What am I and How can I make my wife happy?

[TGMarla]

The problem here is obvious. Your wife isn't down with the crossdressing. Mine doesn't much like it either, but we've found that if I keep it away from her, she can deal with it. She knows I'm not going to run off and have a sex change, and that I'm not interested in gay relationships. She knows I'm true to her, and that I love her and I want to stay her husband.

But I don't wear "light makeup" in front of her, or put false nails on around her, or underdress on a daily basis. These things may have become habitual to you, but they are absolutely not necessary to me as an outlet for my feminine qualities. My wife is very important to me, and so I remain her man whenever she's around. And this isn't some dishwater version of her man, it's the whole enchilada. When she's away, I often engage in complete crossdressing where I'm nearly indistinguishable from a woman (at least at first glance). But when she's home, and whenever we're together, the femme stuff goes away, and I devote myself to her as her husband.

I'm no expert here, but if you want your marriage back, then you need to commit to the marriage, and be the man she wanted in the first place. You'll likely always crossdress, but if you want her to commit, then you need to also. That means no more underdressing, no more "light makeup" when she's around, no more tweezing your eyebrows (within reason), and no more false nails when you two go out somewhere.

Put yourself in her shoes.....and no, I don't mean her high heels. Try to see things from her perspective. If you cannot be that man for her, then why the heck should she stick around? Sure, it takes two to tango, but this is more on you than it is on her. I'm guessing that your point of view is that "she just doesn't understand.....!" That's right. She doesn't. And it's not incumbent upon her to suddenly see the light. She married a man, and that was the bargain she made. You're not holding up your end of the deal, and you're trying to change the rules on the fly.

My advice to you, much as you may not want to hear it, is to man up, put the girly stuff away, and only use it when you have the opportunity to crossdress in private. The rest of the time, you owe it to your wife to be her man, not her wife.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Keri, I think that a therapist will say what one side wants to hear and not the other side
that was the way it happened to my wife and I .
One of them said what i liked and another what my liked.

Crossdressing is like the Mafia you cant just quit.

Orchid

[Kittyagain]

Put yourself in her shoes. She says she is ready for church. You look at her and she has on male clothes, a makeup applied beard, she has shaved her head and something that is obvious to the world, stuck in her pants. Put this vision in your mind and ask what you would think and do.

You two get together and find a compromise. Save your marriage and yourself if you can.

Kitty

[Kaitlyn26]

Put yourself in her shoes. She says she is ready for church. You look at her and she has on male clothes, a makeup applied beard, she has shaved her head and something, that is obvious to the world, stuck in her pants. Put this vision in your mind and ask what you would think and do.

You two get together and find a compromise. Save your marriage and yourself if you can.

Kitty

Judging by the information about her given here, you shut your mouth and smile, and you get your butt to church. Sorry, but this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship anymore, and certainly not one of equal status.

The op has made many concessions for her, and she still isn't happy. Tyrant wife needs to be tyrant ex-wife.

[bomba]

this is all so depressing. and i see a trend here in my own marriage.i believe im going to stand down on the dressing for a while as i dont want to put my kids through a devorse under those circumstances. im signing off and wont be back. thanks to you all you good people though.your stories and insites have been very enjoyable.i will miss u all.

[NicoleScott]

Marla nailed it. The OP knows what the wife is willing to tolerate but crosses the line. The line appears to be keeping the girly activities private, and her man presenting as a man in public.
My wife tolerates my crossdressing, and I can even dress in front of her, although I prefer privacy. But she is very sensitive about others knowing, so to keep the peace and the good deal I have, I keep it private. I know I could expect trouble if I started letting others see that my body was becoming feminized. I DO shave my body (arms, legs, chest...all) but only in winter time after shorts get put away for the season. And let it grow back before wearing shorts again.
The only thing I can think of as a reason the OP pushes the boundaries (besides being a knucklehead - no offense intended) is an internal feminine identity that can't be contained. If so, the wife doesn't want a girly man and the marriage is in trouble.
So, does Keri want to be a husband to a wife who wants a man, or be a person with the freedom to express a feminine side unfettered? Time to choose and take appropriate action.

