Living in the real world.

[sanderlay]

This boils own too...

"Everyone must do what they feel is the right for them. But weight the consequences carefully. There is no going back."

For me...

... The secret... had a lot of power over my life. But that was not all. What if I never took that risk? What if I went to my grave and never let the world know who I was? I've never been married so that was not a problem. I'm semi retired and so I'm my own boss. (Who's generally very understanding for the most part. )

What if...

...I had been married... and never told my SO my secret... I would have been found out... and most probably divorced. I would not blame my SO. If my SO is my best friend... am I sharing who I am? Does my SO feel free to do the same because I'm open and honest with my feeling and yearning? Perhaps my idea of a marriage is too idealistic. Perhaps that's why I'm still single... but I enjoy the advantages of being single.

More thoughts...

But as several have said... this is a series issue. We don't yet live in a world that is totally tolerant... but we are making significant progress as compared to others who came before us and laid the ground work for tolerance and understanding.

What I've learned...

1) Life is not fair. Expecting everyone to respect you is unrealistic no mater how you're dressed.

2) Be prepared in case things go wrong. Don't go out blindly because problems do happen.

3) Smile and set a positive tone as you go out and live your life. Be grateful for one more day to be yourself. Don't live in fear of what might happen but always hope for the best.

[Sally24]

There are so many ways that our CDing can affect our lives and the ones we love. I was lucky in that even being a stupid young guy, I shared my current state of dressing with my wife shortly after we started dating. Best move I ever made. Once you pass the first few years I have no good idea how you break the secrecy without great risk. But I still think that risk is better than taking a chance that you won't ever be discovered. Unless you're way clever than me, I think it likely you will be discovered at some point. If it's a choice between being exposed and coming clean on your own terms I go for my own terms and honesty every time! That was my choice with my grown kids. I didn't want to meet them at the end of the driveway on my way to an outing!

I pray for every gurl who finds herself in this situation. May you find a way to help your loved ones understand.

[Sara Jessica]

When telling, I think sooner and earlier is better than later, by sooner I mean BEFORE marriage.

Enough said.

Beyond that, disclose at your own peril but anyone in these pages should do so with much thought rather than reliance upon testimonials and such.

[KellyJameson]

I have never married and do not believe I ever will because I do not trust the institution and for me believe it would just bring pain. I noticed in dating relationships that I was always incidental to the relationship and if it was not me it would be another guy in the bed. That it was my money, sperm, sense of humor,health,physical appeal, intellect,good manners,willingness to jump thru hoops, potential marriage partner, ect...always being compared and evaluated to other potential mates like a job interview. Both men and women do this, it is instinctual. One of the greatest failings of human beings is that we treat each other like commodities and not like the living flesh and blood mortal creatures we are, putting the cart before the horse sort of speak.

I understand this is one of the harsh realities of life and that we must all bring value to relationships I just wish my humanity was not sacrificed on the alter of anothers ambitions or insecurities.

Any woman who see's her husband only as the means to her ends will never accept his crossdressing because it would run counter to her own interests socially, possibly sexually and possibly as a undesired influence of "her" children. In marriage it always seems someone is sacrificed and usually it is the one who is gentle and nonaggresive.

In my mind you only owe the truth to people who are truthful and in a war ( gender wars ) truth is very scarce and everybody plays the game of deceit, it goes with the institution. Not that I'm a cynic mind you just a frustrated romantic. Everyone wants the truth until they get it.

[Nicole Erin]

when I came out to my (now ex) wife back around 1998, I didn't have the luxury of this forum.
I didn't have GG's telling me what i really did wrong was lie, and nor did I have the butt-kisser CDs agreeing with the GG's.
I sure missed out didn't I?

[Eryn]

When telling, I think sooner and earlier is better than later, by sooner I mean BEFORE marriage.

Certainly a good policy, but not terribly useful to those of us who are "late bloomers."

We had to face this 20 years into our marriage after I finally decided to come to terms with my CDing. I was scared to death of losing my wife. In retrospect, I really should have had more confidence in her. We talked it out. She realized the importance of this to my mental health. Over several months with help from friends and from this forum we both became more comfortable with my CDing. She helped me and gave me freedom to grow. I gave her time to understand more about CDing. We both learned to communicate better. I think that we are both better off now than we were before.

Does honesty work for everyone? Obviously not. I think that the chances for success are linked to the level of commitment between husband and wife. In these days of 50% of marriages ending in divorce this level can be pretty low. If the level of commitment is low, it might be a better policy not to talk and at least prolong the marriage to the point of being found out. OTOH, if the couple are truly committed to each other then it is best to talk as soon as one is able, either before marriage, or later on as the case may warrant.

