Perhaps the GGs can explain....

[TGMarla]

I'm a bit confused about something. A while back, when my little hobby became known to my wife, she hit the roof and the s**t really flew. One of the things she said, or rather shouted, at the time was that she liked "masculine men", and wanted her husband to be a "man's man". Yet when women complain about the men in their lives, mine included, the first thing they complain about is that their men are uncaring, insensitive, not in touch with their emotions, inattentive to them and their needs....we all know the list. From much of what I've seen, those of us who engage in crossdressing have gone a long way towards meeting many of those needs. Yet, as in the case we see right now with Michele, wives often simply do not accept a crossdressing husband even when his crossdressing has made him a more compatable spouse because of the "fringe benefits" of his becomming more caring, sensitive, attentive, etc. And then women wonder when we say that nothing makes them happy.......

[Tamara Croft]

It's sods law You see, although some of us 'GG's' want a nice hunk of a man, we also would like them to be caring, sensitive, loving etc..... that doesn't mean we all expect them to wear womens clothing too. I mean can you imagine it..... hubby comes home.... 'darling I want you to get in touch with your feminine side, here, wear my skirt, hose etc'. Just ain't happening is it...

Not all CD's are caring, sensitive, loving etc. Just because you wear feminine things, doesn't make you feminine, clothes don't make you what you are, that comes from the inside, that's your given personality.... you may feel different when your wearing something sexy, that doesn't change the way you are inside.

Imagine it was the other way around and your wife was a FTM CD... she wanted to be the masculine one in the house, do the 'man' stuff..... how would you feel about a woman taking over your territory??

[TGMarla]

Okay. Point taken.

[kathy gg]

Most women (and this goes back to caveman days) want the most strong man, one with good genetics, and good health. I mean back when your dinner had to be killed with a bow and arrow or bare hands those traits were more important than someone willing to help wash your loincloths and talk about feelings. And even though we are not only meant to 'breed' or find the stronglest provider, that instinct to find the strongest most likely to live long and prosperous mate still is there. It is part of our brains and genes and that urge to find that particular mate is what keeps our population going.

But now because of our modern times women are conflicted with their primal need to have the he-man but also have a man willing to stick around the cave even after dinner has been served. We want faithfulness, cooperation, equality.

Many women also feel like when a guy is doing the femme thing he is coming onto their turf (even if it is a turf they dont' subscribe too {make up/pantyhose , blah blah}). The insecurities, the wondering and that clash of our primal self is being not only re-written but challenged.

This goes much deeper than just crossdressing, you are asking a woman to basically re-write her genetic self. Her heart may want to see past the femininess but her brain is saying 'no way'......feminine overload. You need he-man.

Also, without stating the obvious there are women who do like more feminine, adrogenous males. Unless you were all feminine when she feel in love it is hard to reprogram what she desires.

I like guys with no body hair, I love guys who wear make up and have androgenous style and earings and all that stuff. That is part of my genetic map, that gender bending sexyiness I like , comes naturally to me. I can't help that I find it attractive. There was no need to 'convince' me to talk me into finding it sexy. Or desireable. I can't start to like more super masculine Brad Pitt types (well unless he is chicked out), it just is not part of what I desire. You can beg and plead, but I don't find muscluar big strong guys sexy. I like smaller shorter guys with soft hands and well moisturized faces.......

It is hard to see past all the pro's when the con's go against everything you find desirable.

And also ditto what Tamara said about clothing has nothing to do with being more sensative. I have known plenty of cds who could care less how their wife feels and ingore their wives.

Being sensative, caring, compassionate, and attentive is something you either are or are not. What you are wearing has nothing to do with it.

kathy in canada

I'm a bit confused about something. A while back, when my little hobby became known to my wife, she hit the roof and the s**t really flew. One of the things she said, or rather shouted, at the time was that she liked "masculine men", and wanted her husband to be a "man's man". Yet when women complain about the men in their lives, mine included, the first thing they complain about is that their men are uncaring, insensitive, not in touch with their emotions, inattentive to them and their needs....we all know the list. From much of what I've seen, those of us who engage in crossdressing have gone a long way towards meeting many of those needs. Yet, as in the case we see right now with Michele, wives often simply do not accept a crossdressing husband even when his crossdressing has made him a more compatable spouse because of the "fringe benefits" of his becomming more caring, sensitive, attentive, etc. And then women wonder when we say that nothing makes them happy.......

[LouiseW]

Tamara,
Point taken but... I think it's what we are inside that makes us want to wear your skirts and hose. I think we are a third sex in a binary world. I think we want to be your equal rather than your complement. It's not about who's on top. Just one TG's opinion.

[kathy gg]

.... about how our world has changed desirability perceptions is on the female side as well. Way back in middle ages and beyond a larger female, a female who would provide healthy and strong babies was desirable. Given the mortality rate at the time finding a woman with large hips and a large bosom were signs of fertility and ablity to not only survive childbirth but to be able to go back to her duties quickly after giving birth.