[Kaitlyn26]

Marla nailed it. The OP knows what the wife is willing to tolerate but crosses the line. The line appears to be keeping the girly activities private, and her man presenting as a man in public.
My wife tolerates my crossdressing, and I can even dress in front of her, although I prefer privacy. But she is very sensitive about others knowing, so to keep the peace and the good deal I have, I keep it private. I know I could expect trouble if I started letting others see that my body was becoming feminized. I DO shave my body (arms, legs, chest...all) but only in winter time after shorts get put away for the season. And let it grow back before wearing shorts again.
The only thing I can think of as a reason the OP pushes the boundaries (besides being a knucklehead - no offense intended) is an internal feminine identity that can't be contained. If so, the wife doesn't want a girly man and the marriage is in trouble.
So, does Keri want to be a husband to a wife who wants a man, or be a person with the freedom to express a feminine side unfettered? Time to choose and take appropriate action.

She does not define the line, herself. Each person needs to clearly state what they can and can't tolerate, if tolerance overlaps then each side needs to give some concession or compromise to the other. Like it or not, a GG that finds out she's married to a crossdresser, even after a long period of time, will need to do things that she is not fond of, if you want a real and equal relationship. If she doesn't want to do that, then she needs to find the door. Which is what it sounds like the op's SO is doing.

Forcing someone entirely into a closet is no form of concession or compromise. It's just selfish.

[Aprilrain]

"What am I and How can I make my wife happy?"

This is going to sound glib but its the truth.
question 1: You are a human being (as far as I can tell from your avatar anyway)
question 2: There is nothing you can do to "MAKE" your wife happy. If she can't BE happy with you as you no amount of you not being you is going to make her happy either if anything it will only make her resent you even more than she already must. There are other fish in the sea and divorce is not the end of the world (though it maybe the end of your finances!)

My guess is she has made her decision. Why love someone who doesn't love you back? "I love you, now change" isn't love at all!

[Debra Russell]

The problem here is obvious. Your wife isn't down with the crossdressing. Mine doesn't much like it either, but we've found that if I keep it away from her, she can deal with it. She knows I'm not going to run off and have a sex change, and that I'm not interested in gay relationships. She knows I'm true to her, and that I love her and I want to stay her husband.

But I don't wear "light makeup" in front of her, or put false nails on around her, or underdress on a daily basis. These things may have become habitual to you, but they are absolutely not necessary to me as an outlet for my feminine qualities. My wife is very important to me, and so I remain her man whenever she's around. And this isn't some dishwater version of her man, it's the whole enchilada. When she's away, I often engage in complete crossdressing where I'm nearly indistinguishable from a woman (at least at first glance). But when she's home, and whenever we're together, the femme stuff goes away, and I devote myself to her as her husband.

I'm no expert here, but if you want your marriage back, then you need to commit to the marriage, and be the man she wanted in the first place. You'll likely always crossdress, but if you want her to commit, then you need to also. That means no more underdressing, no more "light makeup" when she's around, no more tweezing your eyebrows (within reason), and no more false nails when you two go out somewhere.

Put yourself in her shoes.....and no, I don't mean her high heels. Try to see things from her perspective. If you cannot be that man for her, then why the heck should she stick around? Sure, it takes two to tango, but this is more on you than it is on her. I'm guessing that your point of view is that "she just doesn't understand.....!" That's right. She doesn't. And it's not incumbent upon her to suddenly see the light. She married a man, and that was the bargain she made. You're not holding up your end of the deal, and you're trying to change the rules on the fly.

My advice to you, much as you may not want to hear it, is to man up, put the girly stuff away, and only use it when you have the opportunity to crossdress in private. The rest of the time, you owe it to your wife to be her man, not her wife.

Exactly what she said and pay attention it's important if your wife is tolarent but not into your hobbie it's important that she has her man ....................Debra

[Aprilrain]

My wife tolerates my crossdressing, and I can even dress in front of her, although I prefer privacy. But she is very sensitive about others knowing, so to keep the peace and the good deal I have, I keep it private. I know I could expect trouble if I started letting others see that my body was becoming feminized. I DO shave my body (arms, legs, chest...all) but only in winter time after shorts get put away for the season. And let it grow back before wearing shorts again.