[lingerieLiz]

I told my new girlfriend soon after we started dating. She thought she could change me, and I didn't think about it. It has been a lot of years since then. There have been some rough times over it. She would like to have had a perfect husband, and I would have liked a perfect wife. Neither happened. The truth is that while a lot of women find cross dressing interesting, fun or whatever for unrelated people many don't want it at home. My belief is that the earlier you divulge it in the relationship the better. The second key part is a good understanding of what it is in your view and what she feels about it before a lifelong commitment.

As for being out and about, the answer is simple if you dress to any extent eventually it will get out. When I first was on my own I would only dress with drapes drawn. Little did I know that the neighbors could see through them. One of the neighbor women said she and her husband would miss watching the shows as I was moving out. Another time we were taking pictures while I was underdressed. When I looked in the mirror it didn't show, but the flash added enough light that it reflected through the knit more than my skin. My bra showed through the sweater in the pictures especially a back view which showed the band and straps. A friend made sure I received those pictures and negatives, but others saw them.

I've only had a few instances of truly negative reactions from strangers. Mostly verbal and not long tirades, the few instance that started to get physical were quickly resolved in my favor.

[FurPus63]

I just have to say that there's a certain wisdom that needs to be possessed by the person who decides to tell. I can't help but agree with those who say not to unless you know your wife will be able to emotionally and psychologically handle it. There are those (like myself) who know their wives well enough to understand they (for whatever reason) do not have the maturity grapple with all that you're telling them. We each have to choose who we tell, when and why? With each person including our spouse or SO. It's about knowing your spouse well enough to have a good educated guess as to how she will react and judging the decision to tell or not on whether or not your choosing to tell will do more or less harm to her and your marriage/relationship.

Is it simular to having an affair? Yes it is. In some cases this could be more damaging to her than an affair. Remember once she knows more than likely the "secret" will get out. Many lives who are unaccepting could be hurt by you deciding to tell her. I will say this. There are many things that men (and women) keep secret from there spouses for many reasons. Some men watch Porn and don't want their spouse to know and visa versa! Some men hide their alcoholsim or addiction or use of drugs like marijuanna etc.... Some men go "out with the boys" to play cards, golf, etc... and don't want their wife to know for fear of a bad emotional reaction. Are these people "cheating" on their wives or doing something deceitful and/or evil? There are many things (not all of them "bad") that spouses do and don't share with each other. There are some women who can handle all that their spouse does, desires, etc... and if you're spouse is one of those then I say "tell." If not there's nothing wrong with trying to keep the secret.

Paulette

[suzy1]

No, it's not. Ask the wives. You KNOW what they'll say, that they would liked to have been told sooner rather than after years and years of marriage.



No, it's not the best thing to do. Do you think they can hide forever? Look at Karren Hutton! She got caught, and a bunch of us told her she would and how coming clean before is better...but she didn't listen. She even did things that INCREASED the possibility that she would get caught, rather self destructive, but my guess is that she subconsciously wanted to be caught and chose that way to "tell" because she was too scared to do it directly.



Being transgendered/crossdressing/whatever IS a part of our reality...trying to hide it and keep it hidden from those closest to us is futile, and probably not good for us as a whole. One of the things my family told me is how they were disappointed in that I hid it and didn't trust iin their love for me, and that hurt their feelings.

When telling, I think sooner and earlier is better than later, by sooner I mean BEFORE marriage.

Veronica

This is just your opinion Varonica.
It would be nice not to word it as though it’s the irrefutable truth.

When I said the subject is controversial, I was obviously talking about the members here in general.

Do I think I can hide it for ever? Yes. How do I know? Because I did. From the age of three! And I am obviously not the only one here that keeps it from there wife or family. Life is not all black and white Varonica.

You are seeing things from your own narrow point of view Varonica.
We must have empathy and understanding for others in this world.

[Noortje]

Reading the experiences of people on this forum taught me that hiding and lying are not the only options. It showed me that sometimes there IS a good outcome to coming out. It gave me the courage to fess up to my girlfriend. Her reaction was far more positive than I expected it to be. I think that it is good that all the positive stories are here. Maybe the ratio of positive to negative outcomes is not representative of the entire population, but we may never know since crossdressers are such a hidden group. I think there is already plenty of inhibition to coming out due to natural fear of rejection and the expectations we have been taught by society.

Note that many of the positive stories contain a phrase like "after some years", "after counseling", or "it was difficult for both of us". Nobody is saying it is a walk in the park. What they are saying is there is sometimes a reward for those with courage.

[suzy1]

Reading the experiences of people on this forum taught me that hiding and lying are not the only options. It showed me that sometimes there IS a good outcome to coming out. It gave me the courage to fess up to my girlfriend. Her reaction was far more positive than I expected it to be. I think that it is good that all the positive stories are here. Maybe the ratio of positive to negative outcomes is not representative of the entire population, but we may never know since crossdressers are such a hidden group. I think there is already plenty of inhibition to coming out due to natural fear of rejection and the expectations we have been taught by society.

