing, and what about when we want to start having children? How are you going to explain it to them? I said I wouldn't. She said, No, I will have to explain that your dad is sick when your daughter comes out of the bedroom with daddy's wig.

As of right now, it seems the only solution is to not dress at all. I said I won't dress in front of you, and she said, well then it's just another big secret then.

WHAT A MESS! I did what everyone said and didn't get defensive. I just listened to her. Tried to answer her questions the best I could. She refused to read anything regarding the subject because that is just propaganda to justify my "illness".

As always, I still need your advice and help.

[jo_ann]

you don't see anything wrong here

Nope, ask her to come in here and see how many men do the same thing

what about when we want to start having children?

If she's so close minded and won't even try to understand, you should probably hold off on children

I'll never understand how some women can't understand this lifestyle when they crossdress all the time (or is your wife the type that wears a dress to go bowling?), so she wouldn't understand since she never crossdresses?

[Wendy me]

girlfreind it is so her right now and for some time to come to vent be hurt and feel the way she is feeling the pshchyiatrist (councelor) thing is not a bad idear at all .. see a lot of times it helpes to have some one else involved in your talking and yes you may never have her on board with your cding ... but if you do get to counceling it's a step that just might save your marrage... be strong and if you can answer her questions .. but rember some questions she asks well you cant give a right answer to your wrong eather way ...hang in there rember this is not just something small droped on her ....

[Melissa Ryan]

I wish that I had something brilliant to say to you, but I am at a loss. I am sorry, good luck and take care of the two of you.

[MsEva]

Oh, hi Brittany,
So sorry to hear that things haven't gotten any better, but this is a big thing...I know it took my dear wife a loooooooooooong time to come to terms with it..and truthfully she is a trooper, but I am not sure she really understands it. I am not sure if I do! This is not going to be a sprint..this is going to be a long marathon run. This site is great for us girls ...we finally have a chance to see that we are not alone..that there are functioning people with the same issues we face..your dear wife needs to know that she is not alone too. A counselor is a good start. It would be helpful if she were acceptable to doing research into the problem. My wife bought a sort of clinical book on crossdressing and read it..she was not too happy to find that the urge for us to me ourselves won't repeat won't go away. But she was happy to see that most of us are heteor...we are not apt to leave her for another..and most of us are the guy next door, normally functioning people..albiet ones with more fashion sense. Please hang in there. Time will most likely heal the scars.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

Time for introspection and less sugar coating.

"I will not accept this, it is morally wrong" and "any women who accept this kind of behavior from thier husbands, are just as messed up as the crossdresser himself" WOW! Think I have a chance here?

Not as long as reason is fails to present itself.

She also thinks this is something that I have choosen to "indulge" in and therefor is a sin. In her mind it's ok to think feminine, but not to act feminine. "your a man" she kept repeating over and over.

Sin is not up for interpretation.
What is a man?
That is to be interpreted. Tell her what a man is.

As of right now, it seems the only solution is to not dress at all. I said I won't dress in front of you, and she said, well then it's just another big secret then.

The secret is out. It's up to her to accept it as truth.

I just listened to her. Tried to answer her questions the best I could. She refused to read anything regarding the subject because that is just propaganda to justify my "illness".

Time to for her to do the listening.
You have to show her how much cross dressing means nothing at all.
For anyone reading this, disagreeing, be quiet. Clothes mean nothing and I have said this over and over.
What's important is found in action and inaction as it pertains to the comfortability of others.
Attitude.
You go out of your way for others, namely her, right?
You do your manly "duties", hold a job, provide at least half of the upkeep?

Show her that man she is so eager to see that he is still there for her, take her and show her that topic at hand don't piddle around please with a cherry on top.
You need to get some points across.
1) Most people crossdress at some point. 90% of women do it all the time. According to "traditional" women's (lack of) logic all people with a penis wear pants, all people with a vagina wear skirts.

2) She has known you for x number of [unit of time]. That person she knew still exists and in the same way as for that amount of time. Ask her what is different. Nothing is other than she thinks you are mentally ill.

3) Mental illnesses are solved with pills (much to my dismay). Tell her this: until a pill is introduced that "cures" crossdressing, it isn't an illness. Period. It's all attitude and deep down personality.

