Question to CDs only, from Anonymous GG

[GeminaRenee]

I guess it just depends on the girl! All of us come from varied backgrounds, age groups, socio-economic groups, etc, etc. And all of us have been dressing at different frequencies for varying numbers of years. And then there's just the level of interest: some of us will only ever get excited about wearing frilly panties, while others will want to explore more complex concepts of womanhood. Someone brought up the excellent point that our CD sides haven't necessarily had time to develop in the same way that our male sides have. I can say for me, I might be 32 irl, but my CD is 21, tops. That doesn't just develop overnight. Shoot, when I was 21, I had about 3 pairs of panties, 10 lipsticks, an ugly pair of heels, and no sophistication at all (to say that I'm sophisticated today might be stretch, even, but relatively speaking, hehe...). Sooo, for numerous reasons, you're going to get a wide variety of ages, interests, and attitudes.

I guess the best thing you can take out of this is to not judge your SO by how anyone else in a CD forum acts. To do so is to sell both he and yourself short. Actually, it's a good lesson in life in general: judge others on their own merits, not on the merits of those around them, or those that you might initially lump into that same category. We're all different, more or less.

[ReineD]

I'll post my two cents now since I haven't so far.

I know there are the tons of girly, tee-hee, slumber party (as you aptly named it) type of posts here. Do these CDers really believe this is what women are all about, or are they just here having fun and blowing off steam, on a break from their lives of being husbands and fathers? Probably both. For some it is just a small aspect of their lives, while others may well have twisted views this is what women are all about. I tend to think for the average CD, this is just what they do on their leisure time. One CDer may well post a thread about dealing with having been seen by a neighbor, and then the next second on a lark may well post he is wearing pink panties in the panty thread because he can do this here and he can't talk about this around the water cooler at work. And, well, men like panties for whole other reasons than we do. So they notice them and they like to talk about them.

And then he logs off the forum, and brings his wife's car in to get an oil change, or he mows the lawn. Or he helps with the kids.

But there are also many threads here that deal with the more serious issues of guilt, shame, purging, how to deal with this in marriages and with their families, how to define it for themselves, where is it going or not, is it pink fog, how to maintain balance. Not all the threads are about the frivolous stuff.

And then there are the more practical threads: how to be convincing. How to put on makeup. How to take care of wigs or what is the best way to cover beard shadow. This doesn't mean it is all they think about, just where else can they go to ask these questions and learn?

And then after all the effort of putting themselves together, there are the threads showing off the results, which if they are closeted, this is one of the few places they can do this.

But I agree ... when I first came here, the more mundane or practical type threads, or the struggling type threads totally were outside my radar. I was confused about a lot of things ... there were things my SO wanted to do that I didn't understand (like why on earth would he want a myspace profile, why would he want to post pics, why would he want to meet other people dressed, wasn't I enough, etc), and so every post that hinted at fantasies of having women body parts and wanting men did stand out for me way more than all the others. I became convinced of many things that were not true for him, just based on what I was reading here and this bothered him a lot. I've sorted through it now, but I do undertand what you are going through.

The thing to remember in a forum this size, is different CDs will post in different areas and will have different motives and interests, and the CDs who aren't in a pink fog posting what seems to us the sillier stuff, or for whom it is a small part of who they are and they also appreciate their wives and their wives' lives, kinda resent being lumped in together with the more superficial way of defining what a CD is all about. Just like I don't like to be lumped in with a stereotypical view of womanhood. So I think it's important (not just for you but for everyone else including me, other CDs, and other GGs) to keep in mind the wide variety of the personalities here.

Anyway, I hope the responses you received here helped you.

[VioletJourney]

To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

We may be males and females, but we're all humans first. Male or female, we all feel love, grapple with finding a purpose, and overcome adversity. If you ask me, we all have a ton in common already, so what's wrong with playing around with some of the superficial differences? Besides, some of us, like myself, aren't trying to "know what it takes to be a woman". We just like to doll up and look pretty, what's the harm in that?

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

You don't? That's interesting. I imitate people all the time, that's what having heroes is for. My style of dress is often influenced by my musical idols.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

Certainly. In comparison with female friends of mine, I'm having a much harder time finding dates. Guys seem to flock to girls but it doesn't work the other way around; and girls merely have to choose the right person from the lineup of interested guys.

