Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: Looking back...ignoring the data

  1. #1
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,640

    Looking back...ignoring the data

    There have been alot of questioning posts lately...

    i think this can be about breaking the ice, and folks that lurk here in the ts section, seeing some very good and courageous people sharing their story, and deciding to jump in with their story...anyway...

    it made me think of all the signs i ignored over the years. Can you remember things you tucked away..for example, in my college years, i was a librarian.. i recall finding Jan Morris' book Conundrum...she was a pioneer transitioner...and i was literally obsessed with ONE passage about her getting in a cab and experiencing a guy calling her "luv" for the first time...in that moment to me, she was a woman...it wasn't about dressing, it wasn't about emulating...it was being to me...and i would go up and read that passage all the time!!! over and over!!! how strange...and it was especially strange because it didn't click with me that i was just like her...

    I also recall in mid 90's i found lyn conway's ts women's success page and her ffs page... i became obsessed (and this is when i developed my debilitating (heh) internet addiction!!!) with those pages... i read and reread them... and i still didnt connect the dots!!! i figured i was just into transsexuals..duh!!!!!!!!...i started thinking of getting a nose job from these ffs surgeons...i viewed it as a CD fantasy... could i do it and nobody notice? how long would it take? could i pass better? etcetc...but never...I'm TS...btw...i noticed at the time there was broken link after broken link...the Kate rule demonstrated in full effect..so many of them wanted to be known, then didn't want to be known!!..

    in the early 2000's i was making $$ and i traveled and dressed often...and i recall driving around by myself (which i did for almost 20yrs!) and i kept thinking of how I desperately wished i could talk to people, go to work "this way", i fantasized of renting an apartment and "living there" as a woman... AND STILL I DID NOT CONNECT THE DOTS!!!

    anyway....it may help you if you are questioning to think back and try to mine those memories for "data" that can build your confidence that you are thinking straight...

  2. #2
    HW change required Andie Elisabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Former Austria-Hungary
    Posts
    134
    Ok, when I'll be able to shut my wide open silenced mouth I'll write about my ignoring data.
    "It'll be just like old times, except...different" -- Ezri Dax

  3. #3
    Member Stephanie-L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,354
    I too have had a few Aha moments once I came to accept my trans-ness. The whole prefering girls company to boys at a young age, developing feminine hobbies and skills, again at a young age, total lack of intrest in most "boys" activities (sports, etc) and of course the early experimentation with crossdressing, all seem much more logical now.......Stephanie

  4. #4
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    697
    Thanks for this, Kaitlyn...it's hard to know what the dots are during that period when you're supposed to be connecting them but just can't seem to...in my world (academia) data rules, but so much data is bogus...that is, you can reconstruct a situation or a life and see the data points you want to see while ignoring other data points that might lead to different conclusions, or different causes...I'm not saying that to disagree with you. Certainly TS is not your regular tendency or trait, such as "all those times when I felt so wonderful in the woods as a kid, I didn't get it that I should be a forestry major." TS is much more serious, more powerful, more about who you are than speculation about various smaller roads not taken.

    It all makes me wonder how many Jan Morris books and other related moments add up to certainty that one should have known of one's transgenderedness...taking those data points and weighing them against the rest -- the time spent at baseball games, the love of cars with big engines, the enjoyment of going out drinking with the guys....in a life lived as a male, there would have been many more macho data points than girly ones, even for someone who was heavily transgendered while not getting it about him/herself...

    I remain confused, in a dress. Your friend,

    elizabethamy

  5. #5
    HW change required Andie Elisabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Former Austria-Hungary
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by elizabethamy View Post
    It all makes me wonder how many Jan Morris books and other related moments add up to certainty that one should have known of one's transgenderedness...taking those data points and weighing them against the rest -- the time spent at baseball games, the love of cars with big engines, the enjoyment of going out drinking with the guys....in a life lived as a male, there would have been many more macho data points than girly ones, even for someone who was heavily transgendered while not getting it about him/herself...

    I remain confused, in a dress. Your friend,

    elizabethamy
    When you are weighting those moments you are the one who sets the importance. For example being a computer geek who learns to code would be considered to more masculine than feminine, look at all those hairy computer wizs, but almost no one knows that first programmer was woman, Ada Lovelace. The same stereotype is about someone who is good at math.