Note that many of the positive stories contain a phrase like "after some years", "after counseling", or "it was difficult for both of us". Nobody is saying it is a walk in the park. What they are saying is there is sometimes a reward for those with courage.

A good point Noortje. I think you are right.
But it’s not always about courage. Sometimes it’s about what’s in the best interest for everybody. Especially the children.

[LeaP]

I think you missed the point I was making. I don't understand the response?

I was agreeing, basically just saying that I wasn't here for the prior threads, that though I'm out, I still find the discussions relevant. I would hate to see such discussions end just because people get tired of going over old territory.

Sorry for the confusion!

Lea

[jillleanne]

This has to be one of the hardest topics to discuss. It all comes down to who you are within. I cannot speak for others obviously but I can relay my story and why I came out and am loving every second of my life since.
I can tell you this: If you, as I did, reach a point in your life where the truth becomes more important than the lies, the result of the action becomes negligible, meaning, I did not give a fiddlers 'f%&*k what the discovery of who I really am would bring at that point. I did not care about the effect it would have on my job, my family, or my friends. I knew only two things at the time.
One: If I wanted to be able to truly give 100% of myself to any relationship, the lies had to stop, and no relationship could succeed with lies, ever. How, can anyone expect any relationship to be successful where one peron is a liar? How fair is that to the other person? How would you like it if your spouse started to lie to you, only for you to find out about it at a later date? What kind of father could I be to my son; what example was I setting by being a liar every day of my life? Is that the kind of role model I wanted to be? How can anyone admire and respect a liar?
Two: When I came out to s/o( we were together about 2 years by then I think), I had reached a point in my life where I knew the only way I could truly be happy with who I am, was to tell her. Did I think about the possible outcomes? Of course I did, who wouldn't? Did I care anymore? Nope, not one bit. The unhappiness of the lies to myself and others, the hiding, the living like a criminal on the run became so strong I had no choice if I wanted to ever see happiness in my life again. I was willing at the time to change my life completely if necessary, it mattered not to me by then. I had had enough!!!!
I also knew IF she did not accept me for who I am, we would part ways and we both would survive; life simply is not that cruel. Sure, we would have many bad days ahead in the short run, but over the long haul, we would both get by. The level of guilt knowing this could happen was overwhelming, but the choice of telling was a non-issue. It had to be done if I intended to keep my sanity.
Everyone must understand when they read this, nothing, at any time in the decision-making process of coming out to my s/o was intentionally done to be selfish. The decision was not intented to be something I did for kicks, it was not intended to cause harm or grief in any way to anyone. It was not intended to do anything except allow me to put the lies to bed forever; to allow me to move forward with my life knowing I am hiding nothing from no one; to allow me to accept who I am completely and live as who I am completely and if someone( my s/o or anyone in the future) was willing to put up with me in a relationship, wonderful! If not, so be it.
Maybe some of you will reach the same plateau as I did, maybe not. Maybe some of you will come to the same conclusions, maybe not. We, are truly, all different. When someone asks what it's like to be out I can only give my experience truthfully. What they do with that information is entirely up to them. It is in no way intented to be a guideline for them or anyone else. It's my life and that's the only one I can share with others. I was fortunate coming out to my s/o, no doubt in my mind and sites like this remind me constantly. I am truly blessed to have someone that is so understanding, accepting, and encouraging of who I am. It can happen to others also. I started expressing my gender enhancements as far back as I can remember, I spent far too many years in a proverbial closet and reached a breaking point and broke the walls that kept me hostage. I have since loved everyday of my life and am finally totally happy with who I am. I will NEVER, ever, move to a closet for anyone, anytime, for any reason. Many of you will never understand or appreciate the feeling I have in living my life as who I am; many of you will never want to, and I understand that completely. We must all do what we deem necessary in our lives to stay on this merry-go-round ride. But for those that are unhappy, those that are curious and may want to take that step out, may need to take that step out to survive like I did, nothing can assist them more than knowing others have done it and made it through the storm. It may not be for everyone and some will not be as fortunate to be accepted initially I'm sure, but for some, like me, it was not a choice, it was part of who I really am.

[jillleanne]

This is just your opinion Varonica.
It would be nice not to word it as though it’s the irrefutable truth.

When I said the subject is controversial, I was obviously talking about the members here in general.

Do I think I can hide it for ever? Yes. How do I know? Because I did. From the age of three! And I am obviously not the only one here that keeps it from there wife or family. Life is not all black and white Varonica.

You are seeing things from your own narrow point of view Varonica.
We must have empathy and understanding for others in this world.

I wasn't able to hide it. I got caught by my father when I was five wearing makeup and fishnets and took a serious whooping for that. Then again by my x wife maybe three times. Miraculously cured though each time with a lie that I would never do it again. Caught by my next door neighbor, cured again with still another lie. Probably caught and lot's of, 'almost caught' by others that I do not remember anymore. Almost caught by my current s/o when she came home early. The chances of one being caught in my opinion? 150%
Remember, for every day that passes one has not been caught, the odds of being caught increases. Reality! If you have never been caught to date by anyone, you best buy lottery tickets.

