Do they really don't notice / don't care?

[DianeDeBris]

What a wonderful thread! I had intended to post my own take, but honestly I think that this whole concept has been covered superbly before I got here. Someone (Lori, I think, with great insight as always) suggested that we think about how we would view the situation if we were discussing some other minority other than CD's: spot on! I suspect the reality is that pretty much everyone "notices" when any of us (of any kind or flavor) is "different" in any given context (imagine a white customer in a mainly-black store; or vice versa: or a short male in a Big and Tall men's store; or an old guy in a mostly-kids' store; or a Hassidic Jew in a white supremacist supply store; or any other out-of-context circumstance you can imagine). In way more than 99% of the time, people may "notice" somebody is "different" but not say or do anything at all out of line. That is close to the best any of us can expect, or hope for.
My own two "worst" personal experiences were (1) when I was walking past a group of high school girls in a hotel lobby, they became totally silent as we passed, and then I could hear the excited whispering afterwards; and (2) late one night when I stopped in a convenience store for a Coke, and a clearly-intoxicated young man stood aside, waved me forward and said "After you, SIR." The young girls, while "noticing," had the common sense or decency not to embarass me overtly, and the lout did his best but swung wildly and missed completely.
Hugs -- Diane

[PetiteDuality]

Thank you all for your thoughts!

I agree with most of you. There should no be reason to care about what others think or say.

But the truth is that we do care. This is why we keep asking "Do I pass", "Will they notice if I shave my legs", "What if I also wear a pink tutu? Would they notice?" and the typical answers "Nay! I went out the other day with a G-String to Walmart and nobody said a thing, so it's OK to go out with your tutu"

The thing is: most of us will never pass. People will notice if you shave your legs. They will also notice the tutu. You can't do much other than not caring. Or having plausible excuses "I shave my legs because I have a triathlon next week", "I wear a tutu because I was recruited by the Russian ballet"

Just my humble opinion

By the way: should I shave my legs? I almost drown during the last triathlon!

[suzy1]

Thank you all for your thoughts!

I agree with most of you. There should no be reason to care about what others think or say.

But the truth is that we do care. This is why we keep asking "Do I pass", "Will they notice if I shave my legs", "What if I also wear a pink tutu? Would they notice?" and the typical answers "Nay! I went out the other day with a G-String to Walmart and nobody said a thing, so it's OK to go out with your tutu"

The thing is: most of us will never pass. People will notice if you shave your legs. They will also notice the tutu. You can't do much other than not caring. Or having plausible excuses "I shave my legs because I have a triathlon next week", "I wear a tutu because I was recruited by the Russian ballet"

Just my humble opinion

By the way: should I shave my legs? I almost drown during the last triathlon!

For what its worth, my daughter and her husband are serious triathlon competitors racing in the U.K. and on the continent.
Does he shave his legs? Yes. But he hasn’t got the guts to use an epilator like me.

[Aprilrain]

Generally speaking people ask questions about hair removal A because they are scared that they will be hunted with pitch forks and torches and B will it be noticeable when in drab. The answer to the first question is NO! regardless of what others might think about a guy with no hair on his legs no one is going to say anything. Even if it is a social taboo for a man to shave his legs its even MORE of a social taboo to make ones self look like a total asshole asking stupid questions of strangers. The second question is nebulous. Who knows if some one will notice your hairless legs when your in drab? refer back to the answer to the first question.

A grown man going anywhere in a tutu or thong (with nothing on over it) is just plain wrong! I will gladly join the mob with my pitch fork and torch to hunt you down and do what it is that pitch forked mobs do!

[Marleena]

A grown man going anywhere in a tutu or thong (with nothing on over it) is just plain wrong! I will gladly join the mob with my pitch fork and torch to hunt you down and do what it is that pitch forked mobs do!

I'll help! Any grown man wearing a tutu in public might as well be carrying a "kick me" sign too.lol

For what it's worth, I see lots of men with shaved legs during the summer. They are all ages. Most people, other than me since I'm TG don't notice. Why are they shaved, I'm not going to ask but I wonder. The younger guys that work out shave, my son is one, and I never asked him about it. Some older guys may need support stockings for circulation problems. Men shaving their legs is more common than we think.

[helena.gcd]

As long as you are treated well and with respect, i don't see a problem if people notice something different in you. Most people will talk about other when they can't hear them and most of the time it doesn't mean that they have a problem with that person life style, it is just that they are surprised of seeing something uncommon.

