Please remember that some of us do not identify as female crossdressers.

[Taylermade]

people are getting offended if someone happens to say "hi gurls"? Wow, people these days are so damn sensitive.

Here is a thought, just ignore it and move on with life. I would say in all honesty the majority on this site would probably classify themselves as "gurls".
So perhaps those others are OUTnumbered more than likely if I had to guess. Nothing wrong with identifying yourself as a male cd, but don't be so picky.

[Diane Smith]

What Eryn said, 100%. I try to save my outrage for meaningful issues.

- Diane

[Rachel Renee]

Sorry, but i cannot bring myself to refer to the members as "Howdy Dudes in dresses." If you have adopted a female name, if you dress and present and take pictures, and use female avatars, you are female while you are here. What you are on your time is your business, but dont give me a female picture and resent being referred to as girl. This is a friendly place, and friendly women refer to each other as girls all the time.

The reference to use of "boy" is an example. Black to black it is used all the time, and worse are used as familiar greetings among like minded people. Girl is merely indicative that we are all friends here, we are all dressing as females (some more serious than others, but still the same) and I intend to be as friendly as I can be, and want all to be friendly with me. I am one of the girls when I am here. What i am when I log off is no ones business, and I would never call you girl if i met you in person, that would be presumptuous.

Have fun, be my friend

Barbara

My sentiments, exactly.

[BillieJoEllen]

For what its worth to be addressed as a girl, lady, woman is a bit of a confidence builder for me. Seems way too many things are falling into the pc realm these days.

[Eryn]

I recall one of the first times I was out dressed, I was shopping a jewelery kiosk with a CDing friend. The salesgirl walked up and said "Hi guys, anything I can show you?"

Nope, she probably hadn't made us. GGs occasionally refer to each other as "guys!" If they can handle it, I can too.

[KellyJameson]

I prefer the intimacy of using someones first name when addressing them and to further that intimacy I honor their own individuality by giving them latitude to be themselves in whatever form that takes when communicating with me without fear of my becoming judgemental so call me what you will just do it with tenderness please.

Having lived a life filled with oppression, ridicule, rejection, humiliation, cruely, condemnation, ,physical violence and or threat of, ect... for simply not being manly enough to suit others tastes seems to have had the strange effect of making me very tolerant toward giving others the freedom to live in peace.

[JessHaust]

....But I've seen too much evidence that a lot of CDs at some level hate their "girlishness," even while they are revelling in trying to be as "feminine" as they can be, ...

Really? What evidence? I know many Crossdressers in person, and read the posts of tons more, and although some fear exposure, I've never seen and evidence that we "hate" our "girlishnese".
I love mine, and am proud to be called 'Girl'.

[Jeanna]

With so many new people joining recently, it seems appropriate to inform those who may not be aware that it is presumptuous of them to begin a post using, "Hi girls" or something similar.

Many of us are not "girls" or "gurls". We are male crossdressers.

There are stickies dealing with this matter. Please read them and take note!

Really? Take note, most of us do present as females, as you do as depicted in your avatar. Good grief Charlie Brown, this is a MTF thread that you are posting in.

[Foxglove]

"Girls" can be used as a friendly form of address for GG's, just as men often call themselves "boys". I haven't often heard some guy say to his mates, "See you later, men!" But I've heard plenty of men say "boys" or "guys" or "mates" or what have you.

I remember once greeting a group of GG's by saying, "Hi, girls!" And then I corrected myself: "Oh, excuse me. Women! I wouldn't want to be accused of sexism." And they just laughed. Calling women "girls" is being friendly, not sexist, if you're being friendly.

As for me, I've started saying, "Hi, Guys and Girls!" when I start a thread. If there are some who prefer to be addressed as "guys" on this forum, they're included, and those who prefer to be addressed as girls are included. So it seems a good solution to me.

As for me, I'm a girl on this forum, whatever about life on the outside. But recently I was addressed as "Annabelle" by a friend, and it didn't bother me the least bit. Made me wish I'd heard more of it in my life.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[muzzy]

You can call me girlie,girl and gurl if you like ,just don't call me late for a date xoxo

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Count me in as one of the girls "girlfriends!" No matter how mannish I might happen to be!

