The elephant in MY room is starting to make some noise

[Sara Jessica]

I'll make this as quick as I can, we shall see how successful am.

Those who know me in these pages understand that I have pushed many limits when it comes to minor body modifications (©VM ) and this has fed into my elephant in the room theory about how others perceive these things. For example...

Shave the legs, hmmm, he does ride a road bike you know. Does everyone notice? Sure. Anyone really say anything, not so much.

Wax the eyebrows, things kind of begin and end with a hmmm. Have been called out on this once. People would have to be blind not to notice that I've done something here.

Facial hair removal via electrolysis. We're doing a gradual clearing and at this point, the trees are non-existent on the entire cheeks and noticeably less-dense about the goatee area. Anyone else notice? Not so sure but then again, I do tweeze the rest when I go out so there is zero growth or shadow for about a week thereafter. That has to look a bit odd.

Put all these together and people could conceivably come to some sort of TG conclusion but i'd be paranoid to suggest that this would be likely. The elephant is in the room but she's still being good.

Now add the long hair. I'm here to say all bets are off at this time. I've said before, the elephant in my room has started to sing some show tunes. I'm thinking others are starting to hear her melody.

Case in point, meeting up with some friends a few weeks ago. I was the last to arrive when one of them greets me with "hey birthday girl". This is one of my best friends and I've shrugged off several similar comments in the recent past. This was simply another one.

The latest, was at a nearby restaurant bar watching game 6 of Kings vs. Devils (painful for moi given that I'm a Ducks fan). Was with another one of my best friends who I have written about in the past (ie - calling me out on my eyebrows, saying "your daddy smells like a girl", etc.). He is bugging me to get onto Facebook (guy mode, of course) of which I have no interest (I do have a "Sara" account set up that I've done little to nothing with). He says the other day "don't worry, no one will find out you're a crossdresser by going on Facebook".

My reply, "you promise?".

Lame but it was the best I could do.

I've promised myself of late that if any of my close friends were to call me out on this TG thing, that I would be honest in coming clean. Thing is, he missed the mark ever-so-slightly by using the term crossdresser so I'm keeping to my promise by not educating him on the nuances of the TG spectrum. Still, I'm quite sure he is seeing and hearing my elephant loud and clear at this point, probably waiting until I bite on one of his jabs. Someday I may do so but out of respect for my wife who desires zero disclosure to others, I will not go there until he hits the bullseye, so to speak.

I've had in mind to share this tale but there is a very important reason why I'm doing so now. Tis the season for some in these pages to let that body fur grow back and the advice is oft given that no one will notice, just stay smooth. This is not true. People do notice these things. The average dude does not sport smooth legs. But these days, people process it and with enough sporting reasons out there for smooth legs along with the modest metrosexual trend. They are conditioned to think little or nothing of it. But my tale is a lesson for those who choose to keep their TG nature bottled up away from those closest to them, keep piling the mods on as I have done and your elephant may be hard to keep quiet as well. It all depends on what your own personal situation is, how much you want out there.

[PretzelGirl]

I would say that the elephant is sitting on your friend at this point. I do like your rule about telling. I have a similar one that if I am busted in sight or word, then I will admit it. The tap dancing route has its own pitfalls and I don't want to go there. I did do it once and have felt guilty since. And someone else has mentioned my elephant in the room to me recently......

But people do realize something is up with the changes. The part is whether they know enough to do the math. Some people just aren't going to suspect this because it isn't in the forefront of their mind. And you have that extra barrier of the agreement with your wife. That does bring up a conflict. What if your best friend hit the mark closer and asked if you were TG? Now if you admit it, you go against your wife's wishes. That can be a tough thing to work through. When we choose to push things forward, we do cause ourselves these dilemmas that we need to think about in advance.

[Sara Jessica]

Great points Sue. Seems our elephants know one another!!!

I would say that the elephant is sitting on your friend at this point.

D'ya think???

She's not being a very nice elephant.

But people do realize something is up with the changes. The part is whether they know enough to do the math.

Those who end up doing the math end sometimes end up solving the equation without knowing how they got there.

What if your best friend hit the mark closer and asked if you were TG? Now if you admit it, you go against your wife's wishes. That can be a tough thing to work through. When we choose to push things forward, we do cause ourselves these dilemmas that we need to think about in advance.

Good question. He's never going to hit the mark but if he were to simply ask a question instead of blurting out these smart-ass comments, I would be in a position to answer...truthfully.

I brought up the eyebrow comment to my wife after it happened. She brushed it off but I told her at that time that if anyone calls me out on it, I would be honest with them.

[Soriya]

But people do realize something is up with the changes. The part is whether they know enough to do the math.

