Losing the MAN she married

[minalost]

Out of the blue last week my wife tells me, I say again TELLS ME, that we are getting a hotel room on Saturday and that I’m to bring my “girl cloths.”

My response, of course, is to say, “No way! You can’t make me! I’m not going to put on a dress…!”

Okay, just kidding!

Of course I’m ecstatic! Dancing in the street even! To be clear, my wife does not like my cross-dressing. She does not find women attractive, and is deathly afraid of my being “outed” and having it affect my ability to support the family, or damage her relationship with her relatives. Some may not understand her position, or agree with it, but that’s the world I live in.

So having her suggest a “dress up” session is a huge step.

On Saturday we drive 80 miles to a different town, get a hotel room and I get to dress up for the evening. Denim skirt, floral ¾ sleeve top, heels, make up, wig, breast forms, and panty hose… It has been months sense my last chance to dress up and it feels wonderful!

As the evening progresses I finally work up the courage to talk to my wife about my dressing. Yes, it always takes me a long time to “work up the courage” to talk to my wife about cross-dressing. Why? The habit of hiding. Most in my generation of cross-dressers (I’m 52) have a built it reflex of secrecy that is almost impossible to break. I my case it is so ingrained that it is sometimes physically impossible to talk about my cross-dressing. All in my head? Of course it is! That doesn’t make it any less real…

Any way, we have a chance to talk about some things. Some things I want to do, like wearing more jewelry and getting my ears and navel pierced. Things she doesn’t like: my long and painted nails… We have the inevitable discussion about sex change (no I don’t want to…), going full time enfemme (again, not for me).

Then she asked, “Just how feminine do you want to look all the time?” This was a hard question to answer. To give you an idea of my appearance, I pluck my eyebrows, I epilate my arms and legs, and I have long nails that are painted with OPI clear matte nail strengthener (yes, you can tell they are painted, no matter what anyone says…). The best, most honest, answer I could come up with is androgynous. I don’t thinks she was totally happy with this, but she didn’t demand a divorce.

It was at about this point in the conversation when she said that she was, “afraid of losing the man she married (Emphasis on the word “man.”) That every time I became a little bit more feminine, I became a little less the MAN she married.”

Wow, that was a long way to come to the point! How many of you have had the same conversation with your spouse? How did you deal with it?

[Stephanie47]

I am no where near having a conversation with my wife about cross dressing. If she were to ask me, my truthful answer is I would love to have her participation once in a while. Frankly I would love to sit with her while en femme on a hotel balcony overlooking the Pacific Ocean. I do not want to deprive my wife of the man she married, However, I would love to have the ability to show a little self expression. I know it will NEVER happen, so I just do not push the envelope.

I suggest that you are really observant and do not push the envelope to the extent she does an 180 degree turn.

[Miriam-J]

I certainly understand the difficulty in talking. 51 here with the same habits from many years of secrecy. But the key to a good relationship is, of course, great communication.

My wife and I have certainly had the discussion about "how far". When first asked during our courtship three+ years ago, my answer was "I don't know". Since then she has helped me to explore the possibilities and I've reached conclusions similar to yours - but I definitely want to remain a guy and appear to be one most of the time.

And we've had serious discussions about what features add to or detract from her perception of me as a man, and the boundaries can be kind of interesting. Wearing a nightie or light dress with only light makeup (even heels) and no wig - no real impact. Add dangly earrings (she helped me get them pierced) and it gets a bit fuzzier. Wig and heavy makeup definitely cross the line. Shaving hair from chest or arms would definitely be a problem, but shaving hands is no problem at all. Dressing every night, especially in bed, would cross a line, but a third or half the nights isn't a problem. Once we know where the perceptions lie, I can adjust my clothing and frequency to match.

Your boundaries will differ and will only come from open discussion and a bit of trial & error, but take a cautious approach. Keep in mind that you'd probably like for her to be the WOMAN you married too, so it's only fair.

