This is why I find DADT so frustrating...

[Leslie Langford]

...and as a follow-up to my recent thread on the same topic, where I was looking for input on what I saw as a possible link between that, and the types of wives who are already controlling by nature.

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to spend the entire day as "Leslie". My original plan had actually been to attend the "Fall into Fashion with Nygard" fashion event hosted by that chain along with a well-known local stylist that I had previously mentioned in another post, but that was cancelled at the last minute due to a lack of interest (I had actually been the only one to respond and buy a ticket!). But for me to feel fully comfortable being en femme and immersed in a sea of GG's (or so I thought!), I had also arranged for my make up artist Kelly to do a professional makeover on me so that I would look my best and increase my chances of "passing".

With the event now having been cancelled, I had all this extra free time at my disposal, and in all fairness, didn't want to cancel out on Kelly and have my problem become her problem in terms of a lost revenue-generating opportunity for her. So, I decided to keep my appointment all the same, and just settle for looking awesome for an extended day of shopping, going to restaurants etc., and generally being out in public.

Well, to get to my point - I was a bit late for my appointment, and Kelly was already out on her front porch getting some fresh air while waiting for me. As she saw me approach her walkway, she shouted out a loud and friendly "Hi Leslie!" and as usual, gave me a great big hug. And all of this was out in the open, with no care as to what neighbours might be out and about, and more importantly - no worries about what they might think. We then went inside, I settled into her upstairs studio, we discussed what kind of look I was seeking that day, and and she got down to work.

We spent the next 1 1/4 hours chatting as usual about this, that, and the other just like a couple of girlfriends, and during that time, I was luxuriating in all that pampering that she bestows on me during these make up sessions. When it was over, we had our usual hug-filled good-byes, I paid her for her services (she always gives me a special deal as I am now one of her regular repeat customers), and I walked away happy and full of confidence as she always does such a great make up job on me.

Long story short, I spent the rest of the day shopping at both a Jones New York fashion outlet as well as Toronto's Yorkdale Mall, a mega-mall which is undergoing major renovations to become even more of a "go-to" place for fashionistas.

The Jones New York visit was a follow up to a shopping trip my wife and I had taken there a few weeks ago to buy her a number of things to replenish her wardrobe. I was in drab, and of course, I had to play the part of the stereotypically bored and pained better half while she was scouring the racks - all the while salivating inside at some of the fashions I spotted there that I knew would look good on my femme alter ego. So, a follow up visit by "Leslie" to shop her herself was definitely in the cards, and yesterday was my opportunity.

As for the Yorkdale renovations, they are also driven by the fact that some of the major U.S. retailers who aren't already active in Canada are now starting to head North for new business opportunities as the U.S. economy continues to be sluggish. Rumour even has it that Nordstrom's is going to establish itself here in the near future, and I can't wait to explore their famous clearance shoe racks that you U.S. gals keep raving about. But I digress...

Anyway, I spent the day trying on women's clothes and shoes, picked up a new dress and top, bought some make up, and capped off the evening with a meal in a nice restaurant. All day long, I was fussed over by attentive SA's and cashiers, encountered tons of smiles, was called "Ma'am" or "the lady" more times than I can count, and even got a few compliments on both my choices and what I was wearing. To say that I was in Heaven would be an understatement.

But then reality hit...

My wife knew that I was going out as "Leslie" (I no longer make any bones about that, her disapproval notwithstanding) and she made it very clear that she was unhappy about it. She also tried to pick a fight with me on numerous occasions the preceding evening with lots of guilt and manipulation thrown in for good measure to try to put me in a bad mood and make sure that I wouldn't enjoy my day out, but I just let it roll off my back like water off a duck's @ss.

And for the record, it's not that I don't understand her ambivalence about all this, and I am already doing the best I can to address my needs in this area while still respecting hers - it's the controlling an manipulative tactics that she uses to try to keep me on a short leash as opposed to being more amenable to compromise that really get my back up.

And so it was last night. I came home to a dark house, she was already in bed, and this morning, only a few short, curt words were exchanged before she went off to work. I can't wait to get my usual earful when she gets home tonight...

