Risking annoyance

[Elizabeth Ann]

You all have been very patient with me, and I truly do appreciate that. I am the crossdressing parent of a recently announced transexual son. I have been trying to be supportive (she is 22, what choice do I have), but my own worries and doubts keep getting in the way.

Can I beg your indulgence one more time? Help me understand if this material is within the TS experience, when I keep feeling like I am letting my child make a mistake.

In a recent conversation I was relating to her some of the things I have learned from this forum. It turns out that she has also been participating in a forum on Reddit. This is a very general forum with a transgender section. I think it is mainly oriented toward younger persons. (One current thread is titled "How old is too old for HRT?" and was started by a 22 year old!) So I went to Reddit to read her writings. Aside from disturbingly frequent entries about marijuana, her first transgender post was 5 months ago. Could you please take a look at it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgend...call_for_help/

It just does not seem to fit the experiences or burning desires I read about here. I should note for you that although she says "I'm not trans." here, she says that she came to that realization a month or so later.

I have more to say, but I should just let you read her own words. And as always, if I have my head up my a**, just tell me. This is too important to me to worry about a few bruises.

Liz

[Kristy_K]

It sounds to me Elizabeth that she is just as confuse as the rest of us are about who or what we are. I would not have even consider me being TS 8 months ago. Then I accepted it and ran with it. As you have seen on this form that we are all different. Plus something to consider is her age compare to ours. With a age difference comes the way we think about things and how they will affect us. What things means to us doesn't always mean the same to younger people.

Enjoy your new daughter and just try to be a part of her new life.

Kristy

[kimdl93]

Here's my 2 cents worth. One may look to forums such as these to exchange ideas and options, engage in discussion with others who have common expereinces or issues. But, that's all. Although I felt a bit awkward invading your child's privacy by reading this post, I would suggest that there is a high degree of internal inconsistency in what she's saying. These internal consistencies need to be resolved by working with a qualified gender therapist.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Here's my 2 cents worth. One may look to forums such as these to exchange ideas and options, engage in discussion with others who have common expereinces or issues. But, that's all. Although I felt a bit awkward invading your child's privacy by reading this post, I would suggest that there is a high degree of internal inconsistency in what she's saying. These internal consistencies need to be resolved by working with a qualified gender therapist.

I should have mentioned that she is okay with others reading her material on a public forum (her mother wishes she wasn't). She has had some contact with therapists, but is not currently seeing one because, she states, she knows what she wants.

Liz

[Bree-asaurus]

I should have mentioned that she is okay with others reading her material on a public forum (her mother wishes she wasn't). She has had some contact with therapists, but is not currently seeing one because, she states, she knows what she wants.

Liz

Okay, well ignore my comment on the respect part I guess lol! Most people would be bothered by that but I guess you're in the clear :P

Well if she can talk to her therapists and get sign-off on her being trans, that would help. Because if she is who she thinks she is, a decent, educated therapist should see this and then be able to write letters of recommendation for her. If she is still confused, a decent, educated therapist should see this as well, and maybe help her realize this.

But the key is... the therapist needs to have some good experience with transgender individuals, gender identity and gender dysphoria.

[arbon]

I should have mentioned that she is okay with others reading her material on a public forum

Liz

Does she know you posted a link to her posts for discussion here?

[Elizabeth Ann]

Does she know you posted a link to her posts for discussion here?

She knows that I have discussed her extensively on this forum, and I have related to her some of the responses to her earlier writings without any objection from her. When she told me about Reddit, I don't think I specifically asked about posting a link. It is a publicly available, non protected forum for all to read, and I know that she believes, as I do, in the widest possible freedom of both speech and information. But I will ask her specifically about a link. Is a link materially different from relating her words?

Liz

[arbon]

She knows that I have discussed her extensively on this forum, and I have related to her some of the responses to her earlier writings without any objection from her. When she told me about Reddit, I don't think I specifically asked about posting a link. It is a publicly available, non protected forum for all to read, and I know that she believes, as I do, in the widest possible freedom of both speech and information. But I will ask her specifically about a link. Is a link materially different from relating her words?

Liz

I was just wondering. She may eventually come here and read all this, maybe she already has. I don't think I would be ok with it if my parent was doing what you are doing here. But I've never trusted them much anyway and keep them at arms length.

[AllieSF]

I think that you should be there for her and quit questioning her decisions. If she is as level headed as you say, she will do fine. Since the beginning of your threads about your new daughter, I get the impression that with all good parental intent, that you are trying to control and influence her too much. Let her live her life, love her, accept her as she is, support her where you can financially, and try to not interfere with her life decisions unless she comes to you for input. Good luck.

