To me it's acceptance, even though true acceptance seems light years away.
Crossdressers are the little t. in LGBT. Enjoy this thrill ride anyway....dana
To me it's acceptance, even though true acceptance seems light years away.
Crossdressers are the little t. in LGBT. Enjoy this thrill ride anyway....dana
Pride Month is for people who are proud to be who they are. Not people who are ashamed and closeted. Most of the closet cases will be openly "disgusted" by pride parades and such, so that nobody would suspect that they are actually accepting of the LGBT community. Oh no, you can't be accepting and supportive, or somebody might automatically think you're wearing panties.
Pondering this issue makes me feel as tho my head is going to explode, so I am just going to slowly back away from my keyb.............................................. ...
I believe therefore I can [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I couldn't disagree with you more. Whether I want to be in the closet or in the open or flaunting my CDing doesn't mean I can't be supportive of LGBT rights. Even if I considered myself severely closeted ( which I do not ) I am not ashamed of who I am or what I want to do.Originally Posted by Badtranny
For Pride month to really be a success and for there to be LGBT rights it doesn't just have to matter to the people who are "proud" as you put it, but everyone. Once we have a situation where even people who are not part of the LGBT community (or even know someone in the LGBT community) care about LGBT rights then we will truly have equality.
It means whatever you want it to mean. I myself dont carry around a rainbow flag or have gay pride sticker on my car. I am not exactly ashamed of being a crossdresser though. People should be proud no matter the month.
New facebook page feel free to add me as a friend. http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn...00003349942987
That remains to be seen ;-)
Well you agree with me right there. If it weren't for the support of "straight" people than there would be no parades. My point was about NOT being supportive. I basically have an ongoing bone to pick with the conservative types that inhabit this forum yet don't support us in the real world.Whether I want to be in the closet or in the open or flaunting my CDing doesn't mean I can't be supportive of LGBT rights.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been openly gay since 2006 and I've never been to a parade much less been IN one. The point of pride isn't a parade, it's pride. It's about being proud that your are living YOUR life. Homosexuals no longer live in fear of coming out in most places. They can be themselves and actually be free to follow their heart. Pride is a celebration of that freedom. People who refuse to come out and live an authentic life don't get to experience that pride. I have had to come out TWICE in my life. Once as gay, and then a second time as trans a few years later. I am not proud to be trans as I had very little to do with it. I am proud however that I was able to face it and live the life I want to live without shame and fear holding me back. Some people have very good reasons for staying closeted and that's perfectly understandable, but there are NO good reasons for not supporting your community because you are afraid someone might think you are one of "them".For Pride month to really be a success and for there to be LGBT rights it doesn't just have to matter to the people who are "proud" as you put it, but everyone. Once we have a situation where even people who are not part of the LGBT community (or even know someone in the LGBT community) care about LGBT rights then we will truly have equality.
I am NOT an advocate for coming out at all costs, but I have no tolerance for those that want the fellowship of our LGBT community but refuse to support us as humans with the same inalienable human rights. I have wonderful straight friends of course but these guys are REAL men and they didn't bat an eye about being seen with me back when I was an obvious CD or later when I looked like a femmy gay guy. They likely won't go to any parades, but their support came in real actions right up close. They didn't care what people thought because they were confident in who they are. Likewise my "pride parade" is every day that I get up and go to work as an obviously transitioning TS. Everybody knows, there is nothing I can do about it, but I face the world everyday ...and I'm proud of that.
It's always great to hear the opinions of the open minded. "The closet cases!" Couldn't you think of a more pejorative term for people who prefer to shun the limelight? I thought Pride was about people being free to be who they are and show if they wish, not as an obligation. Such comments as these clearly show the author does not embrace fully the message they purport to espouse. Maybe you too, have issues to consider?
One of my sons, openly gay and currently working in America, has been on UK Pride since the age of 16 and is supported and loved by all of his family, so your generalising is off target.
Dana, have a great time, but as you say, true acceptance seems light years away. Sadly, even amongst our own forum.