So my point is - I appear to live in two different worlds. "Leslie" is a "persona non grata" at home, my wife and I have a DADT relationship which has its ups and downs (more downs than ups lately), and there seems to be a continuing, underlying tension in our household over this, no matter how much I bend over backwards to accommodate her needs just to keep things in balance.

The other world is the one that "Leslie" inhabits, where she is universally liked and appreciated, treated with dignity and respect, and where people are intrigued by her and enjoy her company, rather than being put off by her.

It's truly a schizophrenic situation, and I can't help but wonder if there will ever come a point where the twain shall meet?

Then again, maybe the "twain" has already left the station...

[Thera Home]

Hi Leslie
Just remember it's a woman thing that you wife is expierencing. Sucks when the record keeps repeating itself but what the heck,its part of the deal right now. Once I find the cure for them I'll let you in on it

Thera

P.S. or maybe she's afraid you'll eventually want a mangina and run off with another guy

[Wildaboutheels]

Leslie, it looks to me like the handwriting is on the wall, the floor, and all over the ceiling too. She is NOT going to give up punishing you for being so "bad". It's one thing for her not to approve, and want nothing to do with it, but it's quite another for her to continue to treat you as a child about it.

Is it possible that your wife has "let herself go"? As in, YOU are more attractive when dressed than she is? Might be a contributing factor? Or maybe she never "dresses nicely" anymore? I personally don't buy that NO woman could ever be jealous of a male, husband or not, dressing as a woman especially if she is not happy with HERSELF.

Sounds to me, like she brings you a lot more pain than joy? If everything else is fine, you may just have to continue to live with it and/or ask yourself the question Ann Landers or Dear Abby always asked folks with problems. "Are you better off with them or without them"?

Only you can decide that.

[JamieG]

Wow, Leslie. That sounds rough. Obviously, I don't know much about you and your wife, but perhaps the two of you need to sit down and have a talk, screaming and all, if need be. My advice is to tell her that you get the feeling that the DADT is not working for her. Ask her what troubles her the most: is it that you might be recognized and then she'll be embarrassed when it come back to her? That harm might come to you while you're out as Leslie? That she feels Leslie is taking away time she can spend with the male you? Is she worried you are beginning to like being Leslie more than being the man she married? Once you know the root of the problem, maybe you can work together on a solution.

I found that my wife and I really turned a corner once she realized that she was more important to me than my femme side was. One night, I had made plans to go out en femme with TG friends and was really looking forward to it. She had just had a rough day, was feeling sick and was not looking forward to getting the kids to bed by herself. I was supposed to leave after dinner, but I asked her if she wanted me to bail on my plans to go out. She said "No, I know how important it is to you." It was then that I decided I would help her get the kids to bed and go out later (for a much shorter time out) once everyone was asleep. The fact that I did this on my own, rather than being "guilted" into it, meant a lot to her.

I wish both of you all the best!

[carhill2mn]

Hi Leslie,

It may not be of much comfort you know that there are many who are in a situation very similar to yours. That also means that many understand your feelings of frustration, etc.

I was once in a very similar situation. My wife's "acceptance" varied over the years. We, too, had a sort of DADT for awhile. She knew I went out en femme and did not like it. Eventually, another situation arose which led to my wife filing for a divorce. My CDing was only a part of the total picture. As part of telling our daughters and husbands about the pending divorce, my wife told them about my CDing. To her dismay, they were much more concerned about the divorce than my being a CD.

I now live alone and live en femme unless I am going to be with my family or friends who only know me as a man. I am happy though poorer (LOL).

Unfortunatey, there is little chance of your wife changing how she feels about your CDIng. This leaves you in an unpleasant state. None of the choices available to you are very pleasant. At some time you will be forced to choose the "lesser of evils".

I wish you best!

[Jamie Ann]

This seems like a situation where compromise is needed. She is not wild about your “Leslie persona” and crossdressing more generally; and you are not wild about giving up or suppressing a part of yourself that you consider basic and perhaps vital to your happiness. That calls for a compromise where each person makes some concessions, and each person gets enough of what they want to be okay with it.

