Do they really don't notice / don't care?

[PetiteDuality]

Here, we can also find a lot of people asking things like "will others notice if I shave my legs". And most answers are "nobody will notice", "there is more acceptance", "tolerance has become higher", etc, etc. Some others answer "who cares, it's your life/body" but the truth is that many people cares, and this is why we find many of these questions here.

I know somebody who was in Orlando, and was attended in an Ice Cream store by a crossdresser. She was polite and said nothing, but she commented to everyone when she was back to the table. The CD did not hear a thing. And I guess that maybe she thought that with this customer, she passed, or didn't care, or was accepted. Pretty far from reality.

Not only about passing, the same with leg shaving, plucking, ladies jeans, etc. People might not say a word, but people take notice.

An a GG can tolerate crossdressing, even advocate for LGBT rights, But the same GG could freak out when they discover that her husband is a crossdresser. I think that this illustrates the difference between "tolerating" and "accepting".

What do you think?

[kimdl93]

I think this is a bit of overgeneralizing.

First, we can't read other peoples' minds, who knows if the CD in the Ice Cream store thought she passed or didn't pass, or whether she cared if others noticed. She probably went her business, knowing that other peoples opinions are none of her concern. Further more, the story tells us more about the person who related the story than it does about the CDr or the attitudes of society at large.

We also know that some prominent, very conservative people have expressed opinions that are not supportive of LGBT rights in general, but have dramatically different positions when it comes to supporting their LGBT children or siblings.

[Marleena]

I think this is a bit of overgeneralizing.

First, we can't read other peoples' minds, who knows if the CD in the Ice Cream store thought she passed or didn't pass, or whether she cared if others noticed. She probably went her business, knowing that other peoples opinions are none of her concern. Further more, the story tells us more about the person who related the story than it does about the CDr or the attitudes of society at large.

We also know that some prominent, very conservative people have expressed opinions that are not supportive of LGBT rights in general, but have dramatically different positions when it comes to supporting their LGBT children or siblings.

I think Kim nailed it right off the bat.

I believe if you present well it does not matter if you get clocked. People will have some doubt if you are TG or not. If you look like a "dear in highlights" you're in trouble right from the get go. You really can't care what others think or you are doomed to enjoy yourself dressed in the outside world. You have a right to be out there.

Just avoid teenage girls! lol.

[Karren H]

I try not to notice if other people notice or not and surely don't care I'd other people care..

[Allisa]

Of course people notice things around them,a man with shaved legs will be noticed but just as soon forgotten or commented on to someone else,we are all just being human and that is our nature to observe and react in some way good or bad.Accept or reject that is life in action, if it is not illegal or harmful than who cares.If you don't like your'e ice cream touched by a CDer don't go to that store.

Lisa

[Cheryl T]

This lady may have commented to everyone at the table, but you have to remember that this "cd" was working at the ice cream stand...someone hired her, allowed her to work en femme and did not have a bias towards it. If the customer was treated politely and courteously then what complaint does she really have??????
Perhaps the idea that this cd would have the nerve to be in public bothers her, but obviously others saw past that.

[Cait]

The trick is not to care too much about what others think of you, to be perfectly honest.

[~Joanne~]

I think this is a bit of overgeneralizing.

First, we can't read other peoples' minds, who knows if the CD in the Ice Cream store thought she passed or didn't pass, or whether she cared if others noticed. She probably went her business, knowing that other peoples opinions are none of her concern. Further more, the story tells us more about the person who related the story than it does about the CDr or the attitudes of society at large.

We also know that some prominent, very conservative people have expressed opinions that are not supportive of LGBT rights in general, but have dramatically different positions when it comes to supporting their LGBT children or siblings.

I read all the responses and have to agree with Kim's the most. especially the " the story tells us more about the person who related the story than it does about the CDr" . She was polite and served the customers well which is a lot more than you get at most places these days especially within the fast food industry.

[PetiteDuality]

Hey, I agree. I would never criticize the CD from the story, great for her and the accepting employer, and I like the fact that she is doing a great job at the ice cream shop. And I actually dislike the gossiping in the table from the woman. But who says that it's a generalization?

In this case, what would be a generalization in the typical answer we get in this forum about "nobody said a word, hence, they did not notice". That's a wrong assumption, and I think that people who is asking this do care what others think, otherwise, they wouldn't be asking.

From the CD from this story perspective, the woman did not show any sign of caring or noticing. She just got her ice cream, paid and said "thank you" with a polite smile. But the truth is that she did notice, she had a judgement and she gossiped about it.

It's just an external observation. I don't try to assess what others think. Sorry if it dissipates the pink fog. But "say nothing = don't care, accept, etc" is not necessarily true.

Just an observation

[Holly]

Kim nailed it. Here we have a TG person satisfying a basic need, supporting herself by working. She must be confident in interacting with the public since her job requires it. The woman customer must not have much of a life to have nothing better to talk about with her companions at the table than the person who served her ice cream.

So maybe the question should be, "Should we care if they care?"