Good luck as you work through it.

Miriam

[kimdl93]

I just read Peggy Rudds book 'My Husband Wears My Clothes ' . In it she writes about how many women have a funeral and grieve the loss of their male partner as paert of the process of accepting their transgendered spouse. So yes in a way your wife may feel that sense of loss. But you can lessen that feeling by bringing him back from time to time. I know its not something we enjoy but its a reasonable compromise and may ease the path of acceptance.

[suchacutie]

Tina was thrust upon us very suddenly. In fact it took 48 hours to go from no Tina to realizing there was a Tina, naming her, getting her an e-mail address, and then to start working out who Tina really is and what role she plays.

During this initial conversation some clear guidelines were set and they really haven't changed. Among them were the expected "I'm not interested in men (or other women, for that matter) and I don't want to lose my male self". One agreement we had immediately is that when my wife wants her man, she gets him.

For me, my two gendered selves are as completely separate as possible. My wife describes it as "two applications running on the same database". Of course, the body has to support both these genders, so there are some compromises such as shaped eyebrows, pierced ears, OPI matte finish on the nails (need it for medicinal purposes, actually), and some missing body hair, but basically when I'm in male mode no one would mistake me for a girl. Tina sheds all that when she transforms.

What that does for us is to put a clear boundary between my gendered selves, and it has allowed Tina incredible lattitude because she's not trying to encroach into my masculine self, something my wife appreciates. To my thinking, this "limitation" is well worth the "price of admission" if you catch my drift. It has allowed us to explore Tina's nature almost without bounds. Also, except for my wife, no one else knows both of my gendered selves or makes a connection between them, hence anonymity, which also works for my wife.

Your boundaries will certainly be different, but I think that if you focus on what can work for both of you it is likely that your feminine life will have ever more freedom.

best wishes,
tina

[gretagarters]

I don't have a problem with secrecy - my wife knows and doesn't seem to mind. :My problem is how to make it fun and it's mostly my own self consciousness that keeps me from developing our adventures - and even from doing it more often. I'm not interested in permanent femininity - I just like dressing for the sensual excitement of it. My spouse gets that, and as far as I can tell is fine with it. I guess mostly I'm concerned that she think I like my lingerie fetish more than I do our 'regular' attraction, which is certainly not so. I would like to be able to make it more of a game or something, so we can laugh and relax with it - got any suggestions?

[Silentpartner GG SO]

From posts by wives , the main consideration which seems to cause anxiety, is not so much the femminisation. They can get their head round an alternative ego, or play acting, or some very strange hobby. But it is when it becomes something which is not a costume that can be taken off, that they get uncomfortable. When it starts to be visible in everyday life it becomes something else other than an eccentricity they can live with.
I understand that because it is threatening on so many levels.

Yes, this is my standpoint - I am absolutely ok with the dressing but I dont want to see any permanent or semi-permanent changes to my husband - no eyebrow plucking, no body shaving, no long fingernails - those are things which I consider as crossing the line -

If I had a SO who was crazy about Samurai warriors it would be ok for her to dress up as a character or even wear jewellery to represent that character in every day life. But if she shaved her head to look like one, I'd feel I lost the person I knew and that she'd gone slightly insane.

this is a brilliant analagy

[Marleena]

Just one comment..If she hates the nails why not cut them and use press ons instead??

You need to be careful because she's onboard but you risk losing that. You need to find compromise.

[Kate Simmons]

Well you know Hon, we are all programmed at an early age as to what we should look forward to and expect. Girls especially, get bombarded with this "Prince Charming" fantasy about some cute hunky guy who will take them away and provide for them and live happily ever after, some big hero. Problem is, heroes get tired and some start looking at the damsel role and say: "Hey I want some of that." The stereotypes are built up and the non stereotypes are scorned. Intelligent people break that yoke though and I say to whoever can do that, especially couples: "More power to you." In that case real life is refreshingly different.