[Julie Martin]

To each their own. Seems like much ado about nothing to me..but then, what do I know. I'm a guy. Girl? Gurl? Whatever :-). Have a great day, people!

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

As someone whose avatar is usually a picture of me in boy mode, and whose general mode of presentation is usually male, I have no problem being lumped in with the girls. After all, for years now I've heard groups including and sometimes even exclusively comprised women referred to as "you guys," and it doesn't seem to be a huge issue. In Spanish and I assume a lot of other languages, you always default to the masculine pronouns whenever there are any men involved it seems, so I just view this board as the opposite of that, here we default to female because of the nature of the board. And, I always want to be "of the the girls" the same way plenty of girls I know are happy to be "one of the guys."

Having said that, I definitely get annoyed when people insist on using the feminine pronouns when referring to someone who is specifically not presenting as female. Such as Eddie Izzard which I've seen and Andrej Pejic, which is a little more understandable but technically incorrect.

Clayfish I do agree with Reine though that you confuse the matter by having an extremely girly avatar. There's nothing wrong with Tinkerbell, she's a favorite of my youngest niece, but it definitely shapes the way people think of you when you post.

[Imeni]

Is this seriously an issue needed to be brought up? Seems like someone is being overly sensitive... o.o Speaking as a Man who looks the least feminine you can be in a dress, I would feel a little wierd if someone started referring to me as "Maam, sweety, girl or hun", mostly due to the fact that I wont ever look like I do in my head. Which is why I prefer the gender neutral, "Dude" or, with my very old friends, "B-man". It has nothing to do with sexism, or whatever nonsense was spouted here. I've never seen the term "ladies or girls" in the start of a thread used with a negative feeling behind it, so why poke a bear that has no issue with the actual stick. Sort of feels like someone is stirring up the hornet's nest just to watch the hornets get pissed off.

But thats my two sense. Too bad a couple of pennies don't amount to much these days.

[Diane Elizabeth]

I only read a few of the responses here and it was making me PO'd. I am sooooo tired of all this political correctness everywhere I go. If you (those that take offense) aren't happy being addressed as "girls" here then skip the posts and read the ones that are addressed to you. I understand that feelings can be hurt but no one should be taking offense of how a letter or a post is addressed to greater population. This website is open to a wide variety of people FtM, MtF,

[Sara Jessica]

I dare to say that those who share OP's POV are in the minority in the MTF section.

If one ID's as a CD'er, they are more likely than not to take on a feminine persona when dressing. If one is like myself who identifies on the TS end of the spectrum, my persona is what it is, 100% female. But regardless, it would be rude to refer to either camp as male.

Speaking for myself, I don't like hearing the word "girl" used to refer to anyone except a human female under the age of about 18 or 21.

When people call adult women "girls," it always sounds like they don't take them seriously, like they're saying, "there, there, go back and play with your dolls." It's sort of like calling an African-American man "boy." And I'm not alone in this -- over the past 40+ years, I've heard an awful lot of women say they hear it as a put-down. If you do this, especially if you're male -- and a lot of GMs here at CD.com do it -- you're being sexist.

When people, especially males, call males "girls," it's usually intended as an insult. Back when I was growing up, I had people say, "what are you, some kind of girl?" to me often enough (and, no I wasn't CDing then), and I heard a lot of other boys called the same thing, and it was not a complement. 50 years have passed, and, outside CDing circles, it's still always meant as an insult. It's also a misogynistic insult, since it's based on the idea that female-ness is something disgusting or shameful. In other words, it's a two-for-the-price-of-one insult: it insults the man, but it also insults all women at the same time.

I'm sure that lots of CDs are going to try to tell me that they don't mean anything negative by calling CDs "girls." But I've seen too much evidence that a lot of CDs at some level hate their "girlishness," even while they are revelling in trying to be as "feminine" as they can be, and that's what I hear when CDs here say "girls." Besides, if you really aren't sexist or misogynistic, why make it sound like you are?

Now I've said my piece. I'm not the language police, and I'm not going to call you out if you call yourselves, or other CDs, or your SOs, or the GFs here "girls". But you know what i'll be thinking.