Why does she dislike your crossdressing? Is it a Deuteronomy 22:5 situation? Does she think that she would lose friends if they knew about Leslie? Do you have kids that she thinks would be teased or even bullied at school if word got out that a parent was a crossdresser? Or what is her fear? On the other side of the situation, what do you dislike about her attitudes or behavior? Is it a feeling that you’re being controlled as opposed to being treated as an equal partner? Is it a feeling that you would not be true to yourself if you tried to get rid of Leslie? Would you be unhappy, cross, and hard to get along with without at least occasional feminine expression? Or what is your apprehension?

Once you know what each person fears and what each person wants, you are in a better position to forge a successful compromise. Give a little and get a little. (If only we could teach people in the US Congress to do that … I’d let them all crossdress at my house!)

[Barbara Ella]

Leslie, you have so much more to deal with than a simple DADT relationship. You are more in a DADTDDIDI. DADT and Dont Do It Damn It. My wife was in a total DADT phase for awhile, but she knew why I had to dress, and would not deny me that. It was lonely not to have her to talk to during this time, but I did dress without any guilt trips like those you are subjected. These constant harangues can strain even the most solid relationships. It is not like you are ignoring her, and even go shopping with her. It is just her nature to opt for that kind of negative input to your going on. I am sure that psychologically there is a very deep explanation, but it is not a healthy activity.

I just hope you can remain positive and not let these rants upset you and turn you negative. Just tell her you love her, and then lie and say you understand, even if you dont, but you are sorry your life has been made this way. Yes, words are easy to say here, but I really hope you are strong.

Hugs, Barbara

[Annette Todd]

Mayb e she is jealous of some of the relationships you have with other women regardless if they are platonic and professional. Or maybe it is that she fears the confidence you display as Leslie. That may be an area of discussion for you and your wife.
I think it’s great that you can be out and receive such acceptance. What I wouldn’t give…

Cheers

Maybe she would like to be more involved and sees Leslie as a threat to your relationship!?

[bobbimo]

I have to work with the Government all day and the barrage of acronyms drives me in sane.
So I have to ask WTF is DADT?
Thanks
Bobbi

[mikiSJ]

Leslie

From your post it appears you have already made the decision and are worried about the possible retribution from your wife. I also don't think there is any "ambivalence" in your wife's position.

I can't come out and say run, but then at what point will the relationship between Leslie and your wife force the issue. It is a festering relationship and don't let it go for so long that the cure is unbearable.

Miki

[mikiSJ]

DADT = Don't Ask Don't Tell. It comes from the legislation Clinton signed as a "compromise" to not purge gays from the military. It didn't work in practice, because there was always someone willing to Tell.

Miki

[ReineD]

My wife knew that I was going out as "Leslie" (I no longer make any bones about that, her disapproval notwithstanding) and she made it very clear that she was unhappy about it. She also tried to pick a number of fights the preceding evening with lots of guilt and manipulation thrown in for good measure to try to put me in a bad mood and make sure that I wouldn't enjoy my day out, but I just let it roll off my back like water of a duck's @ss.

And for the record, it's not that I don't understand her ambivalence about all this, and I am already doing the best I can to address my needs in this area while still respecting hers - it's the controlling an manipulative tactics that she uses to try to keep me on a short leash as opposed to being more amenable to compromise that really get my back up.

And so it was last night. I came home to a dark house, she was already in bed, and this morning, only a few short, curt words were exchanged before she went off to work. I can't wait to get my usual earful when she gets home tonight...

You and your wife will simply need to call a truce on this, and agree to disagree. You get to go out and enjoy yourself as Leslie on occasion while gladly acknowledging that your life together will be conducted as husband and wife the rest of the time, and you will not judge or resent your wife's non-participation, in return for a promise that she will make a concerted effort to not judge you or resent you when you are expressing Leslie.

Surely your wife will be able to understand, once you point it out to her, that the fights prior to a day of going out and the silent treatment following it, has an effect on your peace of mind. And also that you feel in a terrible bind when you take steps to express yourself occasionally (without involving your wife out of respect for her feelings), knowing that it causes your wife such distress. You might ask her if she can think of a solution that will resolve this dilemma, while recognizing that you cannot stop being who you are.

That said, and following JamieG's post, THE most significant breakthrough for my SO and I was when she told me (after I had a meltdown one evening feeling that it didn't matter to her if I was in her life or not), that she did love me and she cared a great deal for my feelings. She further said that even though she could not stop being who she is, she would gladly not dress or switch back to male mode anytime that I felt vulnerable in my own life and needed him in guy mode. No questions asked. Just knowing this dispelled a lot of misconceptions I had about her gender expression and I've got to say that I have not felt the need to ever ask her to not be herself when she was dressed.

