I know passing is more about behavior, gait etc but I am referring to just the appearance alone here. When people complain that they don't pass, is it just that they need to improve upon their makeup skills and their clothes/accessory selection?
I know passing is more about behavior, gait etc but I am referring to just the appearance alone here. When people complain that they don't pass, is it just that they need to improve upon their makeup skills and their clothes/accessory selection?
I suspect the main reason people don't think they can pass is body shape/size and [for whatever reason] the inability to shave body hair. Certainly makeup skills, or lack of them, is on the list, too.
I made a private video of myself while en femme. A real eye-opener. My look was good enough, until I walked. It wasn't as feminine as I thought it was. Needs work. I guess there are many things that can give it away.
Sara, you got me to wondering on this one! Why don't one pass! Is it because of your beared! You could shave it! You don't have to beautiful to pass! I'm proof of that! Wow! May be the makeup app.????????? Hugs!
If you don't like the way I'm livin', you just leave this long haired country girl alone:
Body size is my main obstacle to passing. I believe that after 50 years I finally have my makeup figured out.
Fulfilling a Lifetime Dream of Living as a Woman in My Adult Years.
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Not sure beyond mannerisms /walk and makeup. I know clothing for you to blend in is important. I don't think any GM will pass under close scrutiny due to facial features. Drag queen looking makeup is best for the stage only.
I think the main reason is that some people just have too strong male features that no amount of makeup can alter. The other reason is definitely wig selection and then clothes. After that it might be mannerisms, how one walks, sits and talks. Size in the overweight area, to me, can actually be a benefit because the rounder face hides a lot of male features and with the right wig and clothes, some males can definitely come close to the female look. Having smaller and cleaner eyebrows helps a lot when someone else is getting closer to the MtF CD.
I personally don't like the term passing because it implies trying to be something or someone you're not. I don't really care anymore that people know I'm a tranny - I would care if they made an issue of it. But that's their problem, not mine.Originally Posted by sara.s
A lot of transpeople are concerned with their appearance, and fair enough - so am I. I get bothered when something doesn't seem right and this is probably no different than many other women (or men) trans or cis. You just try to fix it or just accept it. The point is, don't get hung up on it...get past it. Move on.
I don't think it's limited to makeup or clothes, it can be anything or even the whole presentation. It may not even be anything presentation related, it may just come from insecure state of mind like a low self worth or a perfectionist complex. There are absolutely stunningly feminine transwomen who quake in their boots and there are transwomen with very masculine features that are as confident as can be. I did a lot of quaking in my own boots before I realized that I didn't need to be afraid of who I was and worry about what other people think. That, more than anything else, was tremendously liberating for me.
If people don't like their appearance then they should work on it by all means. But they should be sure to work on their inner beauty too.
The makeup is probably one of the lesser aspects (except beard coverage). one of the best tips i found is for sitting and moving-- as much as possible, keep your knees close together- it makes a difference not only in how you look when you sit or stand, but also in the way that you move when changing position. Ditto for your elbows- not together, of course, but keep them close to your waist whenever you are not actively reaching for something- try it for yourself- video how you move and sit- then re-do the same motions while keeping your elbows and knees together. it actually takes a bit of concentration at first, but gets easier.
Whether or not you look like a girl is less important than how you act and feel about yourself. Just my 2 cents worth.
kristi
Yes, I will agree makeup can help transform man into woman. With that said, some of us seem to have a leg up on the rest of us. Looking back through the years I have improved greatly in my ability with makeup. It's amazing how just changing the smallest amount of color or methods can greatly improve or destroy ones look. In my case I believe I only pass to around 30 or 40 percent of the people I see up close and thats ok. My face is not very femine and the the makeup can only do so much. My desire to go out as Susan in public out weighs being made as a man in womens clothing. Yes, I would love a more femine face as far as cross dressing goes but I like my face as far as being a man 95 percent of the time. I guess one might say I cross dress for sport. I love dressing in a tight pencil skirt, sweater, sheer stockings, 4 in heels and long dirty blond hair for a movie, dinner and drinks. Seeing men look my way when they hear the noise of my pumps hitting the pavement and look me up and down is so much fun. Even if they make me I still made them look. Try this, find a professional makeup artist in your area and see what they come up with. Go without any makeup on and let them create Sara. I will say the picture you use on your posts is quite femine and I wish I was so lucky. I remember seeing you post before.
