Fetish CDs.....why the stigma, and near hatred?

[TxKimberly]

Well, as Kelly pointed out, in your opening post you are pretty much guilty of doing the very thing that are decrying - you drew lines between some and others and made it clear that you found some to be undesirable. I'm not slamming you for it, just kind of pointing it out.

I don't mind telling you that I do not want to be associated with people that post pics showing their hairy legs and "package" in panties and thigh highs. Anyone that wants to is free to express themselves as they see fit, and I respect that right, but I do NOT wish to be a part of it or be associated with it. Of course, the same thing can be said for your "normal" or "typical" porn as far as I am concerned, because I also have no interest in seeing or being associated with THAT kind of pic or people either.

Some hings I think should be kept in private, and talk about "jacking off", and pics of packages, are on that list for me.

[Benita05]

>>> Some hings I think should be kept in private, and talk about "jacking off", and pics of packages, are on that list for me.

I agree whole heartedly. In my brief time perusing these forums, I have learned quite a lot, and I'm really not looking for regurgitations on sexual experiences or looking at you in a pair of pantyose as though I can feel your feeling!! Good honest dialogue about what we do and why we do it is al that's necessary.

As far as differentiating what we are depending on how far we go with our fantasies that is ridiculous and negates the purpose of the forums. Perhaps we're evolving into races! That's a scary thought.

[Emma Leigh]

It seems that the forum is moving from dressing in women's clothes to becoming women. Those of us that identify as men but derive pleasure from wearing women's clothes and makeup aren't very well accepted any more. In My Opinion.


Agree!!

I agree with you Lucy, maybe the forum should change its name

[DonniDarkness]

Collective narcissism (or group narcissism) is a type of narcissism where an individual has an inflated self-love of his or her own ingroup, where an “ingroup” is a group in which an individual is personally involved.While the classic definition of narcissism focuses on the individual, collective narcissism asserts that one can have a similar excessively high opinion of a group, and that a group can function as a narcissistic entity.

Collective narcissism has been shown to be a factor in intergroup aggression and bias. Primary components of collectively narcissistic intergroup relations involve aggression against, and perceived threat from, outgroups with which the narcissistic ingroup has frequent interaction.Collective narcissism helps to explain unreasonable manifestations of retaliation between groups. A narcissistic group is more sensitive to perceived criticism exhibited by outgroups, and is therefore more likely to retaliate. Collective narcissism is also related to negativity between groups who share a history of distressing experiences. This intergroup callousness is the result of an unforgiving narcissistic party

It is common for narcissistic ingroups to have an unstable high group self-esteem.[1] Because of this instability, narcissistic groups are especially prone to perceived negativity towards themselves. The members of a narcissistic ingroup are likely to assume threats or negativity towards their ingroup where threats or negativity were not necessarily implied or exhibited. It is thought that this heightened sensitivity to negative feelings towards the ingroup is a result of underlying doubts about the greatness of the ingroup held by its members.These perceived threats result in a damaged collective self-esteem, which is associated with increased intergroup aggression.
Similar to other elements of collective narcissism, intergroup aggression related to collective narcissism draws parallels with its individually narcissistic counterparts. An individual narcissist might react aggressively in the presence of humiliation, irritation, or anything threatening to his self-image.

Legend:

Ingroup = Where you perceive yourself to belong among our community

Intergroup = Transgenderism (All of us)

Outgroup = Society

.....Maybe actually understanding what is happening to our group will help to find some common ground among all of us....


-Donni-

[Marleena]

Luckily the self pleasure in pantyhose, etc. threads are removed quickly by the mods. It's just too much information. I'm learning to avoid threads and certain sections on the board that don't concern me or where I might not be welcome. It took a while though to learn that though.

Oh..and Donnie your post makes a heck of a lot of sense.

[Kaz]

If the same respect was given to the posts in this section of the forum, that is expected and moderated, in the other sections according to the title they are given, i.e. Male to Female CROSSdresser, then there wouldn't be so many conflicts.

This is a good point.. possibly slightly off thread (sorry Pythos), but worth commenting on. This forum (MtF) tends to be the main entry point and so this is where most people (inc me) post... when I get it wrong I get it moved by the mods. But a lot of people post here kicking a**e with MtF CDs when this is in theory our forum! In general I have no problem with this is as all challenge is good - we can choose to take things on board, ignore or get angry... I have done all three!

Fetish CDs are still MtF CDs... if they had there own forum would this change things? I suspect not... I have no desire to engage with some things that some 'members' get up to, but it is my choice to opt in or out. If it gets too out of whack the mods will sort it anyway as they do a brilliant job...thank you mods!!