[sometimes_miss]

Had a very similar conversation with my ex while we were in therapy before the divorce. What you're doing is screwing up her internally created image of who you are to her. To clarify: We all create an image of the person we know, based on what we know about them. And it's that 'image' that we fall in love with; the visual, the personality, etc.. The 'real' person could be someone entirely different, but unless we know about that, it will not dissuade us from being attracted to them. What happens when a wife discovers a husband's cross gender traits can 'kill' off the image she has of him as a sexy masculine person. When that's gone, she may still love you, but it will become more like the love she has for her parents, siblings, and children; the romantic feelings will be gone. And that's usually the beginning of the end, sexually, anyway; the big danger then, is that she starts (either consciously or subconsciously) to look for another male to replace you for her sexual/romantic desires/needs.

[Joann Smith]

I too have had the conversation about "loosing the man she married" and it kinda pisses me off a bit because i do not feel that the man has to go away to be the woman you are ..and thats the argument i make ...the only thing that has changed about me is the fact she is getting to know who the person is that she is are married to , and either you are in love with that entire person or you are in love with an idea of a person who you would like for them to be. And if the latter is the case that person really only exist in her head.

The person I am is male in body female in sprit and there is not a damm thing i can do about it and you got to trust me when i say i have tried.

This argument has held up pretty good so far ...Because she has not left me ..yet...Ok that and I keep buying her new cars helps..

[Barbara Ella]

I believe this is also a central point to my situation. Married 41 years, and 7 months ago i start cross dressing. In this case, yes, the man she married has changed and added a whole new dimension to the mental structure that was her man. She had no knowledge of this dimension when we were first married. She is still grieving at the loss of a part of her stable mental picture of me, and the promise of continuing the same mental support that comes from 41 years together.

On top of that comes the worry about dressing, the gradual increased femininity of my dressing, and the panic inducing thought of my wanting to dress enfemme an inordinately high amount of the time, including when we are together. There is a balance between the make and female presentation that once above will mean to her that my feminine side is in control, and the male is subjugated and no longer in charge, and then she does not consider it a marriage between a man and a woman. All this is in the future, right now she cannot even get past feminine clothes in her sight, period.

It is a delicate balancing act we must engage in. Different circumstances will have significantly different impacts on the perception of our SO. Knowing the extent of that impact requires communication. I pray that you still have that communication. I have lost mine for the present and can only hope it comes back with time.

Long way to a short answer.....NO, I have not had that conversation, only the opening round which ended 4 weeks ago.

Barbara

[Abby74]

I think for me it's changing as I get older and more confident in myself. I haven't been able to work up the confidants to dress in a truly public setting. With a little more practice and time I think I'll be out shopping with my girl friends. My wife flat out said we are not looking into sex change or anything. I had to explain to her I'm not either but I would like to have enough clothes and enough confidants that I could dress for anything. In a few years I think I'll be there even if it a dinner with friends or an out of town trip. I'll be ready with the flats for sure if the car breaks down.

[minalost]

I don't have a problem with secrecy - my wife knows and doesn't seem to mind. :My problem is how to make it fun and it's mostly my own self consciousness that keeps me from developing our adventures - and even from doing it more often. I'm not interested in permanent femininity - I just like dressing for the sensual excitement of it. My spouse gets that, and as far as I can tell is fine with it. I guess mostly I'm concerned that she think I like my lingerie fetish more than I do our 'regular' attraction, which is certainly not so. I would like to be able to make it more of a game or something, so we can laugh and relax with it - got any suggestions?

When I was younger dressing had a very sexual or fetish componant. Not so much these days and my wife absolutly refuses to consiser sex while I'm enfemme. I understand this totally, and, like I said, this is more of a gender role thing for me than a sexual thing, so it's not a problem.

Yes, this is my standpoint - I am absolutely ok with the dressing but I dont want to see any permanent or semi-permanent changes to my husband - no eyebrow plucking, no body shaving, no long fingernails - those are things which I consider as crossing the line -



this is a brilliant analagy

But hair grows back and nails can be cut... Also, I would actually be cool with the idea of my wife expressing her "inner samurai..."

