Getting read by an 'Expert'

[Bree Wagner]

On Monday I had the day off work and had the chance to dress up. So, I went out to get a new wig (which I'm very happy with) and wore it out of the store before proceeding down the block to a Goodwill for a bit of shopping. I found a few nice tops and a Prada skirt in my size. It really made me wonder how much that skirt was originally sold for!

Anyways, I'm heading up to the checkout counter and there's one guy in line ahead of me finishing up. He writes something down on a scrap of paper and turns to hand it to me. He says "I used to work here, they do great makeovers." I said "Thanks" and put the note in my purse finished checking out and headed home. When I got a chance I looked up what the place was that he handed me the name and number to. It happened to be a Wig Studio/Concept Salon. On its website it specifically calls out Gender Identity Services. I kind of doubt this guy went around handing scraps of paper to everyone so it was pretty clear I'd been read. At least I can think that if he worked there a while he got the chance to see lots of people and be an 'expert' on noticing a few things. I really have no idea how I pass with the general public (unless I talk, then it's probably close to zero percent of the time) but clearly there are signs to be read. Oh well, not the end of the world and it was still a great day out.

-Bree

P.S. The place I was referred to is called Hana Designs. Anyone ever been there in Denver?

[Voulez-Vous]

I think the bottom line here is - when you think you're passing - think again.
Very few of us pass 100% w/o question.

[ReineD]

Bree, I study physiognomy a lot. I love to draw and paint. I don't want to be mean or anything, but there are very few CDs who can pass fully as women, under close scrutiny. There are many subtle gender cues (brow, chin, face width, distance between various points on the face, neck width, shoulder size, etc), outside of the more obvious gender cues such as hair length and style, the presence of breasts, and makeup. This is why many TSs who wish to live as women full time and not be read, opt for FFS on top of the effect of the feminizing hormones.

A GM might have a chance passing fully at all angles if he has a small stature, small hands and feet, small neck and shoulders, and is very young, and he doesn't have a classic male forehead or chin.

Still, most people do not look closely at passers-by, providing there is nothing in their peripheral view that raises flags, and judging by your avatar, you don't raise any. You look very nice.

[michelleddg]

Hey Bree, you nailed it...you were read by an expert with his finely-tuned antennae. Says nothing about how you sit with the general public. There's been much discussion in this forum about what to do when you think you've clocked somebody else. I would say your expert, having decided to establish contact with you, handled the situation with tact and finesse, and hopefully provided you with information you'll find useful and fun...Hugs, Michelle

[Barbara Ella]

as said, one bottom line is dont worry about passing.

The second bottom line (Iknow, two bottoms?) If you are confident, and have the great smile you do, and pleasant, those around you will be pleasant. I doubt he would have done the same for another crossdresser who was frowning and complaining. And from your avatar, I sense that you are a very pleasant person, and have very little problems with the public when you are dressed.

Did he look you in the eyes when talking? If he dropped his eyes, he was worried he might offend by an implication you really need a makeover (not likely). If he looked you straight and talked, he was complimenting you and speaking from a knowledge that you were an out and about person who does a little of everything.

i vote for the latter. Hope the skirt fits.

Barbara

[ColleenCD]

Hi Bree,

I've driven by this place many times, never with the opportunity to venture inside. They've been around for several years, and since your anonymous stranger provided this recommendation, it may be worth a call at least to find out if you want their services. But from your profile Bree, you look fantastic, and since your already out and about, your confidence is plenty strong. The tipster is certainly who he says he is, probably has seen more CD's in that Goodwill than students in school. But that doesn't mean you aren't pretty and passing when out. You be you.

Big hugs,

Colleen

[Chickhe]

It could be taken the wrong way,... I mean, most people would be offended if someone told them to go get a haircut... anyhow... maybe what he saw was someone who looked serious enough, but thought you could do better... I would not worry about the being read part...it takes one to know one basically.

[Julie Martin]

Bree, I study physiognomy a lot. I love to draw and paint. I don't want to be mean or anything, but there are very few CDs who can pass fully as women, under close scrutiny. There are many subtle gender cues (brow, chin, face width, distance between various points on the face, neck width, shoulder size, etc), outside of the more obvious gender cues such as hair length and style, the presence of breasts, and makeup. This is why many TSs who wish to live as women full time and not be read, opt for FFS on top of the effect of the feminizing hormones.

A GM might have a chance passing fully at all angles if he has a small stature, small hands and feet, small neck and shoulders, and is very young, and he doesn't have a classic male forehead or chin.

Still, most people do not look closely at passers-by, providing there is nothing in their peripheral view that raises flags, and judging by your avatar, you don't raise any. You look very nice.

For sure on all of the above! Bree, you look very good, but passing under CLOSE SCRUTINY except for those people described in ReineD's post is unlikely. Passing in brief casual contact can be done even if you're 6' tall if you mask as many male cues as possible by how you dress, have the mannerisms down, and possibly a female sounding voice if you speak with SA's in stores. If you pay careful attention to detail in your presentation and look like a woman at first glance, which you do, sometimes you'll pull it of, sometimes not, and we never really know for sure. My attitude is..it's all in my head. If they call me ma'am and interact with me as if I was a woman, I feel like one! They may or may not have read me, but the experience is the same! Have fun. You look great.

[Marleena]

Bree If I'm going to get read I prefer an expert as cool as you found (or found you). The teenage group of giggling female "experts" is not so much fun.