And to Pythos, my friend, you have style, charisma and still some (!) youth on your side... and I enjoy everything that you post... Continue for all our sakes... and believe me I do not see you as a fetish CD... whatever that is... now then back to some serious fun in women's lingerie! Just kidding!

[Emma Leigh]

Good post Donni, our keyword should be community, this forum is the only place many of us can feel any kind of acceptance

[Badtranny]

It seems that the forum is moving from dressing in women's clothes to becoming women. Those of us that identify as men but derive pleasure from wearing women's clothes and makeup aren't very well accepted any more. In My Opinion.

This is not true. Some other girls and I were just talking about this very topic and we all agreed that we sometimes felt like interlopers on a CD board. The percentage of identified TS's on the forum is a mere fraction of the CD's. I don't even open most of the threads because just the title is unappealing. The idea that the CD's are becoming some kind of trod upon minority is just silly.

The truth is the TS girls very rarely attack the CD girls about fet stuff or fashion. We understand the difference, and we also understand that there are people who THINK they are one thing, when they may be the other thing. At the end of the day, I don't really care how someone get's their jollies. I only care that they represent themselves honestly. This is NOT a fantasy forum after all, and people who lie or misrepresent themselves are just diluting what's good about this forum.

There is no shortage of people here who proudly identify as straight men, thread after thread is filled with some form of macho posturing. Hey I get it, you're men. Some of these men are open and honest about who they are and what they do, and some are not. In one thread they're playing coy and tittering about "flirting" with some guy, and in another they're kicking some dude in the seeds cuz he stroked her arm. Look nobody cares if you blow guys at the rest stop or if you're totally content to fantasize with your wife. (excuse me, SO) This is a discussion forum and all most of us know about each other is what we've written, so to what end would you not be authentic, at least virtually?

This is less a discussion about Fetish CD's which would comprise most of the forum, and more about the BS that we try to feed each other. When you can't even accept who you are, then you can't help but think that no one else does either.

[Lucy_Bella]

This is less a discussion about Fetish CD's which would comprise most of the forum, and more about the BS that we try to feed each other. When you can't even accept who you are, then you can't help but think that no one else does either.

This quote from Badtranny, this is the problem . I don't not ever suspect any spectrum of denying who they are.. I am not a Dr. and I go through life learning everyday.. I know I am not perfect but because I enjoy emulating women doesn't mean I am a T.S. in denial.. Period.. It's so easy being atop the spectrum judging everyone whom you feel are intruders.. This is a support site and we all are TG's if you wanna throw the B.S. flag, throw it in your own game on your own field.

This is not a shot at Badtranny either and I am sure I mis read her point as she may have meant well ..It is all a perception within words no body language or facial language .. So please Badtranny don't think this is me picking any fight with you I don't even know you to judge .. Some glasses are half full some are half empty,,

[Kaz]

Lucy... I understand this point of view.. I also understand Melissa's... can we kind of deal with it with the OP in mind? We could take this off line in a seperate thread? BTW Melissa love the new avatar!

[Badtranny]

This quote from Badtranny, this is the problem . I don't not ever suspect any spectrum of denying who they are.. I am not a Dr. and I go through life learning everyday.. I know I am not perfect but because I enjoy emulating women doesn't mean I am a T.S. in denial.. Period.. It's so easy being atop the spectrum judging everyone whom you feel are intruders.. This is a support site and we all are TG's if you wanna throw the B.S. flag, throw it in your own game on your own field.,

That's IT, it's ON!! ;-)

I didn't mean that you were all TS in denial. Not at all. The BS I'm talking about is the people who try to act like something they are not. I don't want to give specific examples as I'm not near as cranky as some may think. The point I'm trying to make is there is nothing wrong with being a CD, fetish or otherwise. Just be proud of whoever you are. If some of us don't understand you, don't hide behind pretension, be brave because nobody understand me either. ;-)

[Lucy_Bella]

That's IT, it's ON!! ;-)

I didn't mean that you were all TS in denial. Not at all. The BS I'm talking about is the people who try to act like something they are not. I don't want to give specific examples as I'm not near as cranky as some may think. The point I'm trying to make is there is nothing wrong with being a CD, fetish or otherwise. Just be proud of whoever you are. If some of us don't understand you, don't hide behind pretension, be brave because nobody understand me either. ;-)

Thank you and that was very well said ..It was clear to where there was no mis interpretation ( I can be pretty dense ) ..Thank you for understanding.. I do understand the few who have this " Look at me Look at me " Attitude ..That will happen everywhere.. Sorry If I may have slightly high jacked this thread Pythos..