[Sara Jessica]

This is just your opinion Varonica.
It would be nice not to word it as though it’s the irrefutable truth.

When I said the subject is controversial, I was obviously talking about the members here in general.

Do I think I can hide it for ever? Yes. How do I know? Because I did. From the age of three! And I am obviously not the only one here that keeps it from there wife or family. Life is not all black and white Varonica.

You are seeing things from your own narrow point of view Varonica.
We must have empathy and understanding for others in this world.

I think it's most fair to acknowledge something as a given, that in a perfect world, all things being equal, it is without question best to disclose as early as possible.

But all of our situations are not the same. Eryn points out what this all means for a late-bloomer which lead to her having to do some serious soul searching before coming to a conclusion that she needed to disclose.

The thing is, my POV is from the standpoint that hiding this from a SO was never really on my radar. I disclosed this fairly early in two long-term relationships I had including to the woman I would eventually marry. I have no practical advice for anyone who chooses to hide this from their SO but I can say this. I cannot fathom the stress such hiding would bring on. Worried about stashing your stuff properly, lest it be discovered. Worried about leaving some hint of femininity anywhere in your wake, stray eyeliner, a hair from a wig, etc. Not being able to cultivate one's feminine experience from the standpoint of being open and honest with the one you love, even if she never participates. The whole concept is utterly alien to me but I guess I can at least comprehend why many feel the lie must be perpetuated. I don't envy anyone who is in this situation and feels they must contemplate disclosure so many years into a marriage.

[LeaP]

I noticed in dating relationships that I was always incidental to the relationship and if it was not me it would be another guy in the bed. That it was my money, sperm, sense of humor,health,physical appeal, intellect,good manners,willingness to jump thru hoops, potential marriage partner, ect...always being compared and evaluated to other potential mates like a job interview. Both men and women do this, it is instinctual. One of the greatest failings of human beings is that we treat each other like commodities and not like the living flesh and blood mortal creatures we are, putting the cart before the horse sort of speak.

A positive spin on this is marriages (first especially) are founded on ideals and innocence.

So it's real, but my take is that's why so many people report not really understanding what love is until many years, and many problems into a marriage. There is a difference between marriage expectations and a relationship.

Still, part of what you're describing is the vetting process. A good part of that is legitimately about criteria relating to fit and has its own legitimacy. As my wife says - you can't control with whom you fall in love, but you can control who you put yourself in a position to love. It can, and maybe should feel a bit artificial at times.

Lea

[EllieOPKS]

I think Taz has very valid points. Let me give you my situation and then you can tell me if I am right or wrong.

I am many years into my marriage. More than most on this forum. I decided to actively start cross dressing about 3 years ago. I tried on some of my wifes clothes one day when I was at home alone. I enjoyed it and it was sexually stimulating as well. Should I have told my wife "Guess what I did?" when she returned from her trip? I opted not too, reasoning being what would either of us gain from that conversation? Time goes by and I get the urge so I do it again. NOW should I tell her? The litmus test was still the same - what would either of us gain from that conversation.

I go out and buy my first panties for my occasional dress up. Should I tell her?
Litmus test again. I now wear panties and anything else I can work into my schedule several days a week, now surely I must tell her otherwise I am a liar.

One size panties does not fit all and the same applies to most everything else in life. For the purist that says "confess your sole to your wife", I have to ask, have you ever commented to your wife things like you are getting pudgy around the belly. Your clothes look out of date. You need more make up... and the list goes on. I can answer for you, it might be truths but the answer is no, you don't say these things. Why not? Otherwise If you don't tell her, you are living a lie.

For me, I have found that part of being a good husband is also being a good buffer. If at all possible, I will shelter my wife from anything less than a smile. Can I always buffer, obviously not, but it is my preferred approach to our relationship and it works. I personally belief that the majority of people that insist on running down the hall in their evening gown to tell their wives "Guess what" are more selfish than honest. It could be hurtful or worrisome but you were honest.

This is my perspective, I hope it makes a little sense.

[Acastina]

I was pushed emotionally to the edge by the desire to dress again and was ruining my marriage anyway, so I didn't have much to lose, and couldn't have been much more miserable than I had already made myself. Well as Janice Joplin said, Freedom is having nothing left to lose, and for me she was right. I got lucky, my wife said OK, so now put on a dress and quit being a A--hole, so I did, I've have spend 35 years in a marriage I never felt like I deserved. So I guess I still fall in the maybe it's best to tell, but then maybe you can live with that secret better than I could.
Tina B.

