I feel pretty much the same. Certainly, I'd hate to be outted at work, but I'd also feel bad for some lout ridiculing an old person, who was just minding their own business.
It would be appropriate to interject a comment like , "is she a problem for you?" Of course, hindsight is 20:20.
A friend on this very forum, who was a public figure has told and shown me examples of the treatment she received from the press when she began transitioning, and in some cases was tricked in to telling her story, just to be publicly ridiculed in a national newspaper.Originally Posted by Helen Grandeis
Yes Kim with hindsight I may have reacted differently.And a number of you have stated that I should have made some comment in her defence, and maybe I should, and possibly would have, but as I stated a group had gathered, some of whom I do not know at all, this is what made me decide to say nothing
I miss the UK for the support networks there that could help me but I really don't miss the UK for the mindless stupidity of people who can't see past the gender binary.
To be transsexual in the UK is not good at least here it's acceptable though I do get the strange looks and some people staring at me, nobody would abuse me in public like I would be abused if i was still in the UK.
This is interesting. I live in the US and always thought the UK and especially the Phillippines were so much more progressive than here. The grass is always greener?
Still, although we do get strange looks sometimes (most people don't read us), I've only once heard a rude comment while I was with my SO. The vast majority of people do keep their comments to themselves or at least out of earshot.
And I need to add, a good chunk of people accept us with open arms and have no issues.
Reine
Certainly not intended as a criticism, Emma. I hope the experience comes to my mind if I hear a similar remark.
Your story reminded me of an event from my distant past, when I was in the Army. A fellow in our company was evidently doing what he could to get discharged - wearing mascara, wetting his bed, and finally getting caught in a compromising position with another guy from the unit. Well, that finally ended his service, such as it was. But I recall making a highly derogatory comment about the guy, and one of the other fellows in my unit, said, "Why does the fact that he's gay bother you so much".
Of course, I had my own secrets, and until years later, when I started to come to grips with my issues, I could be as bigoted in my remarks as anyone. In a way, I suppose I was using these opportunities to divert attention from my own "differences".
To paraphrase Winston Churchill. "She can go home and change back to being a man, but you sir, will still be an A$$."
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I would not fault Emma for not interjecting a comment concerning this intolerant person's statement. It is probably a CD-ers biggest fear to be outed to a group of co-workers or family members who are intolerant. Most people would be taken back by the comment-startled-unable to quickly think on their feet. Yes, on occasion I have questioned what issue does somebody have concerning a person's sexual identity, religion, ethnic background, etc. Unfortunately, I know people who are intolerant of anybody who is not a clone of themselves. Unfortunately, there are too many like that person.
And, I'll take Emma at her word the UK is a lot more intolerant than many parts of the USA.
So is fear now the official excuse for not doing what's right? Kim got called out in the military by a dude who may or may not have had an ax to grind, but he was unquestionably an upright kind of man.
This is really starting to bother me for some reason. All I hear about on this board is how manly so many CDs are most of the time, and how they can take care of themselves and nobody better get physical cuz they're still a man and yadda yadda yadda. Yet standing up for someone else is supposed to be scary?
I was in line a few weeks ago and this dude cut in front of some ladies and I turned around and said "hey, do you realize you cut in front of that group of ladies?" Maybe he did, maybe he didn't and it was none of my business but I could tell that it bothered THEM. By the way, I'm no badass, this dude would have likely knocked me out with one punch, but getting in a fight is NOT the first thing that comes to mind when I'm out in polite society. I know men probably think everything will escalate, but if you walk around being too afraid to speak up for yourself and others than I don't know how you could call yourself anything but cowardly.
I think the problem for TGs in the UK is that we don't know where we stand. CDing is not illegal. We have legal protection if someone attacks us (physical or mental abuse) under the "hate crime" legislation. We are free to CD anywhere, use any toilets etc. BUT, if there is a complaint to the police of any sort, we can be charged with "behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace". We'll probably get off without any problem if we behave well, but the threat is there. We just have to hope that nobody complains - all complaints have to be investigated.
**-* Kath *-**
Let them see that their words can cut you and you’ll never be free of the mockery. If they want to give you a name, take it, make it your own. Then they can’t hurt you with it anymore.
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
I have always believed you should pick your battles carefully. If the loud mouth started in the older ladies direction, intervention would be proper. By calling the guy out over his comment you don't really accomplish much. You really think you could change his opinion? Once I identify someone as an idiot or a bigot, I no longer associate with them, work or otherwise.
Is that a Chevy Tranny?only "tranny" in my vocabulary>
Maximus Decimus Meridius (Gladiator):
What we do in this life, echoes in eternity..
You can fine me here on Facebook!
Been a couple years ago I stop by Hooter's on way back from Highland games, I had on Kilt and some guy at a table says "hey are you Gay?" I turn around and look him up and down and respond.. "No sorry dude, but I am sure someone like you will have no problem finding someone who is."
All his friends told him to close his pie hole, and the manager (who is Scottish) ask them to pay up and move on.
Maximus Decimus Meridius (Gladiator):
What we do in this life, echoes in eternity..
You can fine me here on Facebook!
Maybe the friend was really shouting "granny".
