Don't think I'll ever get back.....

[Debra Russell]

In my experience I think finding out about cding is = to having an affair to some wifes. I was accused of this at one time - not true - and paid the price on the couch for a week untill I finally had enough and told her if she didn't believe me it was her problem and too bad and that I loved her and was faithful, things went back to normal. I think she still knows and accepts me for who I am; however this cding only came up a few yrs ago - she would rather it hadn't but still knows that I am hers in whatever form. Acceptance-no but realizing I am still hers and putting up with me being "wierd" as she calls it is fine with me.

I am sure you have reassured her of your devotion and are faithful - maybe realization of being "wierd" may be in the offering and knowing it can't be related to unfaithfulness -- best wishes, huggs .............................Debra

[Stephanie47]

I don't really get it either! This is SO MINOR in the vastness of life! But it isn't just clothes! It is this need to express a feminine side, a feminine persona that I should be the only one in the relationship expressing. It isn't often that I feel these things, I felt them much more when I first found out, but they creep up every now and then.

Thank you Mandy! Finally, I believe I am getting a truthful answer. I posted a question elsewhere, but, here's the thought that I believe is the truth. The issue is a perception of sexuality. The female is suppose to be the woman in the marriage. Now I firmly believe all males have some vestiges of female sexuality retained after the sex of the fetus has been developed in the womb. That may be the reason for many of us expressing ourselves through cross dressing. However, that is not the issue. The issue is the perception of a woman as it relates to the standard in a marriage of who is suppose to express female sexuality. If this is the expectation of the GG, how can she relate to her cross dressing husband? And, how can she compete with his cross dressing desires? A woman once expressed to me when she discovered her husband was gay, "If it was another woman, I would be able to compete with her for him! How can I compete with another man?"

Mandy's read on the cross dressing issue is basically the read my wife has on the issue. My wife does not want to compete with another woman for her man, even if that person is her man.

[Beverley Sims]

It is a bit like coming out, we all put on a brave face to everyone else.
I jokingly say to people keep your morals up. Meaning morale here.
I assumed you had the bogey beaten, but mistrust is as bad and sad as a cancer.
Keep positive, optimistic and above all don't lose that devilish sense of humor or lose membership of the National sarcasm society.
Wipe your eyes, take a deep breath and as I have said already recently.
Tomorrow is the start of the rest of your life.

[Sarah Doepner]

Karren, sit down, have a cup maybe come cake and relax if you can. You have earned a quiet sit every now and then.

Somehow, and I don't know how it worked out that way, when my wife found out about my crossdressing about 10 years ago (and 25 years into marriage) she saw it as an embodiment of many of the characteristics she loved in me. It made sense that I behaved in ways that she appreciated and was attracted to and that I was trying to discover femininity in myself. Lucky me. However she also saw that I didn't trust her enough to share any of this with her prior to that little surprise. Acceptance and trust don't lodge in the same bunk I guess. Although she has been out with me when I have been crossdressed, she understands that there are many in our families who would find it difficult to remain adults if they were given this new info about me. She shares and I've dragged her into a place where she is uncomfortable.

So even though I do all I can to share everything important with her now, I always forget something and that little black cloud of mistrust hovers over the relationship. She remains in good humor when I begin to take up more closet space than has been allowed or when I take time away from the family for a monthly support group meeting or an annual trip to Diva Las Vegas. Regardless of all I do and all she accepts and understands, that deception is still part of our history and won't be washed away. I can only hope that in time I'll be able to have it shrink in comparison to all that I have done since that moment of discovery, but 25 years of hiding it is a big chunk of time to sweep away. Until that happens, I guess I'm still on probation. Good luck and patience to you.

[Stephanie47]

Sarah Charles; "that deception is still part of our history and won't be washed away away."

My wife asked why I did not tell her of my desire to cross dress. I asked her if she remembered her cousin and her talking about a mutual friend who lived down the block. Did she remember how she and her cousin whispered about her divorce because she found out about the husband's cross dressing? Poor girl! How terrible! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Gossip! Gossip!