Exactly. The trouble with trying to hide it perfectly is that it slips out in unexpected ways and situations. Something about you just isn't right, and you're just not happy or satisfied. If your underlying relationship is fragile and conditional, you're rolling the dice telling her, but if the basic bond is strong and flexible, your odds are pretty good. Divorce is too often the first response by people who don't realize how devastating that complete disruption of a life together can be, from emotional habits and shared memories to finances, let alone if you're raising children.

There are more wives out there like Tina's than we sometimes give them credit for. If she loves you, she ought to love all of you and not expect you to bottle up something and live a miserable life in denial or self-repression. In fact, the dominant emotion for such wives is often relief that it's nothing more difficult to manage than that (as opposed to, say, an extramarital affair that has divided your affections). It is not self-indulgent or selfish to express something you feel a persistent and compulsive need to express; expressing it is part of you. Deny it at your peril (and hers).

[LeaP]

One size panties does not fit all and the same applies to most everything else in life. For the purist that says "confess your sole to your wife", I have to ask, have you ever commented to your wife things like you are getting pudgy around the belly. Your clothes look out of date. You need more make up... and the list goes on. I can answer for you, it might be truths but the answer is no, you don't say these things. Why not? Otherwise If you don't tell her, you are living a lie.

For me, I have found that part of being a good husband is also being a good buffer. If at all possible, I will shelter my wife from anything less than a smile. Can I always buffer, obviously not, but it is my preferred approach to our relationship and it works. I personally belief that the majority of people that insist on running down the hall in their evening gown to tell their wives "Guess what" are more selfish than honest. It could be hurtful or worrisome but you were honest.

This is my perspective, I hope it makes a little sense.

It does. I just don't agree with any of it, as in fine for you, not for me.

I absolutely disagree with your notions on lying. You have attempted to equate courtesy and minor items with major omissions. I would expect my wife to be able to discern the difference between a cut on her finger and a miscarriage and would expect to hear about the latter.

You're equating protection of a person with protection from themselves - and they are not the same. There are lots of crossdressers whose wives know but prefer not to see - but they've made that choice themselves. I take the choice away from her and I'd feel as though I were treating her as a child or chattel.

Also, my wife doesn't need to be protected from me, by me! Think about the inherent conflict in that. Who's really being protected?

Lea

[VeronicaMoonlit]

when I came out to my (now ex) wife back around 1998, I didn't have the luxury of this forum.

There were other similar places in 1998. USENET in particular (alt.support.crossdressing) where you would have seen pretty much the same thing you're seeing here.

I didn't have GG's telling me what i really did wrong was lie, and nor did I have the butt-kisser CDs agreeing with the GG's.

The GG's are literally correct, and it's not butt-kissing to agree with them. If you had been on USENET in 1998 you would have had people tell you to tell before marriage, just like some of us do here.

Certainly a good policy, but not terribly useful to those of us who are "late bloomers."

True, but my goal is to reduce and prevent "late blooming", then there would be less problems, no? The more people deal with this and tell before getting involved in serious relationships the fewer "I came to terms with it and told my wife after 20 years of marriage." or "my wife found my stash after 30 years" issues we will see. Prevention, prevention prevention

This is just your opinion Varonica.
It would be nice not to word it as though it’s the irrefutable truth.

What? You're saying the GG's "don't" want to be told sooner rather than later?

When I said the subject is controversial, I was obviously talking about the members here in general.

And what do you mean by that? I'm a member, the GG's are members...the only people who consider it controversial are folks like you who are so used to hiding and lying that you find it hard to stop doing it.

Do I think I can hide it for ever? Yes. How do I know? Because I did. From the age of three! And I am obviously not the only one here that keeps it from there wife or family.

So you hide it.....does hiding it make you happier? Or are you still lonely and scared and unhappy? Don't you wish you didn't have to hide it when you were 3?, or when you were 13 or when you were 33? Weren't you afraid, or even paranoid about leaving a loose item, or someone stumbling into you stash?

You are seeing things from your own narrow point of view Varonica.

Considering that others in this very thread said the same things I did, it's not narrow at all is it. Did you PM them and call them "morons" as well? I know you don't like me because I say things that you don't want to hear, but covering years and going "not listening" isn't going to solve these issues in the long term is it.

We must have empathy and understanding for others in this world.

I do have empathy, which is why I say to tell early and sooner, to PREVENT things like these:

"I'm SuzyStayups from Hobbitshire and I just told my wife after 20 years of marriage. It's hard...she is not happy with me withholding the truth from her and she's not willing to trust me enough to go to a support group meeting not even the Beaumont society because she heard that some support groups are simply cover for some girls going out clubbing and having lads ogle them and buy them pints."

or

"I'm SuzyHoldups from Framinhamshire in the home counties and after 30 years of marriage my wife just found my stash of stuff I bought from Transformations. She found my nail varnish at first and said where did it come from since it wasn't her colour, and accused me of having and affair, then she found the rest of the stuff including the wig and pictures She is now saying I look more ridiculous than a panto dame and am a pervert, and that she is calling a solicitor in the morning. What do I do."