[bobbimo]

Thanks Miki,
I guess I should have guess that but didnt put it in context with a wife.

[Lynn Marie]

[SIZE="4"]DADT is pretty much like building a wall between you and your spouse. You can talk and be friends, but there's always this "other woman" that she naturally doesn't care for. Can you blame her?

The only way this is going to work is for your wife to embrace the "other woman" and make her a friend too. Otherwise it's just a life of tension and other difficulties. When a woman, or a man for that matter, doesn't like something that is happening around them, it's pretty much impossible not to show disdain in a multitude of subtle and not-so-subtle ways.[/SIZE]

[GaleWarning]

That said, and following JamieG's post, THE most significant breakthrough for my SO and I was when she told me (after I had a meltdown one evening feeling that it didn't matter to her if I was in her life or not), that she did love me and she cared a great deal for my feelings. She further said that even though she could not stop being who she is, she would gladly not dress or switch back to male mode anytime that I felt vulnerable in my own life and needed him in guy mode. No questions asked. Just knowing this dispelled a lot of misconceptions I had about her gender expression and I've got to say that I have not felt the need to ever ask her to not be herself when she was dressed.

It seems to me that unless you feel the same way about your wife, Leslie, your marriage is doomed. The ball is in your court. You are going to have to initiate any negotiation. And as is always the case in any such discussion, both sides are going to have to be willing to compromise.

My experience of such negotiation is that it will take a considerable amount of time and talk to achieve the first break-through. You will go round and round and round and reach an apparent stalemate on more than one occasion. Take a breather, to think about what each of you has said and reflect on what this means for the negotiation. Then resume your discussion. This is very likely to happen several times and both of you will have to be prepared to deal with feelings of extreme frustration.

But rest assured, if both of you are committed to the process, the break-through will eventually come. and the rest of the process will proceed fairly quickly thereafter.

The alternative is that the two of you split up. DADT is not going to be an option in your case.

[kimdl93]

She's not succeeding with this manipulative approach and it's creating tensions. You know your wife better than anyone...so maybe you can find a way to discuss the way she seems to respond when she knows you're out and about. And in the process discuss ways that can be satifactory for both of you. Best of luck.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Leslie

My sympathy and understanding are with you.

I replied to your previous thread drawing on my experiences with my wife. I still wonder whether you could take a different approach - one that I have to take to keep my marriage and fulfil my needs. It draws upon the different types of situations that could collectively be described as DADT.

In my case I occasionally get an opportunity when travelling to dress but I ensure that my wife is not aware and therefore confronted by my actions. Yes, I would much rather us have an accepting open relationship but the only option in my case is to keep this part of me totally separate (I could have used the term 'divorced') from our marriage. To do otherwise would be highly confronting as it is in your case and ultimately result in losing my wife.

This strategy while working does admittedly have several negatives such as clothes being crinkled, not being able to share on all levels and a general disappointment on what we are collectively missing out on.

Your wife seems very similar to mine in her views on CDing. Discussion on compromise with some accommodation of dressing would not be productive with my wife but being open about you going out is confrontational and is likely to lead to an inevitable outcome.

Michelle

[linda allen]

Leslie, at your current pace, you and your wife are heading for a divorce. You are bound and determined to do something that clearly bothers your wife. You are going to do it and she is going to make you pay for it. No good can come of this if it continues.

You keep saying your wife is "controlling" but she doesn't seem to be controling your dressing (and going out dressed), you are still doing it. She is just showing her dissaproval by her attitude towards you.

If you want to stay married to your wife and want to have a happy, satisfying marriage, you both need to compromise. You need to sit down and talk about why you feel the need to go out (without her) as a female and why it bothers her so much.

From what I get from reading your posts, it's not just the dressing, it's the going out and having fun without her just like it might be if you spent all your free time with your male buddies fishing or playing poker.

The bottom line is, it's up to you to fix this with your wife or split up and set each other free. Strangers on a web forum agreeing with you that your wife is "controlling" will not help your situation.