This sounds like the rational of a house slave!

If you guys are so MANLY why aren't you setting the boundaries????

[Kerigirl2009]

Thank you for the responses, I have to clarify something here!
First of all I love my wife more then I love Keri but they are both apart of my life
The reason I underdress so often is I do not get any real alone time. Sure I work nights and she works days but when I am home alone I t is bed time for me, This allows me time with my family later in the evening.
I just feel if I do not get some sort of Keri time I will crack and totally out myself in some way that my wife would be upset.
The reason I told her is I was tired of hiding who I really am. And of course making a mistake and letting her find her own conclussions.

My wife and I still get along great minus the intimacy, but we still care for eachother.
I am hoping to have a good talk with her soon and I will be back to update our status.
Oh and one more thing to those that have ripped on my wife- DON'T do it. that just pisses me off. Rip on me as much as you want but don't go there.

[Kaitlyn26]

Thank you for the responses, I have to clarify something here!
First of all I love my wife more then I love Keri but they are both apart of my life
The reason I underdress so often is I do not get any real alone time. Sure I work nights and she works days but when I am home alone I t is bed time for me, This allows me time with my family later in the evening.
I just feel if I do not get some sort of Keri time I will crack and totally out myself in some way that my wife would be upset.
The reason I told her is I was tired of hiding who I really am. And of course making a mistake and letting her find her own conclussions.

My wife and I still get along great minus the intimacy, but we still care for eachother.
I am hoping to have a good talk with her soon and I will be back to update our status.
Oh and one more thing to those that have ripped on my wife- DON'T do it. that just pisses me off. Rip on me as much as you want but don't go there.

To be honest, you need to clarify a lot more than just that if you want any good advise. If she's willing to, as I said, give concessions and make compromises, then you can start to get somewhere. Until then, it's Keri or her. Make the choice.

If you paint your wife up as a tyrant, then expect someone to call it. Specific info is needed to get to the bottom of your problem. Not "she's mad and wants divorce because I wore false nails to church, and a little makeup sometimes", and "she didn't tell me not to! I didn't mean it!". It makes her look like a very difficult person. I'm guessing that your attitude from when you made the original post has probably changed by the time that you wrote that reply.

The only thing that you really need to focus on to solve this problem is, will she sit down and talk to you? Would she choose to learn to live with this, with you, or would she rather not deal with it, with or without you? Until you know this for sure, all points are moot.

[NicoleScott]

Kaitlyn (post #32), maybe I read more into the OP than was there. I assumed tolerance line was expressing femininity in public. She knows he crossdresses in private and underdresses, but fake nails and light makeup is too much. I agree with you to a point: they should both lay it out and see if there can be a negotiated set of boundaries that each can live with. It doesn't do any good to agree to something if you can't keep your side of the agreement (don't make promises you can't keep). If they can't find common ground, the marriage is doomed. But it's not forcing someone into a closet. He may go into the closet as an agreed-upon term. It's not selfish to expect the man she married to act like a man, at least in public. Agreeing to something is not being forced. I agree with you: they need a serious sit-down talk.

Aprilrain (post #35), are you suggesting that the manly man should make all the rules?

I'm not a house slave. I don't keep my crossdressing private just because she wants me to. I kept it private long before I met her. WE agree that it is in OUR best interest. That's what makes it work. My crossdressing presents no problems for us as long as both of us keep the agreement. Maybe I shouldn't have said she tolerates my crossdressing. It's not like she is against it but is OK as long as I stay within her boundaries. She accepts my crossdressing as a part of who I am. I am also a regular guy, husband, and father without gender issues. I just like to dress up sometimes. I do all the manly man things other men (who don't crossdress) do, except I don't set all the boundaries. We do that together. That must seem strange to you.

[Kittyagain]

Keri, you are trying so hard. That really stands out to me. Keep trying every angle you can think of to find the middle ground you both can be happy with.

Now we need the genie to have a third wish.