Let's be honest here, those are not as good as outcomes as the following might be:

"I'm SuzyTrouserSocks from Arvoreendefendershire After doing counseling, reading and soul searching I've decided that I'm not transition tracked so I met this girl and told her on the third date that I like to crossdress...so she can make up her own mind if she wants to see me or not. I've been honest and told her about my fantasies of having sex with women while dressed and that I go out shopping on the high street dressed. I've told her that this is a part of me that's been there since I was wee tyke and while it ebbs and flows, it's not going to stop completely. I've told her that I've thought about beard removal but don't want to do oestrogen because I like my penis just the way it is."

Now do you understand? I say the things I do, not because I don't have empathy, but because I DO have mpathy and can remember how it was when I hid it, and when I was young and don't want other people to feel alone, scared, isolated and afraid like I did. The more we normalize this thing by being more open, the better it is for future generations.

The chances of one being caught in my opinion? 150%
Remember, for every day that passes one has not been caught, the odds of being caught increases. Reality! If you have never been caught to date by anyone, you best buy lottery tickets.

Darn right.

I think it's most fair to acknowledge something as a given, that in a perfect world, all things being equal, it is without question best to disclose as early as possible.

Most certainly.

I cannot fathom the stress such hiding would bring on. Worried about stashing your stuff properly, lest it be discovered. Worried about leaving some hint of femininity anywhere in your wake, stray eyeliner, a hair from a wig, etc. Not being able to cultivate one's feminine experience from the standpoint of being open and honest with the one you love, even if she never participates.

Do you see that, Suzy, that's another reason I say what I do. The hiding was VERY stressful amazingly stressful.

I don't envy anyone who is in this situation and feels they must contemplate disclosure so many years into a marriage.

Neither do I, but many many times I have regrets and wish I had told sooner.

I decided to actively start cross dressing about 3 years ago.

I first actively crossdressed 34 years ago, which is one reason I say the things I do. Those of you who start as adults later in life....well you're a touch different....not what I would consider "standard crossdressers" many of you don't identify as transgendered either. But you are rare in forums and in in-person support groups because you don't really fit in amongst those who have been dressing for decades.

I go out and buy my first panties for my occasional dress up. Should I tell her?
Litmus test again. I now wear panties and anything else I can work into my schedule several days a week, now surely I must tell her otherwise I am a liar.

Well I think you crossed the line into "should tell" territory, when it became regular, frequent behavior.
Several days a week is often enough that I think it's become a strong part of your personality.

For the purist that says "confess your sole to your wife", I have to ask, have you ever commented to your wife things like you are getting pudgy around the belly. Your clothes look out of date. You need more make up... and the list goes on. I can answer for you, it might be truths but the answer is no, you don't say these things. Why not? Otherwise If you don't tell her, you are living a lie.

You're comparing apples and oranges there, that is NOT a fair comparison of behaviors.

I personally belief that the majority of people that insist on running down the hall in their evening gown to tell their wives "Guess what" are more selfish than honest. It could be hurtful or worrisome but you were honest.

Sure it might be selfish to wish to remove a ton of guilt, anguish, fear, and lots of other negative emotions by telling, but isn't honesty better than "non honesty"?

Exactly. The trouble with trying to hide it perfectly is that it slips out in unexpected ways and situations. Something about you just isn't right, and you're just not happy or satisfied.

Exactly.

It is not self-indulgent or selfish to express something you feel a persistent and compulsive need to express; expressing it is part of you. Deny it at your peril (and hers).

I agree.

Veronica

[Sophie86]

What? You're saying the GG's "don't" want to be told sooner rather than later?

I can't speak for all GGs, I can only repeat what my wife has said to me before. According to her, if I had told her when we first met, she would have been horrified and she would have run the other way. She's glad that I waited until she had reached a point in her life where she could be told without being squicked out by it. Our 24th anniversary is coming up next month. We've had a great life together, and we have two great children. It would have been a shame to miss out on all that.

To all: Your Mileage Will Almost Certainly Vary.

[Kaz]

Thanks Sophie... for me there are no rules, no systematic fixes.... it is about personal relationships and they all differ. We all differ in terms of what we are prepared to accept and not accept...

I also have had a fantastic marriage and have three daughters and granddaughter... 5 tomorrow! And we will have a great party! I would not trade that for the world. Me being a CD is my issue, not my family's... it is how I choose to deal with it. My family comes first, and my work comes second...

[PretzelGirl]

First, I believe it is better to tell. But that is a belief and far be it for me to tell anyone what they should do.

There always are interesting things that develop the perceptions of those reading posts here and whether we feel it is better to tell or not. Is the amount of stories relevant? Maybe those who end up with marital issues post more because they are more in need of support. I don't know <scratches head>.

