Are you promoting the sterotypes.. right here in River City?

[Maria2004]

Actually that wasn't the real question...

There was no real question to begin with, how much intelligence does it
take to realize if you are real, you're real. "Sapere aude" o_O

[Badtranny]

I think that attempting to educate the public is our job, and would serve us well even if it's one person at a time in one thread at a time.

Gosh Kellz, I'm totally crushing on you right now!

[kellycan27]

I think that is getting away from the point of your original question but I will answer that too. Whether they would or not is going to vary from person to person. But the fact that they fantasize about it could be relevant and an honest portrayal of the subject of crossdressing. Even if it is a minority subsection of it. Like for example many CDs might fantasize about wearing a wedding dress. A thread..."Do you ever fantasize about wearing a wedding dress" is relevant to the subject, it is honest, if it gets a lot of answers may reassure someone that they are not alone in their thoughts. If someone posts "Have you ever thought about dressing up as a woman and robbing a bank" then (hopefully) the answers will show that this isn't very common so people will be educated accordingly.
And no, I suppose no-one can tell if the person asking the question is wanting reassurance, is going to try it for real, or just amusing themselves. However a fantasy is an unfullfilled desire after all. What stops people fullfilling them is guilt, lack of opportunity and the law.

ok... thank you for your opinion.

[BlondeFarrah]

I would like to know how many cds started dressing up without any fantasy relationed with some female stereotype.

[Pythos]

I put on my first feminine items with absolutely no fantasies, I just was curious how the stuff felt to wear. For the most part I don't fantasize about some fem model, except perhaps Abby Schuito, or Seleen from UnderWorld. :P Now that does not mean my styles have no models they are based off of. Ironically many are based off male Japanese music artists. LOL

[Loretta]

"guest" is so formal.
I call them "Lurkers".

[LeaP]

They probably do promote stereotypes for some. I get concerned when I see some of the fantasy threads, thinking of the conclusions that might be drawn. I was concerned enough to take a significant amount of time before joining the site. As I said in my intro - things are pretty mainline here (meaning non-sexualized) - but though there is less than other sites, there was enough to give me pause. I'm just not interested in that sort of content. In the end I decided it was a distraction at the margins as there's nothing explicit and fantasy content doesn't come remotely close to being predominant. There's lots of grey to consider when it comes to appropriate content, given the range of TG identity and expression, but that's what moderators are for. And, of course, I represent only one set of trans dimensions, choices, and views out of many possible.

Lea

[StarrOfDelite]

Taken in its entirety, this forum is so Vanilla that I cannot imagine any hard core ****** coming here to get his jollies, not unless he's entirely ignorant about the existence of Literotica and Fictionmania with their thousands of graphic fantasies about Submissives and Dommes, Forced Transformations, Jailhouse rapes, Blushing Transgendered Brides, et cetera.

I personally don't pay any attention to the fantasy threads, but I think they have their uses, particularly if they cause people to start analyzing why they have those fantasies in context with their need to crossdress. If the prose used to describe the fantasy is within the limits of good taste, then I think such fantasies are part of the crossdressing experience to many sincere members of this forum. I am skeptical the average GG SO or family member is going to be horrified by such fantasies, anyway, it's not a sine qua non that one has to be a crossdresser in order to have kinky sexual daydreams.

edit p.s. I can't believe the computer was programmed to delete "W*nk*r" but it does prove my point that it's pretty hard to write anything which would appeal to a real pervert on the forum.

[StarrOfDelite]

I think your reply is very interesting. I had never before thought of Goths as being a repressed and vilified minority, but I can see your point. I remember a situation with which I dealt peripherally several years ago when the mother of a student filed a grievance because she felt her son was being singled out for punishment by a school principal, and remember thinking based on a cursory reading of the facts that she had a pretty good case.

Since we're speaking of stereotypes, can I ask you how you feel about the character Abby Sciutto on NCIS? Without doing any research I'd be willing to bet that she is adored by most of America, but that doesn't mean that she's adored by he real life Goth community.

I in no way think those fantasy threads do anything positive toward the image of CDers. At the same time the threads concerning fake body parts, or other items that "realistically function" (eeeek), do all that great for us.

I am certainly one that believes images can be tarnished by a few. I am a living example of it.

