Question for all of you in the closet

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The reason Jess its a bit more than just stirring the pot, is the way you asked an interesting question..

You said..
"What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine? (and others like me)"
This question stood out to me ..other than the simple answer, which is EVERYTHING, it has a self congratulation built in to it that is impossible to miss..

It seems a valid, supportive and friendly question until you insert yourself into it..

My question is simply..

For those of you in the closet, unwilling to go out...if that is one of your goals, what are things that can do to get there?

[Badtranny]

They would be right in my opinion we are less of a man when we dress as women for whatever reason we dress.

Well this is as good a place as any to jump in. I was going to stay out of this one because it's clearly a CD issue, but the above quoted comment sparked an interest.

I'm one of those that doesn't think the average CD has any reason to come "out" at all. Let's face it, many CD's are doing it for a sexual thrill so coming out is tantamount to announcing how you get your jollies. Frankly, somebody's masturbation ritual is none of my business and I don't want to live in a world where people aren't allowed that most basic sense of privacy. HOWEVER, there is a distinct difference between coming out publicly and coming out to yourself. I say stuff like this alot and I realize it might sound like new age silliness to some but I want to make clear the difference in being closeted and simply being private.

The above quote illustrates something that I believe to be endemic among CD's. They believe they are indeed LESS than a man, that who they are is shameful at best and perverted at worst. They are ashamed of who they are and what they are compelled to do. The whole idea of coming out is as laughable as it is terrifying. Like they would actually admit their shameful deeds to real people. People they know would be horrified at the deep dark secret, the hoax of a relationship with someone they thought they knew, and people they don't know would surely be disgusted at the very site of "it", the grotesque amalgam of a man and a woman. Even those that venture out would only do so as long as they feel confident that their identity is safely hidden under the wig and makeup.

What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are. This self hate is far more dangerous to themselves AND the community than being closeted could ever be. I don't want these people to come "out" physically, I want them to come out of their own prison. To come out of that place that contains the guilt for doing nothing but wearing clothes, or for fantasizing. There are many things about one's sexuality that are worth keeping private, or among like minded friends, but sexuality should never be considered shameful. The fact is as long as there is shame, then coming out to ANYONE is rendered impossible. Your own shame and distaste will actually influence your presentation of the material. People will sense your shame and try to "help" you instead of support you. On the other hand, people will sense your pride and joy and they will accept if not support. Everybody loves a good time and they love spending time with happy and contented people. After all, we invented the word eccentric for the sole purpose of describing crazy people that we like.

No, coming out is not for the timid. It is reserved for those who have truly come to terms with who they are and have learned to find happiness in it. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CD to remain closeted, my only wish is they are able to come to a spiritual place where they can freely make that choice, rather than let fear and shame decide for them.

[Foxglove]

Excellent post, Melissa! It shows a lot of understanding. Lots of us know a lot about shame. We need to deal with that before we're ready to deal with the public. And I know what you mean by "coming out to yourself". That's something I couldn't do for a long time.

Well done!

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Kaz]

Melissa,

I have always enjoyed your posts and the way you think and I know we have had our run-ins previously (you won't remember), but we are on the same page... maybe with slightly different fonts...?

My take on a lot of this is that when someone has taken the transition/TS thing on board and has lived it, they believe that if they can do it everyone else can. And then if someone doesn't it is because they lack something... call it courage, willpower, motivation, whatever... life is more complex and when others are involved the decisions more complicated...

I don't buy this one size fits all mentality that sits well those who feel that they pioneered their way. I applaud all of you who have taken a stance and done what you have done 'for the cause'.. th troiuble is that you didn't do it for any 'cause'; you did it for your own needs and they sat within your own personal context. Not everyone's contexts are the same and I just think that people should respect this.

I am NEVER going to tell anyone how they should live their lives... history is full of these people and the damage they have inflicted.

I am who I am in my own context... I do not sit in a box categorised by someone who feels the right to preach to others... and Melissa... I am not saying this is you, because I know you better and love you to bits! But rhetoric in a text-based context does lack the 'human' factor - 'body language'!

