Bisexuality & Crossdressing

[ReineD]

^ Didn't you learn that we can't rely on the stereotypes (male and female) portrayed in the media for an accurate portrayal of humanity?

It's like believing in fairy tales!

Look around at your married friends instead. Your neighbors. Your family. You'll see that each person in a relationship has their own strengths and weaknesses and most marriages are an equal partnership and not an exercise in dominance/submission. Look especially close at anyone under 40, and devise an average rather than focus on perhaps the one or two couples who do appear to conform to the stereotypes.

[whowhatwhen]

All I see from marriage is the woman giving up so much for the man but not the other way around, that's just anecdotal though.
That probably explains my low opinion of it :P

[ReineD]

The idea that men are dominant and women are submissive as a blanket statement is pure and total nonsense. Hogwash.

Totally agree! Honestly, I think we can only find the notion of "submissiveness" in a CDer's sexual fantasy. Guys who do not CD don't go around calling their wives submissive.

I'm a GG, I was at home raising kids for decades while my husband had the career, and I can tell you without a shadow of any doubt that I decidedly DID NOT FEEL SUBMISSIVE! (Was that definitive enough? ). We each had our jobs/tasks/chores, things that we each were better at or preferred, we helped each other out and advised in each other's areas of expertise (in other words there was no lord & master/slave relationship) and we were satisfied with the division of labor. Did I get a sexual charge out of feeling, as one poster said above, "weak, used, and dominated"? H*ll no! lol. And I would have smacked anyone who suggested anything of the sort, simply because we had decided that one of us should stay at home to raise the kids, and that person was me because my earning power was less than his.

And I'm in my 50s! Can you imagine how much more equal things are now with people in their 20s and 30s?

Jeez.

[whowhatwhen]

Did I get a sexual charge out of feeling, as one poster said above, "weak, used, and dominated"? H*ll no! lol.

I re-read the original post that started this derail and while I can see why some people are upset I believe it was blown a bit out of proportion.

She didn't say women or femininity are inherently weak, inferior or submissive, but was (I think) describing a submission fantasy that likely doesn't extend further than the bedroom.

It is interesting though that the fabled "faceless male" makes another appearance, he seems to be quite popular. I do have hope that one day he will be unmasked. :P

[Tara D. Rose]

Wow this thread has had 16,771 views and 356 replies. It has gone from bi while dressed (MtF), to men and women being equal or not being equal. I'm just speaking neutrally here. Ahh the heck with it

[ReineD]

She didn't say women or femininity are inherently weak, inferior or submissive, but was (I think) describing a submission fantasy that likely doesn't extend further than the bedroom.

That was my point.

Maybe it just boils down to people wanting to use the forum for different purposes. Although a few people like to come here and post their sexual fantasies, I'd say for the most part people seek support here and it is also a place where they attempt to define themselves, at least when they first come here. And so to have posts that laud femininity as some sort of fetish is offensive to those of us who aren't into this sort of thing, especially the GGs who are here to support their husbands. CD.com isn't, after all, a fetish forum. There are plenty of other places online that the fetishists can go to.

Still, if one of our members experiences an occasional need to describe a sexual fantasy, it might help if he would preface his post with "This is strictly a sexual fantasy and it is not the way I see women in general", so that the rest of us would know he is not painting women with a broad brush and objectifying them. Or better yet, he could post such sexual fantasies in the GM forum.

[Jennifer Monroe]

I see myself as bisexual. I could be in a long term relationship with either a man or a woman. I would search for compansionship and someone who cared for and loved me. I love dressing up but I could make love with or without the clothes with either sex. If I was in a relationship a man I would just be me. I would see how things evolved before introducing female clothing. I would do the same with a woman. I would see how things progressed. The most important thing to me is not if I could wear sexy lingerie while making love but just connecting with my lover and partner. Whatever you feel comfortable with then explore and be happy!