    When it comes to cars with big engines there are two test drivers in Formula One this season who are women. There are no womes in NASCAR, Formula 2, Dakar rallye (I remember, I think, pink Toyota with two women aboard when it was still in Africa), DTM? How is this relevant? Watching Formula One was a nice tradition because I could be with my grandpa. These days he has bound himself to a ruin which he thinks he is keeping for us, his (grand)children, but no one wants it. And we told him.

    There would be some macho moments in my life that were caused by the need to belong somewhere or not to get hurt by others or learned from others how to act as a guy. Did I enjoyed? It was better than to be completely alone.

    Btw. when you see a man in a skirt is he a CD or Scottish?

    Gee, I would be a great onna-bugeisha. I know more girls who practice(d) fencing than guys.

    In the end the weights are important, dots just are.

    I hope I didn't offend you, elizabethamy, if I did then I am sorry.
    Last edited by Andie Elisabeth; 04-18-2012 at 09:48 AM.
    "It'll be just like old times, except...different" -- Ezri Dax

  6. #6
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    697
    not offended, so seldom offended. just a wee bit confused! It's true -- you select your own data points and you give them weight. I live by examples and some work better than others. Of course if one is going to present as one thing (male) then there would be many more male data points than female ones. for me the challenge is to know what i reallly want. then the rest would be relatively easy. yet i think the main confusion is how to separate "wants" and "desires" from what "is" your reality. That's where TS is of a different order than anything else. The path is there but it's hard to know where it is even if you might be walking on it.

  7. #7
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,640
    Right Andie..

    Eliz your comment about living in a forest and a forestry degree is an example of the type of thinking that gets us into trouble.

    its fish to bicycles.. trying to compare your real gender identity to things you like, traits you have, things you care about, your physicality and anything else you "do" just doesn't work..and guess what, I STILL LOVE going out drinking with my old guy friends!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still love hockey games and horror movies (i even have a Devil's Rejects poster and lots of "guy stuff" in my study)..once i started living as a woman, the need to feminize my life was gone...i just am me
    So I had the same ideas you do...they protected me at the time...now they just are things i like to do..

    andie's comment about "dots just are" is my point... we look at those dots and refuse/can't/don't bother to connect them...

    and i think eliz to be more specific on my OP, i didn't connect the dots AND THEN become certain... I didn't become certain until i lived a real life, and perhaps even after i got ffs and started blending in...
    the gender dysphoria was eradicated...that's what the goal is ...

    but now that I just am, i can look back , slap my palm to my forehead and say "what a dope!"...and that leads me to wonder if people that are trying to come to terms with this can think back and compare notes...

    if I recall, your situation is more that you DIDN"T have these moments...your challenge is to figure out what that means to you based on what you know now (ie you are suffering gender dysphoria )

  8. #8
    Banned Read only
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,367
    Oh my goodness..... I should have wrote a book about Data Points. They were all there for years. I had to simply ingore them until I could get out on my own because nothing was going to happen at home.

    Kaitlyn mentions Lyn Conway's ts women's success page. I was asked to be included in it. I refused because I did not want that kind of publicity at the time.

    Another book by Jan Morris is Pleasures of a Tangled Life. Is a good read.

  9. #9
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    697
    Kaitlyn, you are right about my situation...looking back is something I'm doing a lot of as I try to figure out how I could have ignored so much for so long, or not known it, or what. ? I'm trying to retrace steps, find more data points in what so far is a fairly skimpy sample...roads not taken (forestry major) are so different from core identity issues. You don't become a TS because someone tells you at age 14 to try on a dress, but you might become a forestry major due to such an external influence.

    How to know the self, what it is now and what it was always -- that's the question. I'm wondering if collecting these data points helps, or if it just reassures, the way that knowing you are a DES son reassures you that your gender anomalies are biological and not imagined. That is, helpful but ultimately not at the core of what one needs to do next. Forgive me if I'm not making sense. I feel the importance of this concept you've raised and can't quite get my cute little arms around it!

    e.

  10. #10
    Silver Member Inna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,488
    As I recall the denial galore, it is all about the price!!! I remember at 7years old laying to bed and dreaming of a princess, a beautiful soft, sensual girl, experiencing the world through her own eyes, and then waking up to the realities of what is. And What was, seemed so strong and undeniable, that the dream had to remain a dream, despite yearning to be true. Then came adolescence, and day by day, poisoned by culture, church, family, peers and testosterone, I walked the path of deceit.