Rebecca
Nope, I think closet case is pejorative enough to make the point.
Your entire response doesn't seem to apply to my post at all. Your son sounds like a wonderful young man who deserves to feel proud of his courage to come out at such a young age and live his life openly, pride is not for closet cases to act proud while they remain anonymous. Pride celebrations are for people who are PROUD of who they are. How is this even an argument?One of my sons, openly gay and currently working in America, has been on UK Pride since the age of 16 and is supported and loved by all of his family, so your generalising is off target.
You talk of acceptance, but only on your terms, ......makes you small minded then, which ever way you cut it!
What are you even talking about?
Doesn't mean anything to me. The Confucian in me finds little to be proud of.
I will state though, that having IRL friends might change that.
As much as we are still considered deviants, here, try having a Pride parade in a Muslim country.
Pride is a big awesome fantastic party? Why not be involved? My grandma and I joined in the pride parade in Victoria once! You don't automatically end up gay because you were around gay people. It's not contagious or anything.
I've tried staying out of this because it's potentially a minefield, but I agree with Melissa. Part of the point is pride itself, the other is hypocrisy.
Pride events can be supported, whatever that means, but the real point is celebrating actually living what you are, openly, without fear, with assertion. There are degrees of this, including degrees of legitimate privacy very applicable to many people's lives. But the fact is that most in the forum are deeply closeted out of fear, excluding even their spouses. There's no pride in that - none at all, except a false pride in protecting an image of what you are not. And that's the source of the syndrome Melissa described that *some* do indeed have. The separation from the LGBT community is even represented in institutionalized form in organizations like Tri-Ess.
I've lived my share of this hypocrisy and I've felt the shame at what I am that kept me in the closet for decades. I have yet to fully reveal who I am to the minimum necessary for me to claim authenticity. Happily, I can claim support for rights through most of my life, and I do speak up, often quickly and sharply, when hateful speech aimed at LGBT people starts.
Compartmentalized thinking, self-defensive behavior, and exaggerated compensating mechanisms characterize people across the entire transgender spectrum. The fact that it OFTEN manifests as anti-gay or anti-trans attitudes really shouldn't surprise anyone or be controversial - it's commented on sufficiently in the psych literature.
It doesn't have to be overt, either. Most of the transsexuals here can attest to the fact that part of the psychological struggle in coming to accept their transsexuality is dealing with their own transphobia ... even though they thought of themselves as tolerant and supportive. In turn, many crossdressers are deeply disturbed by any discussion of bi or homosexual thinking in connection with crossdressing because of internalized homophobia.
Pride is open pride. Support is genuine support, not assent, not lip service. The real-world support implications from the psychological fallout seriously affects people's lives. I know everyone reading this knows that. I wonder if they realize how their (and my) justifications contribute to that.
Pride indeed.
Lea
I may be living an inauthentic life, but I openly support LGBT rights AND I always vote NDP.
Does that count?
I remember a dad of one of the girls on my daughter's softball team. The girls must have been about 8 or 9 and mine had been playing for a few years. He said this was her last year in softball. He was taking her out because, "--everyone knows all them older softball girls r gay". And, he didn't want his daughter to be gay! I bit my tongue real hard during that remark!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I think this is one of the points here. When someone says something that stupid, and concerning the kids they are raising, I will not be little polite pc Dad and keep my mouth shut. That type of bigotry and stupidity from a parent is dangerous to that child. I'm not out to everyone but my views are the same whether I'm a CD or some random straight guy. I don't keep them to myself and I won't let the close minded spout off in public and expect to get treated like "normal" people. Hate in any form should be confronted so that they know that it's wrong.
And I have to agree with most everything Melissa has posted. Yeah...you can be private, and closeted, and not OUT all you want. Her point was that it was hypocritical to not find a way to support the rights for others. Attend the parade or don't. Try correcting some friend when they make a bigoted comment. Vote for someone who is for ALL people and not just the people who look, act, and talk like them. It's not always about YOU. Sometimes it's about everyone else.