[Crysten]

Simply put, who cares. I express myself however I want to, both gender wise and sexuality wise. I limit myself due to other responsibilities I have in my life. I seriously couldn't care less what other people think about it, how they feel about it, or what they say about it. If they don't like, it's thier problem, not mine. I think if more people busied themselves with thier own concerns and stopped getting all up in other peoples business, the world would be a much better place. No point in questioning hatred and bigotry anyway, those people fail, and always will, you can't argue with them, you can only press on.

[Lori B]

Good post Donni, our keyword should be community, this forum is the only place many of us can feel any kind of acceptance

my feelings too................

[RachelOKC]

There's a lot of people who spend waaaaayyy too much time judging other people's choices. CD's bash TS's, TS's bash CD's, and everybody picks on the fetish folks. How about live and let live for crying out loud?

I guess if you have a problem with someone, then you need to ask yourself why you have that problem. Maybe it's more of an insecurity with yourself than the other person. So if that's the case, then why do you let yourself be measured by someone else's yardstick? It's simple - don't, and don't measure others by yours.

I'll tell you right off that there's plenty of people and their lifestyles or expressions that I just don't get. So you're into sissy doll dresses? Not my favorite style of fashion but go for it. Want to stay in the closet? I think life is better out than in, but whatever - do what you gotta do. Get turned on by dressing in lingerie? Nothing wrong with that. Want to turn your outie into an innie? If it makes you feel better about yourself, then there's no better reason. It's a big world and we don't NEED to understand everyone else and we don't NEED them to understand us.

Now I'm not saying you can't share your view and discuss things. Hell, you can argue your point and try to convince the other dude(ette). But how about just respecting their choices, their expression, and their differences of opinion? How about expecting the same in return? If they don't understand you or vice versa, than so what? Move on with it. Try not to have so much of a problem with people who don't think the same way as you do. How damn hard is that?

[kellycan27]

I can't speak much about the eroticism of dressing in feminine clothing that a genetic male experiences, but I can speak about what women feel when they wear sexy things.

First, let's make allowances for age. I'm not in my 20s anymore and although I do feel erotic, it is not the same as when I was younger. But ... allowing for young women who are learning about their sexuality, generally when we wear sexy things it is not the things in themselves (corsets, nylons, panties, racy bras, etc), that do it for us. It is the idea that we "look" sexy enough to appeal to a partner. In other words, a woman will become aroused just like a guy will, her fantasies will run to having sex with a partner, and she will put on the things that would excite him. In her mind, she becomes the woman that HE cannot resist, and she has fantasies or driving him wild with desire.

Men are visual, and they like to look at sexy women when they are aroused. Women know this, and they like to look sexy when THEY feel aroused, in order to attract the men. Yin and yang.

Most women (unless they have a super high libido), will not become aroused just by putting on sexy things, if they're not aroused already.

---------------------------

As to your question about why fetish CDers are looked down upon, I should think this is only in forums where there are many "identity" crossdressers and transsexuals who are trying to be accepted for who they are and who dislike to be associated with the public's view that crossdressers are fetishistics perverts. We do live in a puritanical society, unfortunately.

If you went to a site strictly for men who dress for sexual pleasure and there were no members who did this to express a feminine identity, I don't think you'd be vilified.

Very well said.. I think you nailed it!
Kel

[docrobbysherry]

Simply put, who cares. I express myself however I want to, both gender wise and sexuality wise. I limit myself due to other responsibilities I have in my life. I seriously couldn't care less what other people think about it, how they feel about it, or what they say about it. If they don't like, it's thier problem, not mine. I think if more people busied themselves with thier own concerns and stopped getting all up in other peoples business, the world would be a much better place. No point in questioning hatred and bigotry anyway, those people fail, and always will, you can't argue with them, you can only press on.

Sadly, we're ALL flawed and prejudiced, Crysten! As my father pointed out to me as we discussed this topic when I was young. He asked if I treated everyone the same no matter their gender, color, financial, or ethnic heritage. I said I tried to.

To which he replied, "You're prejudiced, son. Because only when u can't see or tell the differences in people r u truly unprejudiced!"
In which case I wouldn't have any idea if I treated folks equally. Because I couldn't tell if they were different or not!

[Pythos]

Need to clarify.

When I put in those exclusions in, try to remember I am only going by what is commonly thought as perverted actions. Me personally I don't care if you do those things, and I certainly don't think it should any bearing whatsoever upon the status of TG groups in general.

I hope that clears up my stance.

thread after thread is filled with some form of macho posturing.

I just about fell off my chair backwards, and had my pantyhosed legs stuck up in the air, laughing my a** off at this. LOL. MACHO!!! ME? No way in hell. I cannot stand macho posturing and when I see men doing it, I wanna puke. "look at me, me man, me punch wall with fist" (okay that was an exgeration, but you get my point) I am so far from macho it is not funny.