Before Tuesday, April 20, 1999, my subculture was connected (wrongly) with dark brooding, depressed kids, that all wore black, and possibly were connected with devil worship (toddle).

Then after that date, my subculture, which was never as strong as say the hip hoppers, rappers, and gang banger cultures, was forever tarnished with a completely undeserved lable, thanks to two kids who only LOOKED, goth.

That label applied to us was "murder" "terrorist", and so on. It was completely wrong, and many of us dived for saftey into the world of conformity. Some of us were beaten, on of us litterally to a pulp. Why? Because two screwed up kids, who were not connected to the Goth subculture except in their clothing, decided to exact revenge upon their classmates.

What really damaged the subculture, was complete and utter ignorance on the part of the police and media (both of which 10 years after the event, APOLOGIZED for not correctly identifying those two as NEO NAZIS (one had red laces in his boots, which is a neo nazi symbol...as were the multiple Swastikas carved into the coffee table of the ever so proper parents, that were oblivious of the arsenal forming in their garage.)

The apology fell on deaf ears, most likely due to the timing of the airing of said apology.

Evidence of the damage to my subculture is still evident. My mother is a prime example. She accused me of being in a group that goes around shooting schools, and bombing kids. If one actually did their research they would see the only violent act that was enough to generate a police report directly relating Goths IS the Columbine incident. Gang bangers, hip hoppers, and thugs are perfectly able to be out and about as they are, whereas Goths are still looked down upon.

People like my mother, who do not actually do research on stuff, are the type that perpetuate inaccurate myths about groups of people. She would look at some of the threads here, and not even pay attention to what I have posted, and my responses, and proceed to accuse me of wanting those same fantasies.

Some people are truly ignorant. Adding more ammo for their ignorance only hurts.

[3bugs]

We have all seen the fantasy threads. I want to be treated as a woman, or I fantasize about having sex with another man.. when I am en femme. The members get it, but lest we forget that "guests" have access to viewing the threads here in the m2f cross dressing section. Are these fantasy threads helping to promote the stereotypical way that the gp views cross dressers? I am not suggesting that these fantasy threads NOT be posted, just a thought with regards to their repercussions.

Kel

In my opinion, they do promote stereotypes. They also undermine the "cross-dressers are heterosexual men, we aren't sure why they dress, but it has nothing to do with sex!" message spouted in much of the literature written for the wives of cross-dressers.

[ReineD]

I am skeptical the average GG SO or family member is going to be horrified by such fantasies

You'd be surprised!

The fantasy threads are mild in themselves, but when a wife reads them and transposes her husband's voice, they take on a whole new meaning.

[Aprilrain]

[QUOTE=3bugs;. They also undermine the "cross-dressers are heterosexual men, we aren't sure why they dress, but it has nothing to do with sex!" message spouted in much of the literature written for the wives of cross-dressers.[/QUOTE]

this made me laugh, how true!

[Pythos]

Since we're speaking of stereotypes, can I ask you how you feel about the character Abby Sciutto on NCIS? Without doing any research I'd be willing to bet that she is adored by most of America, but that doesn't mean that she's adored by he real life Goth community.

As with most things Abbey is approached in many ways. There are those that absolutely hate her character due to how perky she is. These people are usually the type that are miserable in their lives any ways, with my experience.

Abby falls into the category (if there are any) of Perky Goth, they do exist, I can be counted as one.

Overall, Abbey is very well accepted and adored in the goth comunity, for those that watch NCIS. A lot of Goths do not watch television for the most part so many don't even know who she, or Gibbs, or Dinozzo, McGee, or Ziva (as can be seen, I do indeed watch the show, and not just for the mistress of pharensics).

[Kaitlyn Michele]

In my opinion, they do promote stereotypes. They also undermine the "cross-dressers are heterosexual men, we aren't sure why they dress, but it has nothing to do with sex!" message spouted in much of the literature written for the wives of cross-dressers.

It undermines that message because the message is not true..

pythos.. i never truly considered how the goth culture was smeared by those events... i'm sorry

i never felt that way btw...but your point illustrates something that all minorities deal with...small subsets of a group and misinformation can result in easy to digest, wrong, and hurtful stereotypes...

the only thing i've ever blamed goth subculture for was ugly clothes...... yes that was a devil hug...