Last edited by Sally24; 06-03-2012 at 01:40 PM.
Sally
Rebecca,It's always great to hear the opinions of the open minded. "The closet cases!" Couldn't you think of a more pejorative term for people who prefer to shun the limelight? I thought Pride was about people being free to be who they are and show if they wish, not as an obligation. Such comments as these clearly show the author does not embrace fully the message they purport to espouse. Maybe you too, have issues to consider?
One of my sons, openly gay and currently working in America, has been on UK Pride since the age of 16 and is supported and loved by all of his family, so your generalising is off target.
Dana, have a great time, but as you say, true acceptance seems light years away. Sadly, even amongst our own forum.
Rebecca
I get from your post that you openly support LGBT rights, despite the fact that as a crossdresser you remain entirely private?
Here's how I see it - if dressing is something that you are happiest just doing at home, and that it doesn't make you feel ashamed to think of someone else seeing you, if you accept who you yourself are and that dressing makes you feel happy, not guilty - that's totally okay. Just because a 'closet' is in a 'bedroom' doesn't mean someone who stays in the bedroom (or, heck, the living room?) is going to have to stay in the ashamed little closet. In fact, if a person's cross dressing is entirely sexual in nature, or all they want to do is wear panties, I don't need/want to know about it because I expect you to respect my privacy and in turn I respect yours.
However, if you're ashamed of who you are and can't accept yourself, you are more likely to try and hide it (and go overboard in hiding it by being openly homophobic or transphobic.) It's those people who are ashamed of who they are, who are so stuck inside their tiny, "OMG, everyone will judge me and hate me and I'm a horrible person and not a real man because I like to be feminine sometimes! No one must suspect!" closets who are not free to acknowledge their true selves whom I think Melissa is referring to as "closet cases."
FWIW, I think that absolutely everyone can - and SHOULD - go to Pride, be out there, be happy and learn that it's not a big, scary, judging-other-people event. Far from it. It's a big, sparkly, fun, open-minded party and the more people out physically showing their support for openess in the community (however they are dressed), the better!
Like I had posted before, I went with my Grandma once. She's a spunky and awesome 84 year old who dresses a bit like the Queen and is spry like she was fifteen or twenty years younger, although the last time my brother and his wife visited she had a little bit of trouble with getting in and out of their lifted Jeep. She's also a conservative old British Northerner who can be kind of racist sometimes, and kind of prudish sometimes - so when she suggested that we go to Pride (I had been kind of planning to go on my own, and was trying to figure out how to let her know I was going to leave her on her own for the day) I was a little surprised, and worried that the sort of PDA that I'd seen at my hometown Pride festival would happen and totally disgust her. It didn't, though, and we had an absolute blast watching the parade! Every. Single. political candidate in the region had a float and was handing out stuff, as was every big touristy destination, like Butchardt's Gardens and the local castle - clearly they think openly accepting the GLBT dollar is good for business!) we joined in the end of it and danced to the festival grounds where we wandered around the booths, which were a mixture between vendors, local businesses like the radio station giving out freebies and information - there was a really great booth on opting in to sexual acts and the 'yes means yes' movement that I can remember, and a couple of booths where there was information about the legal status of homosexuality around the world - including the places where being openly gay is a crime punishable by death. It was really moving - because NO ONE should be put to death because of who they love.
When we were wandering (and not just giggling at the rainbow coloured penis shaped lollipops) I got a picture of my grandma with a burlesque group. There was a hairy leather biker guy in a skirt who we kept seeing, and although I wanted to go and say hi and start talking to that fellow, he kind of freaked out my grandma because she thought he looked dangerous and talking to him might get him mad. We watched a drag queen and a drag king (both of whom my grandma was CONVINCED were actually the gender they were presenting, and I had to explain that it wasn't the case and they didn't just have really slickly dressed up performers - I'm not sure she ever really believed me about the drag king), then a stripping burlesque show where we got a bit more of an eyeful than I think they had intended, as one of the girls' pasties fell off! (The burlesque and drag performers where in a beer garden, so minors weren't exposed to the exposures.)