[Aloha Jayne]

[QUOTE=PetiteDuality;2768022]Here, we can also find a lot of people asking things like "will others notice if I shave my legs". And most answers are "nobody will notice", "there is more acceptance", "tolerance has become higher", etc, etc. Some others answer "who cares, it's your life/body" but the truth is that many people cares, and this is why we find many of these questions here. QUOTE]

Yes, we can be ourselves and not care what other people think. And more power to us for that. But the truth is, people do care, and freak a little, if only to themselves or someone they are with. I know I do. And the people I know react the same way. This has nothing to do with us and how we feel, it has to do with people seeing something that gets them out of their comfort zone. Guys that have clocked me get this "What tha Hell?!!" look on their face. GGs giggle a little, but don't usually say anything.

I was buying nail polish from a beauty supply store yesterday in drab, but with clear nail polish on my fingers. The SA at the counter said: "so, what are you building?" obviously trying to ask the question she wanted to ask without really asking it. I said, "a model railroad". "Really?" she asked. "No, not really" I replied. Then she just off handedly said: "nice nails" I looked down at them, then back at her and said "thanks." She wasn't freaked out, and maybe even thought it was cute, but it made her a little embarrassed, and me too. So even though they may not show it, and might even accept it, people do care. But I was on cloud nine because I've worked on those nails for weeks, and she was the first one to say anything.

[Lorileah]

I know somebody who was in Orlando, and was attended in an Ice Cream store by a crossdresser. She was polite and said nothing, but she commented to everyone when she was back to the table. The CD did not hear a thing. And I guess that maybe she thought that with this customer, she passed, or didn't care, or was accepted. Pretty far from reality.

Change the description to any other minority. You cannot control what people think or how they react. In this age tolerance and acceptance are social norms, and yet those things still have pockets of resistance. Although one may not say it aloud and especially to the person, many still hold disapproval for many things. Your friend who had to comment on the cross dresser? Have you noted that they may have said the same thing about any other person who might have waited on them? Like the handicapped person at the store? Or the obviously religious person in the line ahead of them?

People who have the time and need to judge you on something really need to look in a mirror once in awhile. They need to take stock of what is and isn't important to their lives. Just how for example did the CD who served the ice cream change how your friend's life continued? Did they have to quit eating ice cream? Did they go home and find that hell fire and brimstone had destroyed their house.

When a GG "discovers" her husband it is the shock of having the husband keep secrets more than anything else. It breaks a trust that we have. The GG didn't change their mind at that moment. And if they truly believed what they were saying before they won't spin around 180 just because they find out. So either they were paying lip service or they have another reason to be upset wit their husband.

The majority of people have an agenda. You don't fit in their agenda. So unless for some reason you interfere with that agenda, they could not care less what you do or who you are. If they do, then they have an issue in their life they need to address. Like why do hairless legs on someone else interfere with your life?

[girlygirly]

Change the description to any other minority. You cannot control what people think or how they react. In this age tolerance and acceptance are social norms, and yet those things still have pockets of resistance. Although one may not say it aloud and especially to the person, many still hold disapproval for many things. Your friend who had to comment on the cross dresser? Have you noted that they may have said the same thing about any other person who might have waited on them? Like the handicapped person at the store? Or the obviously religious person in the line ahead of them?

I think religious folks are just as persecuted as CDers, for whatever that is worth. It comes from different people, but it does happen, and many people are just as "closeted" about their religious beliefs. It is something to think about, and I think there is just as much intolerance on both sides of the "moral fence".

I don't think public acceptance is ever private approval, and the friend at the ice cream stand was letting her true feelings show when she returned to the table. Any display of overt acceptance is nothing but basic civility, and not much will change that but time. What I am willing to let the general public see is nowhere near as guarded as what I would allow friends or family to see. It's not that I couldn't explain myself, it is my knowledge that no amount of explanation is going to change what people think for themselves in private. All of the people in my life I would be concerned about would have no problem being polite to a CD in public.

I was in Staples buying a memory stick about a month ago, and the cashier was an overtly feminine, obviously open CD or TS, but was clearly male. Even in the standard black trousers and red polo shirt that Staples makes employees wear, you could tell she was all female once the uniform was gone. I guess Staple won't allow breastforms at work, otherwise she could have passed. 'Tis a shame. I'm sure that if I had been with someone, we would have been discussing it on the way out of the store. It makes a strong impression for most people to see a man presenting as a woman, that is just something that has to be acknowledged and accepted. I was thinking about it all the way home.

[Lorileah]

I don't think public acceptance is ever private approval

Best line I have read in a long time

[AllieSF]

I agree that a lot of people probably do notice, but never comment, or only comment when alone with others. I am sure that I give off a lot of "something is different about me" vibes when my coffee friends see my clear polished nails or notice the lack of hair on my arms and legs, and maybe start wondering why I seem to have a lot of "random" experiences with LGBT folk and have knowledge about their lifestyles. They have never said anything to me, but if I ever really do get caught, I think that knowledge to them may make all the other telltales fit right in with the new revelation.