[Sara Jessica]

The only way this is going to work is for your wife to embrace the "other woman" and make her a friend too. Otherwise it's just a life of tension and other difficulties.

I couldn't disagree more.

Our SO's don't have any obligation whatsoever to embrace the TG side in their SO. For many of them, this whole thing sucks beyond belief. The solution is not forced participation and ramming it down their throats.

DADT generally refers to zero acceptance of the dressing done by one's spouse - "keep it hidden," "don't let me see anything to do with it" - which sounds like your position. Understand, though, there are various levels beyond DADT.

It'd help if DADT was defined correctly. Not that I'm splitting hairs here but zero acceptance is not the baseline of DADT. Otherwise, we'd be talking about just that, zero acceptance.

I see DADT as tolerance to a certain degree without participation. Usually there is no visual interaction (pictures, hanging out, etc) and little discussion.

Yes, "keep it hidden" & "don't let me see anything do do with it" are important elements in DADT. Often this means the feminine trappings are kept hidden away. Leave something lying around by accident and there might be hell to pay. No, she isn't likely to want to see pictures from outings and isn't going to be thrilled to hear about the new heels you just bought.

Leslie, at your current pace, you and your wife are heading for a divorce.

Disagree here too.

As is often the case, Reine's advise is amazing....

I wouldn't have a problem with my wife not wanting anything to do with it, in fact that IS pretty much where my wife and I are at. The "problem" in the OP, is that the wife wasn't happy with just not being a part of it, but instead felt compelled to make Leslie feel like shit about it the night before - again something that I also see with my wife from time to time.

Wanting nothing to do with it is perhaps understandable and livable, but being mean and hurtful about Leslie going out is a bit more than that isn't it?

...and Kimberly brings the issue down to it's most basic element.

I can totally relate to all of this because I too am in somewhat of a DADT relationship. And what happened to Leslie has happened to me in the past as well. The difference is that I don't believe my wife did it on purpose. She knows my outings are important for my sanity and generally gives me the space I need, even running interference as needed to help me get in or out of the house as well as those oft-needed "fibs" to friends and family when I'm out & about.

There have been a couple occasions where she has made me feel like crap as I embark on an outing but usually the reason is something else that is going on. The last time this happened, I explained to her how such comments make me feel and ever since she is very careful to avoid issues as I'm heading out.

Leslie, our DADT is a bit different than yours but I think you might see in my example Reine's advice put into practice. I hope it helps in some way.

Doormat, as Paula said, your viewpoint IS wanted here, whether it is flattering to us or not, hurtful to us or not, it is an honest opinion from a woman who loves one of us.

I totally agree with Kimberly. The reality of your posts Doormat (forgive me, I hate to call anyone Doormat) hits home and is very important. I hope you keep on participating. I for one will never try to sway you by saying being married to a TG individual is all hunky dory (because in many cases it most certainly isn't) but I will encourage you to open a discussion with someone like Reine who I'm sure has fought through many of the issues you describe.

[Leslie Langford]

First of all, ladies - thank you for all your valuable inputs, as well as the time you have taken to share your insights.

I especially appreciate those responses into which some of you have obviously put considerable thought, as well as the support that most of you have shown towards my dilemma (plight?). And DoorMat, your input was particularly valuable coming as it does from the other side of the fence, so to speak - even if it was a bit of a cold shower. But that's to be expected, as this is a very complex issue with no absolute black or white or right or wrong, and we are all struggling to one degree or another as to what to make of it all.

There is much information here to process, but the overall consensus seems to be that in my case, things have simply gone too far and positions become so entrenched that there is no easy way out. My wife and I have discussed our respective positions ad infinitum (ad nauseum?), and it now seems to come down to a case of the irresistible force meeting the immovable object, and likely no good can come out of this.

Many of you have expanded on the DADT theme and made the very valid point that there are also various shades of DADT within this umbrella term. There is the benign (and basic) form, which essentially assumes the position that "you do your thing, and I'll do mine - I just don't want to hear about it." I suspect that in real life - that rarely exists in such a pure form as we are all human beings, and at some point, emotions get in the way despite our best efforts to remain logical about all this. But that's probably still O.K., because the partners in this scenario can usually bounce back from a blow-up and resume "normal" relations.