[Bree-asaurus]

I said I'm not trans at one point too.

Through the process of breaking out of years of suppression, and being exposed to who you really are is a very confusing and scary process.

You can't take something she said when she was scared and confused and assume she meant, or even knew what she was talking about.

Your head might be a little up there, but that's because you really have no idea what she is going through. You can't understand it because you haven't lived with it. This kind of stuff happens all the time from family or friends that don't understand and are scared of someone saying they're transsexual. They look to their past and try to find every clue that would prove they're not trans.

Instead of playing history detective, try listening to what she has to say now.

And also, she's 22 years old. Show a little respect... if you want to know what's going on with her, talk to her. Don't go digging through her life behind her back.

[Elizabeth Ann]

I said I'm not trans at one point too.

Through the process of breaking out of years of suppression, and being exposed to who you really are is a very confusing and scary process.

You can't take something she said when she was scared and confused and assume she meant, or even knew what she was talking about.

Your head might be a little up there, but that's because you really have no idea what she is going through. You can't understand it because you haven't lived with it. This kind of stuff happens all the time from family or friends that don't understand and are scared of someone saying they're transsexual. They look to their past and try to find every clue that would prove they're not trans.

Instead of playing history detective, try listening to what she has to say now.

And also, she's 22 years old. Show a little respect... if you want to know what's going on with her, talk to her. Don't go digging through her life behind her back.

Bree,

Thanks. This is really not behind her back, but I get your point. I have always felt she has a good head on her shoulders, and I need to keep reminding myself of that. I do know that my vantage point is different, and I can't know exactly what is going on inside her head.

I guess her mother and I are just a little in a panic because she has already found an endocrinologist in Baltimore who has written prescriptions for her to start HRT.

[Sally24]

Liz,
Even though she says at the outset that she's not trans., the rest of the intro seems to say just the opposite. I think what she has discovered about herself is what many of us have come to after 20 or 30 more years of living. She doesn't have the stereotypical "woman in a man's body" mindset but many of us don't. I don't personally hate my male body but if I could change it alot more feminine I probably would. And among your concerns, HRT doesn't make irreversable changes for awhile. I would have to say, take deep breaths and try to be as supportive as possible. She may or may not find HRT helpful. Give her time to find what makes her feel joyful.

[*Vanessa*]

Elizabeth there are some great honest, heartfelt comments here already. Totally agree with the living ones life sentiment and support dealie. We are human and being human we need to be organic. That deep emotion and sense of being is why we are talking here today and I'm pretty sure all would agree.

I think a lot of girls here have played the game "what term feels right" at lest once or twice in our younger lives. I wonder if there is more behind your thoughts then asking about hers? I'm asking if this might be more about you then her or even about how you should support her life choices. Most here have read her post, but does she know you are TG? Maybe this is the base of your issue? I'm just asking questions 'tis all.

[danielleb]

Opponent or Allie?

It's that simple. Speaking from a TS standpoint; you either fit into one or the other, or you don't exist. There is no grey area. Make a slight notion twoards oppostition and that's it, you're an opponent that has to be removed from her life. It's a long road to fight back from at such a highly emoitionally charged time.

Right now, for her, being TS is all that matters and every second counts and nothing can happen fast enough. Offer guidance, express your concerns, but don't ever set in place ultimatums, dates, or hurdles for her. If you want her to see a therapist regularly all you can do is offer (and it has to be a neutral person, you need as many neutral observers as possible, certainly not your therapist!), let her know that it's not for her, it's not a requirement, it's simply to appease your concerns, and make sure it's a semi informal arrangement like once a month or so. Know the doctors she's seeing (and you have to applaud her decision on some level to have gone to a therapist/doctor already and not just self medicated). Beyond that you really do have to leave it in her hands and the hands of the professionals she's surrounded by.

I can't imagine the difficulty for your family all around right now. If you band together no matter what happens you will all come out better people in the end for it. I wish you the best of luck!

[Sheren Kelly]

Liz,
As long as she is seeing a therapist to guide her decisions, and she doesn't take shortcuts, she will likely find the right course. If your suspicions are realized and in RLT, she decides that she isn't destined to transition, then she can change course. I have known someone who detransitioned and seems to have resumed their former lives well. Though HRT changes the body, SRS is really the point of no return.

[Elizabeth Ann]

I wonder if there is more behind your thoughts then asking about hers? I'm asking if this might be more about you then her or even about how you should support her life choices. Most here have read her post, but does she know you are TG? Maybe this is the base of your issue? I'm just asking questions 'tis all.

She does know that I am a crossdresser. I don't want to touch the "definition of a TG" issue with a 10 foot pole.