[Dana7]

Respect yourselves more cause what I seem to just read about most of the time is a bunch of men all ages acting like middle school girls

Thanks for your clarification. This thread has added a lot to my understanding of myself and my fellow CDers. It is easy to see that there is a wide range of maturity, attitudes, and practices among CDers. Not all want to be women, some want to be fully women, some just do it for a sexual thrill, others for the peace it gives them.

Some of what I sense from you is that you want us to acknowledge that being a woman is much more than just externals. More than just a "slumber party". I also hear in your commentary that women don't want to be thrust on the sidelines by our CD activity when it becomes the object of obsession and we lose recognition of our real relationships with the women in our lives and what their wants and needs are. I do understand what "Pink Fog" can do. I recognize your concerns on these points, they are very valid.

But I think that you should recognize that we human beings can get sidelined by many obsessive behaviors. For every CDer's SO that bemoans the pink fog, there are at least ten sports widows. Here's an excerpt from a website devoted to those neglected women:

"In the U.S. alone, there are well over 62 million sports fans and at least 19 million sports addicts, and they are 92% male, ages 18-54. (See more details in my entry entitled The Definition of a Sports Fan.)

"If you think about it, conservatively, behind these sports fans at least half -- or 40 million – have a disenfranchised wife, girlfriend, mother, partner or reluctant companion, who is overshadowed or excluded from “The Club.”
http://www.sportswidow.com/features/...ports_wid.html

This is in no way intended to be interpreted as an excuse for the neglecting our loved ones, it is just an explanation that we as humans are prone to all kinds of obsessive behavior and excessive CDing is only one of them. Neglected women exist all over the map, and it is due to many more reasons than "Pink Fog". Having said that, I agree with you that it is incumbent on a caring spouse/BF/SO to give his woman the attention and affection she deserves. But GG women need to do their part too. If you feel neglected by your CDer, by all means, speak up! Good relationships are built on good communication. And I think that we as CDers are more sensitive than the average male.

As I wrote earlier, I believe that as CDers, we are uniquely equipped to provide emotional support and sensitivity for our women.

Quoting my earlier post:
"We have a depth of compassion and emotion that goes beyond the average male. Because of our uniquely amplified feminine perceptions, we CDers strive to empathize with all of women's sufferings and concerns. Feeling feminine also includes feeling nurturing, caring, and loving. In our femininity, we extend ourselves and act more civil, more gentle, and more loving than our cisgendered fellows."
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...t=#post2670863

Ultimately, as has been already written in this thread, CDing is a very individual thing, and as Marissa so aptly put it, "The only way to know what level of commitment your SO is at, is to have an open dialogue with your SO."

Your point, if I understand it correctly, (please tell me if I am wrong) is that women should behave like women, and not like little girls. I am sensing here that you are looking for a mature attitude toward womanhood on the part of CDers.

I agree that this is a desirable thing, but I think that you should remember that every GG woman was once a silly middle school girl. I can remember when I was young that all I would ever hear from the girls was giggling and silliness. I didn't put a judgment on that, I just recognized that they were having fun. There's nothing wrong with that, is there?

In fact, one of the most famous songs about girls is the 80's hit released by Cyndi Lauper, "Girls Just Want to Have Fun".

This is part of what Wikipedia says about the song:
"The song was written by Robert Hazard, who recorded it in 1979. He wrote it from a male point of view. For Lauper's version, she changed the lyrics slightly to allow it to be performed by a female and Hazard approved the minor changes. Her version appeared on her 1983 debut solo record, She's So Unusual. It is a synthesizer-backed anthem about the roles of women in society and is considered by many to be a feminist classic of the era. Gillian G. Gaar, author of She's a Rebel: The History of Women in Rock & Roll (2002), described the single and corresponding video as a "strong feminist statement", an "anthem of female solidarity" and a "playful romp celebrating female camaraderie."[5]"

This famous song about girls and their ultimate desires was written by a man but became known as a "feminist classic." Is it so hard to believe that men can empathize with women's true feelings? If anything, the expressions you see on this site are very much a playful romp celebrating CD camaraderie! You can see all levels of maturity here from baby girls, (yes, some fem fetishists like to wear diapers) to full-grown, sophisticated ladies. But even the most mature of us, like real women, have the urge to just go out and have fun, the way young girls do. We want to giggle, joke, play, and let down our hair with each other. And this site is one of the very very few venues where we have the freedom to do so.