Maybe passing isn't a good way to look at it. I like to think blending. It doesn't matter how you act, talk or how tall you are, if you are overdressed you'll draw attention. I try to dress to the occasion; which means if I'll going to the mall, I'm not wearing a cocktail dress in the afternoon.
So how you dress, look, sound, walk, talk and a number of other things will determine how well you pass/blend. I like to blend for a couple of reasons. I like to be safe and don't like a lot of attention. When I go out I'm not looking for trouble, it's just to enjoy myself.
Dana Ryan
Passing is the totality of many things, and not being good at beauty makeup (as opposed to corrective makeup like beard cover) probably won't get one read alone (not all GGs apply their makeup perfectly either, not a slam in any way against them just an objective observation.) Having a heavy beard that is not completely covered, or worse obviously looks like one has makeup on their neck, probably would get one read.
There could be a few hints other than less than perfect makeup skills that can reveal the person to be male; such as large hands, muscular arms, wide shoulders, a bulging Adam's apple, narrow hips, a mustache or beard (an almost certain giveaway); and you can add what-ever to this list, including various masculine mannerisms, movements, gait, and gestures, and maybe even body odor, height, size and proportunes, but granted, a good coating of makeup properly applied could go a long way to achieving the desired deception.
Today, I had done my makeup but with out the wig
Yeah i agree. blending seems like a better word than passing while we are discussing appearance.
Actually, relying on professional makeup artist for a perfect makeup is not always a great idea. In my experience, it was terrible on two occasions and I can do it much better on my own.
What you don't know are the tons of pics that I deleted as they weren't good and the broad face that I have hidden with the wig. Even if a facial feature is manly, you can still darken it and highlight something else to draw attention there. I personally think anyone could "blend" if they put in some useful time.
I'm with RachelOKC on this. Currently reading "The Lazy Crossdresser", by Charlie Anders. Once you focus on just being yourself and being a friendly, nice person, and stop being self conscious you will be surprised at how few people notice you.
Also, sorry people but I defy anyone to not be "read" if they are truly trying to interact in a normal way in society i.e. talking to sales people, ordering a coffee etc. But I'll give you the tip, I'd rather that those people say later "Yes, I served this man today and he was dressed as a lady, and he was really lovely and polite and really happy", than have them say "Was that a guy dressed as a woman? I don't know, they didn't say much. Weird hey".
Look around women come in all shapes sizes, pretty and ugly some dress like boys some cut their hair shorter than guys ... Passing isnt how you look. its what you feel in you mind. I was told by someone once " If you feel your a girl then your a girl" simple as that .. the hard part is getting into that mindframe ... but when you do its a kick in the ass...Tina
Some of these might help.
Muscular arms-> a scarf to cover arms
wide shooulders -> full sleeves works for me.
Adams apple -> contouring should fix it.
narrow hips-> padding and corset
Instead of choosing clothes that one can "blend in", if one opts for their fantasy clothing and then complain, its no use.
I remember having seeing one of your pics and look very good. So stop lying! :P The point I am making is about the choice of clothes and proper makeup to "blend in", not about being beautiful.
Not passing means being six foot in stocking feet and 195 pounds! Ugh!
No, not just those -- but what it is, I don't know.
It has been very uncommon for me not to be "read", even right after professional make-up sessions, even with nice wigs. When I'm sitting down not saying anything. From a distance. In bad light.
No matter what I have on, people glance at my face and say "Sir". And I don't mean "sometimes".
Do I have a "male face"? Shrug. I'm a bit taller than most people, so most people are looking up at me a bit, and from that angle, especially if I am tired, what I look like is my mother. Closely enough that people make mistakes when comparing our pictures (I've had to look closely at pictures sometimes too.)
Passing. Blending. Whatever. Why?
Very very few here will pass. There is a line from Gilbert and Sullivan "She may very well pass for 43 in the dusk with the light behind her". Even the best will not "Pass". It is an impossibility for all but a very few. Nature takes care of that. That is why there is forensic pathology. You spend so much time working toward what will never be that you waste time you could be enjoying yourself. I have a perfect picture of myself standing with three men. The photo shoot was at a local park and the pictures were great, until I stood next to the men. I was way taller and one was 6'2".