But one thing I do believe comes into play is attitude. Think about it. Those who tell about it before a relationship gets real serious may just display things in a more positive light. Those who get busted much later may be trying to explain it from a position of fear, embarrassment, or defeat. This could certainly skew the outcomes. And to me, it certainly **seems** from the stories that telling before yields more positive results that trying tell much farther down the line. But again, the picture is not always perfectly clear.

So back to the OP, yes a person may get some level of courage based on the posts here. I will also contend that a person may get too scared to tell based on the posts here. It swings both ways. So it is incumbent on us to not only advise but present knowledge for a person to consume towards making a decision and not a decision itself. The person getting the information is responsible for dealing with the outcome, so they must take the time to digest everything and make the decision that they are prepared to live with. There is no right or wrong, only lives......

[DebbieL]

In the ideal world, we could all be completely honest about our desire to cross-dress and/or our gender identity long before we got married and attract women who actually WANTED a more feminine man.

Unfortunately, many like me, who knew we were transgendered at a very early age (I was actually born intersexed), made the mistake of coming out without even knowing what it was, and then suffered severely for it. I was brutally assaulted on a regular basis, and often had asthma attacks so severe that I would end up in the hospital for two weeks or more at a time. In the worst years, 7, 8, and 9, I was in the hospital every 8 weeks for around 2 weeks per visit.

When I had to take showers in 7th grade, the other boys could see I was different and they assumed that I was gay. I didn't mind being called a fairy or a queer (which I interpreted as queen), but the LAST thing I wanted was to have sex of any kind with the kind of boys/men who were beating me up on a daily basis, whipping me with towels so bad the welts often bled through my shirt.

When my voice dropped, I grew to 6 feet tall, and my feet got too big to wear popular women's shoe styles, I considered the possibility of never being able to transition and got so depressed that I just wanted to end it. Two of my cousins, both of whom had gender and sexual preference issues, actually DID kill themselves. I turned to booze, drugs, and dangerous friends and situations - then drank to black-outs when Debbie would take over and shoot off her mouth, sounding like a hard core feminist.

I kept hoping that once I started dating and/or having sex, that it would be enough to make the desire go away, maybe I would like being a man if I got the benefits. I learned to please women when I was 15, but was too ticklish and sensitive for them to reciprocate. I finally lost my virginity at 21, and she had to tie me down to do it. Instead of losing the desire to dress, I wanted it even more. When I finally told my partner after being together for 4 months, she broke it off the next morning by leaving a note on the windshield wiper of my car.

After 3 years of no relationships, alcoholism, drug addiction, mental health treatment (they refused to discuss gender issues, or allow me to discuss them - 1977). I finally agreed to a blind date with a girl who dressed like a lumberjack, hung around with a "sister" who was built like a fullback, and had a first husband who hung around the YMCA. About 2 weeks after we moved in together, I told her I was a cross-dresser. She acted like she was OK with it, but it turned out she was lying. She acted very accepting for a few months, and I proposed. Once we were married, she suddenly lost all interest in sex, threatened to out me to my fundamentalist Christian grandfather, and told me that if I ever cheated on me she would take me for everything. After having sex with other men at a bachelorette party, she came home, told me to dress up, tied me up, and ball gagged me. I assumed we were going to have some kinky fun. She even put on a corset and stockings for the occasion. That's when she pulled the condom I had put on the headboard, threw it in the trash, and told me "We won't be using that today". I tried to protest through the gag, but she just blindfolded me and told me that I'd better enjoy it because I'd be paying for it for the next 20 years. We didn't have sex again, but she got pregnant. We had sex twice a year for the next 3 years. After going to a male stripper bar and coming home at 4 AM smelling like a peep show or porno theater, she took me shopping at my favorite shoe stores, went to Fredericks with me, and wore a short skirt for the trip. She told me to go to a meeting and to plan on having sex that night because those male strippers had put her in the mood. That night, she told me she wanted "Slam bam thank you mam, I had to leave my pants on, no foreplay, no shower, and don't take off any of my clothes. A few weeks later she was pregnant with my daughter.

For 9 years I endured the abuse that finally led to family counseling. The counselor said that we had the textbook definition of a healthy marriage, except for the sex issue. He gave us some exercises to do, and then one day she told me she wanted to tie me up and turn me on. After I was helpless, she raped me with a candle. I couldn't do anything about it, so I decided to just relax and enjoy it. Ironically, that night, she had flashbacks of her own rape, and started hitting me so hard that I woke up. I woke her up and she told me about her dream. We went back to the therapist and told him about both incidents. He recognized the rape for what it was, and after a private session with Leslie, and a private session with me where he asked me about where I would REALLY like to go, he realized that he was dealing with domestic abuse. He told us we had 3 options, stay celibate, have affairs, or get divorced. I stayed celibate (Leslie threatened to take me for everything if I had an affair), she had an affair, and her boyfriend didn't want to share and insisted we get a divorce. I told them they had to wait a year to be sure that they really wanted to stay married to each other. It was only when I asked her for my credit cards and financial statements that she decided to take the children and move out. During their year of sorting that out, I started coming out. Unfortunately, Colorado Springs is the heart of "Focus on the Family", has 6 military bases, and I was working for a company run by former navy officers.