[muzzy]

wow,I have only been on this site a few weeks and this is easily the most discussed thread with 15 pages so far....ME,I have a girlfriend whom I have told I crossdress and is good about it although I don't go out and it's mainly lingerie in the bedroom.I have never told previous girlfriends so this is a pretty good start.I have thought about sex with men but I don't think my heart is into it as I've slept with a few but as far as going all the way,well,let's just say not yet..It's always a possibility you can't rule out.In general I would have to say I'm a hetro who loves to dressup but has had thoughts about bi.....as far as I can tell,most of us have had the thought at least xoxo

[Tara D. Rose]

wow,I have only been on this site a few weeks and this is easily the most discussed thread with 15 pages so far....ME,I have a girlfriend whom I have told I crossdress and is good about it although I don't go out and it's mainly lingerie in the bedroom.I have never told previous girlfriends so this is a pretty good start.I have thought about sex with men but I don't think my heart is into it as I've slept with a few but as far as going all the way,well,let's just say not yet..It's always a possibility you can't rule out.In general I would have to say I'm a hetro who loves to dressup but has had thoughts about bi.....as far as I can tell,most of us have had the thought at least xoxo

well welcome to the site, you will quickly find that what you thought this site is or what it is supposed to be is not what it really is. If you oppose a GG on the subject of cd's and what and who we are, you'll find yourself bullied by them. You will not win. It's a lovely world

[CINDYO]

what is all the talk about submissive and dominant. most GG do not think that way at all. that is guy talk....

[Shananigans]

well welcome to the site, you will quickly find that what you thought this site is or what it is supposed to be is not what it really is. If you oppose a GG on the subject of cd's and what and who we are, you'll find yourself bullied by them. You will not win. It's a lovely world

See...I knew that our stereotype of being passive/submissive/staying in the kitchen and wearing our high heels was a total fallacy. I keep telling men that my vagina does not dictate my personality, but I keep having to prove myself. I'm glad we have one vote that women actually aren't passive little push overs that are obsessed with clothes and being on our backs. (Even though "bullying" is a strong verb for expression of opinions).

I do love contradiction. It seems that when someone does not like something that is done to them (generalizations), they react to the situation with the same response (generalizations). It IS a lovely world.

Back to the line of bisexuality and crossdressing. Someone asked me today if I had a boyfriend. It's kind of weird that many people just assume everyone around them is straight. I mean, I do it too though...I never ask, "Do you have a significant other?" It sounds a little awkward. I was also informed that being "bisexual" is the new "in" thing for women to be. I was unaware.

[whowhatwhen]

Oh definitely, it goes something like:

Bisexual women: Doing it for the attention.
Bisexual men: Gay. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Just plain ol' gay.

It is interesting though that submissiveness in men is seen as such a negative thing, anything but the man being in charge of everything means he is a failure and deserves mockery.
I wonder how much damage that has done...

My mom gave up almost everything, I would never ask that of anyone as it's completely unfair.
*halo*

[ReineD]

If you oppose a GG on the subject of cd's and what and who we are, you'll find yourself bullied by them. You will not win. It's a lovely world

Good Lord, Tara ... please let it go. You were taken to task in the past for breaking forum rules, not because you "went against any GG". Enough already, and stop trolling. I'm warning you.

To Muzzy: you'll find GGs on this site who are supportive while others are having a hard time. Some of the GGs have SOs who are open and honest with them, while others have SOs who go behind their backs and lie. Some people have great relationships, while others don't for many reasons that have nothing to do with the CDing. Please don't listen to anyone here who makes broad-brush statements. Such people generally just don't get it.

what is all the talk about submissive and dominant. most GG do not think that way at all. that is guy talk....