Regarding to shaving legs, I'm not sure but i think that most of the people who ask about this is from the states. Maybe in europe we are more used to it, but i can tell you that i have never ever in my life hear anybody telling to other person: Look!! that guy has shaven legs!!!

Instead, i have hear quite a few times the opposite: Look!!! that guy is so hairy that looks like a bear!!!

[Bree-asaurus]

I agree with most of you. There should no be reason to care about what others think or say.

But the truth is that we do care.

The point is you have to learn not to care...

Trust the transexuals on this one... lol.

[sissystephanie]

Kim nailed it. Here we have a TG person satisfying a basic need, supporting herself by working. She must be confident in interacting with the public since her job requires it. The woman customer must not have much of a life to have nothing better to talk about with her companions at the table than the person who served her ice cream.

So maybe the question should be, "Should we care if they care?"

The answer to the question asked above is, "No, we shouldn't care, unless the other party raises a fuss about the situation!" I go out almost every day dressed totally enfemme, but with out makeup or a wig. So obviously I look like the man that I am. Do people look at me? Of course they do! Do I care? Not in the slightest!! As I have said many times, I dress to please myself, not the rest of the world. The amazing thing about this whole situation is that I have been going out like that for 7 years now, and have never had one single negative comment made to me!! Sure, there probably has been some made, but not so I could hear them!

A major problem with a lot of CD's is that they worry too much about what other people are thinking. Live your own life, and don't be so concerned about the rest of the population!! You will be much happier!!

[PetiteDuality]

As long as you are treated well and with respect, i don't see a problem if people notice something different in you. Most people will talk about other when they can't hear them and most of the time it doesn't mean that they have a problem with that person life style, it is just that they are surprised of seeing something uncommon.

Regarding to shaving legs, I'm not sure but i think that most of the people who ask about this is from the states. Maybe in europe we are more used to it, but i can tell you that i have never ever in my life hear anybody telling to other person: Look!! that guy has shaven legs!!!

Instead, i have hear quite a few times the opposite: Look!!! that guy is so hairy that looks like a bear!!!

Hi Helena!

I don't see many guys my age (mid thirties) with shaved legs in Spain.

Do you live in Madrid?

Maybe I'm a bit conscious because I'm a bit obsessed about shaving. Every time I've shaved (like when I took my avatar picture), I was crazy about it, but next day was only hoping it grows back quickly.

Obviously, the question I've just asked reflects my own fears

[sandra-leigh]

A couple of days ago, while my wife and I were driving somewhere, I glanced at a woman across the street and exclaimed to my wife, "Did you see her hair?! Or is it a hat? Yes -- did you see that hat?! No, it looks like hair -- did you see that hair? Hold on, what is it, hair or hat? .... ah, it is hair! Did you get a look at it?!"

As the expression goes, "Pot. Kettle. Black." And I know that, and I've seen my share of unusual-looking people. But still, at times, exclaiming over oddities happens to nearly all of us. It is a human defense reaction; it happens, even if it is not "rational".

With regard to "nothing said" vs "did not notice": when I write about not being noticed, I often qualify it with "or at least no-body said anything".

On the other hand, when I am out, I watch peoples' eyes.

Eye movement in humans is partly conscious and partly pre-conscious. A human who is not expecting an immediate threat scans their eyes across the visual field pre-consciously, automatically filtering out from conscious attention items that are considered to be definitely not threats or "of interest"; when the low-level filters match something they are not certain about, they interrupt the higher level, and the higher level swings the eyes back and focuses on the item for a more detailed assessment. The higher level may dismiss the item with little conscious thought (e.g., unimportant items that only looked like they were moving because of the angle), or the conscious thoughts may dismiss the attention ("Purple hair? So what?"); or, of course, conscious thought might record it or process the event further.

What I observe as a travel around my city, is that for the great majority of people, their eyes just scan right past me, without any momentary flick of refocus on me. Thus, in my everyday activity, I do not register at all as a threat or item of interest to people engaged in their own business. I am just part of the background, like the other un-exceptional people. I am not being "actively ignored" or "tolerated" by these people: I just do not register as being worth any attention.

Another way that I assess whether I am being Tolerated or Not Noticed, is to watch the reaction of children. Children might not say anything about their surroundings, but they are on the whole relatively observant, more active in looking around, and "living more in the present" (paying attention to what is going on around them) than adults are. Children that see something "strange" tend to turn their head to look at it for a time. And what I have found (and this is not what I expected when I started going out!) is that children seldom pay attention to me either. Sometimes, sure, and I've had some great smiles from kids, but most, after looking briefly at me, just go on to look at the next person, or at the passing cars. I keep half-expecting a kid to tug on an arm and ask, "Mommy, why is that man dressed up like a woman?", but it doesn't happen.