I respect your desire to see more maturity in the threads and posts here. I think you probably do see more of that feminine maturity on the TS side where they experience more of the real-life issues that real GGs face. Please understand that for the most part our playfulness and immaturity is no reflection on how we really view women in their proper roles and lives. Speaking for myself, I have the highest regard for women's sensibilities, their practicality, their dignity, and their personal feelings. But as CDers, when we come here we are girls wanting to have fun.

As I have written before, CDing is very much rooted in the imagination as it is rooted in reality. But we by necessity model ourselves after reality. I like to think that we look at the best parts of womanhood and emulate them. I was once a middle school teacher. I've listened into more than a few younger GG girl's conversations. Besides talking about boys, I have found that they discuss makeup, jewelry, perfume and clothes quite a bit. Even mature women talk about that. Do we fault women because they are so concerned about their outward appearance? Most sincerely not! Beauty and fashion are billion-dollar industries!

And so when we CDers chat, we chat about what we feel. Many of us are new to the world of things feminine. And to many of us, it is quite exciting. It is just as exciting to a man learning feminine things as it is exciting for a woman learning about things traditionally in men's domain. If you are an older woman, you know just what I mean. Women have not always enjoyed the freedoms to enter those domains that they do now. Some of us are more mature, and some are just learning. But we all just want to have fun here.

So I guess that what I am saying is, you might look at our less mature CDers in the way a mom looks at her girls growing up.

Let us have our fun.

[MandyLee]

I'm a CD rellised at about 5 that dressing up just felt right. I don't pretend to think I can really know what its like to be a woman heck I still can't figure out woman. My S/O says she see a change in me when I spend time enfem. She says i show a more female side. At times she forgets I'm not female as my whole being changes to a softer and fem. manerisums.
What sucks is male or female I still cant spell worth a S@#$. LOL

[jaleecd]

Kim and Amy
I see something in your answers that resonate with growing up experiences that may of tipped us

toward emulating the positive influences modeled in our lives. I believe that the love,protection and sacrifices shown in comparison to the drunken rages and abuse by the men(word used young in cheek)in our moms lives left us with inner vow to not be that person, and to try to find other role models. mom did her best in a time where She had little choices in jobs and opportunities. I started to try Her clothes during this time trying to find something I could not define within myself.
I found modles of hyper maleness inJohn Wane ,etc, but deep in side I related with the courage shown me by my Mom.
I think the dressing in women's garb is an acknowledgement of the values and love She lived to raise Her two boys.
The person She was, topped the example shown by the abusive drunks that She seemed to drag home and marry.
maybe the fleeing to the softness, color and styles of women's clothes are an escape from the male side that
I can't always trust to be loving and caring in a non hurtful way.
I think that the replys showed a lot of heart in trying to explain hidden reasons of behavior, that They can't put words to. jmho

[Jenny Doolittle]

I cant help but feel the person asking the question already has an opinion made up on this topic and all the answers she reads will not change her perspective.

With that said, I realize I will never know truly what it is to be a woman. I in some ways feel privileged to have a mild understanding of certain aspects. (how difficult it is to keep your pants off a dirty floor when peeing) Or ( how special it is when you are offered a compliment from a nice person on the street) But Yes I have to agree I will never know the hardships that are hidden deep inside her question.

I also must say, after attending some local transgender meetings, there are many who are much more committed then I to living out that side of their personality that drives them to be true to their gender body. Does that make me a bad person because I am not as committed as another? I hope not, because I am simply living my own life as best I can and am not judging others for their own beliefs.

[Connie D50]

To the unknown GG

I'm married I have 2 daughters and 2 grandaughters what I want most in my crossdressing is the friendship that 2 girls can have that no 2 men would ever have. I have seen it close up and I think it's a beatufull thing.

Connie

[Cheryl T]

[SIZE=3]To Anonymous GG:
Thanks for the clarification. Seems many of us misinterpreted or over exagerated the questions and went on many tangents.

