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Thread: Who has been tested and/or diagnosed?

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    Who has been tested and/or diagnosed?

    Tested or diagnosed "officially", that is, not self-administering a test.

    This could be any kind of gender-related testing or diagnosis: genetic, karyotype, hormonal assay, etc. the second question is whether or not you've been diagnosed as dysphoric, TG, TS, with GID, etc.

    Lea
    Last edited by LeaP; 10-19-2011 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #2
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that there is any kind of standard test, but from the fact that a mental health professional recommended that I receive treatment for Gender Dysphoria and that two professionals in the Gender Identity Clinic agreed, I guess you could say that I have been diagnosed. To the best of my knowledge, the clinic does not make a diagnosis of "TS", but they do accept a patient's self-identification as trans.

    Personally, I have an intense dislike of the term Gender Identity Disorder because to me it suggest that the person thus diagnosed is suffering from a mental illness.
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    I agree with the comment on mental disorders and, unfortunately, that's exactly what a GID code falls under in the diagnosis code structure.

    Lea

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    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    Genetic tests, karyotypes, and hormonal assays cannot diagnose you as a TS. People with genetic disorders (such as Klinefelter's syndrome) have physical and sometimes mental related issues due to an actual genetic disorder. Transsexualism is not known to be a genetic disorder in that most MTF TS have healthy XY chromosomal makeup. In fact, scientists aren't really sure WHAT causes it...it could be anti-testosterone antibody exposure in utero...it could be a lot of things. No one is quite sure just yet.

    Furthermore, hormonal assays are not reliable because it has been shown that some MTF TS may actually have excess testosterone in their system. On one TS's website where she gives advice to people who are uncertain if transitioning is right for them, she states that when she had her blood work done before HRT her testosterone levels were way above normal. However, she still had gender disphoria.

    Lastly, don't get caught up on "mental disorder." It IS a mental problem in that being transsexual affects your mental well-being. A lot of things affect your mental well-being. I wish society would get rid of this stigma.
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
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    Swans have more fun! sandra-leigh's Avatar
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    The gender therapist I go to is the only person in my province who is considered qualified to certify GID for SRS. (That is something I only found out a couple of months ago.)

    When I told her that I wanted to seriously investigate HRT, to see whether it was even a possibility for my personal biology, and to find out from a professional what the health risks were, her reaction was more or less, "Yay!" As in she considered it past time that I moved on from vague apprehension of what HRT was about and moved on to doing something rather than sitting on the fence.

    We had not even talked about HRT a great deal before that: it was not at all like I would spend the sessions dithering about "Should I or shouldn't I?" The strongest I had expressed before that was along the lines of "It doesn't seem like something I would be interested in thinking much about at this time, but I have this nagging feeling that some-day I am going to give in to the temptation to try it and see what it is like."

    Was this a "diagnosis"? Well no official syndrome name was written down (at least not in anything I ever saw). But when the best qualified person in pretty much a 1000 mile radius thinks you are overdue for starting HRT, then I'd say that's pretty fair implicit evidence that you are considered to have notable gender dysphoria.

    I have never asked my gender therapist whether she thinks I am transsexual. I'm not sure she would answer even if I were to directly ask. She is not keen on labels, only on helping each person find a way of life that is good for them, whatever mix of gender behaviors that might be.

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    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Lets face it, whether or not we've been 'officially' diagnosed by anyone as having gender identity disorder/dysphoria, everyone here, simply by definition of what we do, has it. Otherwise we wouldn't care what we wear.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

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    Senior Member Intertwined's Avatar
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    I have been diagnosed with XXY, I have not been diagnosed as dysphoric, TG, TS or GID.

    I know my internal gender identity to be essentially androgynous, both male and female at the same time, may be a bit more on the masculine side.