Regarding the CD SA at the ice cream place, maybe she was a TS instead of CD. Not many MtF CD's work dressed as women. I think the main thing here is that when we, CD to TS, are out in our preferred dress then our tolerance for criticisms and stares should be very high in order to be able to totally ignore those looks and stares, giggles and side commentaries that we see and can only imagine what is being said. An interesting comment made in one of the above posts references how people will comment on everything once in awhile. We have no idea what those comments are, and should not worry about them either. It is human nature to talk about others that we see, good or bad.

[Aprilrain]

I think this discussion serves to prove that for 99% of the worlds population gender is NOT fluid and the gender norms aren't going away any time soon. Of course people "notice" a guy with shaved legs or nail polish but most people are polite enough not to stick there nose in other peoples business.

I agree with Allie the "CD" was in all likelihood a TS . how many of you have gone out looking for work as a woman??

[Sandra1746]

Just a comment. We CD folks are a minority, that's a pretty obvious statement. Every minority in history has had to overcome discrimination that ranged from simple dirty looks to murder. Fortunately society is generally well beyond the murder phase although there are exceptions.

Public acceptance or tolerance is all we can really expect, it's just the aspect of being polite to others in public. Generally that's what I experience. Private acceptance is another thing entirely, but then again I don't expect folks I meet in passing to invite me to their homes for dinner.

Today I was out wearing a fem scarf, earrings, and my long hair, pretty fem looking. It's raining here and chilly, I had on denim slacks and a jacket. A GG and I passed going to the post office and she gave me a big smile and a friendly hello. I replied in a friendly manner and we went our separate ways. What she may have thought or said later is unknown and I really don't care. Smile and be friendly, it goes a long way.

Sandra1746

[STACY B]

Well if ya dont like my ICECREAM or if ya dont like me ,, Go an get your ICECREAM somewhere else !!! Becuz my ICECREAM is only for nice an sweet people . ICECREAM , YOU SCREAM ,, WE ALL SCREAM FOR ICECREAM ,, SERVED WITH STOCKINGS,,, SERVED WITH HEELS ,, COME AN GET IT WE HAVE GOOD DEALZ ,, SERVED BY A GUY DRESSED LIKE A GIRL ,, THERE IS A BUNCH OF US ALL OVER THE WORLD ,, HE DRESSES UP WHEN EVER HE CAN ,, SO WATCHA YA BIG MOUTH SHES STILL A MAN !!!

[suzy1]

Seems a lot of complicated answers to a simple question to me.

Put it another way. Do Some Crossdressers kid themselves they are not noticed or are accepted because they don’t get any reaction from others around them? Yes.

Are we to believe that, once out of earshot people have a derogatory discussion about ‘that man in a dress’, obviously.

This is me living in the real world. [It’s not always a nice world]

SUZY

[Marleena]

Well I say if they are talking about us they are leaving somebody else alone. No we will not go ignored. It is what it is. Our ears will be burning.lol.

As for the TG girl handing out ice cream, good for her!

[Stephenie S]

The bigot here is your friend in Orlando.

Do people notice? Yup. They do. Do they care? Nope. They don't. Not if they have a shred of human decency about them. As someone above said, change the TG woman to any other minority and see how you feel.

"OMG! Did you see that? I was just served by a black person."

Sounds pretty lame, right?

S

[Miriam-J]

It seems that the real issue transcends "noticed", "cared", and "accepted". Isn't our real issue whether there were any unacceptable consequences for the crossdresser? We can't do anything about others' private thoughts, as has been noted repeatedly in this thread, and we might as well just blow them off. People will think thoughts privately or say things in their little cliques they won't say publicly, but who cares!

Where I begin to care is when someone treats me in a way that can harm me, or my family, friends, or job. In some environments, even a slight offensive thought can be a great danger to one of these. In others, I might have someone say mean things even to my face but it won't cause negative consequences to the things that matter to me.

Miriam

[Bree-asaurus]

If you're treated like a decent human being, then why do you care what they say behind your back? News flash, people talk about other people behind their back all the time. It doesn't matter who they are or what minority they're from.

To think anyone can walk outside and be accepted by everyone without any negative thought is ridiculous.

If you don't want people to talk about you behind your back, don't leave the house. Oh wait... then they'll just talk about that weird hermit that lives next door...

[StevieTV]

"If you don't want people to talk about you behind your back, don't leave the house. Oh wait... then they'll just talk about that weird hermit that lives next door..."

Precisely, damn if you do, damn if you don't. This puts the ball directly in your court. You only have one life, live it as you like.

[Badtranny]

I have a good friend who is also one of my biggest supporters and he is an old school biker. I mean BIKER. Ponytail, long (long) beard, leather jacket, Harley, kind of a rough looking character. People say the same stuff about him as they do about me because we look different than everyone else. People talk.

Very few people are brave enough to be who they really want to be. Let 'em talk about us. Maybe they'll be inspired to live a little.