[AllieSF]

Great post Melissa. I see 3 types of coming out scenarios. One is as Melissa said, coming out to yourself and just accepting what you are doing and who you are and not suffering from it, but rather trying to figure out how to incorporate that part of you into your more or less everyday life. Everyone should strive for this goal as it will make a lot of lives happier and easier to deal with for the individual and for those around them. The second coming out is more of a getting out of the house into the real world. That takes self confidence and some courage, dressing skills optional. This one is not for everyone since there are so many valid reasons for one to stay within the confines of their walled safe zone. That life can be very fulfilling and satisfying, and there should be no "You just have to go out" pressure from anyone, unless a person asks for help in building up the courage and self confidence needed to step out the door. The last coming out is the revealing to others, family, friends, work companions and acquaintances of this special life and feelings that we have. This is a very tricky and potentially very risky step for many people. This, like stepping out of the house, is the decision of each individual and should not be subject to the peer pressure from others who have taken this step.

I personally have been out to myself and out of the house since the very beginning about 5 years ago and am loving every minute of it. I am not out to friends, family nor acquaintances because as of this moment there is no justifiable reason or need to know. There would be more negative results than positive ones for me, so I am happy to live with those minor inconveniences for now. What happens in the future really depends on how I feel about it then, whether I eventually get caught and where this late in life journey may take me.

To reinforce the point that I think Jess is trying to make, if you want to go out in any on the three descriptions above, please do everything you can do to "Just Do It"! The experience can be well worth it.

For those of us who have been around this site for awhile, this topic, just like the famous pantie threads continue to pop up on a regular basis with all the same answers, no matter how the questions may be posed. Jess, you yourself have two other threads that address this topic from different directions. The first one addressed the "BS" reasons why people do not go out. I try to put my two cents in when I can, which really boil down to help those that want to go out and try not to pressure those who have not yet reached that decision point for whatever reason.

[Badtranny]

Excellent post, Melissa! It shows a lot of understanding. Lots of us know a lot about shame. We need to deal with that before we're ready to deal with the public. And I know what you mean by "coming out to yourself". That's something I couldn't do for a long time.

I only understand because I lived it myself for too many years. My own shame about my sexuality not only kept me from being happy, but also my first wife who wasted her 20's with a closet queen and never understood why our relationship lacked passion. She finally left me for another man and I was still not brave enough to face my truth even though I KNEW who I was. My cowardice is unforgivable. I know about fear and in fact moved four hours north to the Bay Area for the sole purpose of starting a new life. I wasn't strong enough to do what I had to do in that little redneck town, even though they all know now. I don't have to live there anymore. Finally accepting that I was gay opened the door to real personal growth and I finally was able to see (after a couple of years) that being gay was NOT my problem, I was in fact TS and the feelings I spent a lifetime ignoring, were going to be acknowledged one way or another.

The lesson I learned is; Self acceptance is not optional. With acceptance comes pride, and with pride comes confidence, and with confidence comes power. Fear and shame are an unholy alliance and together they will beget weakness, and it is that weakness that brings hate from everyone including yourself.

[docrobbysherry]

Well this is as good a place as any to jump in. I was going to stay out of this one because it's clearly a CD issue, but the above quoted comment sparked an interest.

I'm one of those that doesn't think the average CD has any reason to come "out" at all. Let's face it, many CD's are doing it for a sexual thrill so coming out is tantamount to announcing how you get your jollies. Frankly, somebody's masturbation ritual is none of my business and I don't want to live in a world where people aren't allowed that most basic sense of privacy. HOWEVER, there is a distinct difference between coming out publicly and coming out to yourself. I say stuff like this alot and I realize it might sound like new age silliness to some but I want to make clear the difference in being closeted and simply being private.

The above quote illustrates something that I believe to be endemic among CD's. They believe they are indeed LESS than a man, that who they are is shameful at best and perverted at worst. They are ashamed of who they are and what they are compelled to do. The whole idea of coming out is as laughable as it is terrifying. Like they would actually admit their shameful deeds to real people. People they know would be horrified at the deep dark secret, the hoax of a relationship with someone they thought they knew, and people they don't know would surely be disgusted at the very site of "it", the grotesque amalgam of a man and a woman. Even those that venture out would only do so as long as they feel confident that their identity is safely hidden under the wig and makeup.