    "Gender Identity" itself, is not a disorder, it only becomes a disorder when a persons "Gender Identity" causes that person a persistent discomfort about one’s sense of inappropriateness in the gender role that society expects of them.
    "I am Yin & Yang, North & South, Night & Day, Feminine & Masculine" [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shananigans View Post
    Lastly, don't get caught up on "mental disorder." It IS a mental problem in that being transsexual affects your mental well-being. A lot of things affect your mental well-being. I wish society would get rid of this stigma.
    Hi Shananigans, I love the way you bring so much common sense to your arguments and ally this with your scientific understanding, but I'm afraid I have to differ slightly from you here. I agree with you that being transsexual affects your mental well-being when nothing is being done, but so do many other things which are not mental illnesses.

    I have no qualms about the fact that the clinicians who are overseeing my treatment are mental health specialists, but I see their role as ensuring that I get the right treatment to prevent me from developing a mental disease or defect rather than in treating one that already exists.

    Whilst I am an active campaigner against the stigmatisation of people with mental illness, I do not wish to have this stigma wrongly attached to me. What I have is a condition that can affect my well-being, not something that is caused by a lack of mental well-being.
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    In order to get funding from the UK National Health Service (NHS) and be placed on to their gender transition pathway, I had to go through a number of steps of analysis, diagnosis and tests.

    1. Ask GP if I could be considered for a gender transition. He wrote to our local Primary Care Trust (PCT, the local NHS funding body) for instructions because he had never experienced such a request! They informed him and I moved to next step.

    2. A local (non-gender specialist) psychiatrist interviewed me to ascertain I was mentally balanced. He referred me to a the West London Mental Health Authority Gender Clinic with Charing Cross hospital (CHX).

    3. At CHX, I was interviewed by the clinical lead gender specialist psychiatrist who sent me for hormonal blood tests referred me on to an endocrinologist and a second gender specialist psychiatrist. NB: Two gender specialist psychiatrist diagnoses are required to enter NHS gender transition pathway.

    4. I met with endocrinologist at CHX who sent me back for further blood pressure tests and a testicular scan to clear me of a problem perhaps indicated by one blood test result. These proved OK and the endocrinologist responded that I was OK to proceed given that next step was OK.

    5. Met with second gender specialist psychiatrist at CHX who agreed that I could proceed. He wrote to my GP that I was to be prescribed oestrogen HRT. Oh happy day!

    6. At regular intervals of 4 months, I see the lead gender specialist psychiatrist at CHX and a gender specialist nurse practitioner, who is at the CHX and communicates with their endocrinologist. They both communicate with my GP and so I advance in my hormone therapy with is now the daily application of 3 1mg Estradiol gel sachets (HRT) and a 12 weekly injection of Decapeptyl (a testosterone inhibitor).

    7. When my 8 weekly blood tests indicate my oestrogen and testosterone levels reach the required female levels I will be referred to a gender specialist surgeon at CHX or even elect to go private.

    Throughout all this I am in regular contact with:
    1. local psychotherapist - she is lovely and gives me a foot in reality
    2. my GP
    3. local psychiatrist
    4. gender specialist psychiatrist at CHX
    5. gender specialist nurse practitioner at CHX
    6. endocrinologist at CHX.
    7. anybody else who needs to be consulted about my Crohn's disease, diabetes, blood pressure, prostate problems (I had a scare where most my carers above focussed until they were sure it was OK).

    At no time was it even hinted I might have a mental disorder. The term "gender dysphoria" was never used either. I questioned this and I was told by the lead gender specialist psyschiatrist at CHX it was not a condition, merely a symptom and that I was the only one who could say I was gender dysphoric - "a bit like a runny nose", he said lol

    Of course, there were hiccups on the way, mainly with funding at the PCT, but I am on my way and I am confident that I am being cared for professionally and holistically. I feel really fortunate to have such a team working on my side...
    Last edited by Josie Rose; 10-19-2011 at 04:33 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Silver Member noeleena's Avatar
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    Hi.

    Well i spos if i escaped from the assylum i must be okay , oh did you mean mentaly insane, well yes i am just i knew who i was,

    no i did not have tests i just told our Dr's i am a female / woman & im going to live as one i was never asked any ? 's just was given what i needed & basicly told get on with your life,

    I paid for my surgerys & what i needed, no hoop jumping , over the years i have had a number of surgerys so no probs there, im not T s / T G or dysphorc as to karotype thats only a miner detail & theres a whole raft of combos,

    being I S helped tho *& it was a lot different for me so really its been great,

    ...noeleena...