Reactions would differ in other locations, I am sure. I can tell you, though, that in Japan I attracted more (overall) attention for being tall and white than I did for wearing a skirt.

[helena.gcd]

Hi Helena!

I don't see many guys my age (mid thirties) with shaved legs in Spain.

Do you live in Madrid?

Maybe I'm a bit conscious because I'm a bit obsessed about shaving. Every time I've shaved (like when I took my avatar picture), I was crazy about it, but next day was only hoping it grows back quickly.

Obviously, the question I've just asked reflects my own fears

in the mid thirties??? i'm 34 and i shave my whole body. Now, thinking about my 8 closest friends we find: 2 of them do the same all year round. 3 others have their legs shaven. They have little hair on their chest, but one of them sometimes also shaves, specially if we are going to the beach. Other 2 doesn't shave, but they aren't very hairy, anyway. The other one doesn't shave and he really should, has so much hair on his chest and belly that looks like wearing a sweater.

But this is just my group of friends, a bunch of active people who like playing sports, going to the beach and get tan in the summer.

i like going to swimming pool: lots of men, ANY AGE fully shaven.
When i went to he gym: regulars shave, you don't spend a lot of time there to cover your muscles with hair.
cycling: people any age shaves their legs.


So depending on your life style is not only common, but sometimes mandatory to have at least your legs shaved.
I bet that not many people who spend their life playing WOW and eating doritos shave their body, but they rarely have their skin exposed to the sun, so I can't tell.

P.S: i just did a search on the biggest spanish forum. There is a post to know if people shaves their legs. The result: 37% of males shave their legs, 63% don't.

it is a forum about random stuff, nothing to do with crossdressing. Age in that forum is usually between 16 and 3X.

[RachelOKC]

I think we get way hung up on what people *might* be thinking about us rather than on what they *actually* say and do. As a person with depression, this is so much easier said than done, but don't dwell on what you don't know for fact and don't try to control what is beyond you. Acceptance of simply what *is* goes a long way.

People notice. People look. Obviously most people (even in San Transcisco) won't have regular dealings with transpeople so their curiousity about us is just going to be normal. If I didn't have any legs to shave would I expect people to not notice and be curious about that? Of course not, I think I'd be more concerned with being treated respectfully.

Sure, I'd just rather go completely unnoticed, but I can't, so what can I do about it? Little, other than to just accept it, be myself, and try to engender respect. Take the time to get to know me, and people will find that I'm just as ordinary and boring as pretty much anybody else.

[joank]

My wife and I were served in Applebee's by a flamboyant waiter. Service was great and we ejoyed the meal. Job well done by the waiter the resturant and all. We noticed but did not care. The food came just the same.

[arbon]

I was out to dinner last friday with a group of women. A couple of them started to talk about a guy they know that they have noticed wearing mascara a couple times recently. Not that they were mean or anything, but they were curious about him doing it. people notice those things.

[busker]

The trick is not to care too much about what others think of you, to be perfectly honest.

Perhaps it is being TOO SENSITIVE in reaction to criticism rather than the CARING part. One can be concerned about one's public face, but getting too sensitive about it may actually hold a person back from doing something. If you like to dance but are not very good at, you still want to dance (and care what people say about your dancing) but don't want to be so intimidated that you won't dance anymore. It is a fine line, especially with CDing.

And I do believe that people see, and care about things near them, and that they don't speak up doesn't mean that the lights haven't gone on. I see lots of things around that makes me wonder very much about the sanity of some people I see, but it is their life and as long as it doesn't pose a threat to me, I leave it alone but I am definitely not a robot that doesn't register what is around me. We all have opinions and to deny that is absurd.

[JLynn17]

Confidence baby that is all u need... be proud of who you are, there is nothing to be ashamed of... I can tell u from experience more people are interested in what we do not because they think negatively about us, but because we are intriguing and very interesting people... Love life and all there is to do in it and hold your head up high when asked about anything...

[Lorenqt]

I was out to dinner last friday with a group of women. A couple of them started to talk about a guy they know that they have noticed wearing mascara a couple times recently. Not that they were mean or anything, but they were curious about him doing it. people notice those things.

Once, a lady I was working with asked if I was wearing mascara. I replyed, "So."