I suspect she may have also played a role in the sexual harassment going on at work. She had gone to company events and talked with coworkers, but I know that there were other people relaying information.

I've tried to post this information but it get's edited for TMI.

I FINALLY got gender counseling and it was clear that I was an obvious case for transition. My therapist gave me assignments, going to different social events, different environments, and different activities. I moved to Denver, a larger city with a large GLBT population. I spent more and more time "en-femme", and eventually met a bisexual woman who considered me the answer to her wildest dreams. She encouraged me to transition, she brought home girl-friends, and encouraged me to watch and to participate with them as a "lesbian". My ex was having trouble with the kids and asked me to take primary custody. I moved into a larger place so we'd have room for the kids and they would have good schools, and then my ex changed her mind and told me she just needed more help with day-care. The irony is that she was on disability, her husband was on disability, and I was paying half my after-tax income as child-support. She actually had more to live on than I did. Finances got tight, and then the supportive woman got together with an old friend who offered a "deal" worth millions to her. He also made it clear that he didn't want to share with me, and that she had to break it off. Right after Thanksgiving dinner, he told me that he was going to marry her.

I continued the efforts to transition, and was only going to work in drab. I eventually went to a doctor to get a vasectomy and asked if I could get an orchiectomy instead. After trying to talk me out of it for about 15 minutes, I told him I was transgendered and wanted to transition. He told me that he legally couldn't do the orchiectomy. I got the Vasectomy, and it was a good thing. About 6 weeks after the procedure, a girl tried to seduce me, and suddenly lost interest when she found out that I was sterile. It turned out that she was already pregnant and knew it. She was hoping to name me as the father.

I finally moved to New York, where I knew there was a large transgender population, and met a woman who met me at a Halloween dance. She called me and told me that transvestites really turned her on. We ended up in an on-again off-again long distance relationship that was on in September, October and November, then again in February, March, and April. We ended up spending almost 2 years of actual time together. When I decided I wanted more of a real relationship, we couldn't agree on where to live. We finally broke up.

When I tried computer dating, I did it because my father had met my stepmother online, my sister had met her husband online, and several others had done the same. However, I decided to be honest up-front, and included a bit about being transgendered, and several pictures of myself as Debbie. About 1000 women looked and moved on. But 6 women were genuinely interested and wanted to meet me in person. One of them was such a good match, we talked for about 2 weeks on the phone and when she met me in person, she made it very clear that she was interested and she was serious. We got married about 2 years later.

We still go out as girls together, and sometimes I'm the girl and she's the boy. Right now, she's growing her hair for locks of love, but when it's long enough she will probably cut it short enough that she can almost pass as a guy. When I'm with her, I can almost pass as a girl.

There is no sure fire reaction. Things may not go well. Paying child support made it impossible to save up enough for things like counseling, electrolysis, and hormones.

If you're young and you don't have kids yet, tell the wife right away. She might leave you, she might hate you, and she might divorce you, but then you have the chance to meet a woman who has been looking for a boy/girl just like you.

If you're married, and you have always been a bit of a "sissy" and she has been teasing you about how feminine you are, embrace it, let her know you like it, and let her know that you are more than happy to let her wear the pants if you can wear the skirt once in a while. If she freaks, you can keep it light. But if she's accepting, she might just take you up on your offer, maybe even asking you to dress up.

If you're one of those who has always tried to play "Mr Macho", has openly engaged in gay-bashing, joined the fundamentalist Christian Church, always voted Republican, and watch Fox news for several hours every day, then you've made your bed, and it's stuffed with lies. Now sleep in it. Just remember that if she ever finds your bra, or your panties, she is not going to believe they are yours, and when she finds out, she will use it to manipulate you, blackmail you, and control you. It might even be revenge for how you have treated her.

If you have kids, your wife may have boundaries. She may not want the kids to know.

She may want you to do something for her, probably involving cleaning supplies. It might be her least favorite chores like cleaning the bathrooms, washing the dishes, or doing the Laundry. Whatever she asks, you'd better do it. You need to rebuild trust, and that involves making and keeping promises. If you make promises to do things she wants you to do, and don't keep simple promises like doing the laundry by the end of the week-end, how can she trust you not to go dressing in public, not to have an affair, or not to fool around with men? She may assume the worst, because media isn't exactly generous with transsexuals. She may even be thinking "Dressed to Kill" and worry that getting you turned on might cause problems.

If you think you can lie for 10, 15, or 20 years, be a sexist pig, act macho, drink beer and go to football games, and treat clothes shopping like it was torture, then expect her to be loving and accepting when you tell her you wanted to wear her clothes, that really is delusional thinking.