Mine seems to be the more extreme case because - as some have pointed out - it goes beyond DADT and degenerates into pure control mode on the part of the wife or SO. This is why I made the link in my original post between my assessment that DADT is perhaps sometimes symptomatic of much deeper issues that such a wife or SO might have, and which then turn her into a "control freak" - not only in this instance, but in other ways in which she approaches her life and her marriage. I would even venture to say that it enters into the realm of bullying in some cases.

I am not trained specialist in this area, but there have been events in my wife's past that occurred before we met that lead me believe that this may well be the case with her, and hence the overreaction to my crossdressing. But it's one thing to recognize that and be sympathetic to it - it is a far different thing to constantly be on the receiving end of her anxieties and in effect often becoming a lightning rod for them.

Yes, some of you may have taken me to task for finally adopting a hard line here, and simply doing my "Leslie" thing without feeling any guilt or remorse anymore - albeit still in such a way that it is not directly in my wife's face out of a fundamental respect for her and her position on this matter. But I also have to be cognizant of my own mental health here - selfish as that may sound to some - and I don't want to risk falling into a depression because I am forced to repress something that is so fundamental to my very being - and for no better reason than "I don't like it, and I don't want any part of it...".

Granted, that's maybe a bit of a simplistic way of putting it, but that is what it boils down to. And let's keep our crossdressing in perspective here. It is not as destructive an activity as alcoholism, drug abuse, or gambling, we are typically not child molesters or pornographers, and by most accounts are not only faithful to our wives and SO's - we are typically more so than the average male who - given half a chance - is very susceptible to straying from the straight and narrow.

It is also important to remember here that we did not choose to be transgendered and be driven to crossdress - transgenderism chose us. At the end of the day, it is all about clothes and expressing a repressed gender identity, and not about cheating on our partners with another, flesh-and-blood woman.

That said, yes, my wife has on occasion compared "Leslie" to being the "other woman" in our relationship and accused me of "emotionally cheating" with her. Personally, I think that's a bit of a stretch, but that's also my fundamentally male brain speaking here...

Bottom line - each of us here is doing the best we can to cope with our respective situations, and are fully aware of the impact that it has on our loved ones. Sure, we have made mistakes and will continue to do so. I just wish that some our wives and SO's could cut us some slack as we work through this rather than assume an overtly hostile reaction to it.

There's no need to pile on the guilt - we already have it in spades, and most of us are willing to do whatever we can to compensate for our crossdressing needs in other aspects of our marriages so that our wives will realize that we are still fundamentally good and caring people, and that they didn't make a huge mistake in getting involved with us in the first place.

[GaleWarning]

There is much information here to process, but the overall consensus seems to be that in my case, things have simply gone too far and positions become so entrenched that there is no easy way out. My wife and I have discussed our respective positions ad infinitum (ad nauseum?), and it now seems to come down to a case of the irresistible force meeting the immovable object, and likely no good can come out of this.

.

You need a game breaker, Leslie, if this is the case. A mediator, be it mutual friend or total stranger (therapist or divorce lawyer, the two of you must decide) who can break the stalemate and either get the marriage back on track or dissolve it as amicably as possible.

Are both of you that committed to your relationship to the extent that each of you is willing to compromise?
Or are both of you so pig-headed that neither is prepared to give a little, and tragedy is inevitable?

Your posts do not tell us, so far.

Want do you really want so badly that you are willing to live the rest of your life with the consequences of your next decision?

[TGMarla]

I found this thread to be particularly interesting. Leslie, you told me quite some time back about your DADT situation, and suggested that our situations were very much the same. But that really isn't the case, as you have taken Leslie further than I've taken Marla. I don't get out much as Marla; to date, I have only taken Marla out when my wife is out of town.

Ours has been a very real DADT situation, in that she never brings it up, and doesn't chastise me about it. On the other hand, I don't dress around her, I have everything put away before she comes home, and I don't press the issue. She has somewhat educated herself on TG issues, and has shown quite a bit of understanding when she discusses such issues with me. It's just that my own situation doesn't much come up in the conversation.