I resent every aspect of what you say, your comments may have some relevance in a tolerant California, but you do not have a Clue what the repercussions could be in a small town in Northern England, I was not frightened of possibly getting into a fight, but of being outed, and I am frightened of what could happen to my family if I made a mistake and what I am becomes common knowledge. We are surrounded by Neanderthal sheep following sexual stereotypes who will jump on anything they consider out of the ordinary as this is what they expect their fellows expect from them, and therefore will do anything to increase supposed esteem, and make your Rednecks look like pussycats. I cannot understand how a member of this forum could make such criticism on another member, its not as if I made the comment myself
I think it's more about the fear of getting found out. It's not a stretch to understand why CDers are afraid of this: years of male social conditioning where the worst nightmare was to be thought of as being feminine, a "fag", a "woos", by one's peers and later the fear of social & economical consequences should the secret be let out.
Still I had no idea just how fearsome is the prospect of being found out until a few years ago when I watched a video posted by one of our members. She looked very nice, she had the voice down pat (which is rare), she had a petite stature, and she was in a hotel room contemplating just going out into the hallway to walk to the elevator and back. Never in my life would I have imagined witnessing such abject fear, such terror. I felt really bad for her. She was videotaping her first "leaving the room" episode to post here.
This is when I finally understood why so many CDers are not only closeted, but deeply closeted, and sometimes to even themselves. I don't know that anyone other than CDers can truly understand this. It's not just the fear of being ridiculed or shunned by others, I think there is also flack coming from a CDer's own male identity and I can't imagine the inner conflict this presents and the length of time it takes to resolve it for many CDers. It's a process.
Emma Leigh did say that in retrospect she should have said something, but she froze on the spot since there was a group of people there. I understand this. Maybe she would have said something if there had only been the two of them. But everything is a process and I'm sure that Emma Leigh will react a bit differently next time, and a bit differently the time after, just like the baby steps that CDers take to go out. One little baby step at a time, and that's OK too.
Last edited by ReineD; 03-23-2012 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Added a hug.
Reine
very well put Reine...................
"it all unfolds before your eyes ,let Merlin cast his spell" [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can totally understand your fear Emma Leigh - I live in the N. of England so know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately others who live in a more accepting and tolerant society cannot possibly imagine how parochial and judgmental small villages can be. You would never live it down if you were outed, your life and the lives of your family could be made hell on earth, and physical abuse would be a walk in the park compared to that.
Your choice was to voice a defence of the lady being ridiculed or protect yourself and your family from a living hell. No contest.
its not very often im dragged out of my comfort zone... (the lounge)... but here i am... there are many reasons over here to stay in the closet and its not a fear of being outed.... its a fear of total anihilation... believe me when you live in an area like Emma and i live and a few others i know from this forum ... rednecks... heck i could handle them all day.... im not going to get into an argument about being out or not ...nor social acceptance....im referring to Badtranny here... you might be all well and good in your world but honestly dont pass judgement on our world ...not until you live it.....and live it here...
[CENTER]Be sure the brain is engaged, before putting the mouth into gear
[SIZE="3"]Sam and I Are Now Together[/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Aaaah locals, thank you both for confirming I am not just paranoid
Maybe I'm missing something but how does speaking up in defense of someone "out" you? I've already said that he didn't have to fly the T-flag, meaning you don't have to tell people WHY you're offended other than it was an offensive comment and civilized people shouldn't act that way. I hear what RD is saying but does saying, "hey man don't be such an asshole" really mean your family is fated for a living hell?
I think the 'keep quiet' folks are being a little bit dramatic, and frankly that's MY territory.
Not to be unkind but I wonder about your "secret".
Were you in male mode?
Or like your photo in your avatar.
Still, it was brave of you to go back to the group that had gathered to find out if they were referring to you.
Braver yet to defend an elderly person.
[SIZE="4"]Momarie[/SIZE]
Az, with all due respect (and I'm not being patronizing) you and yours are purposely distorting my sentiment into a "coming out" tirade. I am NOT teven talking about coming out. I'm talking about showing proper human compassion for someone who is not in a position to defend themselves. I have an issue with bullies and cowards, I'll admit that but all you're doing here is demonstrating false bravado and excusing a person's cowardice by somehow equating that with him not wanting to out himself. Who said he had to? If he knew the guy who said it, why not just take the opportunity to be a bigger person and say "that's not cool dude". Do you really expect me to believe that saying ANYTHING would be tantamount to "outing" yourself?
Whatever, but I will judge it as I see it. You are of course welcome to disagree.
Yes you are missing something, by showing sympathy, you are condoning what they are, by condoning what they are you must be one yourself, THAT is their logic. YOU know nothing of living in these parts, fating the kids to a living hell, very likely
If I was like the picture in my avatar, I think it would have been safe to assume he was definetely refering to me dont you think?
Last edited by Emma Leigh; 03-23-2012 at 08:50 PM.
I’d love to say that I’d have said something fitting to the moron shouting out “tranny” but in all honesty until you’re placed into that situation you don’t know how you’ll react. As for the difference between the US and here I can only go by what I read on here. But I’m sure there is a difference. It does appear that CDing is far more accepted over there than here.
I’ve said this before but the place I live in is a place where being different is a reason for being attacked. Some of the locals here really do live in the dark ages. Why would I put myself into being physically attacked and being forced out of my home just because some mentally backward caveman shouted out to a stranger, something I disagreed with and the incident was over before it was even noticed by those around? Yes not and exaggeration things like this happen! Men of low intelligence will be men of low intelligence! Let them continue to be so while the rest of us laugh at them. If it turned to violence then believe me I would not stay silent but why bother causing more problems than its worth?
Last edited by Natalie D; 03-23-2012 at 08:51 PM.
It appears that the UK disagrees Melissa?
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