This is true with any change people notice. The fact is though, people tend to go with their own math whether they are right or wrong. That is society today. If your not comfortable telling your friends, then don't. There is nothing wrong with shaving your legs or even plucking your eyebrows even if your not a TG of any kind. What about people who do these things simply because they like it? I started shaving all my body hair after a fitness contest years ago to show more muscle definition and when I did, I liked more that way thus I kept it and now it's a plus since I started dressing again. The only thing I don't shave regularly is my legs but simply because it's a pain. Electrolysis on your facial hair? So what. I have thought about it a few times myself and not for TG reasons but simply because it's a pain in the neck sometimes, not to mention I am blessed with good genes and when clean shaven, I look 10 years younger. I have no desire to ever grow any facial hair. Tried it a few times but ehh, not for me.

This is all up to you of course. If you are planning on going full time at some point then sure, you won't be able to avoid the disclosure at some point but if your not and really don't want to disclose your TG side, then don't. The elephant in the room in any case is always on somebody else, not you, for any changes you make to your image whether it's TG related or not. People are just naturally curious, especially if it relates to something they wouldn't do for themselves thus they don't understand.

[gonegirl]

Dear Sara,

I agree with you that people do notice things eventually. I am heading toward a similar situation, a day of reckoning if you will, as I shape my brows, shave my legs, and grow my hair long. The latter brings back good memories of my skateboarder punk days many years ago

I just wanted to say that I hope everything works out well for you and thanks for sharing this with the forum. Please let us know how things progress. Remember, a problem shared is a problem halved.

McKenzie

[docrobbysherry]

Some folks r just more observant than others, Sara. My ex is VERY observant! When she's coming by, I'm careful not to leave ANYTHING to do with Sherry out!

My daughter who lives with me part ISN'T! She completely clueless and self absorbed. Normally, those r great sources of friction between us. But, it works for Sherry! My daughter has bumped into our elephant a couple of times.

She said, "Where'd this dam thing come from? Well, it's NOT mine and I'm NOT cleaning up after it!" WHEW!

[Joann Smith]

the Elephant in my room is so damm big i do not know how anyone can not notice it ....yet nothing has been said ...not sure what to make of that ...But I do know that if any ones has the balls to confront me my response will be

"Damm what took you so long to ask!"

Joann

[Beverley Sims]

I have admitted it on a couple of occasions and it was passed over as a joke and too unbelievable to be true.

[Sara Jessica]

This is true with any change people notice. The fact is though, people tend to go with their own math whether they are right or wrong. That is society today. If your not comfortable telling your friends, then don't. There is nothing wrong with shaving your legs or even plucking your eyebrows even if your not a TG of any kind. What about people who do these things simply because they like it? I started shaving all my body hair after a fitness contest years ago to show more muscle definition and when I did, I liked more that way thus I kept it and now it's a plus since I started dressing again. The only thing I don't shave regularly is my legs but simply because it's a pain. Electrolysis on your facial hair? So what. I have thought about it a few times myself and not for TG reasons but simply because it's a pain in the neck sometimes, not to mention I am blessed with good genes and when clean shaven, I look 10 years younger. I have no desire to ever grow any facial hair. Tried it a few times but ehh, not for me.

This is all up to you of course. If you are planning on going full time at some point then sure, you won't be able to avoid the disclosure at some point but if your not and really don't want to disclose your TG side, then don't. The elephant in the room in any case is always on somebody else, not you, for any changes you make to your image whether it's TG related or not. People are just naturally curious, especially if it relates to something they wouldn't do for themselves thus they don't understand.

Outstanding advice Soriya. It serves to remind me of the obvious, that I'm under NO OBLIGATION to disclose ANYTHING if I don't want to. My appearance is my business and what others perceive and think is theirs.

Still, it will be an interesting day when I do get specifically called out. If this is pulled in a "Jeopardy" fashion (phrased in the form of a question), then I do think I'll stick to my plan and let honesty prevail.

I had to think of your friend saying it was basically ok to be a crossdresser (even if not the right terminology) means he is one himself, know someone who is (other than yourself) or an admirer! Obviously I have no way of knowing but it did make me wonder because of his statement. I do think we often give off signals, without us being aware we do so, that those being observant or more aware of certain traits for whatever reason, will pick up. In any case I hope it works out to your favor!

Dana

I know that it's hard to peg a person for what they might do when no one else is looking. For example, if it were to come out to one of my friends that I am TG, there'd be no real shock in that. After all, just look at my appearance. Yet with this particular friend, I would be absolutely floored if he were any sort of TG himself, let alone an admirer. He is a guy's guy who can be so very happy laying on a raft in my pool with a beer in hand patting his moderately rotund (and extraordinarily hairy) belly, just as proud as he can be. And I can pretty much guarantee that the only TG he knows is me, even if he is not quite certain yet.

