Dressing in public

[Delila]

I am curious why we are all or at least most of us so afraid to dress in public. From what I have seen and while I have only been out twice and at halloween people hardly notice. The only time someone asked anything was when I came out of the men's room. I have seen numerous CDers out in public where people seem to treat them like they see nothingl. So i suppose my question is why are we all so afraid of what others think of us when we go out? I am slowly progressively working on eliminating this issue within myself. I would of course love to work towards more public acceptance for our way of life.

[Stephanie47]

I don't know where you live. And, I do not know if you're passable or blend in well. Legal protection does not confer acceptance by any stretch of the imagination. As long as you do not invade someone's space, people tolerate almost anything. Just because a woman (GG) smiles at you does not mean she'll date or marry you. Just because a guy does not beat you up does not mean he's going to be your drinking buddy. Just look at the angst on this site concerning spouses. Yes, there are some you look beyond the clothes, but, it takes a lot to get there. Acceptance and tolerance are not equal.

[Delila]

I don't know where you live. And, I do not know if you're passable or blend in well. Legal protection does not confer acceptance by any stretch of the imagination. As long as you do not invade someone's space, people tolerate almost anything. Just because a woman (GG) smiles at you does not mean she'll date or marry you. Just because a guy does not beat you up does not mean he's going to be your drinking buddy. Just look at the angst on this site concerning spouses. Yes, there are some you look beyond the clothes, but, it takes a lot to get there. Acceptance and tolerance are not equal.

The answer to some of your unkowns may help with my question. I live in Denver CO. I could never dream of passing no matter how hard I may try I am tall and have a very masculine body. I suppose the attitude behind my question is less about acceptance and more about tolerance. Why do we feel the need to be accetped? Why do we really care what those that don't accept us think? I would think there is a large difference between tolerance and abuse I mean to me tolerance is as good as acceptance to me. I just want to go out and not worry what people think however we all seem to bother ouselves about other people's comfort. I doubt Rosa Parks was thinking about the comfort of the others on that bus when she sat where she wanted. Strawman or not this feels like a reasonable comparison.

[ReineD]

Why do we feel the need to be accetped? Why do we really care what those that don't accept us think?

If you're planning on going out in places where you will not run into anyone you know, you'll be fine. I agree, who cares what people think whom you'll never see again. You'll find that most people will be polite and they will keep their opinions to themselves.

But, if you go out close to home and the rumor mill gets going, it might affect clients' opinions of you at your job (and potential business), your membership in any organization you may wish to join, the amount of social invites you'll receive from friends, neighbors, and acquaintances, your potential dating pool if you're single, and if you're married with kids, your daughter's friends may not be allowed to have sleepovers at your house any more, and some of your wife's friends might drop her too.

I hate it that it's like this, not everywhere, but in many if not most areas.

Edit BTW, my SO and I have been out in public for years (she's out on average twice per week) and we go everywhere: coffee shops, restaurants, galleries, movies, shopping ... but in the next town over, not in our own town. She does not want to deal with her peers at work knowing and I don't blame her. And there are some people in my life and her life that we don't want to disclose this to.

[Sandra1746]

When I dress in plain Fem mode in public I don't try to "pass", I just dress in what feels comfortable for the situation. The only acceptance I want from the public is the same that any minority asks, the right to be treated politely.

I have been fortunate so far in that clothing stores, malls, and restaurants have all provided polite and friendly service. If I encounter a neighbor they won't see anything different than what they'd see if they watched me in my yard, but they'd need binoculars for that. I wear a skirt in my yard but haven't ventured out in public in a skirt; yet.

We worry too much about "what will people think".
Sandra1746

[Noel Chimes]

The fear we have of dressing in public is somewhat real. You can read in the papers or on the news of attacks on transgendered women and cross dressers. Plus the fact that " BIG BROTHER" is everywhere now. Video cameras are all over the place and you never know who's watching. I mean how would you feel if you were out one evening just having a grand time, and walk into work the next day to find a pic of you all dolled up on your desk? Harassment Defineately. Embarassing? Yes.
All we ask for is to be who we are just like anyone else. Cross dressers and transgendered are people too.

[Sara Jessica]

The fear we have of dressing in public is somewhat real. You can read in the papers or on the news of attacks on transgendered women and cross dressers. Plus the fact that " BIG BROTHER" is everywhere now. Video cameras are all over the place and you never know who's watching. I mean how would you feel if you were out one evening just having a grand time, and walk into work the next day to find a pic of you all dolled up on your desk? Harassment Defineately. Embarassing? Yes.
All we ask for is to be who we are just like anyone else. Cross dressers and transgendered are people too.

There's a lot of paranoia in this little paragraph.