As for the threads that you found disturbing about body parts and panties and such. I have to say that many times I too cringe when I see those and also when I read the posts about how "girly I feel" and the like.
When my wife first came to the forum I warned her that we run the gamut of likes from the pure fetishist to the TS and everywhere in between. I remember years ago when the only way to talk to another was through the ads in magazines and exchanged letters. I would receive responses from people who loved to wear slips (10 at a time) or other things in the vein. It would scare me for it was not what I am about and not who I wanted to talk to about this part of my life. [/SIZE][SIZE=3]
She was hesitant when we first attended our Tri-Ess meetings. She did not know what to expect, from me and from the others. Soon she found out that so many of us had similar backgrounds, most were well educated, we had similar likes and dislikes as well as the most outstanding feature...we were just average people trying to cope with something we didn't understand ourselves.
One comment she made to me that was revealing was as we returned from a meeting one night. She turned to me and said, "you act very feminine". My response was, "I'm not acting". This is part of me and this is how it finds expression. I didn't ask for this, I didn't request that Santa bring it one Christmas. It's just who I am and how I was born. I only know that when I can express this and let the world see Cheryl for who she is it makes me much happier, much more at peace with myself and with the world.
I can also say that it has brought my wife and I closer. As I told her, years ago, when she would want to go shopping. I would find a reason not to go because I knew I would want to look at the clothes and watch the women in the mall...not because I wanted them, but because I wanted to observe them, to see what they were wearing, what looked good on them and what didn't. I felt that this would be too apparent to her and it would give me away. Besides, if she went then I would be able to "steal" some time for me to dress. Now she allows me to be me and I can dress whenever I please at home. I spend every minute I can with her because that's where I want to be, whether it is shopping or cleaning the house. I no longer "steal" time because I am free to have that time whenever I wish, so long as it does not affect us, our friends, and our home. I am much more of a husband than I had been, because I am much more ME than I ever was.
The running joke between us is now when we go shopping (me dressed much of the time) we will see some cute skirt on the rack and invariably it's my size. She will just shake her head and laugh.

It's not about what color panties I have on, or if I'd prefer a vagina or boobs. I participate in those flights of fancy just to be social, but they do feel awkward to me also at times. They feel so shallow, but after all, it is part of this dressing we do.

If knowing what being a woman is means understanding, sensitivity, caring and sharing then yes, I do know what it is, and my dressing allows me to express that without all the guilt and fear that a man feels when he must express those things. Men inherently are afraid to do that because they are all brought up to believe that those things mean he is a sissy. A man must be macho, in charge at all times and that's just not me. My expression of my femininity is an expression of the real me. I am complex, I am real, I am human.

I hope I haven't added just another tangent and that I've helped clarify one girl's feelings about all this.
[/SIZE]

[ReineD]

[SIZE="1"]....................[/SIZE]

I wanted to clear up and say that I had this question not cause of my husband and things he has posted on the forums but because of what I have seen you all post on the forums and talk about and such so it just brought this general question up for me cause I am sure other GGs in the past or even current GGs and GGs of the future will be curious too. Plus it gave you all time as well to reflect on things which I noticed some doing.

[Lorileah]

Meh, I just consider the "what are you wearing" posts as a right of passage. They are mostly from people who are so new that anything is exciting and wondrous. Been there done that, threw out the thongs because they were not comfortable

But I do think there are many many more threads that actually have substance. It has taken me years to sort of figure out which those are though....like the shoe threads. I mean really, exactly what size shoes do I wear and where can I get them?

[Gwendolyn]

I pretty much NEVER post here...but I felt I had to contribute my effort to help answer the question asked.

You ask the questions with the caveat attached (this applies to CDs only, not TSs). That is part of your problem in understanding the forums.

If you imagine this forums as a football field and put all the crossdressers (by the definition I think you are using) in one end zone and all the transexual posters (once again in the definition I think you are using) in the opposite end zone you will still probably have 80% or more of the posters on this standing somewhere on the field and unsure of where they should be standing.

Furthermore if you were to make a poll and list 100 options instead of 2 to group folks on the board into you would STILL have people stuck out on the field wondering where they fit in as none of the 100 options described them.

Ultimately any person that answers your questions are answering them for only themselves. Each person is an individual and everyone has motives and takes actions (like choosing what thread to post to) appropriate to how they feel individually. You aren't going to get any sort of consensus answer like you are hoping.

It would be like if I had a room of people who all had the same favorite color and expected all of their reasons for picking that color to be the same or even related to each other.