For the single readers, do yourself a favor and don't get into a relationship without going over this hurdle.

[britney1]

I agree with going to counceling but the problem today was that since this quack didn't deal with it and didn't know of anyone who did, it made me out to be an even bigger freak. It actually had negative results. It reinforced my wifes thinking that I am "not normal". Thanks a lot shrink.

[MsEva]

Gosh Brit...I wish I knew an answer here...again it will take time..you know you are in my thoughts and prayers...

[Star]

britney,
i'm sorry for you...and your wife. I don't think having her come here is going to help sis....
love

[KatieZ]

Listing of Professional Counsellors

This is a listing of Professional Counselors reportedly doing work with and for Transgendered persons. Compuserve and Genderline make no representations as to their abilities or qualifications. If you have a negative experience with any of the counselors listed below, or would like to make an addition of others you have found helpful to this listing...please contact me via email. This file was prepared largely from information obtained from Feminet B1028

ERIC APPLEGATE, MS 1010 East 86th St 34 Winterton - 1030 bldg Indianapolis IN 46240

LINDA DANIELLE GREENE 5011 Brandywine Dr. #1007 Indianapolis IN 46241

PAMPHLET FILE LIBRARIAN Goshen Public Library 601 South Fifth St Goshen IN 46526

MICHAEL SMITH 108 E Vermilya Ave Bloomington IN 47401

JUNE M. REINISCH, PH.D. The Kinsey Institute 416 Morrison Hall, Ind. U Bloomington IN 47405

complete link is here:
http://www.genderweb.org/medical/docs/cssource.html

[KatieZ]

Here is a more comprehensive list of therepists throughout Indiana. You can call first and find out their expertise in dealing with gender issues. Your wife surely would have to at least concede to talk to one that does know something, being the one she went to admitted to not having any knowledge in that field.

http://therapists.psychologytoday.co...html?iorb=4764

[MsEva]

Johnny on the spot there Katie...nice to know there are trained professionals out there

[KatieZ]

One other thing. Women are not prone to keep something like this bottled up. I would bet that she has by now at least talked to her Mother about this, and possibly other family members. News like this travels fast once it is out, so be prepared to find out your secret is no longer secret. At least that was my experience when it happened to me.

[MsEva]

To back up what Katie said..she is right...women need to talk about their problems..IMO..my dear wife confided in her twin sister...in some ways she was really cool about it.but this is a bit of contention..you see her twin sister is a lesbian..I think my dressing hit a bit too close to home for her..at any rate her sister wanted to see some pictures of me dressed. My dear wife asked me to send her some..so I did..she thought I looked cute..but was concerned that I wanted to go all the way for SRS..me..a total woman..hardly...I know who I am.. I think..my fem side is just a part of me..it doesn't define me

[Sophia Rearen]

Britney,
We have come to know you a bit since you became a member and of course we feel your pain as crossdressers. Can you help us out here? And I'm not being cynical, what is it that you love about your wife? Help us understand you and your wife.

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Britney,

It looks like you're going to have to stay in your foxhole for a while, at least until you find the right person to talk about this with.

She tells you to be a man? I told myself that a thousand times or so, the problem being that I'm not a man, so that didn't work to well. Wish I had a cure for your problem, but I don't. As always, I'm here for you if you need me, pm me anytime.

GypsyKaren

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

cding is something u cant just stop doing no matter how hard u think u can try ,,,,if she is dead set on NOT wanting to understand then ur just gona have to say "SEE YA" and move on with ur life...


this is one of the many reasons why i showed my wife the first week we met that i crossdress,,,,so if she had a problem with it then nothing is lost except some time.........


on a side note.... whos to say whats normal?????

its not up to any one person to deside whats right or wrong for anyone, as long as ur not breaking any laws

[Darlene.]

Hi Britney,

I can guarantee you if you don't get this straightened out between you before you have children you will go on to regret the day you decided to stay in the marriage,

Second you might want to reevaluate your reasons for wanting the relationship to continue.

Having said that I wish you well.