My wife did not remember any of that. Well, I did. It is engrained on my brain and heart.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Like I stopped at a rest area and dressed for 10 minutes.... Ok bad example...

Naughty Karren, and the bathroom pictures. :-)

But the truth is I don't think she will ever trust me like she used to.... And it hurts... But I accept it as part of what I did or didn't do and moved on....

I really am sorry Karren. But I have hope you'll get some of the trust back. With me, I lost the trust of my sister, since it was her clothes that I wore early on. She was upset about the privacy thing, and the fact that we shared much, she was upset I didn't confide in her....it cooled our relationship for several years.

I understand completely! I often catch her staring at body parts - looking for changes. I notice she combs through bank statements, checks in with me at work (wow. She literally just called me again as I was typing this), and other things.

That brings something to mind I hadn't thought of in a while. Even after we tell, we can still engage in "separation" and secretive behavior. For example, after I told, I didn't put my makeup stuff out where a "regular" woman would have hers, I had got so used to the secrecy I kept the boxes and bags. And it was quite a while after I told that I ever let my family see me en femme. All sorts of things like that, which may influence how my family saw me. Might have been 2004 before I got over most of it, 2008 before almost all the old patterns were gone.

Anyway, if we separate this from them, it might make our family see us as still "hiding stuff". That's why I think wives/partners need to be more involved. Meaning, instead of getting up early to go out and have a femme day separate from her because we think that they don't want to see it, invite her along to see what really goes on. And of course, keep the lines of hones communication open and discuss things.

I know the trust is gone, but I haven't dressed since October.

Kathi, that's not a good thing I think, though I understand why you haven't.

What I don't know is why you and other GGs/SOs don't see it as just clothes.

Because often, it isn't. It's about a transgendered identity.

One day, she'll come home unexpected, and I'll be all dressed up. What then?

You shouldn't have to hide in your own home. I know you're trying to spare her feelings...but sometimes I think that's not the best thing to do and that it's counter-productive in the long run. But I understand why you feel that way...and I felt that way myself.

I just hope I'm wearing something really pretty.

Of course you will.

I guess in a way, we never asked for it; it just found us and never let go.

Exactly

Oh...and to all you ladies who take the "why get all upset over it - it's just clothes!" route.......

It's NOT just clothes. If it was just clothes, we wouldn't be buying wigs and fake boobies, now would we? Wives very often see this as just plain wierd, and I really don't blame them at all.

Exactly. Good response.

Veronica

[rian]

I had the same experience ...my wife discovered my nature crossdressing ......but we reached a solution ...she does not want to hear about it ....do it without my knowledge....she gave couple of her bras and some panties at the end ...but no sharing any experience.....

[Kelly DeWinter]

What I don't know is why you and other GGs/SOs don't see it as just clothes.
.......

I had to chuckle when I read this, because it really it's not "just clothes", its clothes, wigs, breast forms, makeup, fingernails and/or hormones, etc.

There is sssssssssssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo much more then 'just clothes'

[BRANDYJ]

I agree Kelly. I wonder how those that say it's just clothes would feel if their wife or SO wore men's clothes complete with "packed" pants, jockey shorts, mustache and beard. It is so much mpore then clothes including the internal reasons as to why we dress.

[adrienner99]

Karen-- I have ALWAYS envied how self accepting you always seem to be, and comfortable with dressing-- and I sort of took it for granted your wife supported you...guess I was wrong there!

I have never lost my wife's trust because she does not "know." So I live with a secret and I rarely even get a chance to dress.

Point, is I don't think either of us has a good choice. But at least you get to be what you are--at a high price, however. Bottom line, this whole CD s**t can be pretty impossible to do without hurting someone. I hope you take some solace in knowing you and your wonderful attitude give the rest of us some hope.