[Anna Lorree]

I consider myself transgendered, which includes crossdressing, but may go further. I'm not sure yet. My experience as a TG person is different than many TG people here, my experience "as a man" is different than many men out there, and I am sure that many GG's have very different experiences, as well. This is not meant to belittle the curious GG, but to help answer her. No, I likely have very little understanding of what being a "real woman" means to the original GG or any other GG out there. I have a concept of some of it (from talking to my wife and her experiences), but obviously I can never give birth or any of the biological roles of a GG. I aspire to at least some of the social roles of being a woman, but acknowledge that I probably don't make the grade. Is the grass greener? I have no idea, because I can never really get there.

As a TG person who crossdresses, I can say that I am trying to emulate femininity to express that which I feel inside. I have wanted to express femininity since I was a young child. When a GG dresses nicely, I assume she wants to catch some male attention, whether she acts on that or not. As I try to emulate femininity, the best ruler to measure my success is attention from men. I have no plans of acting on that, but it pays me a compliment none the less. I do have other curiouscities, but this isn't the forum for that. If she wishes, she may ask me in a private message. I promise to not disclose her identity. I doubt she will, and that's OK, too.

Anna

[docrobbysherry]

Next time u see a GG question like this, JUST ANSWER IT YOURSELF!

I'll post my two cents now since I haven't so far.

I know there are the tons of girly, tee-hee, slumber party (as you aptly named it) type of posts here. Do these CDers really believe this is what women are all about, or are they just here having fun and blowing off steam, on a break from their lives of being husbands and fathers? Probably both. For some it is just a small aspect of their lives, while others may well have twisted views this is what women are all about. I tend to think for the average CD, this is just what they do on their leisure time. One CDer may well post a thread about dealing with having been seen by a neighbor, and then the next second on a lark may well post he is wearing pink panties in the panty thread because he can do this here and he can't talk about this around the water cooler at work. And, well, men like panties for whole other reasons than we do. So they notice them and they like to talk about them.

And then he logs off the forum, and brings his wife's car in to get an oil change, or he mows the lawn. Or he helps with the kids.

But there are also many threads here that deal with the more serious issues of guilt, shame, purging, how to deal with this in marriages and with their families, how to define it for themselves, where is it going or not, is it pink fog, how to maintain balance. Not all the threads are about the frivolous stuff.

And then there are the more practical threads: how to be convincing. How to put on makeup. How to take care of wigs or what is the best way to cover beard shadow. This doesn't mean it is all they think about, just where else can they go to ask these questions and learn?

And then after all the effort of putting themselves together, there are the threads showing off the results, which if they are closeted, this is one of the few places they can do this.

But I agree ... when I first came here, the more mundane or practical type threads, or the struggling type threads totally were outside my radar. I was confused about a lot of things ... there were things my SO wanted to do that I didn't understand (like why on earth would he want a myspace profile, why would he want to post pics, why would he want to meet other people dressed, wasn't I enough, etc), and so every post that hinted at fantasies of having women body parts and wanting men did stand out for me way more than all the others. I became convinced of many things that were not true for him, just based on what I was reading here and this bothered him a lot. I've sorted through it now, but I do undertand what you are going through.

The thing to remember in a forum this size, is different CDs will post in different areas and will have different motives and interests, and the CDs who aren't in a pink fog posting what seems to us the sillier stuff, or for whom it is a small part of who they are and they also appreciate their wives and their wives' lives, kinda resent being lumped in together with the more superficial way of defining what a CD is all about. Just like I don't like to be lumped in with a stereotypical view of womanhood. So I think it's important (not just for you but for everyone else including me, other CDs, and other GGs) to keep in mind the wide variety of the personalities here.

Anyway, I hope the responses you received here helped you.

After 100+ CD/TG/TS posts, yours answers the thread questions better, more succinctly, and completely than all the others put together!

Not only that, being a GG, u even UNDERSTOOD HER QUESTIONS better than the rest of us!

[TxKimberly]

Next time u see a GG question like this, JUST ANSWER IT YOURSELF!

After 100+ CD/TG/TS posts, yours answers the thread questions better, more succinctly, and completely than all the others put together!

Not only that, being a GG, u even UNDERSTOOD HER QUESTIONS better than the rest of us!

I couldn't agree more Sherry!

[LeaP]

So in the end some took my question to extreme and missed my point and some kinda hit it on the head. Not do you know what it takes to be a woman as in what we deal with in our lives.. but how we act and conduct ourselves our mannerisms. (And yes I do know that does not apply to ALL women there are MANY women who are questionable when it comes to their actions lol. just like every CDer is not the same.)