It's a fantasy that many CDers have. Come to think of it, lots of guys have it too, who aren't CDers. And yes, there are GGs who are into the domme/sub lifestyle too on both sides of the coin. People have all kinds of sex that isn't vanilla. There's a rather good site called Fetlife you should have a look at. You will see there's quite a variety of sexual tastes out there. I went to a local BDSM demonstration evening once because I was curious. It was in quite a large hall with a few demonstrations, knot-tying, lots of vendors, people into all sorts of different things. It was a public demonstration (for members of Fetlife only) so there was no nudity. There must easily have been 300 people in that room, and I only saw a handful of CDers. One thing about the people in that community: they are up front and honest, they discuss all the rules clearly beforehand, and most of all, they fully respect anyone's boundaries. No surprises. I gained a lot of respect for them.

[AliceMeetsTheWizard]

It would take days out of my life to read everything that's been said here. However, I don't believe there is anything wrong with being submissive. I'm a straight guy, and not bisexual, more into the role reversal thing. To me, not being in charge is fun, but I prefer straight girls with a little "extra curricular help". I'm trying to be PC about it do I don't get edited. I'm not personally attracted to guys but it's hard for me to believe there's anybody who enjoys the dress that hasn't at least fantasized about the actions involved with the clothes. I enjoy being asked if I like something for a change. And with the three straight girls I've been with as a a CD? I think it did them good as well to feel what it feels like to wonder if you're hurting someone, or if you were good, or how it felt etc etc.

The whole world would be a better place if everyone role reversed at last once...just sayin.

[Rachel87]

To add one more oddball to the bucket, if at all, I'm attracted to femininity, whatever gender is under the clothes . Just because I have some curiosity, doesn't mean I can't be a good husband, love and commitment is above everything else. I had GG GF before, and enjoyed the relationship very much even never telling her about my crossdressing. But I can't speak for anyone else, if my current situation makes any sense at all, there must be all kinds of shades of gray and tagging any of those shades with words can by highly misleading. I guess if you ask people what a bi-sexual is exactly, you would come up with a different answer from each person.

[Shananigans]

I don't understand why people say those things. I know a lot of girls that get drunk and want to kiss another girl...because, I guess there's a song about it. (?) But, I knew I was a little weird a young age...before I even knew the actual words to describe my sexuality. It is weird for many people too...especially if word gets around in the locker room that you are "gay." So, therefore, you are about up jump every girl you see. (?) What is worse is that I never really knew what it was that made me feel so weird. Sex and relationships were described to me as being between a man and a woman. My parents didn't go into the other technicalities. So, at about age 7-8 (Maybe earlier), I knew I was weird. I didn't know the words for what was weird about me. As I got a little bit older (about 11 or 12), I knew I was into women in a way other women weren't. At about 13, I actually found out what lesbians were....from Cinemax (at night) lol. It was a holy sh*t moment of revelation. It wasn't until a bit later I learned that you could actually like BOTH, and then it was like, "Oh my God...I understand that I am bi. This is what's wrong with me." At about that same time (13 or 14), I was talking to a girl that I knew was a lesbian. When the school started calling her a freak, I pretty much abandoned her and the friendship. Yeah, I was pretty sh*tty. Then, I decided I wanted no one to know.

For some reason, I think drunk college girls that want to try out bisexual for a minute to get attention arent going through the same things. And, usually when a girl tries to kiss me (that isn't into girls), things get a little weird after she realizes that the kiss wasn't exactly the peck or whatever she was expecting. And, then, you have the girls that get totally confused and you have to hear their lifestory about being Christian.

Being "different" usually sucks for everyone in some way. You might as well get used to it now...as sad as that sounds.

Oh definitely, it goes something like:

Bisexual women: Doing it for the attention.
Bisexual men: Gay. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Just plain ol' gay.

It is interesting though that submissiveness in men is seen as such a negative thing, anything but the man being in charge of everything means he is a failure and deserves mockery.
I wonder how much damage that has done...

My mom gave up almost everything, I would never ask that of anyone as it's completely unfair.
*halo*

[rochy1]

I'll cast my vote with the "bi/gay while dressed" group - in guy mode I don't really think of other males in a sexual way, but while dressed I enjoy gay contact.

