What the issue of passing in public comes down to

[Violetgray]

Let's start with a bizarre scenario:

Let's say that you are alone in the living room watching TV. A large, muscular man walks in and issues a warning:

"If you decide to watch something I don't like, I'll BEAT YOU!!!!"

And then he leaves. Here's the problem: You don't know the guy. You don't know what his preferences are. You just know that there is the potential for danger. What is the best way to ensure that you will never feel his wrath?

Turn off the tv.

You remove the threat by eliminating the conditions necessary for the threat to manifest itself. You use what power you have to change the situation.

And that's what passing vs. acceptance is ultimately about, power. When you pass, just like when you turn off the tv, you take away the power of others to judge you. Acceptance is hoping that the large man (society) likes what you're watching. Sometimes he will, sometimes he won't.

That's not to say that passing is the end-all. Working to maintain passability can be a chore if not nerve-wracking. But still, a lot of the conversation I hear has people who honestly try to blend passing and acceptance into some mish-mash definition that they feel comfortable with, and I just wanted to help clarify if I could.

Just my opinion of course..

[jillleanne]

You're quite right, it's bizarre.

[katie_barns]

I can't say that I 100% agree with that. But I do see your point where passing does eliminate threats to some degree. I don't see that passing and accepting can be connected. Maybe that is what you are saying? If you pass then there is no acceptance. Acceptance is when people know what you are and are ok with it. Passing eliminates the need for acceptance. My opinion.
I also think that some misunderstand why passing is important. For me its not to eliminate a threat or be accepted. Its my own desire to be who I am inside. If I pass then I am the girl I am inside. Again my opinion
Thanks for the post, it got me thinking !!! Which goes against my blondness. lol

[Sapphire]

In an unsafe setting passing is clearly a lot more important as there is the risk of encountering people who just love inflicting hurt on those who are diferent and who are especially vulnerable. Being a woman in such a setting is hazardous enough, but I suspect a lot less hazardous than being an en femme transgendered person.

[NicoleScott]

When you turn off the TV, the bully wins.

[Julogden]

You're correct, but passing does absolutely nothing to increase acceptance of trans people.

In my opinion, passing is just swapping one lie for another. And even if I didn't feel that passing isn't a good thing in the long run, passing is simply not possible for many of us.

In the past, and in some places, still currently, passing is required and in some cases can literally be a matter of life or death, but in most of the civilized world, transgender people are becoming more and more accepted. I feel that passing does nothing to further that acceptance.

How about another scenario: a large, muscular Caucasian man walks up to someone who isn't Caucasian and tells them that unless they make themself appear to be Caucasian, he's going to beat them, what should that person do?

Carol

[wendy360]

Just because you pass does not mean you turned off the TV or removed the threat. You can dress and present yourself perfectly but you still need to be aware of your surroundings and ask your self would a GG go here?

[Amy Fakley]

this is a thought provoking thread.
It never occurred to me that our (nearly universal) desire to pass alsomakes us invisible (when we're successful), making it even harder for us to make footholds in terms of acceptance in society.

Thing is ... it's hard to pass all the time (at least for most of us). So I suspect there's enough visibility to go around ... I mean ... I guess what I'm saying is that when I get to the point where I honestly feel I pass so well that I need to dial it back so that people will know I'm a CD and I can make a good impression and be "part of the solution" as it were ... I s'pose they call that a "quality problem".

[kimdl93]

I'm not sure turning off the TV is the most reliable method of defense. The surest way would be to lock the door and keep the large muscular man from coming inside. I'd see turning off the TV as yeilding to coercion...or the fear of coercion. Wouldn't the CD equivalent be remaining in the closet?

I don't think that is what you meant. As I understand your point, working to attain some degree of passability is a proactive way that we can take power and responsibility for our lives - and gain a greater degree of acceptance in the process.

[Stephanie47]

At home I pass 100%. I just do not get too close to a mirror. From afar I see a very tastefully attired older woman. I always wear a pretty dress and heels. I know my choice of undergarments and day wear are very acceptable, if I were to be hit by a car crossing a street and the EMT's arrive.

Outside the home? I cannot hide my size 18 frame of 6 foot 0 and 198-200 pounds. I have that 'male' angular shaped face. I do not pass for a woman. Maybe, I would pass as a woman retiree for the old East Germany Olympic team. Girls on steroids!

I envy those of you who pass as a woman.

[Karren H]

in reality I would have shot him dead before he left making sure he fell inside the house and claimed he threatened me and it was in self defense...... which means I should go you and punch anyone who I think might not like the way I dressed enfemme?