What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are. This self hate is far more dangerous to themselves AND the community than being closeted could ever be. I don't want these people to come "out" physically, I want them to come out of their own prison. To come out of that place that contains the guilt for doing nothing but wearing clothes, or for fantasizing. There are many things about one's sexuality that are worth keeping private, or among like minded friends, but sexuality should never be considered shameful. The fact is as long as there is shame, then coming out to ANYONE is rendered impossible. Your own shame and distaste will actually influence your presentation of the material. People will sense your shame and try to "help" you instead of support you. On the other hand, people will sense your pride and joy and they will accept if not support. Everybody loves a good time and they love spending time with happy and contented people. After all, we invented the word eccentric for the sole purpose of describing crazy people that we like.

No, coming out is not for the timid. It is reserved for those who have truly come to terms with who they are and have learned to find happiness in it. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CD to remain closeted, my only wish is they are able to come to a spiritual place where they can freely make that choice, rather than let fear and shame decide for them.

While the tread is about "Going out" and not "Coming out", Melissa, you've nailed ME with your post!

The thing I fear most about my dressing, is that I'll NEVER accept it! Much less expect family and friends to! I fear they would NOT! Especially if told the entire, dirty story!

Strangers? Who cares! I don't fear them! If they think I'm a perv, well, so what? Maybe they're rite!?

[busker]

Well this is as good a place as any to jump in. I was going to stay out of this one because it's clearly a CD issue, but the above quoted comment sparked an interest.

I'm one of those that doesn't think the average CD has any reason to come "out" at all. Let's face it, many CD's are doing it for a sexual thrill so coming out is tantamount to announcing how you get your jollies. Frankly, somebody's masturbation ritual is none of my business and I don't want to live in a world where people aren't allowed that most basic sense of privacy. HOWEVER, there is a distinct difference between coming out publicly and coming out to yourself. I say stuff like this alot and I realize it might sound like new age silliness to some but I want to[SIZE="4"] make clear the difference in being closeted and simply being private.[/SIZE]

The above quote illustrates something that I believe to be endemic among CD's. They believe they are indeed LESS than a man, that who they are is shameful at best and perverted at worst. They are ashamed of who they are and what they are compelled to do. The whole idea of coming out is as laughable as it is terrifying. Like they would actually admit their shameful deeds to real people. People they know would be horrified at the deep dark secret, the hoax of a relationship with someone they thought they knew, and people they don't know would surely be disgusted at the very site of "it", the grotesque amalgam of a man and a woman. Even those that venture out would only do so as long as they feel confident that their identity is safely hidden under the wig and makeup.

What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are. This self hate is far more dangerous to themselves AND the community than being closeted could ever be. I don't want these people to come "out" physically, I want them to come out of their own prison. To come out of that place that contains the guilt for doing nothing but wearing clothes, or for fantasizing. There are many things about one's sexuality that are worth keeping private, or among like minded friends, but sexuality should never be considered shameful. The fact is as long as there is shame, then coming out to ANYONE is rendered impossible. Your own shame and distaste will actually influence your presentation of the material. People will sense your shame and try to "help" you instead of support you. On the other hand, people will sense your pride and joy and they will accept if not support. Everybody loves a good time and they love spending time with happy and contented people. After all, we invented the word eccentric for the sole purpose of describing crazy people that we like.

No, coming out is not for the timid. It is reserved for those who have truly come to terms with who they are and have learned to find happiness in it. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CD to remain closeted, my only wish is they are able to come to a spiritual place where they can freely make that choice, rather than let fear and shame decide for them.

Melissa,
This is what I have been thinking about recently after Jess posted her closet topic. the closet for me is simply dressing in the privacy of my own home, I accept myself, and have no need to wander out in public totally en femme. The clothing simply adds to what I feel inside, but I still feel the same even if I couldn't dress, which I think is what a lot of people here miss as an important point. A garter belt doesn't make anyone feminine.
As the Brits say -FULL MARKS--.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Melissa, great post, eally well thought out. I don't agree wit hit all, though. I just don't have any shame about this part of my life- it is me, it took a long long time for me just tbut so what is how I look at it now. But it is [I]my[I] life, and I choose to share it with only those whom I want to know. My local CD group here, a very good friend on this board, my wife (and anyone she has told, but I'll live with that), are really the only people I care to tell about this. I totally agree with what you initially said that there is no point for a CD to tell most people, even though this is more than a sexual thing for me. So, I guess in a long, round about way, I'm saying i agree with you but for different reasons.

