Passing - It's Really BS

[heatherdress]

A lot of threads express concerns about "passing". Most of us want to feel comfortable when dressed and it woud be easy if we "passed". Most of us CDing guys don't pass, and never will, because of our - size, features, voice, beard, height, build, gait, hair etc. It's simple, we are guys and spend a lot of wasted time worrying that we look like guys -even in make-up, a dress and high heels. Why do we worry so much? If you think about it, women are frequently overweight, skinny, out of shape, too tall, no breasts, sagging breasts, hairy, bald, poorly dressed, loud and ugly. Do they "pass"? I am sure most feel self-conscious about their appearance, as we do. Some will be stared at, maybe laughed at. There are assholes everywhere.
If anyone who might have normal eyesight discovers that we are a male dressed as a female (i.e. - we did not "pass") why should we care what they think? Most of us, hopefully, dress for us, not for them.
What's really important is who we are, not what we look like to others. It's our feelings that should be most important. This should be fun for us. It's just hard to remember that when we are used to worrying about being detected or being gawked at. Passing is really about confidence, attitude and being smart about were we go and who we are with.

[Sandra1746]

I dress because I like the way some clothes look and feel. I also am wearing my hair long for the same reason. If I get mistaken for a woman it isn't a problem. Sometimes I do but mostly I don't, especially if I talk.

Being myself,
Sandra1746

[kellycan27]

A lot of threads express concerns about "passing". I don't read any threads about "passing". I get it. Most of us want to feel comfortable when dressed and it woud be easy if we "passed". Most of us CDing guys don't pass, and never will, because of our - size, features, voice, beard, height, build, gait, hair etc. It's simple, we are guys and spend a lot of wasted time worrying that we look like guys -even in make-up, a dress and high heels. Why do we worry so much? If you think about it, women are frequently overweight, skinny, out of shape, too tall, no breasts, sagging breasts, hairy, bald, poorly dressed, loud and ugly. Do they "pass"? I am sure most feel self-conscious about their appearance, as we do. Some will be stared at, maybe laughed at. There are assholes everywhere.
If anyone who might have normal eyesight discovers that we are a male dressed as a female (i.e. - we did not "pass") why should we care what they think? Most of us, hopefully, dress for us, not for them.
What's really important is who we are, not what we look like to others. It's our feelings that should be most important. This should be fun for us. It's just hard to remember that when we are used to worrying about being detected or being gawked at. This "passing" BS is really about confidence, attitude and being smart about were we go and who we are with.
If only I can remember that myself. By the way, do I pass? Just a joke.

Different strokes for different folks, contrary to what you think, some DO feel that passing is important.. it might seem like BS to you, but it's not for them. Funny thing is that I have never heard anyone who can pass say it's bullshit. If self confidence and attitude work for you that's great. From your statement it would seem that your self confidence and attitude is limited to "where you go" and "who you hang out with".

[franlee]

You make some very valid points and echo some of the principle I apply to going out. But with that said the BS part would be a personal oppinion and certainly not the rule for the majority of CDers. Passing is subjective at best and important to many of us for many reasons, and when you use the points you made along with an ernest attempt most anyone can pass to a certain degree. And that is a must for many of us that live in areas that are populated with people that know you or are kin to you. For their protection as well as your own.(I'm talking about the gossip and bigottry, not so much physical) If you look like Kelly the need to be cautious is not near as crusial as it is for someone like me but it is just as important if not more so, she has invested a lot of time and effort to achieve that look even if it is natural there is still effort to maintain it. But the important thing for all of us is to recognize who we are, then what or who we want to represent and strive for that goal, no matter how high or how low it is the end results that rewards "you." Now lets burn this soap-box and touch up our makeup.

[IngeInCO]

Different strokes for different folks, contrary to what you think, some DO feel that passing is important.. it might seem like BS to you, but it's not for them. Funny thing is that I have never heard anyone who can pass say it's bullshit. If self confidence and attitude work for you that's great. From your statement it would seem that your self confidence and attitude is limited to "where you go" and "who you hang out with".

I may be vain but passing definitely is a part of my dressing. Granted I've only been out a couple times. At the same time it's not the end all for me. I will still dress even if I don't think I pass. End of the day I'm a man anyway.

[Voulez-Vous]

Different strokes for different folks, contrary to what you think, some DO feel that passing is important..

Exactly. Passing is everything. The ones who say passing is BS, say that because they can't pass and never will.

[Shelly Preston]

I am sorry but I can not agree with the statment "Passing is BS"

Yes for some it is not important but consider those who get abuse from some of the public when they are doing there best. This can be a crushing blow to there confidence. This for a CD might just stopp them for a few days weeks or months. For a TS this can have far reaching consequences as it may undermine there belief in being accepted.

It may not be for everyone but it is important.

[wendy360]

Passing is not just about I am dressed as a woman therefore everyone will think I am a woman. If I go to the grocery store or the mall in a mini skirt and a tight top and 6" CFM's people will look and I will not pass as would a GG pass wearing the same out fit.
For me a large part of passing is dressing appropriately for where I'm going and what I'm doing. If I'm going to a club I can wear the mini skirt and 6" CFM's. But if I'm going to the mall, jeans and a cute top and sandals allow me to pass.