Just one comment..If she hates the nails why not cut them and use press ons instead??

You need to be careful because she's onboard but you risk losing that. You need to find compromise.

I tried press ons years ago and I hate them; too much work and way to fakey. I truely understad the need for compromise, but I think that sometimes we (the crossdressers) feel we need to give up too much in compromises because we are the ones "in the wrong."

I too have had the conversation about "loosing the man she married" and it kinda pisses me off a bit because i do not feel that the man has to go away to be the woman you are ..and thats the argument i make ...the only thing that has changed about me is the fact she is getting to know who the person is that she is are married to , and either you are in love with that entire person or you are in love with an idea of a person who you would like for them to be. And if the latter is the case that person really only exist in her head.

The person I am is male in body female in sprit and there is not a damm thing i can do about it and you got to trust me when i say i have tried.

This argument has held up pretty good so far ...Because she has not left me ..yet...Ok that and I keep buying her new cars helps..

Part of my problem is, the older I get the more I resent the need to ask permission to dress the way I want, to groom myself the way I want, and to do the things I want. I know this sounds selfish, but after 30+ years of marrage, raising two wonderful kids (both are over 21 years old now, and still out of jail ), and always putting my needs second to someone elses, I seems like it's time for me to live a little. I also understand that having to "ask permission" is part of the whole marrage thing; I get that, and it does work both ways... most of the time . Gosh, this really does sound selfish, and I do listen and work with my wife to make our marrage work, but I feel the need to vent right now.

I think for me it's changing as I get older and more confident in myself. I haven't been able to work up the confidants to dress in a truly public setting. With a little more practice and time I think I'll be out shopping with my girl friends. My wife flat out said we are not looking into sex change or anything. I had to explain to her I'm not either but I would like to have enough clothes and enough confidants that I could dress for anything. In a few years I think I'll be there even if it a dinner with friends or an out of town trip. I'll be ready with the flats for sure if the car breaks down.

This is also at the crux of my problem. I'd like to start going out to the mall or to a movie enfemme, but my wife is totally against me being dressed in public, and it doesn't look like there is any chance of this changing. I'm even willing to go to a different town when I do this, but it seems like a non-starter.

Thanks for listening.

[SallyS]

I can sympathize!

I'm 50/50 when it comes to time for my male and female personality.

I like to think I'm pretty manly in male mode, but I know having a clean shaven body, means it's always in the face of my SO.

She's OK with it, but I know it does take away some of my masculinity, as she see's it.

It's hard to switch off from female to male at times, and I'm sure she senses it.

I just try to be the perfect gentleman (and man), when I need too, but I know she will always see a bit of Sally in me.

[Claire Cook]

It was at about this point in the conversation when she said that she was, “afraid of losing the man she married (Emphasis on the word “man.”) That every time I became a little bit more feminine, I became a little less the MAN she married.”

Wow, that was a long way to come to the point! How many of you have had the same conversation with your spouse? How did you deal with it?

Mina, there probably are as many answers to this issue as there are the couples who face it. My wife was attracted to me in part because she sensed sensitivity and other traits that may seem less "masculine" (I'd prefer to call it "more human") and called me "sweet one" -- as an endearing term , not negative. This was before she know about my CD'ing. Then the usual concerns -- do you want a sex change? (as above, no). Will this affect our sex life? (It didn't). BUT: this is us, and as noted we are all different. I think my guiding rule has been that we have a long-term partnership, and these always require gives and takes.
So if I have any advice for what it's worth , keep the channels open, and always be sensitive to her needs.

[Rogina B]

My pretty Venezuelan wife has an even stronger way to put it "Rogina killed off Roger..and I married Roger". As an out and about girl, mostly she is accepting.As far as permanent body changes,well they have been discussed as well.. After church yesterday[the UU in Boston] a woman told me that I have the best of two worlds..I get to enjoy the trappings of femininity ,yet can earn as a male..I know that I have it pretty good at home compared to most.