Attacks? Yes, anything can happen but most of the "attack" tales that hit the media are either in non-mainstream environments or involve some sort of extenuating circumstance. The places I go out are 100% mainstream and my only fear of violence has to do with the fear that any other woman might feel. And fear is too strong of a word in this case. It's better described as being aware of one's surroundings and don't go places alone where any other woman wouldn't go alone.

"Big Brother"??? Yep, that's the reality but fact of the matter is that if one is paranoid about this, they might as well resign themselves to never leaving home. How in the heck is random video surveillance footage going to find it's way to my desk at work???

Bottom line, going out is often a measure of risk versus reward where the rewards can be infinitely enriching and the risk has mostly to do with one's comfort level with the possibility of being outed in their day-to-day life. Such risk can be managed by planning one's outings "x" number of miles away from home/work/etc. with the magnitude of "x" being directly correlated with one's own aversion to risk.

[Cheryl T]

It's a scary thing at first. We all believe that everyone has some kind of instinct that will zero in on us and they will all be staring, pointing fingers and laughing. We are afraid of being seen as different in the eyes of society, even though we really aren't.
Once you go out a few times and realize that people are so busy with their little portion of the world and aren't paying close attention to you it will help you relax. Once you relax you can enjoy your outings and become part of that world more completely.
As I've said before, passing (or just being accepted for who you are) is not so much about how you look as it is your attitude. If you exude confidence you will be accepted.

[JessHaust]

Delila,
Your observations are all quite correct and reflect the experiences of myself and many others here. The thing you need understand about this site and it's members is that we are a very large group with a wide range of positions on this matter. If I were to generalize, I would try and place everyone in one of 3 categories.
1. The group you, and I are in. We go out and seek public exposure, we weigh the risks of fear vs reward and find that for ourselves the rewards are always much greater than the fear. Your thread is an affirmation of this and you have discovered that those fears were always just self imposed.
2. This group is a less confrontational group, but not due to any fear, they just don't have the desires the we do. If My wife was on this site she would be in this group. For years after we were married I would come across a situation that looked like fun and would suggest we both go do whatever it was. 'No' she would say, 'But you go ahead'. I took this as she was afraid for some unknown reason. But eventually I came to realize that she was not afraid, she just was not interested. Not everybody has the same desires.
3. This group is the truly paranoid. It is human nature that some people are afraid, they have lived their life that way and it has served them well. The chance that any fear might be true prevents them from trying anything.
Just keep posting your adventures, those that need to hear them will listen. Don't ask the others why, they have their reasons.

[Contessa]

I have answered this type of post before maybe it didn't reach all. There are only two types of people. So who are these people afraid of themselves(other men) or GG's(women). Men don't like to believe that the person they seem to think is good looking is a man. And women may think that how can he believe he is better than me. It is society values that make up most peoples values. Being afraid to go out in public is inside of you, some don't feel they look good enough. If you're a man in a dress you are a man in a dress. If you smile people know you know who and what you are. I am not afraid and have been out in the city I live in. Peopler know at work I told them. I have rode the bus and train en femme and walk around like I figure any other woman would. It is too much fun. I have lost a lot of my fears even others that have nothing to do with crossdressing. But believe this my own quote "Never more naked than when I'm crossdressed".

[Ressie]

I don't quite have the desire to dress in public. I've thought about it, but the desire hasn't hit me. If I did step out, it would be in another town as Reine mentioned. I have friends, family, potential clients and acquaintances that don't need to know that I'm a crossdresser.

Also, it's very rare that I spot a crossdresser in public, in my area. I'm sure there are a few, but it's rare for me to notice any (even though I try to spot them). I saw a woman in a dress last night that walked like a guy, but she was a GG!

[PretzelGirl]

But, if you go out close to home and the rumor mill gets going, it might affect clients' opinions of you at your job (and potential business), your membership in any organization you may wish to join, the amount of social invites you'll receive from friends, neighbors, and acquaintances, your potential dating pool if you're single, and if you're married with kids, your daughter's friends may not be allowed to have sleepovers at your house any more, and some of your wife's friends might drop her too.

Reine, I fully agree with the outlook on a job. No matter how relaxed many of us may be, the job specter always looms above us.

But to change an old saying, I wouldn't want to be a member of an organization that won't have me. If I went to the group to be a member and someone said "He dresses in woman's clothes" and then they don't offer me membership, they just did me a favor. I don't want to socialize with them anyway.

The same for friends as they wouldn't really be my friends if they rejected me for this. And I emphatically say very much so for the dating pool. We talk about telling before marriage or talk about relationship issues, so a potential partner rejecting me early would probably be a relief (although painful). Better earlier than later.