[susangirl]

I would love to pass every time I dress but it's not going to happen. I think I'm in the 60 - 40 range on passing. I have learned to enjoy both sides of the passing issue. When a guy is checking me out as I make my way through public it makes me feel very good. I think to myself "fooled ya". On the flip side I don't mind the reaction I get when I don't pass as a woman. The reactions many people have are down right funny sometimes. I know for a fact that either way the sky is not falling just because Susan has on a great looking skirt, 4 inch heels, and a smile. I spend almost all of my time while dressed as Susan all warm inside no mater what reaction I might bring out in others. It's my fantasy all the time!!!!!!

[Ann Thomas]

I both agree and disagree with you. I guess it's the Libra in me. :-)

I do not try to pass, for those exact reasons you give that men face who are not able to or desirous for some to have all the things done, like surgeries.

But, I really do appreciate those that take the time and effort to do so. last night, for example, I was at a local support group meeting and there were several there who came back for 'alumni' visits, so to speak. Honestly three of them could not be mistaken for men, ever! They were soo gorgeous! And they weren't all old ladies. They were in their 20's and 30's and they were 100% 'passable'.

I have to wonder if you aren't a bit jealous of the kind that *are* passable?

Ann

[bridget thronton]

I prefer not to judge people and Iwould prefer not to be judged by others

[BRANDYJ]

Passing is not BS to me either. I envy those that can pull it off and venture out in public undetected. Very few of us can. But still, I try to make myself passable even though I don't venture out in public. I want to look passable for me and for my SO. I do occasionally go out to places known to accept all TG's and where some of us are regulars. But I am smart enough to know I won't pass in broad daylight doing my shopping or socializing. See, I do care what others think. I care about who I may embarrass, and not just myself. I carer about the feelings of anyone that may simply feel uncomfortable around a CD. I crossdress for me. I don't have the right to thrust it in front of those that may not be comfortable. I am not in the camp of "I don't care what others think" I care about everyone around me and how my actions might effect them. For some, not all, saying they don't care what others think is somewhat arrogant and even selfish. Yet, in some ways, I wish I was a little more like that, but i'm not.

[Barbara Ella]

We are beating up on the word "passing." It can have very different meanings to different individuals, and it all depends on their goal. For some passing is being able to sit down at a table of GG and not being noticed (OK, not very many). For some it is being happy when looking at yourself in a mirror when fully dressed, even seeing the dude. For the majority it merely means being able to go out, do something you want, and not being hassled, called out, or otherwise embarrassed.

Theoretically you are on target stating that it is really important to know who we are, but I think that sentiment goes without saying, and is held by most of us. But, just like the women you noted who don't always come up to someone elses judgement, it is imperative on each and everyone of us to go out looking the best that we can, because half hearted, or overdressing inappropriately for the location lead to increased distaste for our sisterhood, not something that happens for the GG. All the GG does is generate a bad opinion of herself, not the female species.

The key is to remember that you should have some level of enjoyment in doing what you are doing. And if you can always do that wherever you go, then you get a passing grade. And that is all the passing I can do.

If it was really BS, you would not care about looking nearly as good as you do in your pic.

Keep smiling all.

Barbara

[docrobbysherry]

Sorry Barbara! I think the word, "Passing" means the same to pretty much everyone! It means that vanilla people think U R A FEMALE!

Some people can pass all the time. Some people can pass some of the time. Some people can pass while driving by folks on a moonless nite on a back country road. And, then there's the REST OF US!

U can go out dressed as Santa Claus and say u "passed". That doesn't mean u did. Maybe u don't CARE if u pass or not? That's NOT passing either!

Because I can't pass, going out in public dressed is VERY stressful for me!

U can call it BS if u like Heather! But, it's a very unattainable dream for many of us!

[Voulez-Vous]

It's my fantasy all the time

And that's part of the problem. It's just a "fantasy" to some believing that they can pass.

I have to wonder if you aren't a bit jealous of the kind that *are* passable?

Hell yes...who wouldn't be jealous of the kind that are 100% passable?
The difference is being able to be honest that you're not passable and having enough sense not to make a fool of yourself.

[heatherdress]

Great comments, good opinions, no wrongs no rights. My intention was not create a debate about how passable everyone might be. It was not to imply that people on this site are not beautiful. Everyone on this site is beautiful in their own ways. There are as many definitions of passable as there are members. I really wanted to encourage all of our members, to feel good about the way they dress and look. What they personally think about themselves and how they feel is what really counts. Good thoughts from everyone. Thanks.

[RedBaron]

For me passing is not an issue, I have a beard after all. I am a man wearing women's clothes. I feel comfortable in women's clothes and go anywhere in skirts, without trying to look like a woman. I never considered shaving off my beard to see whether I could look like a female, I am by now completely comfortable as a man in skirts.