[TGMarla]

I don't try to pass in order to keep from getting hurt. I try to pass so that I can "be" a woman for a while, to experience my life from a female perspective without the added encumberance of some 800 pound gorilla in the room. If I don't pass well, others always think (or say) "Gee, look at the crossdresser" rather than ignoring the situation altogether. When we pass, we get to experience life from a woman's perspective. When we don't, we're getting only the crossdressers' experience. And as insane as it sounds, people react to crossdressers differently than they do natal women.

[STACY B]

You're correct, but passing does absolutely nothing to increase acceptance of trans people.

In my opinion, passing is just swapping one lie for another. And even if I didn't feel that passing isn't a good thing in the long run, passing is simply not possible for many of us.

In the past, and in some places, still currently, passing is required and in some cases can literally be a matter of life or death, but in most of the civilized world, transgender people are becoming more and more accepted. I feel that passing does nothing to further that acceptance.

How about another scenario: a large, muscular Caucasian man walks up to someone who isn't Caucasian and tells them that unless they make themself appear to be Caucasian, he's going to beat them, what should that person do?

Carol

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know ,,,,I know,,,, Turn off the TV,,,,,,,, WLL it worked last time !!!

[Leslie Langford]

Good points, Violet, from a "quick-fix" perspective, and so as not to put oneself into harm's way when we are out and about.

Where you lose me, though - and as others here have pointed out as well - is that this approach just reinforces the mind-set (often self-imposed) that we are abnormal and need to hide ourselves so as not to upset the "others" who, for reasons best known to themselves, feel threatened by people like us and therefore assume that it is their God-given "right" to punish us for what we are. And yes, in that way, the bullies win in the end.

What we need to keep on doing is to continue to be out and about and if for certain physical reasons some of us can't "pass" fully, then at least we should aim to blend in and go about our business out in the real world just like any other GG would. It's all about our attitude, and even if we do get read on occasion, it has been my experience that the sky doesn't fall in. The brief look of bewilderment in other people's eyes quickly passes, and unless they are totally devoid of the normal social graces they quickly recover their composure and act as if nothing is out of the ordinary - and so should we. And as many others here have pointed out in other posts - a disarming smile on our part can often diffuse even the most awkward situation.

When I go out as "Leslie" I dress stylishly, age-appropriately and usually as well as - if not better than - the GG's that I am apt to encounter. The level of acceptance that this has earned me in my interactions with these GG's has exceeded even my wildest expectations, and they invariably seem to appreciate the efforts that I have made not only to emulate them, but also in the very positive and respectful manner that I do.

Admittedly, I try to limit my encounters with men for the same reasons you allude to, and which amount to being less likely to gauge what to expect as a reaction from them. The reality, however, is that the few encounters I have had with men in the past as "Leslie" have also been uneventful. Maybe that was mainly because - being men - they are far less in tune with the subtle gender-variant signals we give off, and which GG's pick up on. They essentially appear to be clueless as to my true sex during these encounters and are more focused on my overall presentation as a well-dressed, well made-up and feminine- looking "lady", and frankly, I'm not about to agonize over that, as it works for me.

But the real answer here is for us to continue the push the envelope as far as visibility goes and assert ourselves and our right to be who and what we are - just as the civil rights activists, the feminists and the gay community have done before us to gain acceptance. It's not always the easiest path to follow, but sometimes a very necessary one, as those other movements have so amply demonstrated.

[KellyJameson]

Passing is a double edged sword because if you pass to well the large muscular man will want to sit on the couch and cuddle and somewhere in there while watching reruns of I Love Lucy he is going to figure out something is amiss,
probably before the first commercial.

[CarmenSkye]

You're correct, but passing does absolutely nothing to increase acceptance of trans people.

In my opinion, passing is just swapping one lie for another. And even if I didn't feel that passing isn't a good thing in the long run, passing is simply not possible for many of us.

Carol

One lie for another?

Acceptance is when people know what you are and are ok with it. Passing eliminates the need for acceptance. My opinion.
I also think that some misunderstand why passing is important. For me its not to eliminate a threat or be accepted. Its my own desire to be who I am inside. If I pass then I am the girl I am inside.

Couldn't agree more. I don't want to be accepted as a transgender/crossdresser I'd rather be accepted as a female. I feel that there are a lot that do settle for being that and I feel that it doesn't help the community. As a community we should be accepted for what we are not as what society has labeled us.


I mean we call the color purple "purple" not "blue-red".