Kitty

[Kaitlyn26]

Nicole, within that line comes interpretation and opinion. To some men, makeup is a daily and masculine occurrence. Without knowing how femme the makeup was, it's hard to say for sure if it went outside the lines. To some, any makeup may cross the line. Maybe Keri pushed too far, maybe the line needs to be a bit more clear. I think that based on Keri's love for the SO, and the public displays, that any lasting resolution will need to include more outlets for feminine things. It's going to be difficult to get that kind of compromise from a wife that just asked for divorce. Without it, I think the problem will come up again.

[Rachel Mari]

Keri,

This really hits close to home and I feel for you as I'm going through somewhat of the same situation except that we don't consider divorce as an option in the foreseeable future (we have two kids and have communicated our love for them but also our need to grow in possible seperate directions).

We have gone to counseling before and until the last time, has worked for us. I think we tend to need a third party there to help us keep on track with our thoughts and emotions when trying to talk to each other. We both feel that it allows us to say what needs to be said without it becoming too overwhelming and us shutting down.
We're trying to find a new counselor as the last one just wasn't working out anymore.

It is very difficult to define who we feel we are and how that matches up to how we were. Whether to suspress the needs as before or grow in other ways. Be true to yourself and her.
I wish you luck and I hope it turns out for the best, whatever the outcome.

Rachel

[ReineD]

I have a few thoughts, but first I'd like to get something out of the way that isn't specific to your situation.

We all like to think that we "shouldn't" care what others think of us. And perhaps if a person's need to be a non-conformist is strong (whether it is gender-bending, or goth, or punk, etc), this will make it easier to not care, especially if they mingle among other non-conformists. They will already have a peer group and they won't care what anyone outside their peer group thinks. Or, there are people who are strong individualists, perhaps they are loners, and they walk through life doing as they please without caring what anyone else thinks.

But, most of us do need others in our lives, to varying levels of closeness and this is why many CDers keep their femme appearance in the closet, as least to the people they interact with daily. We are social animals; friends, church groups or other groups of people are important to many of us, hence after a certain age, few of us care to stray too far outside of convention. We want to fit in. We want to be invited to stuff. We don't want people to whisper behind out backs. At the same time, most of us don't care what strangers think, since they'll not see us again. But we do care what the people we interact with daily think.

That said, I'm about to make some major assumptions about your wife now, just based on how many of the GGs that I've spoken to over the years have felt. I'm also making some assumptions about you, based on your post:

You need to be yourself, which from your description is a gender blend. You like to incorporate feminine elements while you're in guy mode and when you look at yourself in the mirror, you just see a reflection of who you are. Or, perhaps you swing more to the female side and you don't even come close to expressing the degree of femininity that you would like. I don't know, since you haven't elaborated on this too much.

But, your wife (I'm assuming because she is a gender conformist like many if not most people), does not want others to know that you are a gender blend or a gender non-conformist, nor does she want others to know you are female if you do swing more in that direction. She wants to be with, and she wants to be seen with a guy when she is out in public. She doesn't want people talking behind her back. It is unfortunate we live in a society that looks askance at men who overtly look feminine, but, it is what it is. She likely wants to be included in various social groups and not be ostracized because people might question your gender identity.

Again, not knowing where you sit along the gender spectrum, I do want to point out there are ways that CDers can come up with a neutral look that will look OK whether they are in guy or girl mode. My SO does this. For example, he has mid-back length hair that he wears tied at the nape in guy mode. He works in a liberal environment where other males do this as well, so he doesn't stand out. He trimmed back his arm hair so that it is not overly bushy, but at the same time he still has some arm hair (women have arm hair too ). He plucked his eyebrows the same way; there is no high arch that makes it obvious in guy mode that he plucks them, but they look nice in femme mode as well. He let his fingernails grow so there is no need to wear press-on nails ever. He doesn't paint them when he's in guy mode, not even a clear coat. Fingernails can also be a neutral length that look OK in both modes. (I keep mine short, simply because they split when they get long.) He pierced his ears, but he doesn't wear earrings in guy mode. No one notices the piercing in guy mode and even if they did, lots of guys nowadays have body piercings. He does keep his legs shaved and his toe nails are often painted, but most times he is in jeans and sneakers so no one knows this. He would never wear sandals in guy mode showing painted toe nails. And he never wears makeup in guy mode, ever. And last, he has had a few sessions of laser facial hair removal which makes it much easier when he is out en femme, but I can't tell when I see him in guy mode. He just always looks cleanly shaved, like lots of other men.