Honestly? People don't like to see elephants. Most people don't like to see things that conflict with their viewpoint or would take extra effort for them to understand. They would much rather invent some other reason why these things are going on, rather than confront you on it. Result? They essentially toss a mental throw rug over it and decide to pretend it doesn't exist. So, for most of the people that come into contact with you, they deny your elephant's existence, and invent other reasons for these modifications - midlife crisis, changes in grooming habits, etc., as the truth is just too much effort for them to conceive. That's my thought, anyway.

Sorry this was so uncharacteristically quick (for me, anyway). I have to go feed my elephant.



Kathi

I generally agree with you about elephants. People will automatically default to that which is familiar in order to provide some sort of explanation and then they move on. The question is whether there is a tipping point where more thought is required of them and the TG thing comes into play. I guess my point is that I think I've gotten to that point with at least some people.

BTW, I hope your elephant is happy and well-fed!!!

And both of these comments made me smile....

Sara, I guess there is a third problem as well. Like so many around here, you have such a pretty elephant, she needs to be fed, watered, exercised and seen to be happy. And if our elephant isn't happy, we ain't happy, so it increases the chances for this problem to surface. Good luck.

tick tock tick tock....

[ReineD]

Still, it will be an interesting day when I do get specifically called out. If this is pulled in a "Jeopardy" fashion (phrased in the form of a question), then I do think I'll stick to my plan and let honesty prevail.

I have a question. :D

What would happen if you told your friend and he was perfectly fine with it even to the point of not being bothered if the two of you continued to hang out while you are dressed. Anytime. And what would happen if all your other friends felt the same way and your wife had a change of heart about others not knowing, after the realization there was no unpleasant social consequences to the knowing.

Do you think you'd move towards living full time?

[Sara Jessica]

And I don't agree that you have to sustain the inevitable losses. Be prepared to lose people but I don't think it is impossible to keep all of them.

While I don't believe loss is inevitable, your follow up sentence is pure gold!!!

...I've seen no mention here about "Metrosexuals", or "Manscaping".

I had to look back because I recently mentioned "metro" but it must have been in another thread. As for "manscaping", I avoid that term like the plague, mostly because of the root word...man.

Back to metro, it's a term that many are familiar with but it seems to have fallen out of favor in the media vernacular compared to several years ago. But the thing is, one can be coined as having metro tendencies (unsure what the "sexual" has to do with "metrosexual") and still be decidedly male in every way, shape & form (perhaps with the exception of the shape of his eyebrows). My problem (if this is really a problem) is that when I present in guy mode with my hair down, it tends to look way too feminine. The picture thread I posted yesterday shows my hair pretty much as I left the house. In guy mode, it tends to get me a lot of stink-eye from others for whom the hair just doesn't compute. So for this reason, and others as well, I think I project something deeper than mere "metro" that tends to really confuse others, including friends.

I have a question. :D

What would happen if you told your friend and he was perfectly fine with it even to the point of not being bothered if the two of you continued to hang out while you are dressed. Anytime. And what would happen if all your other friends felt the same way and your wife had a change of heart about others not knowing, after the realization there was no unpleasant social consequences to the knowing.

Do you think you'd move towards living full time?

I think it's a chicken and the egg thing.

IF I were to ever go full time, I would hope & pray that my friends would stand by me. I don't picture it the other way around. Part of the reason is that my thoughts of disclosure are not centered around being able to present as female around those who know me only as a guy. And just as I'm not so keen to have my wife accompany me when out and about, I have an almost equally difficult time envisioning going there with any of my friends either as long as I am part-time in presentation.

It has been questioned that if one is a part-timer in presentation, why disclose anything to anyone who has no need to know? In my case, I'm not seeking out disclosure for disclosure's sake. Instead, I'm looking to be honest in the face of a direct inquiry. So far that hasn't happened but the gist of this thread is how it seems I'm dancing on that knife's edge right now.

But Reine, the premise in your question is a most interesting one with a reasonable conclusion to be had on my wife's part. The problem is that living full time would be the equivalent of transition, something my wife has made it crystal-clear that would mean the end of our marriage. Thus the middle path that I find myself on.

[Kathi Lake]

Reine, in forsaking the middle path, Sara knows she would also forsake her wife, her family and the life she knows for the unknown. Many on this path are not willing to risk the 'bird in the hand' for a bush - so to speak.

Sara, keep on keeping on, sis! Live your life. Love your life.

Kathi

[ReineD]

But Reine, the premise in your question is a most interesting one with a reasonable conclusion to be had on my wife's part. The problem is that living full time would be the equivalent of transition, something my wife has made it crystal-clear that would mean the end of our marriage. Thus the middle path that I find myself on.

I guess this is what I was getting at. If your wife were on board with all of this, do you think you'd like to transition? Would you be prepared to live life fully as a woman, body parts and all?