[Laurie Ann]

Britney,

I am sorry things are not currently working out between the two of you. I wish I had a bit of magic to offer that would make this all end up positively. I am struggling with the issue of telling my wife but am deathly afraid of her reaction. I believe in the power of prayer and I constantly do that seeking guidance. I want you to know that you and your wife are in my thoughts and prayers. I trust that things will be better for you both as you continue to talk this out and always show the love for each other which led you both to marry. I have no profound thoughts or answers only prayer and good wishes.

Love Laurie

[Ava Mouse]

Britney,

Wow, that's sad.. but what about unconditional love? Does she love an image of a perfect man? i.e. Is any man she could've married without a sin/weakness of some sort?

Would she be happier with a man who's sin is a socially acceptable one, like being macho, or an alcholic or gambler?

Funny how some sins are socially acceptable, but others unforgiveable? I think that's what you're struggling with...

My marriage is fantastic, because I do not hold my wife to ideal stereotypes. I allow her to be masculine or un-feminine sometimes. I encourage her to learn how to change tires, or use tools, etc. And that's part of the give & take.

If she's not forgiving or willing to love an imperfect man, then, she will never be happy with any man...

Just my 2c...

[britney1]

Thanks again for all your support.

My wife went out with her best female friend tonight to a bar. Although through all of this, I had packed Britney away, I could not resist the temptation to get dressed tonight while she is away. I unpacked her for a little bit and dressed up. I am her sober ride home so I should be ok with her coming home early. I feel such a relief being dressed right now. It has made me forget all the heartache. Although I do feel guilty right now.

But the question has entered my mind. Is crossdressing as important to me as the love I have for her? I mean is it worth losing her? Are there other ways to express my feminine side without dressing? Relationships are all about give and take right? Is this one battle I won't win? Is that my compromise? The questions keep running through my mind.

[Dana]

I've been down this merry road ~ twice!!! Its wasn't fun and it wasn't pretty. The first time was with my first and only wife, and the second was with the GG I rebounded into after my marriage failed.

Since, then I've not been in a relationship going on the last eight years ~ by choice.

At the time, I was in a senstive career position with the government ~ and the fact that I was a cross dresser ~ was the last thing I needed to brought to the forefront ~ it not only would have cost me my carrer. but had legal raminfications ~ which could unlclude severe punitative action.

One of the first things that you need to recognize is that you're up against at least 5,000 years of socialization, culturalization, etc, added on top of your wife's own personal socialization, culturalization and condintioning as to what a man is, and isn't, what a woman is and isn't. Add to this the teachings of Judeo~Christian religion, and to round it out rather nicely ~ your wifes own personal perceptions of likes, dislikes, turn-on's and turn-offs when it comes to men.

Obviously, you've got somethings going for you ~ that she likes and even admires about you, afterall she married you ~ and for the time being is willing to stay in the marriage.

There's really nothing you can go, about your wife's perceptions, attitudes, and believes about crossdresser ~she's aleady told you that she thinks its pervert, sick, abnormal, homosexual, freakish. Those come from core values, and are not likely to change in the near forseeable future, if indeed ever?

So what you're left with is yourself, and ultimatemly it comes down to this:

"What are YOU going to do about it?"

There are a number of things that you can and can't do~! I want go into listing what you have no control over. Which goes hand in hand with there's no need for you to worry about the decisions of a another person, nor about things you have no control over ~ which is what you're doing.

The following are just raw statistical data, which does not factor crossdressing into the equation:

FACT: Have of all first time marriages, end in divorce.

FACT: Of the the half of first time marriages that don't end in divorce ~ only 13% report that they're happliy married. Of the remainder, ~ they're basically living in a "martial comma" staying together for the sake of the children, finances, the status quo, what have you. They're married ~ but they're NOT happy!

FACT: The divorce rate for men who marry under the age of 25 is 90%!

FACT: The divorce rate for men who marry because they got the woman pregnant is 90%

FACT: 90% of all divorce petitions are filed by women!

The matter at hand is this: Which is more important to you? You wife, your marriage, or crossdressing? If its crossdressing, then you and the wife from what you have described ~ have what is probally called ill-reconcilable differences ~ the most common ground for filing for divorce. If such is the case ~ get out, and get out now!