    Finally, the realization, after I had experienced wealth, wisdom and experience of life that all I know and built until now is worth [SIZE="3"]nothing[/SIZE] without being TRUE SELF!

    So came the crossroads, and choice of a price so painful and high that death seemed a better choice!

    Despite my best effort, I had to pay that price, and now I am glad I did, but then I simply had no other choice besides the inevitable abyss.


    So, as I have always been INNA, not always was I aware of her need to be in this world and throughout nearly all my life I had denied the freedom to be ME.

    I suppose the question to all the transgender should rather be: "Can you afford to pay the price of freedom, because it will simply take everything you got and then some!"

  11. #11
    What Me Worry
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    A Tarheel State of Mind
    Posts
    3,363
    How many of us ignored all the signs around us until the proverbial 2X4 hit us upside the head. I know I have tried to analyze to death why did I not see this before I finally acted, in hindsight it's crystal clear. I think for me it was fear of knowing the truth which held me back my whole life. I did all the usual guy things but it was to mostly hide to build that wall if you will between myself and the facts of life in the sixties. I married my soul mate hoping it would drive the feelings away but it did not so I buried my thoughts deeper thinking I was perverted and no one else was like me but that caused me to just become an angrier person which hurt all my relationships more data ignored. I finally hit a point where I knew I could no longer my life the way I was so it is data points we miss or fear until we finally need to be our true selves?
    To Dream The Impossible Dream.
    Full Time 10/1/2012

  12. #12
    ~On the road to Erin~ ZosKiaCultusC7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    The Pacific Northwest, U.S.
    Posts
    155
    For the past several months, I have been searching for signs in my childhood. Sure, there are signs that I ignored during my adult life, such as "wanting to be her" rather than "wanting to be with her" and the thought of chromosome manipulation (biology class in college). There may be some signs pointing back to middle school (circa age 13) but I cannot say for certain because I don't know for certain. I dressed in makeup, nail polish, dresses, wigs etc. but it could have been associated with musical expression. This was also the period where depression was heavy but I don't know why I was so depressed. Teenage adolescence? Maybe. Confusion? Possible.

    Anyway, younger childhood may in fact contain some data. The other day, I decided to go through some very old school stuff, since my mom kept a lot of it. As a young kid, I never was into sports and other stereotypical boyish things but I was always into video games. So, that's my logical answer for not being into sports; I was always into video games and technology. One thing that I found that actually does ring some bells is my favorite thing during preschool. We had a toy kitchen and well, it was my favorite thing to play with. Looking back, I can remember the colors, the design and even the texture. It's funny how the brain remembers certain things that occurred decades in the past, all it needs is a little jump start.

    I also came across pictures from when I was younger. I now know how much of an influence my father's masculinity really had on me and how it may have caused me to ignore any feelings of feeling "different". Somewhat wide stance, arms slightly out, hands in fist-form: something not usual for a very young kid unless they picked it up from someone. This may not really be related and I may be grabbing straws here to find early signs but I can't help to wonder how things would have turned out if my father wasn't around.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  13. #13
    Unexpected Woman Empress Lainie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    2,084
    Well this certainly rings a bell with me......72 years and I never had a clue! From elementary school, I never associated with the boys, only the girls, had no close male friends, only female ones; played with dolls with my sister. Didn't care for boys toys...so made my own architectural toys, paper houses and cities that my sister joined with me on. (Guess the engineering did come out early!) Remember at 7 wanting to be a girl, my mom said if you can kiss your elbow you can change, admitted she wanted to be a boy....yep, she had many masculine traits, and was never as girly as I am now; Also at 7, wore my sisters skirt, because Greek soldiers wore them, don't know where I picked that up, but I was a voracious reader even then; I think I had it on when my mother came home and if I remember correctly she asked me about it and I said I was playing Greek soldier, which was OK with her. BUT was that really why I wanted to wear it?

    Then when I was about 14 my sister borrowed my pants without my permission so I just borrowed her dress and sat in the backyard eating watermelon in it. My friends came along and asked why I was wearing a dress and I told them. I enjoyed wearing it too.

    Then for Halloween in the sixth grade I dressed as a girl and was soooo disappointed when the teacher "gypsy" who didn't know me said she knew I was really a boy. I enjoyed being a girl that day and night.

    Even as an adult after I was married I never went anywhere with a group of male coworkers, and in fact pretty much left them alone. I sat with a pew of women when I was on jury duty and got teased about it by the bailiff. One of the women gave me her phone number, which I never used since I was married.