I ask this not to put you on the spot, but because I believe that gender identity does run the full spectrum between the gender binaries. There are transwomen who know without a doubt they are women born in the wrong bodies (they want to get rid of their male anatomies), there are men who know without a doubt they are fully men and nothing else (they would never dream of presenting as a woman), but there are also people who feel they are some combination of both along a widely varied spectrum ranging from more male to more female, and their cross-gender expression is not propelled by sexual fetish motives. Unfortunately we don't live in a society that accepts this easily (this is even a difficult concept to understand in the TG community, hence the perceived hierarchy between post-op TSs and others, or the idea that one must be either a CD who does this for "fetish" reasons or a true TS. Even the term "true" TS implies that anyone who does not want SRS is somehow not "true".

So, you're my guinea pig, so to speak, and I'm picking on you with my questions. :p I'd love to know how you feel.

[Noemi]

Hi Sara,

Thanks for sharing this. You are right on the mark, people notice everything. It is really a question of how accepting they are.

I am a performer and work around theater enough to pick up on the details. Every thing adds up to the big picture, actors make subtle changes to convey the character.

I am really impressed with how far some of you girls have taken things.

BTW the Elephant singing show tunes is darling, thanks for that.

I can still pull off male because I have not gotten into the MBM's as of yet. I think about them..and would like to be very fem, actually be a woman. But I was born male. There is still a use for me being male and presenting as male I remain, there is a reason I am like this/trans gendered.

As the Artist, I tell people what to think. Me, I color their perceptions. My point is you can create what you like. The masses, you can not go by them.....

But I know you are also describing your relationships with friends and co workers. Those who know you over a span of time.

This, I go through with family, and some co workers, they figure I am gay...I do like men, but I am more of a woman, how they like men, usually I am alone.

But it is left at gay, but only to some, with others they do not see a thing, I am just another dude.
The dignity I carry myself with is what people that know me for a length of time respond to. I am a kind and respectful person. It does not hurt that I am a professional artist, they just write me right off there...say OK he's one of those artists....
So the years of starvation and those horrid part time jobs pay off LOL!!
♥♥♥
Noemi

[Sara Jessica]

It's been a while since my elephant has had a need to update her tale. I guess that's the way it should be, or at least the way I'd prefer it to be. But I can't seem to buy a break from this friend of mine.

A little back-story. It's been darned hot here in SoCal. Summer started very slowly in that it was very mild for quite some time. Then it seems like about 6 weeks ago the heat returned with a vengeance and heatwaves of 100+ temps seemed to be upon us more often than not.

Usually during this kind of weather I would only keep a pedi when I go out & about, only to remove the polish soon after returning home. It is pool season and my elephant isn't about to start explaining colored toesies to anyone. Last Tuesday morning on kind of a whim I reapplied some color (A-Rose at Dawn...Broke by Noon by OPI) and I was able to keep this around until Sunday morning. Knowing my friend and his daughter would be coming over later to swim, I removed it. Then to ensure my removal would stand the test of keeping my elephant quiet, I got my reading glasses and went over it again, making sure to get every speck around the base of the nails and off of the cuticles.

Perfectly confident that I had sufficiently taped my elephant's mouth shut, I was surprised to hear from my friend while sitting on the patio...

Are you wearing nail polish???

Holy s#*^, I thought. There's no way he can perceive anything, is there???

When I asked why he would say that, he replied that my nails have a pumpkin-y color to them.

I replied that I wasn't and pretty much left it at that.

So what was it that he saw? How did I get busted for a non-existent pedi? Well I do have some discoloration due to longtime use of darker polish colors. This is usually evident as I come off of the fall-winter-spring seasons while pretty much having a pedi 24/7. Summer things get to "air out" and the discoloration tends to grow out so by this time of year it should be completely unnoticeable. Yet this year I've been trying to keep a pedi more often than not and this is the result despite the fact I use a good quality base coat every time I have my nails done or do them myself.

Sigh. That's all I can do these days. I would come clean to him in a heartbeat if I had my wife's blessing to do so. At this point though, he just keeps missing that bullseye by smaller increments at every shot. It's only a matter of time before he nails it.

[Alice B]

Sara,

As you know my elephant is now free roaming our house and yard, since the entire extended family knows. Yet, it seems as if no one outside the family has a clue. Strange because I fully shave my body, have painted toe nails and wear ear rings all the time. But, no one at my golf club or other groups has ever said a thing. I just got back from 3 weeks in Scotland and the first thing I did was totally shave my body again and had a mani and pedi. Then I went to a reunion of lifeguards, wearing shorts and no a word or inkling from any one. Including my wonderful wife. Do I worry about the elephant breaking free? Sure. I think one of these day the elephant will jump in my pool and make a wave so big it will knock down the walls and run wild. In the mean time I'll try to keep the elephant happy and well fed. And hold my breath.