[Beverley Sims]

I was interested in Reine's comment about dressed close to home or work.
These are hazards that I avoid.
I have only been on the board about 6 months and Reine 5 years.
I like the comfort of anonymity that this board provides and when I see long time posters it helps my comfort zone immensley
Back to the thread...
When out and dressed I feel the whole world is revolving around me and I am center stage. Hence the heightened fear.
It is apparently not like this and as others have said, "You have to overcome your fears."
Each day does bring more confidence but I have been into it for years now and I still get aprehensive moments.
When I looked like a hot chick years ago the world was not as accepting yet it was probably because
I was young and LESS WISER.

[JessHaust]

Rene & Sue,
You might want to review some of Jackie Bee's posts.

[Nikki A.]

Denver seems to be a very tolerant city in my limited experience there. I do dress publicly but I do tend to dress & shop a bit further from home with a few exceptions. I don't dress near home because of work issues and to avoid my any problems with my kids and their friends (although they are now young adults). There are coworkers who know of my dressing and have been out with me but in general I want to keep it separate.
I have not had a problem and have been treated with courtesy whereever I have gone, whether alone or with others.

[Karren H]

Some people just care what other people think. And what the implications could be. Its just the way they are wired. Nothing wrong with that imho.

[GinaM]

I just started going out about a month or so ago and have only been out a few times. The first time was far away from home at a hotel and I was scared crapless to say the least. It took me about an hour and a half just to get into the hall and I made a few passes and then finally left the hotel and it was awesome. This coming Friday I have another FULL day/evening planned and will do everything dressed but it will be VERY far from home so no issues of running into someone I know. I'm nervous about what others will do and/or say and I prob. won't go anywhere like the mall or anything but just some short bursts where I'm outside and that's it. I'm hoping I can build the courage to be out and about for a few hours but it is doubtful I will. Only time will tell. I can certainly take care of myself physically but I def. don't want to have to do so. I'm thinking people are mostly tolerant but I do remember as a teenager there was a CD in our neighborhood and my friends would harass her anytime they saw her.

[Barbara Ella]

From the first moment we begin crossdressing we "know" it is wrong. We keep it hidden, many for years. Many purge over and over. These are the feelings that are ingrained on out psyche by society. We all have them to one extent or another.

Jess is now an out and about girl. i would ask her to confirm that she did not, most likely, start going out the first time she donned female attire. She shows how things develop, and it must be recognized that these developments come at different rates for different people. Changes only come as your dressing chips away at society's improperly imposed stigmas, and the posts here definitely help chip away at those.

We all know and accept that people really do not pay much attention, but that reallly isnt the important consideration. It is the mental balance we have achieved relative to the fear of the stigma and the realization that it is acceptable to go out. Some never gain this. Others gain it quickly. What is important is to be happy and enjoying what you are doing at the moment, not worrying about what you might do in the future.

One thing that must be guarded is the societal situation you are in, with job, friends, etc. Many of them accept and live by the social stigma dogma, just be safe and careful, but dont be afraid just cautious.

I am not an old hat at going out, but i feel I have developed the desire to go out rather quickly, and have been out 3 times and had interactions with people while out. I do feel that by going out and being positive it does help our acceptance by the public, even if in just tiny bits.

Barbara

[Roberta Marie]

I have been going out for a few years now, and have had very few issues. Most of my outings have been 20 minutes or more from home, mainly because my wife and kids (although my wife supports me and our 5 adult kids know and most support me) are not ready for me to be out in our town. I've had 3 dealings with law enforcement, once when I stopped to assist at an accident, once when I was involved in an accident (the other car blew a light), and once when I was speeding (got a warning), and the cops in all cases were professional and never mentioned my gender or how I was dressed. I have been to church several times dressed, this is the only place other than home where people know me as both Rob and Bobbi. I regularly go to the grocery store and mall dressed. I've been on 2 cruises dressed, one a Dignity cruise, the second just a regular cruise, dressed the entire time on the ship.

In all of my adventures, I've felt threatened only once. I responded in the same manner that I've taught my daughters to respond. I went into a very public place with my c-phone in hand ready to dial 911. I stayed in this very public place (a fabric store) until the perceived threat had left the area, and found 2 patterns, some lovely fabric, and nice beads in the meantime.

Most of my interactions with people have been positive, usually once they get past the "novelty" they are supportive.

As has been stated above, it's been my experience that most people are to busy with their own worlds to notice the guy in a skirt. Most of those that do notice don't care. Most of those that do care, care in a positive way. It's my opinion that if you act like you belong someplace you will be accepted as belonging there. If you skulk around looking guilty and out of place, you will be treated with suspicion.

[jennifer24]

Very well said Roberta, most people are so caught up in there own world that they dont even take a 2nd look, long as you are confident in how you feel and dress for where you are going, meaning dont dress like a 2$$$ ho if you just going to the grocery store. I will say I have been going out for years now and after finally taking that 1st step out it as got alot easier. 1 thing though girls is to always be aware of your surroundings.