[ReineD]

It undermines that message because the message is not true..

It's not true they are hetero, or it's not true they dress for sexual gratification?

Have you seen this thread? Five pages of hetero CDs. They can't all be lying. Whether or not it is still sexual is, I think, a function of length of time dressed and also age.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

It's not true they are hetero, or it's not true they dress for sexual gratification?

Have you seen this thread? Five pages of hetero CDs. They can't all be lying. Whether or not it is still sexual is, I think, a function of length of time dressed and also age.

It's not true that there is no sexual component to crossdressing...sorry for confusion...

i understand this is a general statement, and there are people that say there is no sexual component even to the dressing part..

[Starling]

Thanks for starting this thread, Kel. I'm not sure how reading the more graphic and personal posts might affect the general public. I'm sure some are here for jollies, and some come to reinforce their fear and hatred; but I like to think most of them come hoping for accurate information and greater self-knowledge. I am a dreamer...

Lallie

[Mikaela]

My opinion is that I don't like seeing them as it just furthers my own shame at what I am because it is these perceptions that have driven us into the closets we live in. I wouldn't take them away for the people that 'need' them, but I could do with a re-org of the forums/subforums to separate things. Panty color, fake latex vaginas, fantasies with men, etc are neither interesting to me or helpful to the guests or people stumbling here looking for support or who want to give us the opportunity to not be perverts. It obviously makes no difference for those coming here to be titillated or who are already close minded.

And might I remind people that if you are wearing blinders because other sites show more (like Flickr), keep in mind that most porn is of a different nature than us. If that is all it would take, I would not have seen a pervert pull his junk out at the club last weekend and try to touch a ts girl between the legs (she had on jeans). We dont need to be naked or in lingerie to turn someone on.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

My opinion is that I don't like seeing them as it just furthers my own shame at what I am because it is these perceptions that have driven us into the closets we live in. I wouldn't take them away for the people that 'need' them, but I could do with a re-org of the forums/subforums to separate things. Panty color, fake latex vaginas, fantasies with men, etc are neither interesting to me or helpful to the guests or people stumbling here looking for support or who want to give us the opportunity to not be perverts. It obviously makes no difference for those coming here to be titillated or who are already close minded.

And might I remind people that if you are wearing blinders because other sites show more (like Flickr), keep in mind that most porn is of a different nature than us. If that is all it would take, I would not have seen a pervert pull his junk out at the club last weekend and try to touch a ts girl between the legs (she had on jeans). We dont need to be naked or in lingerie to turn someone on.

i can't help but comment that on another thread you go on about how you relate more to transsexuals, but that you avoid some because they have an attitude that they are better than you... which is the same attitude you exhibit towards crossdressers that don't share you "need" for more full feminization... you are doing the same thing those transsexuals are doing..... panty color is uninteresting to you, yet you are "into" blue wigs...hmmm

[Aprilrain]

It's not true they are hetero, or it's not true they dress for sexual gratification?

Have you seen this thread? Five pages of hetero CDs. They can't all be lying. Whether or not it is still sexual is, I think, a function of length of time dressed and also age.

No it's not likely that they are ALL lieing but most definitely some are. It's very difficult "being a man" and all that implys AND having these feminine thoughts and feelings, it's a dichotomy that most CDers struggle with. To then also even allow that maybe you think about what it would be like to be a girl with a guy is WAY beyond to much to handle. I was very homophobic before I started to transition. It was a defense mechanism, albeit an ill conceived and ineffective one but it was the best I could do.

[Mikaela]

i can't help but comment...

Sure you can refrain. I stated an opinion that those things are not helpful to me or necessarily positive for an impression to a public that already marginalizes us. You don't agree with my opinion (fine, I'm not debating it), so you imply I'm a hypocrite for an unrelated opinion to undermine this one? Lame.

that on another thread you go on about how you relate more to transsexuals, but that you avoid some because they have an attitude that they are better than you...

True, still unrelated to the thread....

which is the same attitude you exhibit towards crossdressers that don't share you "need" for more full feminization... you are doing the same thing those transsexuals are doing.....