I have some free time from the end of October to the middle of November. Maybe you can come on down and leave your elephant at home as mine will cover us both.

[kristinacd55]

I think he thought you were celebrating halloween early this year!

[Pexetta]

Contrariwise, I think you started 'taming this beast' when you first had electrolysis. Only a really committed CDer would go so far and I suspect you knew that perfectly well when you made post #1. The elephant in your room has long since demolished the walls and rampaged off into the jungle.

I may of course be projecting from my own situation but the point is, the mahout hasn't been born that can keep this particular elephant under control.

[Lexi_83]

I broke up with a GF who I didn't tell I crossdressed and didn't like the idea when I did tell her, just before breaking up. I was never anything but nice to her, and her response was to out me to most of our mutual friends.

Some of them broke off connection. Some of them keep in touch but don't want to hear anything about that part of my life. A few are at least a little supportive and there are only two women and 1 1/2 guys who have actually been what you would call supportive. In the long run it was the best thing that ever happened to me, as at least when I'm with them they know this part of me. And since then I've gotten several requests from wives whose husbands are interested in dressing and want to help.

So it's good and bad, but mostly good.

[Raquel June]

I'm intrigued. Sorry for showing up late.

... I would be absolutely floored if he were any sort of TG himself, let alone an admirer. He is a guy's guy who can be so very happy laying on a raft in my pool with a beer in hand patting his moderately rotund (and extraordinarily hairy) belly, just as proud as he can be. And I can pretty much guarantee that the only TG he knows is me, even if he is not quite certain yet.

This is your best friend? The guy who keeps noticing more and more things and making little comments?

You've gotta watch out. You've gotta really think about what your boundaries are. I know it sounds silly, but this could turn into a situation that totally blindsides you.

Guys get a little weird when their friends turn out to be gay or trans. If you're not in the let's-drink-a-beer-and-whistle-at-chicks zone, you're in a place that has some sexual tension. Some guys can deal with that and even make jokes about it. Some guys can't.

If you're not their 100% hetero dude buddy, you become a sex object to some degree. It doesn't mean they're going to be offensive or try to rape you. But one day they might have too many drinks and tell you you're un-f*ckable. Or maybe they'll tell you that you are. Either way, it's a weird situation.

Maybe you've thought of this and you're prepared to stand up for yourself. But is being out new to you? Are you prepared for your own feelings?

And in a way, it can be flattering just to be seen in any kind of feminine terms. A part of you will say, "This person sees the woman in me, and that's all I want," and no matter how gross a guy is, it's good to feel beautiful and desired. You've gotta plan ahead and make up your mind that if you hear that voice in your head you're going to tell the b*tch to shut up.

Sorry for the tangent, but I just thought if you hadn't really experienced what it's like to come out to your guy friends that it might be helpful.

Might some on the TS end of things think I'm less authentic by choosing to stay on this particular path? You bet.

Less authentic? You're not posting about frilly panties. You're posting about changes you're making to your everyday life to make you more feminine. You say you identify as female. Sounds pretty authentically TS to me.

I have my family for whom my personal sacrifice is made. I place my sanity at risk every day of my life, not to mention the vice that squeezes my heart more often than not, all to be surrounded by a love that I am simply unwilling to risk.

Not that I'm necessarily right, I really think most people who try to stay in the middle are torturing themselves and they would be better off (as far as their sanity) to go a little further to the one side of the path that they know they want to be on. Let's be honest, you're pushing pretty hard towards one side, aren't ya?

But, if you love the woman, if you love the relationship as it is, your sacrifice may be improving your sanity, not just appeasing her.

OK, here's another tangent of mine. Because I never hear anybody else talk seriously about the sexual-orientation-transition you force on yourself as a married M2F.

You kinda blame things on your wife not being comfortable with your inner female. But look at the big picture. Even if your wife is totally supportive and accepting, it's pretty weird to transition from living as a straight guy to living as a lesbian.

Seriously. I transitioned, and within a couple months I was totally comfortable being full-time and felt that I passed just fine. Not that I'm particularly attractive, but nobody looked at me funny. But when you throw a wife/girlfriend into the mix, that's when things get hard. Because gay people making public displays of affection attract attention.

And I'm not talking about inappropriate displays. I'm talking about subtle things. It attracts attention. It makes you self-conscious. You act more awkward. People look at you. In the end it adds up to you outing yourself as trans as soon as you out yourself as a lesbian. And you don't want to attract attention. So you show less affection towards your wife. And that puts a big strain on your relationship.

For me, it came out of nowhere. I realized, "Wow. I guess I really don't know the appropriate way for a lesbian couple to act in public."