But, my how that image changed, no longer are more curvy women considered attractive. WOmen who are super slim, with very toned bodies and lean muscle mass are the hot property. Part of what mainstream culture considers attractive. I mean women who look like Nicole Kidman are considered sexy while all the Catherine Manheims of the wolrd are not. Go back sevearl thousand years ago and Nicole would have been tossed aside.
Boyish bodies, slim hips, flat stomachs are desirable now. Women who are plus sized are demonized as being out of shape and lazy.
Desirablity perceptions do change over time.

Maybe if you all wait around long enough that genetic desire for a feminized guy will come 'round. Right now having a womanly body is not what many men want.


Just another .02

kathy in canada

[Kimberly]

Imagine it was the other way around and your wife was a FTM CD... she wanted to be the masculine one in the house, do the 'man' stuff..... how would you feel about a woman taking over your territory??

Dammit, let her have it - as long as she's a size 10, 34B and has a free wardrobe of clothes!!

Sounds like a fair deal to me.

Kidding... I'd have a husband if I wanted that! Except for the clothes... damn it, I need to shop!

But now because of our modern times women are conflicted with their primal need to have the he-man but also have a man willing to stick around the cave even after dinner has been served. We want faithfulness, cooperation, equality.

Let me ask you; can't men have this conflict to NOT be who they "should be" just because of some dated society system??

Sorry, I retract that comment - I'm tired and pissed off. I just want equality.

xx

[susandrea]

[SIZE="4"]Women want [/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"]Women get [/SIZE]
:joke:

[Julie York]

I understand both points of view.

The fact is.....and it is part of us....that you are genetically programmed to want a particular image in your partner.

It is very primitive. Men protect and provide. Women nuture and breed. Yeah yeah we KNOW all the stuff that we are supposed to think in some higher developed self. But I can understand a woman being unable to cope with a man who isn't a man in their eyes. I can understand a man who can't cope with a woman who is too 'manly'.

The only way I can see that you can get your mind round it is to see elements of a personality. The guy in the bank with his suit and tie..when you get to know him is going out listening to heavy metal bands. The woman all prim in the Bulding Society is actually a biker speed freak at weekends.

The guy who mends engines likes to dress up as a woman in his spare time.

When you get your head round the fact that people are really very multifaceted then it comes together.

And kathy gg.
You are bombarded by images every single day of what you are TOLD you should look like. But someone should ask MEN what they want and what they like and you'd be amazed! We like women! Not pretend ones. REAL ones! It's that genetic engineering you mentioned. Models are such because they are a minority! Sexy attractive women are WOMAN shaped.

[Erica4U]

I understand this train of thought in women. In men it is gazing a a womans breasts or her walk or her nicely shaped rear or highheels her bra etc. I have run into this situation a few times! I am a very masculine looking man with a large build structurally. I am personable and I have little problem talking to females. When we have seen each other a couple of times and have even been intimate, I may mention something about having a desire to wear women's clothing and normally what happens is that she thinks you are fantasizing and or your kidding. Once revealed they leave! I have only met three women in 10 years who not only enjoyed it but was very wonderful in being mentors in my feminine learning. It is very true that I am more in tune to a woman's feelings and share their thoughts and even understand "Girl Talk"! I am not feminine in my actions when I am "male" and I have honed my skills in walking and gestures in my feminine personna. The adage' when I was growing up and is still prevalent today is..."A woman wants to marry a nice, sensitive, caring, understanding and helpful man to be husband.father of her children. Women though, want to have unbridled sex with a construction worker, gardner, police officer, firemen, body builders and most any man that is physically cut or in shape and younger and even brash, ill mannered, loud and of course will ravage them and has a very large member! I have had many a woman say, That is very true! When I would respond with, "What happens to the nice guy if you DO get laid by the alternative?" Answer, "He will more than likely always be ther and women are experts at faking it, so he probably will never know and i will never tell". Wonderful!! If a guy did that in a marriage, one, could count on that marriage breaking up!! Where is the Justice/

[suit]

on bbc they did a show on human sexuality ..
women nest with a good provider and then go mate with what they realy want , sort of bait and switch . you have been warned. way better than half the time they dont plan it .."it just happens", programed long ago. the show was realy inlightening .

[MaxineF]

There is a really good book called "Virus of the mind" that explains how our primal dna has never really caught up with modern life.
It talks about cultural virus's or "meme's" that dominate our behaviour.
If you are a believer of the theory then it will explain why women like thier men on the butch side of the spectrum.

It's an interesting read.

Maxine

[Helana]

There are 2 aspects to a relationship - the day to day friendship requirement and the sexual/desire requirement. Most women want the sensitive guy for friendship but desire a strong macho male sexually. By revealling to them that you are a CD you destroy any macho image they may have had of you.

It is because gender overlaps with sexuality that many women have a hard time accepting us. Non-CD have a hard time understanding the distinction. Plus of course absorbing society's prejudices over their lifetime does not help either. Some are just too prejudicd to even begin to try to understand us and make adjustments.

Julie quote "When you get your head round the fact that people are really very multifaceted then it comes together." is a great insight. We are all multifaceted so having someone who is both sensitive and desirable at the same time is easily achievable if we can overcome evolutionary and society prejudices.