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    After three months of gender therapy I was diagnosed to be a male to female transsexual with sexual attraction to women. Leanne

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    I had a few thoughts in mind in asking the question. It was initially triggered by the realization that I lack a comprehensive view of available physical tests and test process as it related to gender-related diagnoses. (The psychological side I understand.)

    The next thought was to ask. Here I assumed that a fair number of members might have had some testing performed if for no other reason that there is such intense interest in discussing biological causes for TG identity. Even with those who are closeted, surely might be some who were assessed as children?

    Next was applicability to me - what might be worthwhile, enlightening, or interesting. Alternatively, what testing results in ambiguity, is expensive, perhaps even controversial.

    Last, I thought it might bring to light emerging testing and research areas.

    What's surprised me so far - with limited responses, of course - is the seeming lack of rigor employed by health care providers suggested by some of the responses (Josie's being a major exception). On the positive side, not being diagnosed with GID is probably a good thing for most people, as it does fall under the category of mental disorders. One caution here, however: It is perfectly possible for a provider to code for GID for billing purposes without actually delivering that diagnosis to a patient. There are a variety of reasons for this, but the point is that in this case one should ask - and check - on the codes ultimately used by the provider. (My wife was a practice administrator for a surgical practice at one point, and had oversight of coding, billing, and insurance reimbursement). This is the sort of thing that can show up on background checks.

    Lea
    Last edited by LeaP; 10-19-2011 at 09:36 AM.

  13. #13
    Junior Member lynnmcarthur's Avatar
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    The key here is about how one feels and what she wants and hopes would happen. I have been classified as TS by the major gender program in my area at the University of Michigan. It is clear that I could move toward RLT and hormones with surgery at the end. For a variety of reasons well thought out, I have decided to walk the tightrope of the dual life. I am grandpa, dad and the guy in the next office who very clearly belongs in the TS group.

  14. #14
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Lea,....outside of intersexed people, there is no physical test...i think that is the whole point.

    I guess its possible they will find some genetic or biological marker someday...but today, diagnosing what's going on in somebody's mind, diagnosing issues related to identity and a person sense of themselves is inherently risky, difficult, and almost impossible to look at in a quantitative way..its so subjective that a person can go to one person and get "diagnosed" differently...its just the way it is now..
    plus as you point out, different therapists and docs use different codes for insurance and other reasons..

    frankly i do not believe in the "diagnosis" of ts or other gender issues... you know in your heart and mind...sometimes people can help you get there...they can show you ways of thinking that are hurting you, teach you to think objectively,
    and help you overcome shame and guilt...etc..

    but to "diagnose"? no thanks... what help is there in the diagnosis if you are not going to transition...it seems to me its just something that will make you more miserable..

    you will either benefit from transition or not... a good therapist can help you figure this out...to me that should be the end of the story....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    Lea,....outside of intersexed people, there is no physical test...i think that is the whole point.

    .
    Oh, I fully understand that point, and I can see where mixing the topics of testing and diagnoses leads to some thread confusion. The testing question goes more to what lengths people have gone in a quest for self-understanding. They will talk about digit ratios, for example. Anyone had X-rays for exact measurements? Certain brain structures ... Anyone perhaps participated in a study and had a scan done? Genetic testing of any type? Anyone intersexed and how was it determined (one yes on that one - XXY). Sperm count & motility? Hormone assay? Hormone sensitivity? Anyone with symptom clusters typical of some gender issues (e.g. Depression) and was there a correlation made by a provider? And so on ...

    It's not that any or all of this must be done. It doesn't for a psych evaluation. But who has pursued any of it in this group of intensely interested people? Hopefully this explains the topic better.

    Lea

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    The Girl Next Door Sally24's Avatar
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    I went to one of the well known gender therapists in Massachusetts. After meeting several times she explained that she thought I was TG but didn't seem to have any body disphoria. As I seemed comfortable with my male life she didn't think I was TS and recommended that I probably should not consider any serious body modifications. Hair removal and skin treatments seemed likely to be able to be incorporated into my life without upsetting the balance. She mostly confirmed what I thought myself but she also was able to guide me in what things I could do to make both sides of me happy.