[Contessa]

Sherry I am replying to only you. I only want you to think about your fears if you have them. You are always a crossdresser no matter what. Even in drab you are Sherry, but you're hiding behind a mask. I don't see you as homely, remember what I said " Every female is beautiful but not all of them are pretty. Sure you know what you look like but I don't. Find the time to do the makeup and practice will make you better at it. When you feel good about it then go out. The makeup will make you look more feminine, not completely feminine. I don't look feminine but I feel it I walk like it. I have a femme watch,and bracelets, rings and I can smile a lot. Talking I do have a feminine voice but I just whisper. Always smile that is what most GG's do when they notice me. A smile not a grin. You may just need to change your dress for going out and dress younger when at home. My male self is almost 60 but I(Contessa) is 46. So I try to dress that way. Please think about what I am saying then make a change. If you want to go out then what you have been doing isn't working and you will have to change something to make that happen. Be happy and feel sexy anywhere even in Mickey D's.

Love ya still(just not sexually)
Tess

[ReineD]

Well, if we're taking votes on the posts that best encapsulate the truth, my vote is with both Melissa and Allie:

What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are.

I see 3 types of coming out scenarios. One is as Melissa said, coming out to yourself and just accepting what you are doing and who you are and not suffering from it, but rather trying to figure out how to incorporate that part of you into your more or less everyday life. Everyone should strive for this goal as it will make a lot of lives happier and easier to deal with for the individual and for those around them. The second coming out is more of a getting out of the house into the real world. That takes self confidence and some courage, dressing skills optional. This one is not for everyone since there are so many valid reasons for one to stay within the confines of their walled safe zone. That life can be very fulfilling and satisfying, and there should be no "You just have to go out" pressure from anyone, unless a person asks for help in building up the courage and self confidence needed to step out the door. The last coming out is the revealing to others, family, friends, work companions and acquaintances of this special life and feelings that we have. This is a very tricky and potentially very risky step for many people. This, like stepping out of the house, is the decision of each individual and should not be subject to the peer pressure from others who have taken this step.

Melissa speaks of a CDer who is not happy with her level of outedness and I agree the sooner such a CDer is true to who she is, the better.

Allie agrees, but she also mentions individuals who are true to who they are even when their outedness needs are not as great or as strong as people who do seek either part or full-time public interaction with others.

It can't be said enough: not everyone here has the same needs. It is true some closeted people are in denial or they are fearful (and fundamentally I think such people know it), but others simply are not and these people should not be made to feel as if they are deficient somehow for not having the same needs as others.

[larry]

Well--TaTaTA --Aren't you the high and mighty. Excuuuse me if I am not so lucky..

[Marleena]

Personally, I think it depends on how much you are willing to risk.

Yes it is a risk coming out, some people don't need or want to as we've seen here. From what I've seen Jess is an exception as she says she has had no issues coming out to anybody.

Most people risk alienation and job, marriage, loved ones, etc. as an act of "coming out". However.... I highly recommend that all MTF's come out to themselves and then decide what is best for them.

[Julogden]

Being bluntly honest, your posting smacks somewhat of someone who is feeling just a bit superior just because they're out (unfortunately, a not-uncommon attitude among those who are out). Please don't make the mistake of thinking that just because something works for you that it will work for everyone.

No two people have the exact same situation and no two people have the same comfort level or need to go out in public. If you've found a way to live that's working for you, that's great, I'm happy for you, but don't let your personal situation make you think that everyone wants or needs to do what you're doing. Also, keep in mind that some who do want or need that can have very valid reasons that prevent them from being more out. Postings like yours, while intended to be encouraging (I'm assuming) can also be distressing or frustrating to those who would like to do what you're doing but can't due to problems with an unaccepting spouse or other familial concerns.

And some people are quite comfortable in the closet, and that's a valid choice as long as they're truly happy that way.