So I guess that makes me straight, or bi, or gay. Whatever

[NathalieX66]

I'm going to pipe in here and tell you what I've been told, and what I've observed:

I'm not even going to bother mentioning the dominant/submissive thing.

I was a t a seminar at a transgender conference, and a the speaker did a study was done with over 1000 people (moi included) who identify as transgender. I don't remember the exact specific stats, but the percentage of TG that are heterosexual is in the range of 40-something percent, the TG's that identify as bisexual is also in the 40-something percent. Homosexuals account for something around 10 percent. This study is still ongoing, and I hope there are more like this. It's hard to say whether the conditions for the study were ideal, or whether they actually represent the overall population. That's why more research needs to be done.

Now
My personal observation, being at TG events, gay & LGBT establishments (...i'm a pretty boring hetero guy, btw), and I will tell you that most TG's that I know personally, or have met, are either straight, married, ......or they are bisexual. I know a few that are in open relationships with a woman, but have a bi side. Either way, the number of outright gay CD/TG folks I've met seem to be a bit outnumbered. That being said, it could just be my peer group that I associate with.

[DCChris]

I don't know what box to put myself in or what label I should even apply. I'm predominately hetero when en femme or not. Been with other women while en femme on several occasions. But, here's the big but, I've also been with several other CDs on different occasions while en femme and with a couple transgendered women both en femme and in male clothes. On all those occasions, the CDs and the transgendered women presented highly feminine. Now, on the other hand, while I may have fantasized being taken by a man while en femme, when some guys have come on to me I've been really turned off by it (maybe not enough booze, lol).

So, what box am I in, other than the one that says I'm generally happy where I am along this spectrum.

[Jamiegirl1]

Hi Paulette. I am as well. I'd say that I am bigender and bisexual at the same time. That is, I'm interested in dating men while en femme and women while en homme. I don't know if there are many bisexual crossdressers, but we are here and there. I certainly accept you and I think the ladies here are very supportive of all the diversity that the forum has to offer. Thank you for speaking out! - Julie

Same goes for me! while dressed enfemme,I want to be a woman in every way!

[Kate T]

For me sexual intimacy is a culmination and expression of the deep and strong loving relationship between two people.

Monogomous and heterosexual (that person for me is my wife). I have never been attracted to men sexually at all.

[ReineD]

Now, on the other hand, while I may have fantasized being taken by a man while en femme, when some guys have come on to me I've been really turned off by it (maybe not enough booze, lol).

I hope you don't mind that I'm singling out your response, but we often have new wives question whether their husbands secretly are attracted to men, especially after reading many posts in threads like this one from CDers who say they are straight in guy mode but bi while dressed. The writers of some of these posts are indeed bi since they do cite ongoing experiences with men, whether they are dressed or not. But, we have a great deal more posts from members who make this statement without backing it up with actual experiences, which raises the question as to whether or not they might *THINK* they are bi, they might think they have a real attraction to men, based on merely their fantasies of wishing to feel feminine.

Thank you for confirming that no, the reality did not match the fantasy for you and I dare say would not for many of the other members if they actually went out and tried it as well. I can say that my SO also wondered many years ago if she too was bi, and discovered she was not after some real experimentation.

[whowhatwhen]

I'm going to argue that someone coming in here looking for, and expecting the worst is, in their mind going to find it.
They're going to skip over the posts about supporting partners and focus on the "I want a dude in my butt" posts.

[ReineD]

I'm going to argue that someone coming in here looking for, and expecting the worst is, in their mind going to find it.
They're going to skip over the posts about supporting partners and focus on the "I want a dude in my butt" posts.

Yes, this happens too. But most times, a simple clarification between what is fantasy vs. the reality is sufficient.

[flatlander_48]

More than anything, folks need to remember that sexuality is a spectrum from completely heterosexual to completely homosexual and an infinite range of shades in between. Gender identity, and how we choose to express it, works the same way. Unfortunately, though, many think in terms of a Zero Sum Game. In other words, in order for ME to be OK, it means that YOU cannot be.

Sad...