In other words, no one looks at my SO in guy mode and guesses "crossdresser" nor do they question his gender (except people who notice the little things). Yet, he can get ready to go out dressed in a flash whenever he wants to, because of the way that he maintains his appearance. That said, he does want to appear male when he's in guy mode, and female when he's in femme mode. Perhaps it is important for you to appear feminine when you are in guy mode?

Back to your wife: she likely feels odd about you wearing makeup and press-on nails in guy mode and she may feel as if you don't care to maintain your male appearance any more. And if you don't like to be naked in front of her, she may feel as if your sexuality is changing as well, as if you are no longer interested in her. In fact, she may believe you are more TS than CD. You should ask her this, because if she feels you are TS, she may wonder if you might not prefer to be with men than with her.

So .. this very long post is my attempt at trying to explain some very subtle changes that you might make, that would satisfy both your wife and yourself, depending on where you sit along the gender spectrum. But if you cannot live without wearing makeup and press-on nails, or visibly painted toenails in guy mode though, then I agree with the others. I think you've crossed a line that your wife can't live with and if this is the case, I also strongly recommend you make a last ditch attempt at saving your marriage by suggesting couples counseling to your wife.

[prettytoes]

I can say for sure that my wife would very much prefer that I was not a crossdresser. She is, however, fairly accepting because she knows that this is a part of me that cannot be changed. We have been married for 27 years, and she just found out this past spring (found my stash of clothes). After a few days of silence, we talked about it and I was able to explain myself, and answer all her questions. I make sure to tell her every day how much I love her, how happy I am to have her, and how much I appreciate all she does for me. I also bought the book "My Husband Wears My Clothes" for both of us. It was excellant! It really helped explain things (to both of us!), and put into words what I was unable to. She has asked for certain boundries, which I am happy to honor. I am able to keep my toenails painted and wear yoga pants/shorts without making her uncomfortable. I wear panties 24/7 and I normally sleep in nighties. I do not wear skirts or dresses in front of her, or feminine tops/blouses. She knows I have them, I just don't wear them in front of her. I do not wear nighties when we are intimate; I would like to, but she wouldn't like that.
She has said many times that she married me and loves me "for better or for worse", and she loves me unconditionally. I highly recommend reading the book I mentioned, and explaining to her that as much as you enjoy your time to be feminine, you also love being her man. It is a part of you, and if you try to make it disappear, you will only be miserable and depressed.
Good luck, I hope you can turn things around. When there is true love, there is always a way to work things out.

[Kaitlyn26]

I can say for sure that my wife would very much prefer that I was not a crossdresser. She is, however, fairly accepting because she knows that this is a part of me that cannot be changed. We have been married for 27 years, and she just found out this past spring (found my stash of clothes). After a few days of silence, we talked about it and I was able to explain myself, and answer all her questions. I make sure to tell her every day how much I love her, how happy I am to have her, and how much I appreciate all she does for me. I also bought the book "My Husband Wears My Clothes" for both of us. It was excellant! It really helped explain things (to both of us!), and put into words what I was unable to. She has asked for certain boundries, which I am happy to honor. I am able to keep my toenails painted and wear yoga pants/shorts without making her uncomfortable. I wear panties 24/7 and I normally sleep in nighties. I do not wear skirts or dresses in front of her, or feminine tops/blouses. She knows I have them, I just don't wear them in front of her. I do not wear nighties when we are intimate; I would like to, but she wouldn't like that.
She has said many times that she married me and loves me "for better or for worse", and she loves me unconditionally. I highly recommend reading the book I mentioned, and explaining to her that as much as you enjoy your time to be feminine, you also love being her man. It is a part of you, and if you try to make it disappear, you will only be miserable and depressed.
Good luck, I hope you can turn things around. When there is true love, there is always a way to work things out.

That's the way it should be. I would not settle for anything less, personally.

[NicoleScott]

Kaitlyn (Post #40), I agree totally.