Carol

[sometimes_miss]

Not going to 'beat you up'. What's different is that we are different people, and our relatives and friends are different people. Some are ok with crossdressers/TG folk, others aren't. It's as simple as that. Neither my mom or my sister are even remotely ok with it. I've touched on the subject with some friends and got a very cold response. And, I'm not willing to become the target for anyone who wants to show the world that he's 'tougher than the sissy', and decides to use me as the example. I have no desire to wind up fighting my way through life just because someone else thinks it might be a good idea to show that we are just as tough as any other man.
You live your life, and I'll live mine.

[docrobbysherry]

Sherry I am replying to only you. I only want you to think about your fears if you have them. You are always a crossdresser no matter what. Even in drab you are Sherry, but you're hiding behind a mask. I don't see you as homely, remember what I said " Every female is beautiful but not all of them are pretty. Sure you know what you look like but I don't. Find the time to do the makeup and practice will make you better at it. When you feel good about it then go out. The makeup will make you look more feminine, not completely feminine. I don't look feminine but I feel it I walk like it. I have a femme watch,and bracelets, rings and I can smile a lot. Talking I do have a feminine voice but I just whisper. Always smile that is what most GG's do when they notice me. A smile not a grin. You may just need to change your dress for going out and dress younger when at home. My male self is almost 60 but I(Contessa) is 46. So I try to dress that way. Please think about what I am saying then make a change. If you want to go out then what you have been doing isn't working and you will have to change something to make that happen. Be happy and feel sexy anywhere even in Mickey D's.

Love ya still(just not sexually)
Tess

Tess, I meant what I said. That I'm GLAD that u enjoy going out dressed. I can tell u enjoy expressing your fem self out there! But, I'm NOT u!

I'm most certainly NOT Sherry in drab! Or, dressed to blend so I can out among the Muggles, either! To put it in proper prospective for u, Jess, or ANY OTHER CD that goes out dressed. Try going out in vanilla public dressed. But, LEAVE OFF YOUR WIGS AND MAKEUP AND FORMS! See how u like that!? Well, that's how I ALWAYS FEEL when I'm out dressed to blend!

[JessHaust]

Tess, I meant what I said. That I'm GLAD that u enjoy going out dressed. I can tell u enjoy expressing your fem self out there! But, I'm NOT u!

I'm most certainly NOT Sherry in drab! Or, dressed to blend so I can out among the Muggles, either! To put it in proper prospective for u, Jess, or ANY OTHER CD that goes out dressed. Try going out in vanilla public dressed. But, LEAVE OFF YOUR WIGS AND MAKEUP AND FORMS! See how u like that!? Well, that's how I ALWAYS FEEL when I'm out dressed to blend!

Thats a little like asking us to go out en drab with a shirt and no pants, just underwear and socks! I don't see how it is relevant.

[Contessa]

Ok Sherry

I believe you you've convinced me. No hard feelings. Like I said still love ya.

Tess

[Foxglove]

I'm most certainly NOT Sherry in drab! Or, dressed to blend so I can out among the Muggles, either! To put it in proper prospective for u, Jess, or ANY OTHER CD that goes out dressed. Try going out in vanilla public dressed. But, LEAVE OFF YOUR WIGS AND MAKEUP AND FORMS! See how u like that!? Well, that's how I ALWAYS FEEL when I'm out dressed to blend!

Thats a little like asking us to go out en drab with a shirt and no pants, just underwear and socks! I don't see how it is relevant.

Yes, that's OK, Jess. Go out in drab without a shirt or pants. Or go out dressed without your wig, make-up or forms. Either way, you'll probably feel a bit conspicuous and uncomfortable. That's the point Sherry was making, and that's the relevance.

[JessHaust]

OK, well, I didn't get beatup too badly on this one!
I did get called Chickenshit, but that's OK, what's one girls opinion out of almost 100?
So let's wrap this one up and move on.

Thanks for all the answers, it shows me that there are some very legitimate concerns.
Here's what I got from this:

If your wife has expressed her wishes for you not to dress, or dress around her, I certainly would comply. I love my wife and would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. Anita, we have a similar relationship with our wives.

There are indeed places in this world where attitudes have not yet progressed to the point of accepting us. Canada seem to be one, although the few times I have been there in drab everyone was very friendly, so they are good people, just maybe not CD aware enough yet. Ireland, Annabelle, we have had this conversation before and I'm sorry to drag it up again. Yes, I would be reluctant to dress in Ireland anywhere except maybe Dublin. We had a girl here post that there was a CD friendly Club there somewhere, but I've been to the towns and villages of central Ireland, and even though they are also very kind people, probably not if I had on a dress.