[STACY B]

I can understand the PASSING PART ,, But ya ever thought of this ? If you pass ,,You put yourself in a GG shoes ,, What about a GG getting attacked by someone who thought they were GG ? Now with that being said ,,,This is not for EVERY ONE ,,, But for me I know for sure ,,, I kinda want them to know what I am ,,For the reasons listed below an for SAFETY reasons ,,,Mostly there's ,, I never had alot of problems as far as BULLY'S ,,, But if you BLEND ,,Then your minding YOUR BIZZNESS ,, An not sticking out like a HOOKER ,, But if you PASS you might become a victum ? So ya gotta ask yourself would you realy rather blend or pass ? Like the others said all in all it will never help our FIGHT ,, Cuz all people cant pass ,, Most are lucky to blend . But repetishion becomes the norm,, If they get used to seeing us out an about alot they will find some one else to hate on . Maybe can find some MMA fighters ,, There Pretty nice !!!

[Lorileah]

amazing how many here react with violence in the scenario. How they would do something "to" the man. And yet staying with Violet's analogy, you let that same man push you around daily. You don't kill the person who has told you that you should not wear a dress in public, you meekly crawl away.

So angry

[Wildaboutheels]

FACT. The world is full of ignorant and/or intolerant people. Who MIGHT do you bodily harm, because of how you are dressed.

You are probably more likely to be involved in a car accident than have a run in with one of those ^^^ Ignorant people.

NOT going to stop driving are you?

And "passing" does not necessarily mean you passed. It might just as likely mean that they noticed but simply do NOT CARE.

[StarrOfDelite]

My question at first was, am I dressed as a girl or a boy when this occurs? I'm going to assume as a girl.

To follow up on the analogy, after the initial threat I would make sure that my Rottweiler was by my side at all times when I was watching TV. The Rottweiler would be my wig, my makeup, my shoes, my clothes, and my betwitching femme personality. Oh, wait, that's what Violet was trying to say. So, am I conforming and knuckling under to society when I sic my Rottweiler on the bully? I definitely couldn't/wouldn't turn off the television, because without the television (my dressing) my life would be incomplete.

[docrobbysherry]

Seems everyone is taking liberties with Violet's post! So, I mite as well, too!

I agree entirely with your opinion, Violet! However, unlike u, I could NEVER PASS!

However, stretching your post a little, here's how I cope:

Leave on the TV. Lock the closet door. Forget about stress, anyone seeing me, dressing to blend, (ick!), get out my sexiest, skimpiest, most exciting outfits and---- have the time of my life! Does this favorably compare with someone calling u, "Mam", down at corner super? For me it does! I'll take carefree fun in private over stressful blending ANY DAY! Maybe for u it DOESN'T!

Hey! We all do what we can with what we have, rite? As long as you're having fun with your dressing, you're doing it rite!

[NicoleScott]

But Doc, if you don't get out and take some verbal abuse and maybe get beat up, you're not doing your part for "the cause".

[Persephone]

As always, Violet, you are one of the most insightful and cool people on this system and, heck, maybe even on the whole damn planet!

You rock, girl!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Tracii G]

Having passed and blended in its not too bad to be invisible to some.If things get sketchy just remove yourself from the bad situation whatever way you can.I'm usually armed in some fashion so I have an equalizer.
To be read as a man in womens clothes is not bad either I have been clocked many times and most just don't care and won't say anything.
I have had some bruiser guys say something but when they do realize you are a man and when you tell them to take their best shot they back down.
I try to stay calm in that kind of situation and tell them its my choice to dress this way just as it is your choice to dress as a man.
Most of the time they say you are right but I still don't like queers.I say well I'm not queer so why are you mad at me?
Reason over brawn works in most cases and most guys will be cool if you just explain your preference in clothing.

[Eryn]

Let's say that you are alone in the living room watching TV. A large, muscular man walks in and issues a warning:

"If you decide to watch something I don't like, I'll BEAT YOU!!!!"

And then he leaves. Here's the problem: You don't know the guy. You don't know what his preferences are. You just know that there is the potential for danger. What is the best way to ensure that you will never feel his wrath?

Turn off the tv.

You remove the threat by eliminating the conditions necessary for the threat to manifest itself.

Actually, you did not remove the threat. The threat was not rational and there is no guarantee that the man will stick to his word. He might find another reason to beat you, or just beat you for no reason at all. Or, much more likely, he will go away and never be seen again which renders elimination of TV-watching to be a useless gesture.

My solution is to limit contact with irrational people. Luckily, I do not find this to be terribly difficult as I avoid the places that such people tend to congregate.