And it made me realize that I had put all my energy into coming to terms with being trans but neglected to really think about what it was to be a lesbian. You're married to a straight woman. Unless she's capable of being publicly gay, and privately getting what she wants from a relationship with another woman, it's just not gonna work out.

And even if you take her out of the equation, you need to take a long look on whether or not you can handle being a lesbian with a lesbian. Because if you don't really cope with what it is to be a woman who loves women, you're going to end up being with unstable women. I went through that for awhile. Women were intrigued by me! I'm the weird guy who's going to get a sex change! But the women I dated weren't lesbians. They were unstable women who saw me as a novelty.

I'm just saying, being a lesbian is a huge part of the "big picture" that people tend to ignore completely when they wish they could transition. It might be a good reason to stop pushing towards the female side of the "middle path" and be happy with the relationship you have.

I'm a little more careful with the term woman.... I personally feel I haven't earned my womanhood yet.

Ugh! That's how I felt for so long! I didn't accept myself. I basically idealized womanhood and thought I wasn't good enough to see myself as a "real woman." It really screwed up my perspective more than I realized. It was a depressing place to be at.

At the end of the day, this woman comes into my office and takes a seat. We were talking for all of 30 seconds when she says...

You're wearing mascara, aren't you???

To which I calmly replied, "no, I'm not".

Some people are more observant than others. But the people-watchers are usually the quiet ones. So by the time someone actually says something, you can bet they weren't the first to notice.

Not that I'm a huge Monty Python fan, but this immediately made me think of the Black Knight.

"You're wearing mascara!"

"No I'm not!"

"Well what's that, then?"

"I'm tired."

"No you're not! That's makeup on your face!"

"It's just guyliner."

it finally came out...her utter disdain for each and every change that my elephant represents. The removal of my body hair, she hates it. My long hair of course she despises. Even my facial electrolysis that I have been slowly chipping away at (which I began with her tacit approval). All of these things represent the erasure of the man she married and are a constant reminder of who & what I am.

Ouch.

She might not actually hate every one of those things. She just hates that you're trying to kill off the man she married, and she hates that you're trying to invade her space in the role as the woman.

My ex was awesome at first. She accepted me as a woman more than I accepted myself. She'd even dated a few girls. She knew how to treat a woman. She loved to go shopping with me. She gave me my estrogen injections.

But in the end she wanted a more normal life for her and her daughters, and it was just too much for her feeling like she was losing her place as the woman.

The bottom line is that if you're a lesbian you have to be with a woman who's OK with being a lesbian. Otherwise it's going to all hit the fan sooner or later.

[Sara Jessica]

Thanks to everyone for the kind words, I really appreciate the thoughts.

...She probably feels that you are being selfish in all that you do and while it is true that we probably are all selfish at some level, it has been obvious that you are trying to find ways to balance things out.

I'd be lying if I didn't think OFTEN about how selfish this whole thing seems. Whether being perfectly content if the entire family took off for several hours which gives me some quiet time at home to the changes made to my appearance, a lot of this seems selfish on the surface. But then shouldn't we look at the alternative? What becomes of our psyche if we bury this aspect of our being? What happens if we have no mode of expression? Will that affect our relations with others? In my case, unfortunately it can do just that. I get cranky if I cannot get out & about at least every two weeks or so. One thing that has changed though is my home crankiness has been diminished by my appearance changes. It's like the clothes, and certainly the makeup, becomes less necessary because I feel closer to my true self in my daily expression, if that makes any sense.

Counseling is such an obvious option, one that I didn't even remotely consider in the heat of the moment. We haven't gone there before, thank you for bringing it up. Sometimes stating the obvious can be such a good thing when one is blinded to most of what is around them.

I can really see both sides of this. My understanding of gender is different than your wife's (I believe there exists non-binary gender), but I can understand a wife who believes there are men, women, and nothing in between. To such a wife any cross-gender expression is incomprehensible and further, it is distasteful. Or, if you are in the binary (if you are TS and will never truly be happy unless you eradicate your male self), then I can see the push-pull between the two of you and I can certainly understand your wife's denial as she attempts to preserve the status quo with a husband that she loves.

I believe in gender fluidity, that the proof lies in something as simple as the membership of these pages.

It's society that has constructed the binary, for better or for worse. And I think that most people can get their heads around some variation of black & white (as in, some men are more manly than others, some women come across as being more feminine than others) but to travel too far from the binary leads to the outlier territory which is apparently where I reside. Regardless, I too accept the general premise of a gender binary and have often said that I was simply drafted to the wrong team. And don't get me wrong, I harbor absolutely no resentment towards my wife because she struggles with this. It stinks for her, it stinks for many SO's out there. I cannot blame her in the least bit for trying to preserve the status quo.