[Stephanie47]

I've been around long enough to realize some people go out of their way to 'notice' and 'comment' on everybody and everything. And, they expect you to have an opinion on everything and everyone, too! So, a guy shaves his legs. I've never shaved my legs, but, my daughter asked me once if I do shave my legs. She never noticed dear old dad never had much hair, and, as I got older it thinned out more- just like the top of my head. Of course, other people will go out of their way to make comments about guys you have as much hair as Big Foot.

As to a wife being two faced about cross dressing, people can be two-faced on any issue.

[PetiteDuality]

in the mid thirties??? i'm 34 and i shave my whole body. Now, thinking about my 8 closest friends we find: 2 of them do the same all year round. 3 others have their legs shaven. They have little hair on their chest, but one of them sometimes also shaves, specially if we are going to the beach. Other 2 doesn't shave, but they aren't very hairy, anyway. The other one doesn't shave and he really should, has so much hair on his chest and belly that looks like wearing a sweater.

But this is just my group of friends, a bunch of active people who like playing sports, going to the beach and get tan in the summer.

i like going to swimming pool: lots of men, ANY AGE fully shaven.
When i went to he gym: regulars shave, you don't spend a lot of time there to cover your muscles with hair.
cycling: people any age shaves their legs.


So depending on your life style is not only common, but sometimes mandatory to have at least your legs shaved.
I bet that not many people who spend their life playing WOW and eating doritos shave their body, but they rarely have their skin exposed to the sun, so I can't tell.

P.S: i just did a search on the biggest spanish forum. There is a post to know if people shaves their legs. The result: 37% of males shave their legs, 63% don't.

it is a forum about random stuff, nothing to do with crossdressing. Age in that forum is usually between 16 and 3X.

Thank you Helena!

I guess that your friends don't crossdress :-)

My biggest concern is gossiping, not from strangers, but for example, for the group of parents in my kid's school. You know how this environment is, the AMPA parents (a bunch like the "soccer moms" in the US, I guess) always bitching about everything and everyone.

I don't care what they say about me, but if it affects my kids or my wife, then I do care.

By the way, I'm a runner. I cycle sometimes. I've noticed some guys with hairless legs going unnoticed, but mine are too nice to not noticing (just kidding... well, maybe just a little). But if it's really that common here in Spain, them I shouldn't care that much and probably should go hairless next summer.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Ill answer this from experance as one who works with & is in the puplic eye,

while i was over in Austraila staying with a friend the other side of Brisbane ,my friend sold plants & trees, we would go to some large grounds & there were many other sellers, ,

While my friend had to go away for a while i looked after the site, quite a few people came in & asked me about plants & what not. i could have sold over 1000 $ worth of tree's & plants with out any problems . we did in fact do that , what im saying is , ...I... could have, while by my self for the day,

people did not mind or were bothered , that i was dressed in womans clothes & my facial features are quite male,

fact is they saw a person who was selling , & how i looked did not detract from what they needed or wonted & paid me for those tree's plants as they requred ,

My point for my self of cause is just because i dont look like a woman does that mean im not. i can do my job as i did, i allso put people at ease in my approch in how i talk with them & interact & this of cause is as a woman .

How do you know, in your post that this person is a dresser, could be trans or like myself I S. unless you ask you dont know,or your friend .before we pass judgement we need to understand the person or what they are,

I know of some women whos voice are so low & look far more male than i & yet they are still women like my self,

As to the wether one pass's or not. i dont & never will.

As to S O's if the dressing or one is trans out side of a marrage many people can accept because it dose not effect them directly with in can be a very different matter, & for some of us who are I S..same thing.

Tho as to shaveing legs arms or what ever, for Jos that would not even be thought about even 37 years ago.

I had to shave under my arms then because of sweating & rashes so that was a need to, even if i did my legs then no probes . same again rashes, so some comes down to health reasons

...noeleena...

[sometimes_miss]

Seems a lot of complicated answers to a simple question to me.

Put it another way. Do Some Crossdressers kid themselves they are not noticed or are accepted because they don’t get any reaction from others around them? Yes.

Are we to believe that, once out of earshot people have a derogatory discussion about ‘that man in a dress’, obviously.

This is me living in the real world. [It’s not always a nice world]

SUZY

^ this.
99% of us won't pass. Lots like to pretend that they do because they don't get any comments otherwise. To those, enjoy the fantasy. Just keep one eye on the truck full of drunken rednecks following you down the street when it's dark. Most people will politely ignore what we do. It's the few that won't that are the problem.

[Jacqueline Winona]

I tend to agree with Suxy and Sometimes Miss, almost all of us will be made by someone. But Bree said it best- who cares if they do so long as they treat you nicely.