[jillleanne]

You only need to look at the big picture for your answer. All is created by the fact most people need labels to identify themselves for varous reasons. Take away the labels and the problem disappears also. Simple. I hate labels, I disagree with the need for them, and they have never served a usefill purpose except for those that need them to make assumptions or for negative purposes, and they are not necessary for structure.

[Kate T]

There may be an element of a couple of bad apples not helping either. I do not have a problem per se with any fetish however as with anything I would place the caveat that provided it does not harm emotionally or physically anyone else. Unfortunately it is not hard to find even on this forum miscellaneous threads wherein the fetish is used as some sort of excuse to engage in behaviour that is selfish and going to hurt someone.

[Jeannie]

Hi Pythos, I think it is because humans tend to dislike or even hate what they don't understand, I know it's a worn out cliche but still very true. Where I live the fact that there are even crossdressers at all, no matter why the reason, automatically brings loathe and disgust from some people every time the words are mentioned. If you happen to say anything about it in most places the reaction you will get is "that's disgusting". Crossdressers are lump into the same pile as any other fetish/perversion and given the same amount of disgust. We are all a bunch perverts wacking off and wearing womens clothes, rubber, latex or whatever other fetishes that out there. People that talk bad about what you are doing either don't have a clear understanding or they are just talking to hear their head rattle. For me personally, I just laugh and keep on going. You know, some people have way to much time on their hands. Please forgive if I am rambling but I just went for my first dress and drive and the my nerve medicine (Jim Beam on the rocks) has finally started working. XXXOOO!!! Everyone!

[Kelly DeWinter]

......
Men are visual, and they like to look at sexy women when they are aroused.

I tend to like how you think Reine, and I feel, you probably ment MOST men are visual, So many member here see women her and think,"I like what shes wearing, I wonder how i would look in that when they are aroused or not. All men are not from Mars. (light hearted book reference)

As to your question about why fetish CDers are looked down upon, I should think this is only in forums where there are many "identity" crossdressers and transsexuals who are trying to be accepted for who they are and who dislike to be associated with the public's view that crossdressers are fetishistics perverts. We do live in a puritanical society, unfortunately.

So true, Many CD or trasngendered just want to blend in or fly under the radar when out enfem (including yours truely) and only want to stand out when going to dinner or a social engagement or a party. For years the only opprtunity the cd and tg had socialy was at a fetish event or group, with the advent of the internet there has been a NATURAL division as more and more cd/tg peek out of the closet for social events. it's just like there is a NATURAL division when someone decides to transition and starts the process. A lot of cd/trangender who become transgender/transexual, then start seeing life from their new perspective. LOL mayby its evolution on a faster scale ?

If you went to a site strictly for men who dress for sexual pleasure and there were no members who did this to express a feminine identity, I don't think you'd be vilified.

That last part rings so true , this site's temperment is more focused on people trying to figure out what being a crossdresser means to themselves and their future.

[Stephanie47]

The reason I've enrolled in the site is the diversity of opinion and subject material. I have noticed there are some participants who feel a person like me should just put it out there- a militant approach without regard to a person other than myself who may be affected by my actions. And, then there are many younger or newer cross dressers who are just now taking baby steps and learning and struggling. I have seen other "cross dressing" sites which are nothing more than hard core porn. I choose to avoid them. I know many people who do not like cross dressing will point to them to justify their bias opinions.

I know I have posted in the past that I believe wearing one particular feminine garment really does not make a cross dresser. I started out just trying on my mother's slips. If I left it there I'd say I had a fetish. If I wore just panties I'd say I had a fetish. If I wore just high heels because ???, I'd say I had a fetish. That's my opinion-nothing more.

I have a niece and nephews who are Native American. However, their heritage is too 'diluted' to be enrolled in their mother's tribe. So, another tribe accepted them as Native Americans and enrolled them. So, if you're a full blooded 24/7 365 day a year (366 this year) cross dresser or a 'diluted' cross dresser, I welcome you here.

[Niya W]

Pyhtos this my take on it . When I came out most of the trans folks I knew and met were into fetish When I say trans I mean TS to. Latex,leather, BDSM, pony girls . SF has the Folsom fair, Citadel ,Power exchange . To be honest being in th SF bay area as a trans person I'm surprised you would feel any stigma over fethishes .

[Gillian Gigs]

Aren't we all looking for a little joy and happiness in this life. If fetish CDing is it, then who am I to say anything. If you want to transisition into a woman full time, then who am I to speak again. This is a forum, and everyone should have the right to share their opinion. That being said, opinions are like a$$ holes and we don't necessarily need the details. Personally, I want to read from all of the different individuals, from one extreme to the other. It is only through a full range of thoughts and opinions that I can make my "informed" decisions.