So, in the end what you were really asking about was whether crossdressers know what it takes to be women as you think they should be and not actually as they are?

Now I understand your confusion.

Lea

[Laurie A]

The thing to remember in a forum this size, is different CDs will post in different areas and will have different motives and interests, and the CDs who aren't in a pink fog posting what seems to us the sillier stuff, or for whom it is a small part of who they are and they also appreciate their wives and their wives' lives, kinda resent being lumped in together with the more superficial way of defining what a CD is all about. Just like I don't like to be lumped in with a stereotypical view of womanhood. So I think it's important (not just for you but for everyone else including me, other CDs, and other GGs) to keep in mind the wide variety of the personalities here.

Reine,

Thanks, I agree with your elegant summary.

My favorite aspect of this board is the acceptance and tolerance of the widely divergent personalities who participate here. Some posts make me cringe too, but who am I to judge?

"Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
I wanted to clear up and say that I had this question not cause of my husband and things he has posted on the forums but because of what I have seen you all post on the forums and talk about and such so it just brought this general question up for me cause I am sure other GGs in the past or even current GGs and GGs of the future will be curious too. Plus it gave you all time as well to reflect on things which I noticed some doing."

I think it is useful for all of us the reflect on why we post here and what our motivations are. Thanks for input, it does help to see things from your point of view.

[Claire Cook]

I couldn't agree more Sherry!

Yep, Reine nailed this in a way the rest of us didn't (or couldn't).

[Amy Lynn3]

What Claire Cook said. For many years I have read post made by Reine and she always "gets it". My hat is always off to her.

[Suzy Parker]

The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there. I have crossdressed as far back as I can remember. This is a part of who I am and will always be with me. I would like to offer up a thought and that thought is that for the occasional reader threads may seem all fluff and glam but this is a safe place for some of us to display our repressed inner feelings that we cannot otherwise do in our day to day life. So if people browse the topics the ones that grab the attention are usually just the ones that scream "Look at Me" which are only about 2% of the average discussions that take place here. People tend to judge an entire group based on the actions of just a few, profiling. We talk about things in this forum that may seem like glitz or glam because we like to while others just take them for granted. During my short time here I have found this to be a community of people who offer their support to one another freely and without question. What goes unnoticed are the personal interactions between friends. All I ask is that before condemning this group you read more than just those few threads you find offensive or questionable and view the others. This is a wonderful forum and is kept that way tthrough the diligence of the site moderators. Not sucking up but I personally witnessed a moderator smash a troll who was a repeat offender and it was quite impressive. So thank you for keeping it real.

Can't we all just get along?

Suzy

[Aprilrain]

"(And yes I do know that does not apply to ALL women there are MANY women who are questionable when it comes to their actions lol. just like every CDer is not the same.)"

Are you implying that there are genetic woman who's actions make their sex questionable?
What actions would those be?

Are we talking about femaleness, womanhood, or "being a lady"? These are all very different. females fart! ALL humans fart but a "lady" would never be caught farting or admit to it LOL.

Your original question is too nebulous to be answered and you clarified to a point, you said you understand that CDs can't know what its like to bare children etc. which is femaleness not womanhood and certainly not "lady like". (I've been there done that and cleaned up the mess afterward, my first son was born at home, there is NOTHING "lady like" about giving birth) As someone else pointed out being a woman in 2011 America is likely very different from being a woman in 18th century China, however the experience of baring children is likely very similar (minus the technological differences of the two time periods). All of your examples of femaleness can be taken away from a female though either through birth defect, disease or trauma, so does being infertile negate a females femaleness? As far as men not getting how a woman thinks I DO understand what you're saying however I think the implication that all woman think the same is imprecise. I think the experience of woman not getting men is ubiquitous but that does not mean we all think alike or automatically "get" each other.

Anonymous, your absolutely right, who cares about panty color or nail color or what you wore to the mall or blah blah blah a hundred other things that CDers might get excited about, but for whatever reason this stuff is exciting for these guys to talk about. Its probably not unlike guys who get excited talking about a plethora of other hobbies that men typically partake in like working on cars or collecting guns or (UGH!) watching football! I don't know about you but I simply do not get football or really any sport for that matter. But I don't sit around wondering why guys find watching it so exciting either (yeah i know there are woman who like sports too, my mom is one i don't get her either!). In that same vein there are lots of woman who just oo and ah over ballet which is only sightly less boring than football (at least the music is soothing to fall asleep to).