[BRANDYJ]

Sorry Barbara! I think the word, "Passing" means the same to pretty much everyone! It means that vanilla people think U R A FEMALE!

I agree Doc. Passing simply means the ability to go undetected by all, or most all the people you come in contact with. There are no other meanings.

Hell yes...who wouldn't be jealous of the kind that are 100% passable?
The difference is being able to be honest that you're not passable and having enough sense not to make a fool of yourself.

Heather, I for one am not jealous of those that pass. I may mildly envy them, or wish I could do it, but that's not being jealous.

There are as many definitions of passable as there are members.

I disagree Heather. Passing has only one meaning to 99.99% of us. I can't think of any other definition of passing that any of us might think is passing.

[Rachel Morley]

If anyone who might have normal eyesight discovers that we are a male dressed as a female (i.e. - we did not "pass") why should we care what they think?

Well, speaking for me personally, I care because of two things. Firstly I don't know what type of person they are and they might be offended or homophobic, trans-phobic etc and they might be offended enough to give me a hard time or even want to hurt me.

Secondly, when I present as female and go out in public I try to leave everything masculine behind, including my thoughts, and I tell myself that I'm a girl, be one, feel like one, and act like one .... and enjoy it. If I get read and they let me know that they know then it kind of reminds me of something I don't want to be reminded of ... not at that moment, anyway.

[Eryn]

Passing is as much inside our own heads as it is in the heads of those who see us. I observed a 6'+ woman with very short masculine gray hair cut in a masculine style. She had a modest bust, slim hips and was wearing shorts, T-shirt, and sneakers. She wore stud earrings and very little makeup on her sharp features and carried a small black hand wallet. Despite being dressed pretty much as a guy, she "passed" fine because there was no questions in her own mind that she was female. She "Was The Girl!"

I've considered this in my own dressing. Like many CDers I've always liked the feminine end of the range, but observation has made me realize that going ultra-femme only serves to draw attention, something you don't want if passing is a concern. I've toned down my everyday outfits considerably, picking out one femme piece to contrast with something less flashy, like a floral top with beige Capris and sandals. I've tried to adopt the same attitude that the woman I mentioned above had, that there was no room for doubt about my gender. It seems to work well!

[Candice Mae]

Luckily I have a lot going for me, I can pass until I open my mouth. Being 5'6'' and 160, I look like an athletic girl. I do look a little too butch for my liking at times, but since I stopped working out except for cardio. I've lost some upper body mass, or at least it looks less defined.

[Michelle V]

Yesssss I totally agree, but I think the passing part is more a boost to be accepted in society, I mean who wouldn't just want to dress up and go shopping without the repercussions you mention, you said it, there are always going to be people that will stare and laugh at us, that will harass us and even become violent, nobody wants to deal with that, I think passing for all of us is not just an ego boost but a way to protect ourselves from the society we live in, May(be) posted a question about who we admire in our community, well I admire those girls that go out and enjoy themselves without worrying about what people may say, I certainly don't have the cojones for that but hope to someday otherwise they are just a decoration that keeps getting on the way of wearing really tight panties.

[rachaelsloane]

This "passing" BS is really about confidence, attitude and being smart about were we go and who we are with.
If only I can remember that myself. By the way, do I pass? Just a joke.

Heather,
Your last part of the post really hits the spot. I go out regularly with a friend in SF to wine bars, restaurants and the theater all over the city and while neither of us really pass, we do present ourselves well. We get into some of the most interesting conversations with with the people we've met and on a few occasions have gone out with them on another occasion.
So yes, it is all about confidence.
Rachael

[Wildaboutheels]

Just because no one made it obvious that they noticed, doesn't mean a CDer "passed". Chances are good, that IF they are an "educated" person, Mr or Mz John Doe simply do not care so they will just ignore a CDer as making an issue of it accomplishes nothing.

Other CDers are undoubtedly THE people actually "looking for" signs that a female in public is not a real female. In Florida, where we can wear shorts almost year round, it is ever so obvious that both males and females come in an endless variety of body shapes, styles and SIZES. Many here who claim to be good at spotting fellow CDers would find themselves embarassed in Florida and would undoubtedly be "clocking" people incorrectly on a regular basis.

Some CDers aren't trying to pass and others don't care if they pass.

In the end, it simply does not matter.

[Inna]

I suppose the question at hand isn't about "PASSING", but rather "WHY DO YOU WEAR WOMEN'S CLOTHES?"

Surely noone puts on pair of pumps and a skirt to look like a fireman, pilot, bloky guy, but rather to look as closely to woman as possible......hmmmm....is that an attempt to pass, I don't know, but certainly it is an attempt at feeling and looking like one!!!! Probably somewhere within the essence of feeling and looking reside PASSING, the most sought after state of feeling being a woman if only for a moment, to be taken as a woman, adored as a woman, just simply looked at as a woman......and who in their right mind would refuse such feeling.

No, we refuse to accept that we can not pass by reason alone and that morphs into discounting its value into something annoying and not necessary.
But deep down within the psyche, if given a chance I feel safe to state, that everyone would go for it!!!!!!