I fully admitted in that thread that it was a bias I was aware of and I don't have a problem with fetishists as people- I have several friends at club who are. It's not that I'm better, it's just not totally compatible with my needs as a CD or a more normal potential mainstream interaction in girl mode, but that's not the point of this thread or opinion! It also doesn't affect my interaction with them in the context of the night club or on here, so what does it matter?

I don't have a need for full feminization. I want my femme self to be as good as possible, but that won't come with hormones, surgery, or anything else that some get. Other than breast forms, which are now smaller, I don't wear any pads or shapers, either. It doesn't make me better, it just makes me me. Sorry I want to present as a female and not as a man in a dress. I'm sure there is no one else on here that feels the same way </sarcasm>

panty color is uninteresting to you, yet you are "into" blue wigs...hmmm

I don't fetishize what I do. Changing my brain mode to be female and go out is not sexual for me, so no, underwear conversations are not my cup of tea. I might match my panties to my bra, but for me, my panties are for being under my clothes, holding in my stuff, and other reasons of propriety, not because they go in my butt crack, are frilly or silky, or whatever.

Not sure where the idea that I am into blue wigs thing came from. I've worn yellow/pink glow extensions for a black light club in which I was about as below the radar as possible all things considering. I wore a pink wig one night when the club closed (so while drunk) at the behest of my g/f who had picked it up from the club hostess, who had borrowed it from the SO for a Pink Event a week prior (whew). I wore the pink wig in the pic in my wall thread when she did my makeup one night because I was in a pink tshirt, but that wasn't for going out. So... not sure where blue wigs and being "into them" came from. Generally speaking, my appearance is looking like a soccer mom.

And again, even if I was into blue wigs, so? In the context of this thread, I'm not making threads about them or promoting colored hair (oh no!) for cross dressers to make us look bad since that is not part of the negative stereotype. My girlfriend has bright magenta/cranberry colored hair every day, so what does that mean? hmmmm!?!

[LeaP]

My opinion is that I don't like seeing them as it just furthers my own shame at what I am because it is these perceptions that have driven us into the closets we live in. I wouldn't take them away for the people that 'need' them, but I could do with a re-org of the forums/subforums to separate things.

I agree completely.

Lea

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i knew you wouldnt like it mikaela...i am ok having a pointed discussion in an honest way.. i am just saying what i feel as well..
your earlier comment popped into my head as i followed this thread....

your last sentence shows the rabbit hole...lots of people actually would feel wearing magenta hair somehow promotes a bad stereotype...conformity is cherished by a large portion of our society.. but both you and I would agree that is just silly..magenta hair looks cool... but lots of people would look down on you for it, and make assumptions about you for it..(similar to a goth perhaps, or giant piercings, or a mohawk)... they look down on you for it..

in the context of this thread...where there is a question about "certain" posts adding to stereotypes
by separating yourself out from someone that is into fetishes... you are just doing to the same thing as the jerk that looks down on someone for having crazy hair.... by saying THEIR appearance/comments/thoughts somehow make people look down on you more, you are pointing a finger at THEM, and showing your disapproval .. you are separating out your behaviour, saying i'm not like them, so don't disapprove of ME because of THEM....you can't get around this by saying you admit your bias...your bias IS the issue..

and this s the same thing you complained TS people do in another thread...perhaps that comment in another thread popped into my head.. and as i've read this thread frankly it really bugs me that there is this whole group of "acceptable" crossdressers basically crapping all over the "unacceptable" crossdressers... and i have seen tons of crossdressers whine about feeling there is some kind of pecking order and feeling dissed by transsexuals... (btw i'm not denying this happens...but i don't like that either)

[TxKimberly]

My first thought is "Now hold on, Kelly cant be old enough to get the reference "right here in River City!"
Now trying to move beyond that little bit of surprise and on to the actual substance of your post . . . .
There are so many people on this forum that you will probably find someone here that likes just about anything. Some people are going to like things that disgust others and some folks are going to like things that make the rest of us go "What the hell is with THAT?!" Since the forum IS a support forum and is open to all, it's just something that you have to accept with a grain of salt.

[MsJanessa]

There are two types of threads that don't interest me--the first are the so-called panty threads (What color are your favorite panties and that type of thing) and the second are the so-called sexual fantasy threads---don't get me wrong--I certainly am not offended by them, just find them a trifle boring---now I do find real live stories about encounters very interesting--but make believe? No