    I only had one really close male friend that I felt was more like a brother, he died in his 50's. I never even thought about cross dressing.

    Then one fine day, after weeks of flirting with Michelle and trying for a date; after a marriage, divorce (26 yrs), a 4yr near marriage (she died), several one week-ers, prior to that; Michelle invited me to meet her at a "meeting" she thought I would be interested in. I went and was called she for the first time, it was my tg group; I had my epiphany that night, transitioned to full time the next day; later became a leader in the group.

    I later asked her how she "knew" and her response was; "I just knew; we seem to just know each other, and you will too."
    She now has the official title of my liberator and I love her dearly.

    But still I must wonder - WHY did I not know sooner? Well its water under the bridge; I'm living the life I should be that is near perfect (a million dollars, SRS would be nice!) I have a gg in love with me who I have known for 23 years; my tgirl girlfriend who also loves me and has lived with me for 5 years; and another 51 yr old gg who also loves me.

    Why don't I have a boyfriend? Actually I like women better; all relations are platonic including the gg that lived with me on and off for 11 years, and is now a millionaire in Alaska with 2 young kids; besides, I'm 77 (ignore my age in profile) and the men would need to be in their 80's and 99% are either dead or dying. Oh yeah, I would like more demonstrative affection and even sex, but who knows, maybe it will come back. I really don't care anymore.
    Last edited by Empress Lainie; 04-19-2012 at 06:12 AM. Reason: another thought
    [SIZE=2]Ascended Ancient[/SIZE]

  14. #14
    HW change required Andie Elisabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Former Austria-Hungary
    Posts
    134
    I closed my mouth and now I can write

    When I started school, ok, first day I had a red bow tie, but overall I had pencil case with three pockets full of color pencils and things like that. I preferd company of girls. At that time it was popular among girls to collect stickers with pictures of horses. Guess what? I collected them too. Guys were into hockey player cards and pogs, I didn't understood why.

    During second grade we had non optional swimming classes. I sucked. But later when (re)discovered my mom's and aunt's swimming medals I wanted to be like mom and earn my own. Screw dad's orienteering In third grade I rocked but I didn't have the ambition.

    In fourth grade I transfered into a swimming/ice hockey class and every single thing began to screw itself up. It was time when I had act masculine which I didn't know how. So I began building walls and rest to the outside world is history. And I asked myself why I wasn't in the regular classroom as was one girl who swam too.

    On the inside I barely survived. But since 8th grade I had my bedroom always painted in purple, and I love it And I have never opened up until now.

    And I forgot that during one trip while I was in third grade with youth organization (unisex scout or something like that) I learned how to make friendship bracelets, now I do them when I can't focus but need to meditate, and boys told afront that I will not sleep with them so I slept among girls, I even liked the small talk, until I was for the second night "reassigned".

    I also forgot that before 8th grade I already knew that TS's bottom operation is performed by penile inversion. I know because my asked me in 7th grade. When I was watching on TV, it was during afternoon, don't how it was possible, I wasn't disgusted at all.

    EDIT: And I can go on and on.
    Last edited by Andie Elisabeth; 04-18-2012 at 12:17 PM.
    "It'll be just like old times, except...different" -- Ezri Dax

  15. #15
    Member Anne Elizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    162
    I had also read somewhere where present day knowledge can go back and connect the dots or data points to make them become what you want them to. I myself have spent much time looking back and rethinking the past. Why did I do this or why did I feel this way and did doing this or that mean anything significant to me the or does it mean something now. I also think and rethink what my therapist told me about some of those thoughts. A normal young boy does not have thoughts about how one should have been a girl. A normal young boy (especially before puberty) would not want to dress as a girl or derive peace of mind by dressing as a girl. When I think of some of the data points for example; cinderella I would have rather been her than the prince, I wanted to dress as a girl for halloween instead of my brother, why did I wear panties in 4th grade sometimes? I spent most of my time being jealous of the girls because of the clothes, the actions, etc.
    Yes I have to agree that the data points in our past can be twisted to match or justify our actions today. But statistics are just that, statistics. IE. if I had a sale last year and sold 1 banana split then this year during the same time frame sold 2 I could say sales were up 100 percent. Just like wanting to dress as a girl when young ( Yes sometimes it could be said it was for a joke or just for fun) But it is just not normal to really want to be person of the opposite sex. It is just not normal to feel more comfortable presenting as a woman than as a guy. It is just not normal leaving the house in a dress and wig to look your best as a woman when it is so much easier to just be a guy.
    (you have to excuse the my use of the word normal, but in the crux of things generally, or normally a heterosexual male does not have a constant drag on their mind that they want to be a female) Where as I myself do and feel better about myself presenting as a female and a darn sight happier in life doing so.