[lingerieLiz]

Sorry is about all any one can say. In my situation my wife has know long before we married. I think many women worry about loosing their "man". I have had girlfriends who were accepting, and several women friends. Many indicated they wouldn't want their husbands to CD, but like shopping with me. My wife is not a fan, but accepts. One of the things that almost sent the relationship overboard was my buying a dress when she needed one and felt we couldn't aford it. Since then we have done well and today we enjoy shopping. She would like me to buy more guy clothes, but doesn't protest if I buy women's. That is unless she thinks it's ugly. I think most women are the same as most of us. Wouldn't wish CDing on anyone.

[Rebecca W.]

Hi Karren,
This forum exists based on the mutual kindness and thoughtfulness of our fellow members. I wish you all the best in your relationship with your wife.

Hugs

[LaurenB]

Karren I'm so sorry for your troubles. This is a very cathartic thread because so many of us identify with the anguish brought out in your situation. The thread and subsequent posts really demonstrate the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation many find themselves in. Even many with somewhat accepting wives have the fear that their lives could be turned upside down.

And therein lies the unjust part: that someone who is a husband and a father and a provider, maybe a veteran, typically shouldering the burden of being a male in this crazy over the top competitive society (which typically kills us 7 years earlier than our wives) but happens to have a need to turn away to a softer side of themselves that gives exquisite relief from that world, but for which there is no societally acceptable outlet has yet another thing to worry about - their marriage.

And as others have so correctly pointed out, this isn't like finding out ones spouse is philandering or is a criminal or is abusive or is a banker (just joking) or any number of unethical behaviors or just plain being a bad person. Yes ok, the activity was hidden perhaps. Maybe for years. But in this Dr. Phil driven world of total openness we know what happens when one turns out a secret like CDing - we know because we grew up sensitive males trying to hide that every step of the way in the schoolyard, this is what you get: beaten to a pulp, ridiculed, humiliated or worse. And we all remember it. Just as we have a hard time totally wrapping our heads around being female because we just weren't born that way, our GG counterparts will never understand just how vulnerable we make ourselves are when we expose our female side.

[Karren H]

I understand completely! I often catch her staring at body parts - looking for changes. I notice she combs through bank statements, checks in with me at work (wow. She literally just called me again as I was typing this), and other things. I know the trust is gone, but I haven't dressed since October.

What's it going to take?

Kathi

My wife hasn't checked my phone. She couldn't even make a call on my new Android let alone get online with it. I'm seriously thinking of just taking this year off dressing. Though I don't think it will help her any.

[JamieQ]

My wife does not even know how to use the computer. Her tying skills are so slow she would probably get frustated and give up. If she is determined to do something she will. I know someday she will get to a point to use a computer and get online... Well any ways... maybe giving up dressing for a while is not the end of the world. Like others, I assumed your wife was supportive...you all know what happens when we assume? Amanda

[Karren H]

Karen, you have been someone I've liked and admired from day one joining here. I have known about your wife's lack of acceptance for just about as long as I've gotten to learn and remember who you were. I have always admired the way you put your wife and your marriage before your own need to dress. You made it clear how this bothers you. Yet, you always did it with humor and respect for your wife. I have never sensed a selfish bone in your body. It's refreshing to me to see at least one CD put his marriage and wife first. I read to many threads where it appears the CD is whining about his wants and needs with little regard for his wife. NOT YOU. What little i know of you here from just reading your posts, you must be blessed with a terrific wife that is worth putting your needs behind her wishes. I wish there was some way she could begin to trust you, to put it behind her and begin to love all of you even if not to fully accept or even like you being a CD.
I just want to thank you for showing us that there is a way to make a marriage work in spite of not having the support of your wife and without putting her down for feelings she can't change for whatever reason. I just know you are a good husband and that you appreciate, respect and love your wife in spite of her not being able to let go of her fears or whatever it is she can't come to terms with.
Thanks Karen...Thanks for being here..Thanks for sharing... Thanks for making us laugh at times...