I am not sure if that is all you are asking. This whole experience has led me to think a lot about gender, and how abstract the concept seems to have become. I even started a thread on the crossdressing section called "What is Gender?" in which I confess to not being sure anymore. It is no longer connected to the physical body, but it can't be just socialization, which, after all, can be overcome. It's "between your ears" but not just "all in your head"!

Liz

[ReineD]

I even started a thread on the crossdressing section called "What is Gender?" in which I confess to not being sure anymore.

"Gender identity: A person’s intrinsic sense of being male (a boy or a man), female (a girl or woman), or an alternative gender (e.g., boygirl, girlboy, transgender, genderqueer, eunuch)." - WPATH

You know, there is an unprecedented number of people seeking transition in the last few years (decade(s)?). And much of this is finding it's way into the news. We even have a TS holding office in the current administration! There are blogs now from parents advocating for acceptance for their transsexual children. One of the most celebrated models of our time is a man who looks like a woman and who is ambiguous about his (her?) gender.

Chemicals have found their way into our ecosystems messing with biological gender among fish. How much of this has affected humans, and to what degree? And what about meds given to pregnant mothers during the 1950s?

We've come a long way from early last century, when Hirschfeld first coined the term "transvestite". More and more people are seeking gender counseling today, and I dare say that transgender issues have found their way into the curriculum of all would-be therapists.

Along with all these changes, it is inevitable there should be a great deal of gender deconstruction going on, especially among our young, who also witness an equally unprecedented, fundamental change in gender roles among their parents which has trickled down to even greater degrees among their peers.

[LeaP]

Help me understand if this material is within the TS experience, when I keep feeling like I am letting my child make a mistake.

To be perfectly honest, I don't see the same significance in the post that you evidently do. It's brief and rather introductory - thematic but neither detailed nor emotional. It's just the sort of thing you might say to someone before you are ready to bare your soul.

The phrase I keep coming back to is "letting my child make a mistake". I know this is hard stuff to see happen, Liz, but 22 isn't a child anymore and you aren't in control. The damage that could ensue from you trying to assert control or even heavy influence could linger for years and extend beyond your relationship with Davin.

Lea

[Bree-asaurus]

The phrase I keep coming back to is "letting my child make a mistake". I know this is hard stuff to see happen, Liz, but 22 isn't a child anymore and you aren't in control. The damage that could ensue from you trying to assert control or even heavy influence could linger for years and extend beyond your relationship with Davin.

BINGO

Whatever she does is not your decision to make. I'm not saying you shouldn't control her... you CAN'T control her. She is her own person and is going to do what she needs to do.

If she is transsexual, then the mistake would be to not transition.

I could have made a mistake a couple years ago and splattered my brains on the highway in an attempt to end the suffering. I DIDN'T make that mistake... I made the right choice and I'm happier now than ever... even with the struggles of being transsexual.

I guess her mother and I are just a little in a panic because she has already found an endocrinologist in Baltimore who has written prescriptions for her to start HRT.

Exactly... YOU are afraid. And YOU need to learn how to deal with it.

If she was prescribed hormones, chances are the doc thought she needed them. And if she starts HRT and it isn't what she needs, she will know it. Plenty of non-transsexuals have tried HRT and didn't like how it made them feel... and they stopped with no harm done, but a little more insight into who they really are.

Starting down this path isn't the end. She can always change her mind and be okay. What you're worried about is that she may indeed be transsexual and you are afraid for her. But you can't do anything about that.

[Frances]

I once told a panel of 15 psychologists that I was not trans and did not want to become a woman. It's her journey. Therapy is all about peeling off the layers and getting to the truth. We lie to ourselves a lot. That said, I don't like the "letting my child make a mistake" talk. Her identity cannot be debated or argued. You can, however, encourage her to go through the therapeutic process to get to the truth, whatever it is. If you don't like the idea of having your child transition, remember that most trans people do not want to transition either. Is just has to be done.

[Elizabeth Ann]

To be perfectly honest, I don't see the same significance in the post that you evidently do. It's brief and rather introductory - thematic but neither detailed nor emotional. It's just the sort of thing you might say to someone before you are ready to bare your soul.

The phrase I keep coming back to is "letting my child make a mistake". I know this is hard stuff to see happen, Liz, but 22 isn't a child anymore and you aren't in control. The damage that could ensue from you trying to assert control or even heavy influence could linger for years and extend beyond your relationship with Davin.

Lea

Lea, and others,

Thanks for both points. Perhaps I am reading too much into it. She has always been a bit fearless in what she writes.

My own therapist has also warned that this is not my decision to make. It does hurt that some barriers between us seem to have already gone up, and I have to work on a rapprochement. It is just that it is like our child saying, "watch me leap the Grand Canyon on this motorcycle." She may be able to do it, but it is hard to smile and say good luck.