From a TS perspective (and I know you're not interested in a TS perspective but after 5 pages I can't help but chime in) When I first started to transition I worried about stuff like that. "oh no! I don't like ballet, does that mean im not really female?" then my sister admitted to hating ballet too and she is unquestioningly female. Over and over again you will hear a TS say "I just want my body to match my mind" what does that mean? it means, for a M2F TS, having boobs and a vagina and for many of us facial surgery to eliminate the masculine characteristics of the male face. I have met more TS woman who still partake in their previously "male" hobbies (even football????) and who make no attempt to change their voice and some with "masculine" mannerisms, so they don't "act" female, does this negate their brain gender? is a female a female because of the way she acts? for as long as I can remember I've had a vagina....if only in my head but that did not give me the experience of growing up female. Granted the more feminine a TS is the easier her transition and ability to be employed will be. but for some a life time of masculine training and an excessively male body are insurmountable obstacles. The best they can do may not be good enough for the outside world but again does that mean they are not female?

I feel that the TS experience goes to the heart of what you are trying to get at. You wonder why these guys focus on panties and polish and not the more important aspects of what essentially amounts to passing like mannerisms, voice, comportment etc. I think the ones for whom dressing has transcended the "bedroom days" do try to pass and of course once you reach this "phase" of dressing you are not likely to be interested in threads about panty color.

[Dawn cd]

The questioner's "grass is greener" comment indicates she believes there is a clearly-defined fence separating the genders. I don't believe that's true, and I suspect many psychologists would agree. Certainly C.G. Jung believed every person is a mixture of anima and animus (female and male principles). Even biologists would say we are a mixture of male and female. People differ in their degree of mixture. Society, however, prefers clear delineations, so we repress our secondary gender-identification. Cross-dressing is our way of tapping into the reservoir of feminine soul we have in different degrees. I realize this is troubling to people who believe human nature is black or white, off or on. Human nature is just more complicated than that.

[Suzy Parker]

If people can be born physically as both sexes known as a hermaphrodite could it be possible that some peoples brains develope that way at birth? I have been a crossdresser as long as I can remember. There was no trauma or bad childhood that can be the reason. I feel I am just wired that way. There are a lot worse things I could be interested in. I have no interest in being female. I am a happily married str8 male and actually enjoy both aspects of my life.

Suzy

[Aprilrain]

If people can be born physically as both sexes known as a hermaphrodite could it be possible that some peoples brains develope that way at birth?

the proper tern is intersexed unless your talking about plants!

[Lace-Is-Great]

This is quite a fascinating thread! I will add my own thoughts on the matter, without necessarily giving a specific answer only to the original asking Genetic Female-Assigned-at-Birth, but also other peripheral topics / points that are associated with crossdressers, things that were brought up by other posters within this thread, and the lack of more understanding in society-at-large...

This is my general statement:
I think it's beautiful that many people can express themselves uniquely

So long as people are not harming others or infringing on the rights and freedoms of others, we should pursue happiness.

Women are wonderful, and there are millions of different examples of people who demonstrate different traits of women and men.

I agree, the experience of each respective gender is unique and special.
Manners and more "mature" behaviour, classiness and etiquette are desireable traits in many parts of society.
So are courage, honour, strength, perserverance, intelligence, moderation, and well, honestly... good looks!
LOL

Not all women are "ladies", and not all men are "gentleman".

Obviously crossdressers cannot become real women by wearing women's garments, but emotionally and mentally there are certain songs that put countless human beings in certain places that they'd love be at, but which they may never be at.
Listening to that music that touches our souls in certain ways and puts us in the shoes of people we admire has a powerful value in and of itself.

I can understand how some might take the question or wording of the question in a... well, in a not-so-supportive way... at the same time, it takes courage just to open the door to new knowledge, even if just at least a little bit in the beginning.
Especially in light of the harsh feelings that are ingrained into many about what is "normal" and "abnormal" in society.
Knowledge can go a long ways to breaking down the barriers between crossdressers, genetic women, and society-at-large (though perhaps over a very very large passage of time --- look how various religions and political affiliations have been negatively scrutinized throughout history).

I think it's flattering to women that many, many men would like to be like them to a certain degree.
I also believe that it's easy for both women and men to take for granted some of the biological inherent features, and sociological priviledges / permissions that different people have.