[cassandra54]

your signature says it all

I wish I had the courage to just be myself and live my life how I want.

tough questions, hard times, difficult. choices and no easy answers. a lot of soul searching is in store for you.

what's more important crossdressing or your wife? would you be happy not dressing and would she love you again? would you be happy? definitely tell the doctor everything about you. maybe he will understand, maybe not. if not find a doctor that agrees with you. take your meds if you need them. most of all, don't give up hope and being positive.

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

TGMarla;
AMEN! Amen to " you owe it to your wife to be her man, not her wife." If you want to be her wife, expect the big D. Explain that you are the MAN she married, show it, prove it and above all else, give her every reason to believe she is the biggest part of your world. Set it in your mind that if you want the marriage to "work", you're going to have to WORK at it. No lip service, just pure honest proof by example. Show her that you understand that some of the things that you do while crossdressing makes her very insecure and possibly feel rejection. The crossdressing is a part of you not her. She accepts (maybe) but she may not like it. Let her know you understand that and work on setting limitations. Consider you time crossdressing as a business trip. You wouldn't bring your wife on one to sit through boring meetings like you have to. She knows you're on a trip and she doesn't NEED to go with you. She knows you crossdress but she doen't need it stuffed her nose.

Excuse my rambling. I had to take a darvicet for the pain from changing my abdominal wound VAC and like my mouth, my fingers are typing whatever comes to my mind. God help us all.

[Duana]

You're asking to forego your happiness for your wife's. While a noble idea, it doesn't work well in practice. Realize that each others happiness may be possible only if apart. I'm a firm believer in divorcing non-accepting wives. I don't mean to sound harsh in expressing my belief but I really think its for the best. She can find a "normal" guy and you can find someone that loves all of you, not just half of you. Everybody wins.

[Kaitlyn26]

TGMarla;
AMEN! Amen to " you owe it to your wife to be her man, not her wife." If you want to be her wife, expect the big D. Explain that you are the MAN she married, show it, prove it and above all else, give her every reason to believe she is the biggest part of your world. Set it in your mind that if you want the marriage to "work", you're going to have to WORK at it. No lip service, just pure honest proof by example. Show her that you understand that some of the things that you do while crossdressing makes her very insecure and possibly feel rejection. The crossdressing is a part of you not her. She accepts (maybe) but she may not like it. Let her know you understand that and work on setting limitations. Consider you time crossdressing as a business trip. You wouldn't bring your wife on one to sit through boring meetings like you have to. She knows you're on a trip and she doesn't NEED to go with you. She knows you crossdress but she doen't need it stuffed her nose.

Excuse my rambling. I had to take a darvicet for the pain from changing my abdominal wound VAC and like my mouth, my fingers are typing whatever comes to my mind. God help us all.

Regardless, being a MANLY MAN, for her sake, will just screw up the situation even more down the road. If she's willing, finding some middle ground that you both consider a "win" is the only lasting resolution. The urge won't leave, and the more you try to make it leave, the harder it's going to dig in and want to hold it's ground. Anything more than that, is purely speculation.

Keri may want to consider some of the things that Reine mentioned about how to go between quickly and keep a few subtle femme things that most people will not notice.

[sterling12]

You seem to have problems piled on top of problems. Your crossdressing seems to be one aspect of the overall picture, but it's not the whole thing. Yeah, I agree with the others, you need to get some professional help. And Counseling ONLY works when you are candid, and put a lot of your own self-help work into the equation.

Will you end up with a divorce? Probably, and The Counseling will hopefully get you and your wife to a place where you can handle the idea. One important thing to remember: "Your NOT responsible for your wife's happiness, nor her unhappiness!" "Only she can effect that problem!" "Conversely, she's NOT responsible for your moods, good or bad!" Ultimately, The only person we can effect, is ourselves.

With many issues, it will take time to begin to sort it out. If your Wife wants to try and wait, then something good might come out of it. If she doesn't, that's OK too. It just wasn't meant to be.

Now, having said all this; I like to remind folks who solicit our OPINIONS, that "it's not Gospel." We aren't experts, and we certainly don't know all the facts. Hope that some of this Info. helps you. But, don't expect miracles around here. Don't wait for further opinions, get with your county's Social Services.....get help!

Peace and Love, Joanie