Many of you are just private people and I can respect that, I bet Cross dressing is not the only thing you are private about. I have friends that I drive crazy simply because I talk to everyone, stranger or not, and they simply can't stand it. It's a personality thing and I understand.

Jobs! Yes this is a real tough one. There are very few job situations that could handle cross dressing. Theater and the arts are one, but my list gets short after that. So until you become independantly wealthy, this is as good an excuse as the come.
Me, I'm self employed and work from home. Do my customers know? No, but most would not care as long as I get their computer working!

For those who say they simply don't want to leave the house, OK, that's certainly your choice. I question your honesty with yourself, but can't argue with the logic. If you really have never had any desire to go out into the real world and see what it's like to express your true self, then you are good, no argument from me. It's always most important to do what you feel and not what others think or say.

So for the rest of the answers, OK yes maybe your family and friends will think you are a freak, or pervert as one posted said. But I think you give them too little credit. No I don't know them and Yes there will certainly be some who disapprove, but I just want you to think about the ones will, and some will, most likely far more than you are willing to admit.

So what is my point of stirring up the pot? Is it because I feel superior as some have suggested? No girls, I'm not superior than anyone here, I'm just like you all. I do feel lucky though.

I think that that some of you have read between the lines, the girl who got it the closest was ConnieD, she has seen the change of society and tells us about it. She knows that as long as we stay hidden from the public eye, we will never get the respect that we desire. The more of us who got out there, hold out pretty heads up high and show the world that we are real, normal, self confident and harmless people, the more society will accept us.

Thanks for all the answers

[busker]

OK, well, I didn't get beatup too badly on this one!
I did get called Chickenshit, but that's OK, what's one girls opinion out of almost 100?
So let's wrap this one up and move on.

Thanks for all the answers, it shows me that there are some very legitimate concerns.
Here's what I got from this:

If your wife has expressed her wishes for you not to dress, or dress around her, I certainly would comply. I love my wife and would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. Anita, we have a similar relationship with our wives.

There are indeed places in this world where attitudes have not yet progressed to the point of accepting us. Canada seem to be one, although the few times I have been there in drab everyone was very friendly, so they are good people, just maybe not CD aware enough yet. Ireland, Annabelle, we have had this conversation before and I'm sorry to drag it up again. Yes, I would be reluctant to dress in Ireland anywhere except maybe Dublin. We had a girl here post that there was a CD friendly Club there somewhere, but I've been to the towns and villages of central Ireland, and even though they are also very kind people, probably not if I had on a dress.

Many of you are just private people and I can respect that, I bet Cross dressing is not the only thing you are private about. I have friends that I drive crazy simply because I talk to everyone, stranger or not, and they simply can't stand it. It's a personality thing and I understand.

Jobs! Yes this is a real tough one. There are very few job situations that could handle cross dressing. Theater and the arts are one, but my list gets short after that. So until you become independantly wealthy, this is as good an excuse as the come.
Me, I'm self employed and work from home. Do my customers know? No, but most would not care as long as I get their computer working!

For those who say they simply don't want to leave the house, OK, that's certainly your choice. I question your honesty with yourself, but can't argue with the logic. If you really have never had any desire to go out into the real world and see what it's like to express your true self, then you are good, no argument from me. It's always most important to do what you feel and not what others think or say.

So for the rest of the answers, OK yes maybe your family and friends will think you are a freak, or pervert as one posted said. But I think you give them too little credit. No I don't know them and Yes there will certainly be some who disapprove, but I just want you to think about the ones will, and some will, most likely far more than you are willing to admit.

So what is my point of stirring up the pot? Is it because I feel superior as some have suggested? No girls, I'm not superior than anyone here, I'm just like you all. I do feel lucky though.

I think that that some of you have read between the lines, the girl who got it the closest was ConnieD, she has seen the change of society and tells us about it. She knows that as long as we stay hidden from the public eye, we will never get the respect that we desire. The more of us who got out there, hold out pretty heads up high and show the world that we are real, normal, self confident and harmless people, [SIZE="6"]the more society will accept us[/SIZE].