I was called out on using the term girls several years ago in another forum. IIRC, it was for my use of the term "gg", that the "girl" in girls carried the very perceptions you are talking about along with the fact that how do we truly know one is "genetic" (oh please)? I pointed out many areas where natal females often use the term "girl". A perfect example is "girls night out" but regardless, I hear it used weekly, whether from my wife, our friends or colleagues at work. Hearing it used in a general sense in pages such as these doesn't bother me although personally, I rarely use the term "gg" and instead default to natal female out of respect for the woman who originally called me out.

The CD'er going a bit over the top with the usage of the term "girl" is more likely than not very harmless and is not necessarily a symptom of any sort of misogyny. Instead, I often see it as arising out of behavior befitting a teenager who is finding her way in the world. Granted, we are likely talking about an adult male who is coming to terms with his CD'ing and/or exploring methods of expression but either way, when one puts it into context and assuming there is no overt misogynistic statements, it really is rather harmless and not worth too much effort to worry about. If anything, it often comes across as fake or contrived but again, I try not to read too much into it.

[Sarasometimes]

Exactly PINKY! I'm with you GIRL/GURL. to those offended Lighten up! You are in "male to FEMALE Crossdressing", when in Rome..... With all the things we have to worry about I'm stumped how a friendly greeting offends you?
Here is my PC closing: bye girls, guys, gurls, ladies, gentlemen, bros, he/shes, she/hes, all y'alls, senora, senors, comrades, madames, mademoiselles, misseurs...sorry if I missed someone but I ran out of time.

[HannahF6]

I'm also one of the girls on this issue.

Hannah

[Renee W]

When I am on this site, I am Renee, so therefore I have no issue being lumped into a classification of 'girls'.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the defintion of some of the terms mentioned above in the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary and here is what I found:

Girl-
a : a female child from birth to adulthood
b : daughter
c : a young unmarried woman
d (sometimes offensive) : a single or married woman of any age
Guy-
a : man, fellow
b : person —used in plural to refer to the members of a group regardless of sex

[Wonderwho]

I have seen less of a heated response to far more important posts. We all go by names we relate to and if you are not pleased by Girl then you might want to take a closer look at the site you are on an why you are here!

[Cheryl T]

I certainly hope I don't look like a man....so please, do call me a girl!

[LeannL]

For the record, you can call me anything you want as long as you don't call me late for breakfast

Leann

[kymmieLorain]

So what is the forum getting politically correct? Come on people get a life. If you are presenting yourself as a female, I believe being called a girl would be a compliment. If we still had polls on here we could vote on it. This IS America land of free speech and that right is protected by the Constitution of the Untied States of America. Further more, I will address whom ever as I feel fit. If you do not like it, don't read my posts.

Off my soap box, LOL

Kymmie

[minalost]

Seems to me we could just about fill the forum with nothing but posts along these lines:
"I don't like being called this", "I don't like being called that", "I dont fall into this category, or that category"
My rule of thumb is that I try to only be offended if someone intends to offend me.
For example, a FTM posting something along the lines of "Hi guys!" would not offend me because there would be no intent to be offensive.
A troll coming into the forum and making a post like "Hey DUDES!" would really piss me off though, because he meant it to be offensive and mean.
In a forum like this, you cant have one rule fits all, and you are bound to read things that irritate you. You are gonna spend a lot of time being irritated if you choose to be offended when there is no intent behind it.

YES!!!!!! You said it perfectly! Now I'll read the rest...

[Lorileah]

i believe the Admin tried to stop this address a year or more ago. The thing is it tends to marginalize certain people. I get that.

Count me as the one who doesn't like "Gurls" or Gurlz" as I find it rather silly and inane. Otherwise, when you address a member here who presents as female, then Ladies, Girls, etc seems OK. I do think girls is sort of degrading to anyone under say 18. There are certain words or phrases that can express paternalism or can express a "higher than thou" position. Boy has pretty much been dropped from daily language as it often meant subservient male (in many races).

All that said, I don't care, I usually skip over the greetings that say "Girls" or similar just as I skip over letters that come in the mail that say "Greetings". I wonder if you visit a biker forum if they address each other as "Hey Bikers!" or a modelers section as "Hey you people who like to make little things". All in all it just seems silly.