I Guess I Can Understand Why Most Women Hate Us...

[KateSpade83]

I was thrift shopping a 50% off sale at Village this Saturday, and I noticed maybe 2 or 3 lesbians. One wore a baseball cap and dressed like a dude. Another was almost bald with a shaved head. When I see these type of butch dyke lesbians sometimes I detest them saying, "Why don't they appreciate their femininity and enjoy being a girl?" Yeah, I kinda don't like butch dykes like Chaz Bono... in fact, maybe I hate them a little but I tolerate them. And I have never seen a butch dyke lesbian at any job I had ever worked.

But then I think it might be a little hypocritical of me to think this way... I mean, I do the same thing... I like dressing up and wishing I was a woman. I should appreciate my manhood but my manhood was shot down in Sr Yr H.S. [bad experience with girls and society]. I tried being a successful man but I never had a good paying job that lasted 5 to 10 years. I never sought out being gay or having sex with men, so I don't consider myself gay but people condemn me for being gay or a big nerd for my crossdressing.

So what are your thoughts about this?

I also wouldn't like a feminine wife to turn into a butch dyke, and I'd like her to dress feminine and not like a man, - except maybe during role reversal sex or so...

I'm thinking about quitting crossdressing again because as I reflect on my life and past "episodes," - I think crossdressing is cursed. I tell God I won't purge, rather, I want a pretty woman my size and height to wear my clothes. So I ask God to "convert me..." I resisted purging back in Feb 2009.

[JenniferR771]

Hang in there, Kate. There is a cute someone out there for you somewhere. Perhaps an artistic type that dances only to the song in her head. Perhaps a nerdy "bi" girl...sometimes the fit is good because they have the best of both worlds, (in you). And if she is your size...zowie! Don't get rid of you skirt suits. They are too cute. And would cost too much to replace.

[Diane Elizabeth]

Chaz Bono is not a butch dyke. He is a transgender man. I don't care for butch dykes either, however, I am not putting them down for what they believe in how they want to present themselves. I am sorry you had a bad time in HS and seem to want to take it out on lesbians. I didn't do very well in HS either with the girls. Hope you feel better after venting.

[NathalieX66]

You're looking from sympathy from the wrong crowd, my dear.

I'm out in public....restaurants, shopping malls, movie theatres, anywhere, anywhere, anywhere. ....was treated like gold at a women's cosmetic store yesterday. Heterosexual cisgendered girls, I have no problem with......the lez crowd seems to get their guard up.

I was at Keystone Conference this weekend, and one of the speakers during lunch was a FTM transman....most masculine guy you ever saw. His explanation was simple: There is no opposite between us. You can't compare the experience of transmen to transwomen, the feeling s and struggle are not the same. There is no yin/yang. We are all the same but to varying degrees.

Butch girls are pretty tough, but they are still girls. They are not motivated by anything called a penis...simply because they don't have one.

[KateSpade83]

I'm not taking out my bad experience in H.S. on butch dykes... I generally don't like butch dykes but I don't bother them.

[NathalieX66]

Kate, I don't know what else to tell you.
My high school sweetheart & prom date for my junior & senior years was my best friend back in those days was quite attractive , but she was tomboy-ish, was was quite into softball. I found her very attractive. She was strong, and for whetever reason, i found that attractive.
Now she lives with her girlfiend. She is who she is....I am who I am, that's just the way it goes.

[Shananigans]

Intolerance seems to fuel the world. Unfortunately, we seem to respond to intolerance by becoming intolerant. I wouldn't fall into the trap. Take your past and learn from it...don't blame other people who have nothing to do with you for your experiences. Women who choose to dress "butch" are dressing how they want to dress, and I bet many of them would care less if you wanted to dress feminine. Now, if you called them "butch dykes," you might get f*cked up. You seem to be dancing around on a surface level of trying to figure out WHY these women bother you so much. Detesting and hating people that you barely know are pretty strong emotions just to wish these women dressed to your ideal feminine fashion.

I wish you all of the best and hope that you find comfort within yourself.

[Krististeph]

I can see where we are kind of polar to the BD. I'm sure there are BD who do not like us, and some who 'live and let live'. It's hard having bad experiences young- i've had a few and generally they have been isolated in nature, i've found out. but nothing wrong with keeping your guard up- or at least not dropping your guard. That's one thing i've never regretted. maybe i've lost a few opportunities this way, but nothing i can't live without- and i'm happier being careful when it comes to CD. Maybe this will change if i come out a bit more- but for now, discretion is the better part of valor- boring maybe, but it also gives you a good reference for when you decide to act.

Getting philosophical... sorry Kate! whereabouts in chicago? I lived in LP, Bridgeport, Rosemont, then moved to the nw burbs

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Kate, Crossdressing is like the Miafa you just cant quit and what ever you do DON'T PURGE.

[sandra-leigh]

I should appreciate my manhood but my manhood was shot down in Sr Yr H.S. [bad experience with girls and society].

About a year and a half ago I connected with a woman who had been part of the more "in" group of (then-young) women in my high school. Part of the group who knew who was doing what with whom, who knew who "liked" whom.

In the course of conversation with her, I confirmed what I had suspected for more than 30 years: that no-one had been "interested" in me in high school. It wasn't that I had "missed the signs": there hadn't been anyone. No-one had been disappointed or heart-broken that I missed the prom -- even my best friends didn't express any regret that I wasn't there.