Thanks for all the answers

Jess, what's that old saying; "if wishes were wings, pigs could fly" or some such. To me, it is just madness to think that crossdressing will be an acceptable public activity. You are obviously intelligent but sometimes I think that statements such as you ahve made come from somewhere else other than intelligent thought.--That is not a bash, by the way. It is your HOPEFULLNESS that I find faulty, in the same way that you find some people's reasons faulty. There is simply a lack of acceptance there--and I mean acceptance that the general public, despite all the stuff we read on the forum, is going to just take us under their wings. We've just had a presidential candidate whose ideas about women belong to the 14th century. we've got another who thinks corporations are people--do corporations crossdress?
We are still dealing with and debating that even though women are free and equal, still do not have control over their lives and reproductive choices. They are in many ways still second class citizens. They are derided by the males who frankly rule the world. How on earth could you possibly believe that the world will somehow embrace crossdressers? For a great proportion of the nation, we are an abomination, doomed to the firey place for all eternity. I wonder sometimes if people are so caught up in the pink fog, that they have lost sight of any reality in their lives? We can't even figure out how and why we got to this place, and many here just use the popeye excuse as something valid to explain who and what they are. Would the general populace take that for a reason to accept us? No, they damned sure would't. Most SOs wouldn't accept it. There's a long way to go before we sleep, and it will be filled with nightmares for many.
This is not, I repeat, NOT , a rant against you, Jess, but a reply using your comment as a springboard.
congratulations on your personal success.

[ReineD]

I did get called Chickenshit, but that's OK, what's one girls opinion out of almost 100?

No. She used the word as a description of her own reasons for not moving forward. Had she said this in reference to you, I would have deleted it since this would have violated our rules.

For those who say they simply don't want to leave the house, OK, that's certainly your choice. I question your honesty with yourself, but can't argue with the logic. If you really have never had any desire to go out into the real world and see what it's like to express your true self, then you are good, no argument from me. It's always most important to do what you feel and not what others think or say. ... as long as we stay hidden from the public eye, we will never get the respect that we desire. The more of us who got out there, hold out pretty heads up high and show the world that we are real, normal, self confident and harmless people, the more society will accept us.

Can't you see that you are practicing your own version of ethnocentricism? Even though you're willing to acknowledge there are others who feel differently than you, you still judge them based on what YOU want for yourself and you fundamentally believe they must want the same things. You doubt they are telling you their truths. Why is it so hard to understand there is a spectrum of gender diversity and individual needs once people weigh their priorities, and that some people within the spectrum are at their end points no matter where those are, while others are, in fact, on their journeys just like you?

[JessHaust]

Well, you are combining two different paragraphs. In the first, I'm simple expressing my skeptisim.
The second has nothing to do with my opinion or desires, it's a fact. If women had never stood up for the right to vote, if Rosa Parks had not taken that seat, if the Mattachine Society had not started, then society would still treat women, blacks, and gays with the same disrespect that they always had. Sure there were plenty in each of those groups who did not want the spotlight turns on them, and they did nothing to forward the cause, but they still benefit now from those who did. We should be no different.

[ReineD]

Achieving basic human rights and racial and gender equality are noble pursuits. Likewise, every CDer who wants to interact with others as her femme self and who wants to be publicly respected for who she is, would help advance her cause if she put herself out there as you suggest.

But separate from this is a person's process of identifying who they are and what they want. You are dismissing the people who do not feel constrained, who are satisfied with their gender expression as it is, and who have no interest in presenting as a woman publicly. These are people whose gender identifications, needs, and expressions are different than your own. I get the impression you are telling them they are in denial about what they want, when they've already weighed their priorities and have made their decisions. Your priority is to go out, as is my SO's (we go out together often), and that's great! But not everyone feels the same way and they are not all in denial or fearful.

[sometimes_miss]

We should be no different.

O.K.. I'm a spy. I do all my work 'undercover' and I support my 'sisters' covertly. So there. Stop trying to make people feel bad just because we don't want a target on our backs. Some of us have had enough of that for one life. If you want to live in blissful ignorance about what goes on behind your back, feel free. I wholly support your bravery for being out and taking the heat, whatever that might be. But insisting that others behave the way you want them to simply doesn't fly.