  16. #16
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    697
    AnneElizabeth,

    You make a terrific point. It's not "normal" to want to be of the other gender, at whatever age. It's not "normal" in general to buck seemingly harmless tendencies such as that of the women to gather in the kitchen while the men go outside at a family reunion. And, though one can debate how common it is, it's probably not normal as a child to have to will onself to seem and to appear male enough to fit in -- to hold one's books the right way, to walk the right way, to act "tough" enough. These traits come naturally, I would guess, to the nontransgendered child which is why they aren't ever talked about.

    How much data is enough? What counts? The core, I think, of what you are saying is that how one wants to behave and be now, in adulthood, is the data that matters. Still, this has been a fascinating romp through childhood and young adulthood, stirring memories and illuminating the whole concept of when, how and why does one "know" one is transgendered...

    elizabethamy

  17. #17
    Aspiring Member Anna Lorree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    556
    Finding the dots isn't the hard part. The dots, the hints, the clues, even quietly filed bits of knowledge are all there for me. I knew as a child that I wanted to do things my sister got to do, but I was not supposed to. By age 15, I knew with a definite certainty that I was supposed to be a girl. It hit me like a ton of bricks, and profoundly impacted me. A little while after that, I ended a day in tears after realizing I simply couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger of the shotgun I had in my mouth. After deciding to bury it, I knew it was always there. I would fight it down, then it would pop back up. My problem isn't knowing whether or not it is there, rather my problem is figuring out how I live honorably with the commitments I made between my realization in my teens and the start of my acceptance in my mid 30's.

    Yesterday I was thinking to myself, and I called myself something I never had before. I called myself a latent transsexual. When I realized that, there wasn't a huge feeling of angst or humiliation or fear. It was more like a quiet acceptance, a resignation. Like I had drawn enough lines between enough dots that I am starting to really see the picture. Now I have to figure out what I am going to do about it.

    Anna

    Quote Originally Posted by elizabethamy View Post
    to hold one's books the right way
    If I don't have a book bag, I still clutch my books in front of my chest. I have always felt it right to carry them that way. Yet another dot, I guess...

    Anna
    Last edited by ReineD; 04-18-2012 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Merging. Multiposting not allowed, please use the Edit/Quote/Multiquote functions.
    "If you're going through Hell, keep going."
    -Winston Churchill

  18. #18
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Lea Paine View Post

    Constantly evaluating my context for proper behavior. If I'm not thinking, I walk into the ladies restroom, for example.
    ... as I did an hour ago at the dentist's office.

    Lea
    Lea

  19. #19
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,377
    Quote Originally Posted by elizabethamy View Post
    It all makes me wonder how many Jan Morris books and other related moments add up to certainty that one should have known of one's transgenderedness...taking those data points and weighing them against the rest -- the time spent at baseball games, the love of cars with big engines, the enjoyment of going out drinking with the guys....in a life lived as a male, there would have been many more macho data points than girly ones, even for someone who was heavily transgendered while not getting it about him/herself...

    I remain confused, in a dress.
    I'm confused too. On occasion I've had wives ask me what is the difference between a CDer caught in a pink fog, and someone on their way to realizing they are TS, since many of the data points are the same. I don't know what to answer, since ultimately it boils down to how the individual feels about him/herself. No one can measure this.

    I know men who are not into sports or any of the stereotypical guy things like drinking with buddies, ogling women, etc, and who feel comfortable talking about a variety of topics with both men and women. Yet as far as I can see, they are not trans. Does a preference for the gentler things in life and an ability to talk to women mean that someone is transsexual? Is this a meaningful data point?

    Maybe it all boils down to always having known the male persona was a mask? Looking back and detecting GID from the very beginning, even if there was no name for it then?
    Reine

  20. #20
    Silver Member Kathryn Martin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,433
    Kaitelyn, with this post you are putting a finger on something that I think is of enormous importance. Because this mining the data thing has it's own flip side as well and requires a very careful approach to the content of the data.