[KendraCD2012]

the last week of june, i'm actually going to las vegas and at least 2 of the days i'm planning to go out dressed, I have a black and lace dress ordered from hot topic that i'm wearing the first day but its more of a dress that u'd see in a girl wear in clubs so that is the purpose for me with it. the second day i dress i'm going to actually buy me a $89 denim skirt from dillard's and bring a top i have that i'd like to wear with it. now i know my friend i am out to and he has said he's not sure how comfortable he'll be with me while dressed because it is the first time he's seeing me in a dress or even a skirt. He's said he is afraid ppl (visitor's mostly), will look at him as being gay because he's with me but I'm not gay and don't plan to be all over him while i'm dressed. of course he is bisexual so he may just feel uncomfortable because he's not out of the closet yet. I've also been to pride festivals in a town near me and really people just walk passed me and never say anything to me. now i have had a lady tell me that she had the same red tights i had on at the time at home lol.

[ReineD]

But to change an old saying, I wouldn't want to be a member of an organization that won't have me. If I went to the group to be a member and someone said "He dresses in woman's clothes" and then they don't offer me membership, they just did me a favor. I don't want to socialize with them anyway.

The same for friends as they wouldn't really be my friends if they rejected me for this. And I emphatically say very much so for the dating pool. We talk about telling before marriage or talk about relationship issues, so a potential partner rejecting me early would probably be a relief (although painful). Better earlier than later.

I agree with you fully!

But, we need to remember that different people have different lifestyles, different needs. I know people who are involved in many organizations, be they social, charitable, political, or professional. They're just very active people and without getting into what they get from all these activities, it's safe to say these activities are important to them. There are people who thrive on having huge social circles and being a member of the golf club or the Country Club or whatever. They are the small town business men, lawyers, doctors, etc who together with their wives enjoy the dances, the parties, and the opportunities to network for professional reasons.

These are the people who need to consider that their standing in their communities or organizations they wish to be involved in (for whatever reason) may be affected by being outed. Obviously the people who prefer a quieter lifestyle and who have a small number of friends won't have the same concerns.

As to dating, honestly before having developed feelings for my SO I was ignorant enough about what it means to be gender variant, that if she had told me from the get go I likely would not have been interested in pursuing the relationship. But, I did get to know him and I fell for him so that when our relationship deepened and she told me about herself, I was very much interested in learning more. Not having the entire community you live in know that you're a CDer increases your dating pool significantly, enough to have more chances of finding that person who will find you interesting enough to also want to learn more.

[Janet77]

Speaking for myself, I am a very private person and I prefer to do my dressing behind closed doors. It might be fun to go out some time in the future, but for now, I am happy to dress at home or in hotel rooms when I travel.

[Roberta Marie]

the last week of june, i'm actually going to las vegas and at least 2 of the days i'm planning to go out dressed, I have a black and lace dress ordered from hot topic that i'm wearing the first day but its more of a dress that u'd see in a girl wear in clubs so that is the purpose for me with it. the second day i dress i'm going to actually buy me a $89 denim skirt from dillard's and bring a top i have that i'd like to wear with it. now i know my friend i am out to and he has said he's not sure how comfortable he'll be with me while dressed because it is the first time he's seeing me in a dress or even a skirt. He's said he is afraid ppl (visitor's mostly), will look at him as being gay because he's with me but I'm not gay and don't plan to be all over him while i'm dressed. of course he is bisexual so he may just feel uncomfortable because he's not out of the closet yet. I've also been to pride festivals in a town near me and really people just walk passed me and never say anything to me. now i have had a lady tell me that she had the same red tights i had on at the time at home lol.

Twice I've been to Vegas on business, and dressed every day I was there when I wasn't in meetings. Vegas is a great place for a not so experienced crossdresser. On my first trip there I went to a MAC store and had a makeup lesson. One of the best things I've ever done.

As far as your friend being afraid of being thought to be gay, why should he care what someone that he does not know and that does not know him, and that he will never see after they pass on the street, think?

[KendraCD2012]

good question about my friend roberta, hell i don't know, my friend who is married is all ok with it and he told me that him and his wife would go to a pride festival with me and be there for me. now, i gotta ask, when u went out to the MAC store, first of all, where is it located because i've been there before but can't remembe where things like that were and if its in Fashion Show Mall, i'm going to feel dumb asking lol. secondly, i have make up that i'm taking with me but i don't know if its ok to have it in the carry-on bag or not. oh and third, does the makeup lesson's cost money and do u remember how much it was roberta? i'm very excited about dressing in vegas this year for a couple of days also. by the way to understand my friend roberta, i actually told him how vegas is supposed to be the best place for crossdressers and he yeah he acts as if vegas is his town and he knows that they people won't understand it and will look at u differently.