[Karren H]

I don't know.... Spin it what ever way that makes you feel good but to me that's kind of like a plastic surgeon's assistant coming up to you out of the blue and saying "I know someone who can fix that"??

[MandyGG]

Bree,

Since I am married to a CD and not one myself, it is hard to judge or comment on these posts. I always fear that you don't really want to hear what I have to say. So, usually, I just read and move on. However, there is something about YOU that always stands out in a positive light. You always come across as a genuinely beautiful person. Please do not take offense to someone offering help. I am sure he saw what we all see here, someone living life to the fullest with such a positive outlook and who almost down right GLOWS! I can almost guarantee that he was trying to be helpful, not hurtful.

[Sallee]

I agree it is hard to fool all the people all the time. If no one is paying close attention or cares it is a lot easier to fool them.

[marny]

It sounds to me like a very subtle nice gesture.

[Stephenie S]

I agree. What a nice way to offer some help.

S

[Cheryl T]

At least he was being helpful...he could have just made a rude comment and walked away.
I think it was a nice gesture.

But then again, I'm a bra cup half full kinda gal....LOL.

[paulinescotlandcd]

I just think that was simply a nice gesture, read or not.

[Violetgray]

Bree, I study physiognomy a lot. I love to draw and paint. I don't want to be mean or anything, but there are very few CDs who can pass fully as women, under close scrutiny.

I am OFFENDED! You stop being realistic right this instant!

[kimdl93]

It was a chance encounter, but it could yeild some real dividends. Any of us can benefit from expereineced help with our presentation. Hope you can give it a try!

[Angie G]

You look nice and girly in your avatar Bree. Maybe he did know what to look for.
Angie

[Sarah Doepner]

Well I'm jealous! I rarely get out and have the chance to get read by experts or anyone.

[Lorileah]

I just spent 30 minutes in front of the mirror wondering exactly what gives me away. Wow, you mean when you see a 6'4" 190 pound 40 inch chest and even wider shoulders, no rear, you don't think he...I am sorry "she" is a passable CD? I am disillusioned at best and here I thought everyone thought I was with the final four women's basketball teams here in Denver.

It was I am sure an innocent gesture on his part, he evidently liked the job enough to send you there. You took it well but I know many more here would have burst into tears or a rage. I have not been to Hana's. No need, as I have the best makeover artists here in Denver at my beck and call (with 4 weeks advance notice ). There are probably many more but there are three major salons who do makeovers here. Each has a signature look. You have to decide what you like and then go there. Caveat, you get what you pay for so be aware of that. I have not talked to anyone who has used Hana, so I can't recommend nor dissuade you. You want to see make-up? Go to Coronation this weekend. The best (and worst) in Denver.

Wow Prada. I have to shop Goodwill more

[suchacutie]

It was a bit forward to take it upon himself to communicate in that way. Reine is so right when she talks about the male vs. female "clues" we send out from our presentations. If we flood those we meet with "female" clues, we "pass" at that point. The male clues are there and it's just a question of putting enough of the feminine clues out there that no one is sure enough about the masculine clues that are there as well.

Now, your "friend" had an advantage being in Goodwill. If you had been in Macy's there probably would not have been a note. I'm sure it was the Goodwill environment that pushed the "male" clues to the fore.

As everyone has said, confidence can push the feminine clues out there faster, but it takes a very strong set of feminine clues to make accept in all circumstances.

I also think you look terrific. We can all look better, so having more information about looking better is never bad

tina

[Linda Stockings]

Good afternoon, ladies,
I think I agree with most everyone here, especially that Bree looks fantastic. I sure wish I could still carry a look like that. I was thinking I would ask for opinions about the times that I have passed, and not passed, describe how I was dressed, my attitude, confidence level, etc., and see what you all might have to advise. But not today - got to get back to work. However, one short story where the joke was all on me. I had just started my job here (1989). Every morning I rode up the elevator with one of the female security guards. I'm 5'9", 150 pounds, been crossdressing since I was about age 5, I think. I had seen several CDers in my time (I think), and felt I could recognize them. Oh how I wish I had gone out more when I was young! I used to get mistaken for a girl when I was in guy mode! NUTS! Anyway, I thought I had this guard figured out to be a fairly pretty crossdresser. Each day, I would notice something that would convince me even more. I felt so much like a total jack*** when oneday I noticed beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was pregnant, and many of the women were throwing her a baby shower. My point? I think every one of these ladies on this forum is correct, almost 100%, almost 100% of the time. The other times? Well, it's kind of like passing when you're out dressed pretty, sometimes everything works great, but sometimes there may be something about how high your heels are that you wore to the mall...........or those supersheer stockings with those perfect sandals.......

[Paulette]

I believe that passing is so over rated and causes so many of the girls on this forum to stay at home. I always dress age appropriate and for the location(s) I will be going too. I might get noticed but no one has ever started screaming there a man dressed as a girl. If I pass at 10 feet great, and blend at 5 feet also great, anything closer I win some and lose some but still and all I am out in the public living life. I have been to many public gatherings concerts, festivals (not GLBT orientated) movie theaters and of course restaurants and clubs and have never had a problem or a negative experience. I always carry myself as a lady and as such get treated the same back. Someone offering their assistance is to be cherished not chastised.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

You look pretty darn good Bree, so take the compliment and run in those heels with it.