Anyway, my point is that it was a lot of fun, I learned stuff as did my Grandma, and nothing bad or ugly happened because we were there and we got to see how really integrated into the whole fabric of the city the GLBTTQQIA community really is - and that the Pride community truly is a part of the best of the whole community.
Even if you're not openly dressing, or running a booth, or marching in the parade - if you are able to, please do go to a Pride event. Even just to see what it's all about. These events are big, they're more stable every year, and if you have to tell your family that you're just curious and you want to see what the big deal all is because you heard they were expecting XXXXX people this year and surely there aren't THAT many gays in your city so let's go to this family friendly bit in the park, well, getting there is half the fun, right?
I would love to participate, but many of the media that will be shooting the event are friends. Too big a risk.
Went to the pride parade here in Vancouver for the first time ever last year. I was very excited to watch, having come from Alberta and recently coming out as a CD to my wife (she is bi, and active as a support in the community). I didn't see a very big "T" community though. Trouble is, for those who have transitioned, or for those who are very "passable", its hard to show a presence. I was quite disappointed to be honest.
am i right?
kind of ironic there. There should be a better way to visually represent in a parade?? any thoughts?
Candice
I think the point that she is making is the same one that I was making. I was very offended not just for myself, but for a whole group of people here by your comment below.
You presume that people that are closeted should be disgusted and I don't know why you would say that or even know that fact. How can you possibly know what all these people are thinking? People come to this site for support and affirmation, not to get slammed.
I feel that the pride parades are only a symbol of a movement that everyone here should be able to support. This place is about tolerance and acceptance.
You say in your second post about me that we are in agreement - and we are about LGBT rights. My point is that you are doing a very bad job making that point and are alienating people in the process.
The original premise of this thread was whether crossdressers should care about Pride Parades and what they represent. I think the answer should be yes, you may not march or maybe not even attend, but you should be able to see that it is the right thing to do is be supportive especially at this time in history.
Holy moly, I don't presume they SHOULD be disgusted. I presumed they WOULD be openly disgusted so they could continue to shield themselves from suspicion. I don't know if you've been paying attention but there is a huge HUGE conservative contingent on this board and many of them have admitted over the years to acting like they're against "gay rights" so their friends don't ask any questions. Even more of them say one thing here but actually vote AGAINST us in the political arena. Isn't it reasonable to assume that at least some closeted people might be ashamed of who they are, or at the very least not proud of it? I'm almost shocked into submission (almost) that this is even arguable.
well duh, but my whole point is there are some here who do NOT support things like pride parades. They want the fellowship (this forum) but won't publicly support our rights because they're afraid it would OUT them from where? ...yes the closet.I feel that the pride parades are only a symbol of a movement that everyone here should be able to support.
well that's nothing new, good grief I call myself BadTranny, alienating people is practically my hobbyMy point is that you are doing a very bad job making that point and are alienating people in the process.
Hell I think the answer should be yes too. The sad reality is it isn't. I may or may not attend any of the gazillion pride events around the beautiful SF Bay, but I'm on the front lines everyday living my life right out in the open. I deal with people every single day who don't approve of my "lifestyle" and that's fine, but I would at least expect those that frequent a forum like this to be doing the right things and voting the right way out in the real world. Pride is not just a party, it's a celebration of the courage to live an authentic life and there are those on this very forum who would not openly support us because they are afraid of the association.The original premise of this thread was whether crossdressers should care about Pride Parades and what they represent. I think the answer should be yes, you may not march or maybe not even attend, but you should be able to see that it is the right thing to do is be supportive especially at this time in history.
I don't know how much clearer I can be.
Keep it light! Great weather[usually],and many friends and new friends for a day outside.Seems like fun to me..What part of this sounds bad?
I wish Pride Month was in the fall! I don't like Summer and I hate baking in the Sun for hours just to have fun.
I haven't been to a Pride Parade since I was 22 just because I absolutely dread being in the Sun! I go to after Pride parties at night though!
Very good idea Michelle same here.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................
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