    In fall of 2010 I wrote a piece about re-writing history because these issues you raise loomed large in my mind. It was all about being truthful in this process, if not to anyone else to yourself. I will not post this piece here but here is a link if you feel like reading it. Re-Writing History or The Art of Being True to Yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    There have been alot of questioning posts lately...

    i think this can be about breaking the ice, and folks that lurk here in the ts section, seeing some very good and courageous people sharing their story, and deciding to jump in with their story...anyway...

    it made me think of all the signs i ignored over the years. Can you remember things you tucked away..for example, in my college years, i was a librarian.. i recall finding Jan Morris' book Conundrum...she was a pioneer transitioner...and i was literally obsessed with ONE passage about her getting in a cab and experiencing a guy calling her "luv" for the first time...in that moment to me, she was a woman...it wasn't about dressing, it wasn't about emulating...it was being to me...and i would go up and read that passage all the time!!! over and over!!! how strange...and it was especially strange because it didn't click with me that i was just like her...

    I also recall in mid 90's i found lyn conway's ts women's success page and her ffs page... i became obsessed (and this is when i developed my debilitating (heh) internet addiction!!!) with those pages... i read and reread them... and i still didnt connect the dots!!! i figured i was just into transsexuals..duh!!!!!!!!...i started thinking of getting a nose job from these ffs surgeons...i viewed it as a CD fantasy... could i do it and nobody notice? how long would it take? could i pass better? etcetc...but never...I'm TS...btw...i noticed at the time there was broken link after broken link...the Kate rule demonstrated in full effect..so many of them wanted to be known, then didn't want to be known!!..

    in the early 2000's i was making $$ and i traveled and dressed often...and i recall driving around by myself (which i did for almost 20yrs!) and i kept thinking of how I desperately wished i could talk to people, go to work "this way", i fantasized of renting an apartment and "living there" as a woman... AND STILL I DID NOT CONNECT THE DOTS!!!

    anyway....it may help you if you are questioning to think back and try to mine those memories for "data" that can build your confidence that you are thinking straight...
    "Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)

  21. #21
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,377
    Thank you both Kathryn and Lea. Maybe it is as simple as tracing the dysphoria back to childhood, even when there were other moments of happiness (or gender free moments) during childhood. Maybe this is what I can suggest these wives ask their husbands.

    Lea, what does looking at the world through female eyes mean? I'm not trying to be flippant but not having experienced two genders, I only know one way. I don't know how I would describe my way of looking at life compared to my brother's, even when we share similar histories.
    Reine

  22. #22
    Banned Read only
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,367
    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    Lea, what does looking at the world through female eyes mean?
    Is that like looking through rose colored glasses?

  23. #23
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    697
    I don't think I have yet crossed over to "being female," but ReineD's comment about masks really resonates with me. When I look back, I don't see evidence of wishing I was a girl, but I do see a lot of effort -- going all the way back and up to the present day -- to try to present myself as a normal male, one of the guys. Alwyas without ever thinking I might be female -- that never flashed through my mind -- but the sense that I was "acting" male, especially conventional macho-male, was there all the time. What an interesting thread. Sometimes I feel as if I'm going to graduate school by reading this forum. It -- you -- are amazing!

    elizabethamy

  24. #24
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,377
    Quote Originally Posted by Lea Paine View Post
    I can't explain that, either, but I just KNOW.
    So could it be as simple as saying it is the difference between knowing and wishing?

    This is the way I feel about my gender. I Know I am female. I do not wish to become, nor feel as if I might be, I just Know. It is an intrinsic knowledge, just the way it is described in the WPATH definitions.

    Conversely, maybe TSs never really Know they are men?
    Reine

  25. #25
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    indiana
    Posts
    697
    And this is all mixed in with personality types. Once Kaitlyn Michele said, "It all comes down to what you want." To which I replied that I am the kind of person who can go to pieces trying to decide what to order for lunch! Whereas there are others who are totally sure of themselves in every aspect and on every decision until they change their minds -- with equal sureness. When you apply those different types of personalities to the question: "Am I TS or not?" you get...I don't know. In my case, you get someone who's pretty confused.

    elizabethamy

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Check out these other hot web properties:
Catholic Personals | Jewish Personals | Millionaire Personals | Unsigned Artists | Crossdressing Relationship
BBW Personals | Latino Personals | Black Personals | Crossdresser Chat | Crossdressing QA
Biker Personals | CD Relationship | Crossdressing Dating | FTM Relationship | Dating | TG Relationship


The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

Browse Crossdressers By State