    I don't have any problem with the syndrome and disorder labels. If you are seeing some sort of professional you have a "problem". I don't care if they classify it as a disease, a complex, a syndrome, or whatever let's them sleep at night. It's all semantics. Also, if it isn't a medical problem, food luck getting any insurance to pay for it. You can't have it both ways.
    Sally

  17. #17
    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    Hi Shananigans, I love the way you bring so much common sense to your arguments and ally this with your scientific understanding, but I'm afraid I have to differ slightly from you here. I agree with you that being transsexual affects your mental well-being when nothing is being done, but so do many other things which are not mental illnesses.

    I have no qualms about the fact that the clinicians who are overseeing my treatment are mental health specialists, but I see their role as ensuring that I get the right treatment to prevent me from developing a mental disease or defect rather than in treating one that already exists.

    Whilst I am an active campaigner against the stigmatisation of people with mental illness, I do not wish to have this stigma wrongly attached to me. What I have is a condition that can affect my well-being, not something that is caused by a lack of mental well-being.
    I should probably explain what I mean in greater that 2 sentences because this is pretty important as far as where transsexuals are going to stand with health care professionals and drug companies.

    I've always learned that mental health is "A state of complete physical, mental and social well-being, and not merely the absence of disease." Therefore, gender dysphoria would be affecting your mental health and could lead to a disorder. It would be disordered if it affecting how you can perform your normal day-to-day functions. Luckily, it has psychiatric diagnostic measures and different effective methods of treatment. It actually can be cured.

    If I was performing a mental health assessment on you, and I suspected gender dysphoria...I would document this as an "abnormal finding." Doesn't really mean you are abnormal, but what it means is that something is going on that could affect your mental health and therefore your physical health. (The two are related). After a mental health assessment with an abnormal finding from a healthcare professional, you would then get recommendations to a psychiatric nurse practitioner, a psychiatrist, or a psychologist (depends on your insurance coverage as to who you will go to).

    This would be the same if I suspected that anxiety or depression was affecting your day-to-day functioning. There's nothing wrong with having something going on with your mental health, but getting it left untreated can be devastating. You could say that transsexualism is BOTH a mental and physical disorder. And, as we know, depression and suicide is high in the transsexual population so finding gender dysphoria, documenting it, and getting the person into treatment is my highest priority.

    Your mental health can be disordered without having an actual "disease." Just as depression is extremely common, it's still a disorder and needs treatment and therapy.

    To say that transsexualism is not a disorder is counterintuitive to transsexuals getting health coverage for SRS and hormones. When society starts seeing it as disorder that needs treatment, there can be better therapy with better coverage. But, the more people see it as a choice, the less likely it's going to be accepted as "non-elective procedures."

    There's currently a big debate on GID and it being labeled a disorder. I know people don't like the labeling. But, it's really hard for people to get funding for the treatment that they need, and labels that YOU NEED TREATMENT may be necessary...
    Last edited by Shananigans; 10-19-2011 at 01:30 PM.
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
    “What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck

  18. #18
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    i actually believe i misspoke and there may be a brain study out there that looks at transsexual brains..

    i think one issue was that the scans were done after HRT, which could've impacted the result...

    one practical issue is that there are so few of us....another issue is that if you need a physical test, then you are probably a long way from doing anything about the issue..

    i go back to the idea of transition as something that will benefit a transsexual.. a woman that was born and raised as a man...
    ...if you transition well, your quality of life will improve...if you transition poorly, you may suffer life issues, but you will still benefit from gender confirmation... its that simple...

    all the dsm, soc, GID , labels...etcetc are part of means to an end..they are imperfect at best..

    only the person knows...if you don't know yet, that doesnt mean you are not transsexual, but it does mean that you unlikely to benefit from transition at that point and you should evaluate other options to improve your quality of life

    i don't see physical tests as anything more than an imperfect tool..

  19. #19
    Aspiring Member Amanda22's Avatar
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    I've been diagnosed as a "trans-woman" by one of the leading gender psychologists in the U.S.