All this in spite of my not liking hockey and your hatred for jeans! But to me, you are one of the special ones here.

Thanks Brandy.... your too sweat.... I do have selfish bone.... When it comes to hockey and chocolate!

Hi Karren. Ugh. I just typed a whole response to this on my phone and i hit submit and boom! Internet connection lost. Sucks for me. Anyways, i just want you to know that i am very empathetic to your situation because I've put myself in situations where my own deceit led to that feeling of which you speak. The hardest part for me to deal with was dealing with the fact that it seems hopeless. It seemed as though no matter what i did, i couldn't be more honest or even try to keep things at an even keel because it seemed like no matter what i did, it got twisted into some form of more mistrust....and when you know there isn't any reason for her to mistrust you, it just hurts.
---if you don't have thick skin you may not want to read the next part---

First girl i was with knew, loved and accepted it wholeheartedly. She was awesome. However, after 5 years of such extereme highs and lows i broke it off with her and cleaned up and stopped dressing. I ended up with another girl not long after (mary). She is the one i refer to. I kept it a secret but mainly cause i didnt wanna dress anymore. Well......(pause for dramatic effect).....the dressing bug came back hard after about a year. Eventually, I told her a couple years into it. Mistrust insues. After a couple years of relentless fighting and suffering I came to the realization that it was over....i just knew. 4 years with her and i really liked her a lot. But i handled it well because i accepted long ago that there would be possible repercussions from keeping it a secret. Its not her fault. Put yourself in her shoes (lol no pun..) some girls just dont want a guy like that. I know it may not be what you wanna hear and im sorry for that but im just explaining how i got through it. Best case senario is that she wakes up and realizes what a beautiful person you are inside and out and i do hope that's what ends up happening. All my best to you sweetheart. XoXoXo

I have real thick skin Natacsha! Lol. My wife didn't sign up for this and I do not blame her for her attitude. If I was her I'd have kicked me to the curb and moved on 5 years ago... And I'm not leaving either. After my parents divorced I swore I would never put my family through that....

[Karren H]

Karren,
Do you think that if you would have told her, rather than being found out , that she would look at this any differently?

I don't think it would have mattered how she found out.... It was the fact that I was hiding it for 3 decades.....

You know karen, you can't apologize forever. If you have done so sincerely already, then I think it is beyond just a trust issue.

Sure I can! Lol.

[Marleena]

It was the fact that I was hiding it for 3 decades.....

I think you missed your calling, you should have been in the CIA to keep Top Secret information Top Secret!

[Karren H]

Karren,

Try to get home earlier and try to spend more time with your wife reassuring her that you love her and the other shoe is not going to drop. Counseling could be beneficial. I know I went through a rough patch with my husband and it just took time for me to trust him again. It is something that can be rebuilt if your wife is willing to work at it with you.

good luck

More time? Funny but my boss and I joke that the only reason we haven't retired yet is because neither of us have figured out how to live more than two days in a row. With our wives. Lol. We spend a lot of time together. Probably way more than the average couple.

[Foxglove]

Karren, I've read and re-read your post, and I really wish I knew what to say to you. It sounds to me like she's being very harsh indeed. After all, it's quite clear you're trustworthy in every other way, so why dwell on this one thing? It's like she's got something on you and doesn't want to let it go.

I hope things get better. You deserve better than you're getting.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Karren H]

Karren, I've read and re-read your post, and I really wish I knew what to say to you. It sounds to me like she's being very harsh indeed. After all, it's quite clear you're trustworthy in every other way, so why dwell on this one thing? It's like she's got something on you and doesn't want to let it go.

I hope things get better. You deserve better than you're getting.

Best wishes, Annabelle

Harsh is relative.... She's 100% harsh, 1% of the time.... Overall its really not that bad.... But trust isn't something you can weight average... Kind of like breathing... If you breath 23 hours and 55 minutes a day that's a great average but at the end of the day your still dead! Lol.