Wearing the panties, bras, nylon stockings, dresses, makeup, feminine hairstyles... maybe you could see it as an analogy to when teenagers first get their Driver's License --- it's a big, electrifying thrill in the beginning!

And, for many, even if it's not as thrilling later on, most drivers would still feel very inconvenienced or uneasy if all-of-a-sudden they were not permitted to drive anymore.

And driving is more a thing of utility, whilst crossdressing is more a thing of internally feeling good and connecting with something that many people love in a very special, unique way.

In case the GG asker is wondering why many male crossdressers like going "over-the-top" with their styling ----
Since most men have developed certain masculine features due to testosterone and development during puberty and young adulthood, it takes an awful lot for some to cover up those manly features and seem more feminine.

While the average attractive female can still seem and feel internally feminine in jeans and t-shirt with no makeup, the average male cannot or will not seem or internally feel feminine wearing plain jean and t-shirt.

Also, can you blame many Americans for associating feminity with lingerie when as consumers we are inundated with advertisements for Victoria's Secret, JC Penny underwear ads in catalogs, and classic burlesque movies of women shaking their god-given attributes in a more colorful way??

Societal traditions, views, and "norms" have established contemporary guidelines within countless societies in the world for what is "feminine" and "masculine" in their respective geographical areas.

Our genetic code biologically goes a long ways in what every human being, male and female, wants and craves and feels internally and externally.

Is any human being, male or female, to be maligned and judged with negative feelings because they would rather be a certain way some or most of the time? No, certainly that is not just.

So some people want to be super-heroes, firefighters, astronauts, professional athletes, tigers, horses, vampires, robots and exotic aliens from outer space...
Is there anything really wrong with that, even if in some cases it's physically impossible? No. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I know I can never really be a real woman, genetically down to DNA and chromosones, even if / when I put in the full effort to appear as a woman on the exterior.
Still, I love thinking about it and imagining what it would be like.

It's certainly more understandable for a human male to associate with and want to be like a human female, because many of us grow up close to our mothers and sisters and aunts and wonderful female teachers / civic leaders / doctors / athletes.

The beauty and strength of countless women is awesome and should be admired by all!


Biologically all humans are female until the male hormones in the fetus of an XY start to alter it towards the male physical features.
But, like males who have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, if their body didn't have the reaction with the male hormones, they would appear as feminine as many genetic chromosonal XX females, from head to toe.

I can understand the anger of a girlfriend or wife finding out later on from their male partner / spouse about crossdressing, since it seems like deceit.

But it is the disdain of many in general society that drives many crossdressers to not tell their wives or girlfriends right away, if at all.

I hope the day comes when crossdressing, both for male-to-female and female-to-male, is something so common as being a fan of eating a particular flavor of ice-cream or driving a particular brand of automobile, that it does not elicit such a negative reaction from partners when later on they found out or were told about it by their romantic partner or longtime friend / soulmate.

"Oh my god, honey, why didn't you ever TELL me that you preferred Cookies-&-Cream Ice-Cream and driving Pontiacs?!? I feel so betrayed!!" lol

I know, I know, I shouldn't trivialize THAT much, because people fall in love with the person they perceive rather than what the object of their affection prefers in brands and flavors, but... you get my point.

Yes, it's much easier to accept various behaviors when it's accepted by society and known about in the beginning of the dating & relationship phase, but life is far from ideal.

Even in relationships where a wife / girlfriend and husband / boyfriend share every intimate detail in the beginning to the best of their knowledge, and if both are firmly within the typical boundaries of their respective gender roles all the time, inside-&-out...
people change, the couple's interests can change, and and love can wither away with each year.

Crossdressing certainly isn't the reason why almost half of all marriages end in divorce... there are mean and cruel spouses and significant others who could frivolously throw away their marriage or romantic relationship simply because they grow bored or unappreciative of the other.

I hope and pray that society-at-large and individuals will become more accepting and understanding of crossdressers, no matter how difficult it may be for some to understand or to relate or empathize.

And thanks to you, GG, for asking such a thought-provoking question, and for wanting to know more.
Your follow-up answer and clarification of manners and behaving in a lady-like manner is certainly a valid point for many.
I wish you the best of luck in your journey of learning more and understanding about crossdressers

~ Daniel / Danielle