[katie_barns]

I have so been down this road. I wish I could give you an answer but as of now I am still at a standoff with her. OK, call it a compromise. She doesn't want anything to remind her that I dress. I keep my nails long. Shave my body, and pluck my eyebrows. She doesn't like any of this, but accepts it as long as she doesn't see me dressed. I think it silly but I have to respect her. Her big issue like your wife is she doesn't want to lose the man. The problem is; if given complete freedom I can't say she wouldn't !!!

[Barbara Jo]

Suppose it was the other way around and it was your wife who wanted to cross dress, even pass as a male and she gradually became more and more masculin?
How would you feel loosing the womam you married?

[RADER]

This is one reason my wife lets me dress any way I want to;
How ever, I can not shave my very heavy chest hair. She likes to run her fingers through it.
Even when I have a baby doll nightie on at night, she still feels the chest hair, and she has her
man next to her.
Rader

[Miriam-J]

This is one reason my wife lets me dress any way I want to; How ever, I can not shave my very heavy chest hair. She likes to run her fingers through it. Even when I have a baby doll nightie on at night, she still feels the chest hair, and she has her
man next to her.

The same for me. That chest hair is so important to her.

[kimdl93]

...Part of my problem is, the older I get the more I resent the need to ask permission to dress the way I want, to groom myself the way I want, and to do the things I want. I know this sounds selfish, but after 30+ years of marrage, raising two wonderful kids (both are over 21 years old now, and still out of jail ), and always putting my needs second to someone elses, I seems like it's time for me to live a little. I also understand that having to "ask permission" is part of the whole marrage thing; I get that, and it does work both ways... most of the time . Gosh, this really does sound selfish, and I do listen and work with my wife to make our marrage work, but I feel the need to vent right now.



This is also at the crux of my problem. I'd like to start going out to the mall or to a movie enfemme, but my wife is totally against me being dressed in public, and it doesn't look like there is any chance of this changing. I'm even willing to go to a different town when I do this, but it seems like a non-starter.

Thanks for listening.

I think you need to talk to her about this. I mean seriously, you're obviously a mature person. And while she may feel she's losing something, its not entirely fair to you. She needs to hear this from you. Not in a harsh way, but clearly, it means a great deal to you. Compromise is good, well and fine, but in the end both parties in a marriage must learn to compromise.

[minalost]

Suppose it was the other way around and it was your wife who wanted to cross dress, even pass as a male and she gradually became more and more masculin?
How would you feel loosing the womam you married?

I've heard this argument before and it just doesn't hold water for me. I can't honestly say what my reaction would be until it happens, but I'd like to think I could accept it. I mean, it's only fair right? If I want to present as feminine I should be able to let her present as masculine if she wants to. Easy to say, I know, but I want to think I could handle it.

I think you need to talk to her about this. I mean seriously, you're obviously a mature person. And while she may feel she's losing something, its not entirely fair to you. She needs to hear this from you. Not in a harsh way, but clearly, it means a great deal to you. Compromise is good, well and fine, but in the end both parties in a marriage must learn to compromise.

This is kind of how I feel about it. I've only been dressing again for two or three years, after a break and purge of about seven years. She is taking the dressing better this time than before. I think, because I took seven years off and then came back to it, she is begining to understand that this is not going away. That being said, I'm taking it as slow as possible. We did talk a year ago and set boundries. Now those boundries sometimes feel too constricting, but I don't want to push anything so hard that she can't deal with it. It's just that sometimes I get frustrated and need to vent.

Thanks again for listening!

[LarrissaMurray]

Wow, lucky me. I have enough indian blood in me that I have no chest hair and I am pushing 50. OK, so I have 9 of them, one swipe with a razor and they are gone. No back hair either thank goodness.