Liz

[Bree-asaurus]

It is just that it is like our child saying, "watch me leap the Grand Canyon on this motorcycle." She may be able to do it, but it is hard to smile and say good luck.

It's been done before... you just have to be a daredevil. And like I said before, this isn't something any of us would wish on anyone... but if she is transsexual, transitioning is the SAFER alternative.

[KellyJameson]

Hi Liz

Your words touched me and the love for your child is evident.

The words written by your child could have been my own. When I read them I could see my own hand writing them. This is what I call the experience of a body holding feminine energies. I personally experience it as sensitivity, hyper-empathy ( the female version of autism) and I also test out on the Myers-Briggsas INFJ. This can be a wonderful way to live but it has many dangers because you stand contrary to the way the majority of people experience the world.

The greatest problem for me has been in the area of sexual relations because it has caused great conflict within my own mind and hurt others emotionally because I could not form attachments to them as well as slowing my own emotional growth that would have come from loving relations with others.

Moving slowly but guilt free in the discovery of ones sexual identity is the greatest challenge in my opinion. This energy makes it feel natural to physically open yourself as a woman does to others but it runs contrary to the male form. The male penetrates the female and it becomes very confusing to try and do both acts simultanously.

The guestion I would ask of your child is if he wants to keep the ability to penetrate another with his penis. The answer will indicate what energy is dominant. To enter another, to be entered or to be able to do both are all symbolic acts of our deeper energies and indicate our true psychological selves.

If my words have any value or I can be of help in anyway please do not hesitate to P.M me.

The love for a child is the gift we give to the world so please do not think you have your head up your a... and you certainly are not an annoyance. Kelly

P.S.
Elaine Arons book on highly sensitive people has helped me learn to manage my own extreme sensitivity and helped make me feel like less of a freak.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Liz,

I know you and your wife love your child very very much but this is her life.
She's 22 years old. You and your wife have no choice but to stand back and let her lead her life.
Are you going to close the door on her like your wife already has or are you going to support her?

Very soon she will grow so tired and angry of your concerns that she will stop communicating with you like she stopped communicating with her mother.
Do you want this Liz?????

Whether you do or don't does not matter because she will be gone and you'll be regretful.

Stop it....Stop it now Liz!!


Julia

[ReineD]

I have a 22 year old son. And 26 & 18 yr olds. I understand.

I also know that as independent as your son/daughter is, or at least as my boys are (staunchly independent just like their parents), when they hurt they want to know they are OK. Still. Even though they pretend they don't, they do.

So you're OK in my book. Also, you are not ramming yourself and your views onto her. You are respectful of her freedom of choice. She knows this. It appears as if she has a much closer relationship with you than I've read from other members here whose parents were critical or gave up on them.

When I was 20 I knew that I wanted to spend my weekends with the man who subsequently became my husband. This was many years ago and my father at the time staunchly objected to sex outside of marriage. He told me that unless I was prepared to sleep at home, I'd have to leave. I knew everything when I was 20 especially with regards to my own life since my father had such antiquated ideas, and so I left. Looking back now I see that I should have followed his advice.

That said, I like the advice your child received on reddit to get therapy and I hope she takes it to heart. And I hope she finds a therapist who believes that gender is not binary. This is a concept that few people understand since we are all surrounded by either men or women. But I suspect there are far more people in this community who would feel freer if they embraced the concept, which it appears your son/daughter did when writing that post.

I don't know the difference between feeling fully and truly female such as Bree, Melissa, Kaitlyn, Julia and others here (don't want to leave anyone out) who know without a doubt they are female, and feeling this overwhelming excitement at the prospect of experiencing femininity that others describe, even when they are not sure. From my POV as a GG, being feminine is a good thing but it is not as enthralling as young trans people often describe it and I often wonder how much this high level of emotion is affected by the release of dopamine, endorphins, oxytocin, and vasopressin. If the desire were fueled by this chemical release then it seems as if a person's true nature might not be female, but then having released these chems over a period of time might well cause a bond to be formed with the target gender so that it really doesn't matter what came first, the chicken or the egg. I hope that gender therapists have this figured out.

Ultimately, I agree with others here. If your child is making a mistake, it is hers to make and also for her to experience the joy if she isn't. All you can do is be there for her should she ever need you.

Has she considered her career options with transition? My middle son has just received an undergrad degree and he at this point still has idealistic views on fending for himself in the real world. I did too, before I was out there. My son is at the tail end of receiving support from his parents. He is currently wavering between finding a job that will give him the salary he feels he deserves, or going on to grad school.