When you got home after she'd already gone to bed, you came into your house with your wife already there, and you were fully en femme. That's something I've never done. I'm not passing judgement on it. I'm just saying that that's something I've never done. And I think that pushes the envelope a bit, at least to a place I've never pushed it. Thus far, I've been able to play out my moments as Marla without a specific need to go out a whole lot. I find it exhilarating, and a lot of fun to go out, but it hasn't become a specific need for me. I'm sure it's different for everyone.

I understand completely why any woman might have a problem with this. Doormat (change your name, please. I refuse to wipe my feet on you) says it perfectly when she states that once she sees her man en femme, it is impossible for her to scrub that image from her mind, and that she'll forever see him differently in her own eyes. I get that. I wouldn't want my wife behaving in an equal and opposite way, hypocritical as that may sound.

I don't agree that one set outcome to all of this is inevitable. The future is always fluid, and is always subject to our manipulations. If both sides get entrenched, though, then it will be a long, tough engagement. The secret to any relationship is always compromise.

Leslie, I wish you the best. I have no advice to give you. My own situation is not one that many of us could live with. I have little (but not "no") desire to push that envelope with her. I am mostly content with things the way they are. However, I did make an aquaintance at the TG New Mexico meeting last week who has invited me to lunch tomorrow. I accepted, and I will go as Marla. That will mark the first time that I've ventured out in any real way when my wife is not out of town.

Sigh. Ours is a very strange road to travel. Welcome Mat (hey, beats "Doormat"), please try to understand that this is something we are strongly compelled to do, and that we didn't necessarily choose this path. Our aim is not to hurt anyone with this behavior, but so often, our loved ones do get hurt. It is not intentional, and when we do hurt those we love, it hurts us, too.

[Amy07]

Hey, I see DADT, i see the military view. Yes, the DoD changed that. Much to the better, I think, and I work there.
I see here that you all use DADT as casual term for the general CD/TG chat here.
Not a great idea, and you should respect the DADT folks in the military. DADT is an American term, focused on one regulation, works out very well.
You should not use DADT with your personal lives.

[Stephanie47]

I think Marla and I are in similar situations. I do not want my wife's participation in my cross dressing, if it is going to (a) make her feel like crap, and, (2) destroy why I believe I like wearing women's clothing. I have to respect my wife's unstated desires to totally avoid the issue. Yes, we did have that period of discussion of the basics; Are you gay? Do you want to be a woman? When I was younger I did venture out several Halloween's and present as a woman. I too have ventured out for an evening stroll when my wife has been across country. I actually found it refreshing, but, I also grew tired of it; boring to walk around alone. On occasion my wife has found a feminine garment (white nylon panty and a red bra) and carefully put it where a visitor would not see it. She also found my breasts forms in the kitchen sink; water balloons (less expensive since I do not venture out much). She did not raise hell about it. I can get my dose of Stephanie in the home and the backyard. I am content because cross dressing is a stress reliever for me. I love to cook and bake, en femme or not. I do the household chores en femme or not, but, I do prefer the June Cleaver look.

A relationship that is marked by fighting over the issue is not a 'Don't Ask, Don't tell' relationship. Amy is probably correct in stating DADT is more appropriate for the military. In the forum DADT is more akin to 'I know you do it! Don't do it around me!'

There are other issues here. It seems there is a failure to negotiate boundaries that are acceptable to both parties. That does not confer there ever will be mutually acceptable boundaries. If one wants to venture out and have interaction with society, then there are expanded issues of 'DADT' going on. How does a wife block images out of her mind, if she has seen her groom in a dress? Yes, it will forever change her image of him, negatively or positively. How does she feel when she hears the door slam and the car drive away when she knows he is en femme? I know others have stated their spouses have said to go out of town, get a hotel room, dress, undress, and come home.

What is being described here is NOT a DADT relationship.

[Thera Home]

Leslie

I believe at this point you need to back off on the CDing a little. Like some have said, you have quite the freedom of being leslie and out and about and coming home after the wife gets home. My wife would not even tolerate that let alone knowing that Im hanging around with other GG's. Maybe your wife has finally reached her limit. Maybe she has tried to deal with it and has tolerated it for you and you have taken that privledge and pushed beyond her limits therefore she's reacting in the only way she knows how. "ATTITUDE". My advise is to focus on her at this point and reassure her that she's the one that's important to and not the other stuff in your life.

Thera