So you had a bad experience with girls and society: I wasn't even considered male enough to notice. You existed enough to be rejected: I was "background".

I survived.

I'm thinking about quitting crossdressing again because as I reflect on my life and past "episodes," - I think crossdressing is cursed.

Like I said in a previous "quitting" thread of yours: if you want to quit, go ahead. There's no-one here stopping you. You do what you must because it is right for you. Just walk out the metaphorical door and don't come back. Does an alcoholic in rehab hang around bars? Go and make peace with your life.

[Julia Welch]

You nailed it yourself ... YOU are a hipocrite !!

[Miranda-E]

So what are your thoughts about this?

I can't even type what I think about that.

[Katesback]

Kate:

First of all I dont think that most people hate CDs. Society often looks down on CDs but thats primarily the fault of CDs because they for the most part live a life of secrecy and hiding and all that does not bode well in the eyes of the world. As I have said if people want respect they need to show they deserve it.

Second what you dont understand is that being a woman is more than what your wearing and what you look like. So for a woman its no big deal NOT to wear a dress or look all dolled up. For you to say or imply that a butch lesbian woman is not enjoying being a woman is really absurd. They might or might not enjoy being a woman but being butch is not indicative of that.

[Jenniferathome]

You "think it might hypocritical" to think this way? It is. It is also bigoted. You hate Chaz Bono? And you formulated this opinion by LOOKING at him? Wow. You need to get your head right.

[ashleymasters]

Sweetie, I don't know you and I mean no offense. But this post was so unnecessarily negative and at points hateful, discriminatory and derrogatory. This all just seems the opposite of why we're on this site in the first place. You seem to be struggling and I do hope you find happiness and love but peaceust come first

[KateSpade83]

I'm only a "little bit" hypocritical in hating butch dykes and their looks. But when it comes to their employment or reputation or friendships in society, - I don't bother them, I wouldn't blacklist them for a job, and I wouldn't ruin their reputation for friendships... - But people have done this to me for being a crossdresser.

I live in Wicker Park, Chicago.

I was also wondering what you other people think about butch dykes... And yeah, I hate Chaz Bono somewhat. This is why I see some people hate me too for simply being a crossdresser.

[Marleena]

Sorry I got sidetracked there, Katespade. Kate it's obvious you are not happy but lashing out at others won't help as you'll see here.

I think you need to find what will make you happy and work towards that goal. Venting is fine as long as it isn't directed at other people.

[Kate T]

@Katespade

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It is about that simple. Your intolerance and hate I am concerned comes from an inner self directed hatred of your CD'ing and perhaps other issues. You will have to resolve that first before you will be happy in life.

[Eryn]

I don't think that the majority of GGs (or any other segment of the population) hate CDers. They haven't formed an opinion of us at all, since we don't even register on their radar. If they do encounter one of us their opinion will be formed on the spot by how we treat them. That, and the fact that they can't be absolutely sure we're not a GG with masculine characteristics will carry us through the encounter. I think that's a very good reason to be nice to everyone we meet!

[sandra-leigh]

I was also wondering what you other people think about butch dykes..

I don't think anything particular about them as a category. I'm not sure that I'd even recognize one these days, as distinct from transmen. The many clean-cut people with suits that I see respectfully attending the Transgender Day Of Remembrance, I don't wander up to them and ask, "Hey, babe, what's your gender?" (I can hardly expect everyone to even know their own gender considering I don't know my own.)

And yeah, I hate Chaz Bono somewhat. This is why I see some people hate me too for simply being a crossdresser.

I believe that's called "projection". But even supposing you are right about some people hating you for simply being a crossdresser, what do you want to do about that, or what do you want us to do about that?

I'm quite sure there are people in the world who hate me for belonging (or appearing to belong) to one or more category that have nothing to do with gender. There are people who hate everyone who works for the same employer I do. There are people who hate me for being mixed race (I'm half Slavic and half historians-really-can't-decide). There are people who hate me for working in technology. There are people who hate me for being Canadian. There are people who hate me because my father converted religions to marry my mother. There are people who hate me for not being vegan. Hate, hate, and more hate. We can't live our lives to try to placate the hatred of people who hate us for just existing.

Live your life well, try to help people -- and try to abandon hatred. “Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.” -- Malachy McCourt

[ReineD]

I was also wondering what you other people think about butch dykes... And yeah, I hate Chaz Bono somewhat. This is why I see some people hate me too for simply being a crossdresser.

First of all, Chaz Bono has transitioned and he's a man. To call him anything else is an insult to him and all other transmen. Please stop referring to him as a she and a lesbian.

Secondly, I hope you mean when you say you don't like butch dykes, that you are not romantically attracted to them and that if you ever got to know a butch dyke as a friend you'd think she's a nice person. If you don't mean that, then you are a bigot. You should work on this.

Third, the way you feel about some segments of our society or any prejudices you may have, has absolutely nothing to do with the reasons that many people (note I said many PEOPLE, not just women as you mention in your title) are intolerant of gender and sexual non-conformity. The reasons for this are varied and they are deep.

And last, I've deleted/edited more than half a dozen posts in this thread for bickering, being off topic, and personal attacks. Kate, your opening topic was hate-filled and I guess it's bringing the worst out in everyone.

I'm closing this thread before it gets much worse.