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    Member StephanieH's Avatar
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    I've had two different doctors tell me I had VERY low testosterone levels while doing testing for other stuff and they wanted to give me shots for it, but I politely declined.

    I've been wanting to get tested for being XXY simply out of morbid curiousity but haven't done it yet. Wouldn't be surprised if I was tho, because I sure do seem to have most of the signs/symptoms of being wired up that way.

    Take care!

  21. #21
    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randi View Post
    I've had two different doctors tell me I had VERY low testosterone levels while doing testing for other stuff and they wanted to give me shots for it, but I politely declined.

    I've been wanting to get tested for being XXY simply out of morbid curiousity but haven't done it yet. Wouldn't be surprised if I was tho, because I sure do seem to have most of the signs/symptoms of being wired up that way.

    Take care!
    Klinefelter's syndrome doesn't mean you are "wired up" like a woman...at all...No. There is no scientific causal relationship between transsexualism and Klinefelter's syndrome.

    Klinefelter's syndrome can cause problems physically, socially, and with language development. Kids with Klinefelter's syndrome are sometimes "late talkers" and may not know the appropriate words and expressions to describe their feelings. They usually have difficulties with learning to read an write in comparison to their peers. They're usually pretty quiet because of this.

    Klinefelter's isn't making a man a woman. Girls develop language skills usually at faster rates than boys. Girls usually read and write better than any other skills and are great with expressive language. This isn't seen with Klinefelter's even though there is an extra X chromosome. The fear with having a child with this condition is that he develops socially with his peers without struggling through milestones. In the past, XXY babies were aborted (I think the stat was like 58% of the time) because of the fear of retardation. We know now that the severity of social and cognitive development will depend on the child. The child might have severe impairments, or he may have none. He may have severe physical malformations, or he may have only slight physical malformations.

    Physically, Klinefelter's syndrome means you will have a small penis, small testicles, gynecomastia, and infertility.

    I just want to make this absolutely clear to everyone because it's REALLY not fair to transsexuals that aren't XXY and it's not fair to people with Klinefelter's syndrome who just want to lead a normal male life.

    It's a pretty common genetic disorder, so I know there are TG people that have Klinefelter's syndrome. But, let me reiterate ONE MORE TIME that there is no causal relationship between the two.

    If you do not believe me, go to your local genetic testing clinic or lab and see how many males are beating themselves up over it/getting breast reductions/getting testosterone therapy/trying to find a way to have children.

    If you want affirmation that you are transsexual (or not), go to a psychiatrist that has expertise in TG therapy. Getting approval for hormones or SRS does not come with a hormonal assay test or karyotype testing for a reason...because these are not the ways to test for being a TS.
    Last edited by Shananigans; 10-19-2011 at 04:06 PM.
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
    “What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck

  22. #22
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    I like the idea of confirmation much more than i like the idea of diagnosis...

    maybe its just splitting hairs, i'm thinking about how many people go to therapists and let them run everything...
    if you have a decent sense of where you are going, or just need a little push, a diagnosis/confirmation probably helps alot..

    shananagins,...i remember seeing 20/20 and chloe prince did a special and they showed it like she got a bee sting, found out about her kleinfelters and therefore she is transsexual!!! ugh...what a disservice to both transsexuals and people with KS

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    Most people with XXY do not have Klinefelter Syndrome.

    I'm more curious than anything else. It irks me a bit that there are no markers for DES - I would like to know if I was exposed. Hormonal levels would be interesting. I don't exhibit any of the traits associated with KS, so a finding of XXY wouldn't seem terribly useful.

    Oh well. I may see a therapist at some point, as I associate several issues strongly with TG suppression. Trained perspective would be helpful, and I could benefit from more active assistance on a couple of them.

    Lea
    Last edited by LeaP; 10-19-2011 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Syntax

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    . Aprilrain's Avatar
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    Yes i have been diagnosed with GID by a psychiatrist. My therapist would only use that diagnosis for insurance reasons.

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    Aspiring Member Dawn cd's Avatar
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    I love Shananigans. I look up to her as The Authority on almost every subject.

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