This woman cannot get this concept wrapped around her head, in her head, nor through her head~! Not today, not tomorrow, not next month, not next year! She didn't go to see the counselor to validate YOUR feelings, she went to see the counselor to validate HER feelings ~ which he more or less did!

If on the other hand, you find that she means that much to you, then you're going to have to find a way to eradicate crossdressing from you're day to day life, and mean compeltely. At least the physical act of it! Mentally, emotionally, you never will. It will be a part of you for the rest of your life! Simply, because its a part of who you are ~ and you're right ~ either way you're screwed!

She's already has clearly stated that she's un-willing to give an inch on this issue.

You're young, these are the best years of your life! I promise you, you stay with this woman, and never cross dress ever again in your life ~ she's going to use this against you. She's going to perpetually, and neverending throw it up in your face ~ regardless of what the disagreement is about.

If you think this is painfull, invest the best years of your life, have children, spend 10,15,20 years with this woman ~ and then go through it!

The best thing that you can do ~ is pick up, pack up, and get out, and get out NOW! Start over! But, the next time you get involved with a woman ~ be straight up honest with her about who and what you are! Early enough on to where she won't be hurt. They're out here! I know! I'm holding no less than three off at arms' length at present.

As you leave, do not bring up the "issue", just simply tell her, "I have issues! You have issues! We have issues in this marriage! You're incapable of rationally discussing any of them in a rational manner and without emotion. I'm obviously not the man you thought I was, want, nor need! I believe the best thing to take place here, is for me to leave! I love you, I will always love you! Should you, decide that you want to work with me to save this relationship, this marriage, this is where I will be, and how you can get in contract with me! I want this relationship! I need this relationship! I want and need you! I love you, not because I need you, I NEED you because I love you and you're the only woman I love" And, then shut up and leave!

The key part here is to shut up! Don't say another word! NOTHING! Zilch!

One of two things will happen. She'll come around to where you and her can rationally discuss it, and you and she can find a counselor to help you work throught the EMOTIONS of this and all the other issues of your marraige, or she'll move on with her life! If she chooses the later, you'll be better off in the long run!

She may have already made the decision to leave you, and may have already left you in her heart and mind, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. If she has, and she's still with you, its only because she's working out the logistics of it all! Either that, or wanting for the next guy to come along ~ that she can leave you for! If you think you're in pain now, ~ wait for that to happen!

Far, far better that you be the one that leaves ~ as painful and as hard as that may be ~ than to be the one left behind! You think you've experience guilt for being a cross dresser before, ~ you have no idea!

So, from my experience ~ the best thing is to go ahead and deliver the pre-emptive strike, and get what you fear most over with! As I said, one of two things will happen ~ either she'll come around, and at least be willing to work out a compromise ~ or she'll move on with her life.

You know what? She's already made her decision! And, even she doesn't know it!

[britney1]

Although I greatly appreciate your support in helping me with this situation, I have to respectfully disagree with you. Nothing in my life is more important than my marriage. NOTHING! I will have to find a way to deal with this if she can not accept or tolerate it. But leaving is not in the picture. I don't know about you, but I took vows to uphold the institution of marriage for better or worse. Right now is obviously the worst part, but there will be better. We communicate well together and that's one of the main reasons I married her. Thank you for your opinions. I really do appreciate it. But when I said I do till death do us part, I didn't have my fingers or toes crossed, and I truely belive that she feels the same way.

[Dana]

I understand! And, I commend you for that! I really do! I was speaking from my experience, devoid of emotion. I'm not the one that has made the mental and EMOTIONAL investment into this relationship that you have ~ I'm outside looking in, you see.

And, I'm glad that I got a "rise" out of you ~ so to speak! Not that I did it for my own sadistic purpoese~ and it truly was not my intent to inflicit more pain and suffering than your current situation! Its speaks VOLUMES of your committment to your wife ~ of your devotion ~ of your LOVE for and of her!

But, my post accomplished this much ~ leaving is DEFINATELY out of the question! RIGHT?

Good! We're moving forward!

So to defined the delimina, she can't live with crossdressing ~ and you can't live without it! Its that not correct?

[Dana]

Have you read this thread?