She has seen Sara emerge bit by bit, first with a few items of clothing, then outings combined with body shaving, eyebrow plucking, nail growing and polishing, long hair, (and also from your past posts increasing hip and butt size), plus an ever increasing accumulation of clothing and accessories. She might have reluctantly been OK with all of this as long as your things were "impermanently" scattered around the house in tote bags, as if this was a phase that might eventually subside. But, a clothes closet that is dedicated to Sara lends an air of permanence and it is as serious to your wife, I'm guessing, as if you were deciding to begin taking hormones.

Very insightful, and yes, I think you are right.

Still. She should allow for adequate storage of clothing. It really is just clothing storage in a house that you both share, and it will not change anything. But, you need to be crystal clear with her right now about your ultimate goals. This business of bit-by-bit growth, and your wife also noticing your ever increasing need (and sheer joy) in expressing Sara, is torture to her, as I'm sure it is for you as long as there is an elephant in the room. Hiding an elephant is stressful both for the person hiding it, and the person who tries hard not to see it.

In other words, it is not about the new closet for your stuff, it is about where this is all heading.

This is exactly where I'm going the next time we talk.

I have shared with many others, both IRL and in these pages, my commitment to stay on this middle path. Sometimes it's those conversations with friends, many of whom are like-minded people (others of the TG persuasion who are also balancing family & career in the face of whatever TG issues that are present) go far to give me strength.

Yes, from her POV I am on that proverbial slippery slope. She has no idea what next week, next month, or next year might bring. Heck, neither do I. But the fact remains that I am committed to staying on this path. The reason this is lost upon her? It's really quite simple, a lack of communication when it comes to this huge elephant in our relationship.

I need to express to her where I see this whole thing going. I need to reassure her.

If you can honestly say that you also have a male identity that YOU do not wish to eradicate (as opposed to saying you are attempting to maintain a balance out of your love for her), then TELL HER this in order to ease her fears. She's not interested in hearing that you are holding yourself back for her. She wants to know that you are not moving forward for YOU. If you cannot do this, then it might be best for the two of you to part company sooner than later. It's damn hard starting a life over, the closer one gets to retirement.

Wow, that's a tough one to answer.

I think she knows too well that I would eradicate the male in a heartbeat. I don't think she's too concerned about my reasons not to do so, whether it be for her, my children, whatever it might be. Just like when she says "please cut your hair, even if only for me". She'd be all good with me NOT doing these things, regardless of the motivation.

At the end of the day, I cannot say anything but the fact that I am trying to maintain balance for her, for my family. What I can say is that I have known joy in doing so despite where things are right now. But it's not like there is a right or wrong answer here. Choosing to transition could lead to fulfillment beyond my wildest dreams, but it very well could be the equivalent of trading one set of issues for another. My choice at this moment is predicated upon not risking my family.


By the way...Raquel, your post is wonderful and unique in it's perspective. I will try to address it within the next day or two.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I've been thinking of responding for a while, and figured I had better do it before the thread gets closed. There are things I will say that I believe need to be said, but I really do hate saying them.

But, a clothes closet that is dedicated to Sara lends an air of permanence and it is as serious to your wife, I'm guessing, as if you were deciding to begin taking hormones.

Yes, as do the mini-body-mods, especially the electrolysis.

Still. She should allow for adequate storage of clothing.

But, you need to be crystal clear with her right now about your ultimate goals. This business of bit-by-bit growth, and your wife also noticing your ever increasing need (and sheer joy) in expressing Sara, is torture to her, as I'm sure it is for you as long as there is an elephant in the room. Hiding an elephant is stressful both for the person hiding it, and the person who tries hard not to see it.

Yes. I think it's time for Sara and her wife to have the Big talk, the Long open and honest talk about The Elephant. It's not good to leave things unsaid, or to beat around the bush, it's time to "use the words"

If you can honestly say that you also have a male identity that YOU do not wish to eradicate (as opposed to saying you are attempting to maintain a balance out of your love for her), then TELL HER this in order to ease her fears.

We both know that Sara can't tell her that, which to be honest, isn't really fair to Sara's wife.

She's not interested in hearing that you are holding yourself back for her. She wants to know that you are not moving forward for YOU. If you cannot do this, then it might be best for the two of you to part company sooner than later. It's damn hard starting a life over, the closer one gets to retirement.

I agree.

Counseling is such an obvious option, one that I didn't even remotely consider in the heat of the moment. We haven't gone there before, thank you for bringing it up. Sometimes stating the obvious can be such a good thing when one is blinded to most of what is around them.

And not just couples counseling...counseling for you to, you know why.

Yes, from her POV I am on that proverbial slippery slope. She has no idea what next week, next month, or next year might bring. Heck, neither do I. But the fact remains that I am committed to staying on this path. The reason this is lost upon her? It's really quite simple, a lack of communication when it comes to this huge elephant in our relationship.