I say quit chasing what you won't have. You are not 5'2" 120 pounds. Your hips are narrow and your shoulders are broad. Your brow and jaw line are larger. You are not going to fool anyone into thinking you are a woman. You aren't pegged because no one is looking for you. They have other things more important than to wonder why you walk like a trucker and your hips don't sway. Which brings up another thing. The harder you try and do "things" you think a woman does the more you stand out.
Someone once said when you quit pounding your head into the wall you feel so much better. Quit hitting the wall.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I would say the ability to pass does not come from how hard you try or how good you are at acting the part. As humans, the first thing we are inclined to notice about someone is their face. A males face and females face vary greatly. Skin is also different. Makeup won't fix a strong brow line or high cheek bones and a rigid jaw. These are things you have to try to work around. The main reason its hard to pass is because you need to make people focus on other things. A nice necklace and long wig will take the attention away, but also mascara to lengthen the lashes. To pass, you must draw attention away from the things you cannot control and towards the things you can.
She's right. It's a good goal but I've been working on it for two years. Long hair, shaped eyebrows, very thin for a man, small hands, no adams apple, no beard shadow, tinted eyelashes, mildly fem body, pierced ears, etc, etc.
I get read EVERYDAY. I've never met anyone that thinks I'm a real girl. I've met plenty of people who accept me and even more who don't give a damn but getting read as a transperson is painfully common.
A part time CD has a snowballs chance at "passing" as a GG. I am not the most feminine dude I've ever seen, but I'm pretty damn fem and I will never pass without FFS. Nature has stamped and certified me as a man and that's just the way it is. :-(
If it weren't for chemistry and surgery I would be stuck in gender-queer land forever.
Even if you don't come close to "passing", when others interact with a transperson who is presenting as happy and joyful and kind, I believe that starts to plant the seed of change in the hearts and mind of others toward us, who would otherwise only look at us through the media's stereotypical, preconceived ideas.
Joni
"Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free" Bob Dylan
If you have enough make-up and/or money... you can "fix" anything, lol.
This reminds me of this girl I dated when I lived in Dallas. She was beautiful, just like all the other chics in Dallas, lol. We had slept together many times but this one morning was the first time I actually saw her with absolutely no facial make-up. When she came out of the bathroom...it was like seeing a completely different person. Some women (fair complexion, etc.) undergo a dramatic change in appearance with make-up compared to others.
It was not a negative event...it was just an amazing one. That convinced me that make-up can do incredible things in the hands of a "professional", lol. Hollywood actors prove that.
So right now I sort of lean toward the belief that aside from a few cases...a make-up "professional" could probably make all of look pretty darn good. Well...at least in dim light at 2am closing time at a bar...heehee.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hi,
( Passing ) or blending in . has little meaning for myself , yet im a woman , for my self as iv been told by quite a few women friends , we all come in different shapes & size's & how we look or are seen by others
.
So how one would say that woman pass's yet another woman may not yet both are women ,iv seen a few women walk like men & others look like men in many ways,
For myself im very masculine looking facial wise. so makes little difference what i wear or have make up on or if i wore a wig . no make up no wig just what you see in my pic, yet im accepted just like any other woman is .
As to make up i can do pretty good & i have had it done by two very good reps & iv had others have thiers done as well
so i know what im doing. i just know my face is not worth it in fact our grandaughter has most of mine ,
if you call lippy & eyebrow liner my make up thats it pretty much every day & may be an evening out eye shadow maskra allmost a waist of time.
I meet many 100's of people & high ups & we talk as normal people so its not an issue for myself , most of my women freinds & i know them very well hardly have make up on at all. so some do when we have a big get together going on .
so really for my self its about being accepted for who you are & how you are. tho being a woman may be a bit different.
...noeleena...
Last edited by noeleena; 01-08-2012 at 06:23 AM.
Katrina, Lori and BT have hit it on the head for me. I'll but there are very few, if any, of us who at some point haven't been read. Sure, I get treated as female some of the time, but most of the time I'm treated as someone who is comfortable with who I am and what I am wearing. If I'm read as a guy who presents well wearing women's clothes, then that's all I ask. "Passing" should be a state of mind -- the confidence that "Yes, we can do it", and that comes from the inside.
I think the sooner we stop worrying about passing and get comfortable with ourselves, the better we will be. Frankly, it's really a rush to be called "sir", and then get complements on my earrings, or top, or hair (all of which have happened.) That being said, I do try to look the best I can (what girl doesn't?) and always try to dress to fit in. And that seems to work.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud member of the Lacey Leigh Fan Club
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