And even though I wish it was better.... I'm fine with it... My fault its this way and I'll live with what ever consequences there are.... It could be a lot worse. We've seen that here time and time again...

[Sam-antha]

...

Just an update on what's going on. After what 6 years.... Nothing really.
She turns to me and says "you want to give me a hint on what's in here before I open it up?". Well.... I think its your grandmothers old typewriter....

Well, it could have been part of that old antique truck exhaust or a fossil of uncertain age.

Seriously, life's bridges all have a hump, some are gradual, others might be big enough to throw one off the bridge. Not this one tho', its been a long time and trust is the one thing that grows, or sofrt of regrows most of the time since it is based on love and understanding. It is minor that understanding is also based on knowledge, which is of necessity, often a missing element.

~Samm

[Sometimes Steffi]

You condemn yourself with your own words. The GG's have less issues with the dressing than they do with the constant excuses and lying and wondering whether the answer they are getting is the truth (see your comment regarding the panty hangers).

I know my lying is bad, and I'm trying to get past it. But you heard MandyGG; she'd prefer that it was an affair.

Some GG have less issues with the dressing than with the lying. My wife has more issues with the dressing.

Not to shift blame, but if my wife was more understanding about it, I could be more honest without fear of reprisals.

I had to chuckle when I read this, because it really it's not "just clothes", its clothes, wigs, breast forms, makeup, fingernails and/or hormones, etc.

There is sssssssssssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo much more then 'just clothes'

I agree. At one time it was just bras and panties, then just clothes, then the full presentation with makeup, fingernails, forms and wigs. But no hormones, and I don't expect to ever go there.

I agree Kelly. I wonder how those that say it's just clothes would feel if their wife or SO wore men's clothes complete with "packed" pants, jockey shorts, mustache and beard. It is so much mpore then clothes including the internal reasons as to why we dress.

Yeah, I understand. But being a CD myself, I'd love to see my wife in jockey shorts. In fact, she (sometimes) wears Jockey Elance for women and I (sometimes) wear Jockey Elance for men. In some styles, you need to look at the size tag to figure out which is mens and which is womens.

[MandyGG]

I know my lying is bad, and I'm trying to get past it. But you heard MandyGG; she'd prefer that it was an affair.

Some GG have less issues with the dressing than with the lying. My wife has more issues with the dressing.

Not to shift blame, but if my wife was more understanding about it, I could be more honest without fear of reprisals.

You are right, we would rather it be an affair because it means that it could end, and crossdressing is a lifetime commitment on the spouse. But, what you are failing to remember is that you are NOT having an affair, you are crossdressing, and when she DOES find out.... because she will!.... she is going to mad at you for lying about it! Then you are right back to square one!

[Sometimes Steffi]

You are right, we would rather it be an affair because it means that it could end, and crossdressing is a lifetime commitment on the spouse. But, what you are failing to remember is that you are NOT having an affair, you are crossdressing, and when she DOES find out.... because she will!.... she is going to mad at you for lying about it! Then you are right back to square one!

Oh she did find out about it. She came home early from church as I was packing my suit case to go out of town. I was so involved in what I was doing that I didn't hear her return, and she caught me red handed with some bras and panties that I was about to pack. And she did go ballistic. But I still don't know if she was more mad about the lies or the crossdressing.

So, when I say I'm still lying, its typically for the times when I want to go to a GNO, and I fear that she will go ballistic again. However, I did come clean about my desire to go to the Keystone (TG) Conference in March, and she allowed me to go. It was the first time I had been out dressed when she knew that I was out.

But she really didn't want to know any more than that I was going. She didn't ask to see my clothes. She didn't ask if I would be wearing forms (I did) or a wig (I brought 3). So, I think by not telling her the truth about everything, I am abiding by her wishes to not know everything. It's like she has some idea what's going on, but just keeps saying La La La La to avoid hearing the details.

But I'm working on a plan to obtain permission to go to a GNO.