You told a little fib there....you know where it's heading, you just can't bring yourself to say it yet. What you're doing is honorable yes, it's self-sacrifice, yes. But is it a "good" thing for you both. it denies the nonesty and reality of the thing. Because, as we both know:

I think she knows too well that I would eradicate the male in a heartbeat.

There, you said it. And you DO need to say it directly to her as well. Yes, I know what that will mean, but honesty is the most important thing.

At the end of the day, I cannot say anything but the fact that I am trying to maintain balance for her,

But from her perspective, she might not see balance, just ever increasing Sara. To her, Balance might be in what a TS acquaintance of mine once called the "pona time" aka "the before time" Before the Electro, before the brows, before the hair, before all the stuff that needs proper storage.

But it's not like there is a right or wrong answer here.

The right answer is putting all the cards on the table. Has your wife seen your writings here? Is she a member here? Has she been on one of your outings where you interact with people like your favorite counter-girls and Diana?

By the way...Raquel, your post is wonderful and unique in it's perspective. I will try to address it within the next day or two.

Nods... that you'll have to address too. Would your wife accept being part of a Lesbian relationship.

I also think it's time the kids were told, that would help with the logistics of it wouldn't it, changing at home would reduce some of the time requirements wouldn't it? Reduce some friction at least.

But as was said, there's a light on the Safe Haven for you. And I'm not being prescriptive or cheerleadery on this. You "know", deep in your heart what you truly want. It's why you did the electro, you might have said to her "it's for logistics so I can use less makeup and take less time with makeup and look nicer", but you really wanted a part of your maleness gone besides those reasons.

Veronica

[ReineD]

Sorry that I missed your response to my response earlier (lost sight of the thread), but better late than never:

It's society that has constructed the binary, for better or for worse.

I disagree with this. I do not believe that gender is a construction, and the reality is that more than 95% of individuals in our society feel aligned to their birth genders. At the same time, there is a small percentage of people whose gender ID is not quite so clear cut and there is an even smaller percentage of people who feel they were born in entirely the wrong body.

I have shared with many others, both IRL and in these pages, my commitment to stay on this middle path.

Yes, from her POV I am on that proverbial slippery slope. She has no idea what next week, next month, or next year might bring. Heck, neither do I. But the fact remains that I am committed to staying on this path. The reason this is lost upon her? It's really quite simple, a lack of communication when it comes to this huge elephant in our relationship.

People are either fully congruent with their birth genders, or they are transsexual and feel they were born in the wrong bodies, or they know that they are gender non-conforming and in their psyches there resides characteristics and affinities of both genders. I understand a period of time when people are exploring and do not know who they are, but you've been freely expressing Sara for a while now, and so you must know how you feel in the deepest part of yourself?

If you are TS, you should NOT pretend that you aren't nor should you give the impression that you are staying on a middle path "for her". I don't think she wants to be married to a transsexual who is a reluctant male since as you describe, this condemns her to living a life with a male who is not fully present in his male life and also waiting for the other shoe to drop, not knowing when your proverbial bell will ring and you will feel compelled to pursue transition ... as happens with other TSs.

If you are not a reluctant male and you feel that you embrace both male and female aspects within yourself and you cannot fathom the idea of full transition at any time in the future, then you should tell her this and also believe it within yourself, which would mean putting things back into perspective for yourself.

You said earlier (post #30) that you would transition in a flash and by this I take it that you mean, had you known about yourself before a commitment to your marriage, kids, and your male life, you would have taken a different course. You also said that you are attached to the things you have built in your male life. To me, this means having built an appreciation for aspects of your male self and the things in life that revolve around your male self, in addition to wanting to express femininity. But to live a life having an insatiable desire to transition (which you also said) all the while living as a male a significant portion of the time seems like an unsatisfactory way to live a life while sitting on the fence. This translates, as mentioned, to not fully being present to your family members who know you as male and to also not know what might happen in the future and this is unsettling and stressful for any spouse to live with if she knows within the deepest part of herself that she is not lesbian and she cannot be married to a woman.

Does this make sense? You need to make up your mind which way you will genuinely live your life in the future. If it involves an insatiable desire to live as a woman you need to be honest with your wife about this and accept the outcome. If it involves appreciating the things that revolve around your male life and living in both genders alternatively because of this, you need to accept and honor this and not pine away for something else.

In my opinion.

[tara t]

i've changed a lot recently as well. my elephant is starting to sing a bit too . i'm undecided if its a good or bad thing .

[Sophie_C]

I say joke but don't deny. Sure, you're girly. Of course, right. The humor gets people's guards down while simultaneously getting them used to it, without the fear of having it so head-on.