Should I Stay or Shoud I Go?

[StephanieJ]

Help, I'm so confused!!!

My wife and I have been separated for about two months now. We have divorce papers drawn up but not signed. She invited me to lunch today to say that she wants to consider getting back together.... She says that my cross dressing is her main issue but if she doesn't have to see it or hear about it then she would be willing to reconcile. She is very religious and believes that if I pray more and read my scriptures that God will help us.

From my point of view cross dressing is NOT the only issue. She has Borderline Personality Disorder (PBD) and in the past few years our relationship has deteriorated into downright cruelty. She is on medication but still criticizes everything I do and then a week later says it's okay. Our sex-life has been practically non-existent for about three years (by my choice, not hers) mainly because I don't consider her a “safe” person. I have been seeing an excellent therapist in Las Vegas but my next appointment isn't for a few weeks. I asked my wife (who is a therapist herself) go to counseling with me, but she said, “no” so we might be at an impasse anyway.

I knew this day would be come and promised myself that I would be strong. Now I'm wavering... Give me strength. Do I run back to her (as I have done in the past), or do I stick to my guns and risk loosing her forever? We have been married 18 years and have four children ages 7 – 15 so this is not an easy decision. I love her and want to be together but she makes me feel like shiz when I'm around her.

I've ordered a couple books my therapist recommended:
“Walking on Eggshells” by Paul Mason,
“Cross Dressing with Dignity” by Peggy J. Rudd
“The Divorce Remedy” by Michele Weiner Davis.

I hope they help, in the mean time, I would love any advice from those of you who have been there...

Love and respect,
Stephers


PS. This whole thing could almost spur a second thread listing songs that reflect my situation. They would include:
“We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together” by Taylor Swift
“Dark Side” by Kelly Clarkson
“Should I Stay or Should I Go” by The Clash
(others?)

[GaleWarning]

May I suggest you get hold of a book entitled
Choices: Taking Control of Your Life and Making It Matter
by Melody Beattie,
published by Harper & Collins?

Before you go making a decision informed only by the crossdressing aspect of the problem, her book will engage your (and your wife's) thinking on other issues.
It's a splendid book!!!

As ever, good luck.

[Kaz]

Tough one and I feel for you. I have not been in this specific position, but I have been through some tough episodes... My immediate thought is this... You have 4 kids age 7 - 15. They would be my priority... #1. Nothing else is as important as they are...

So my advice... everything you think and do you put them centre stage... if it is not in their interests.. do not do it!

Just some thoughts... maybe not helpful... but you will regret it big time if you do not look to them first...

[Stephanie47]

It's always a sad day when a marriage fails, especially with children. If you wife was willing to enter a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" marriage, and, that was the ONLY issue, I'd say give it a trial reconciliation. However, if there are other serious issues, then it may be wiser to make the separation final. Cross dressing will always be an issue. If the children do not already know of your cross dressing, I'd suspect it can be made a wedge between you and your wife. Children are really better off with separated/divorced parents than living in a household of hostility. And, if your wife refuses to enter counseling, I suspect SHE feels you're the issue and she is the victim. One of those situations of "Oh my, I didn't realize my husband was a cross dresser."

[Amalthea]

I have not been there myself because every situation is different so no advice from me. Yes an experience of divorce, but nowhere when there were beautiful kids involved. What do you mean by "safe" person? You have been married 18 years. What do the books and songs have anything to do with the immediate issue? You say this situation occured in the past and you stayed with your wife previously, or, maybe she remained with you (and kids) every time.

Good luck luv.

[StephanieJ]

Thanks for the quick replies and the book recommendation. I'll add it to my wish list.

The children really are our #1 priority. Right now I have them three nights a week and they are doing great. They have a comfortable home and so do I. Despite her challenges, my wife is an excellent mother! I have no concerns about that at all. In fact I'm on my way to pick them up right now. I know we'll have a good weekend together.

[KellyJameson]

You may also want to read about trauma bonds, cognitive dissonance and co-dependency.

It is very dangerous to your psychological well being to be involved with someone who has BPD.

I would also recommend reading "Mothers with Border Personality Disorder"

Crossdressing becomes a non issue when abuse is involved in my opinion.

[Diversity]

Hi Stephanie,
This is a tough situation, and one that with limited information is tougher still for any of us to offer you solid advice. Only you know your own heart and how the situation deeply affects you. You admitted that you still love her and want to be around her, so it seems to me that you should develop a tougher skin and realize that when she makes you feel like 'shiz', as you said, that you can take this in stride and recognize there is more to your relationship than the cruel words.
Also, you have four children to consider. I would do everything in my power to ensure that they are safe, loved, and happy. If it means a few more years of you working through things with your wife, as difficult as they are, for their benefit, then I would do it without question. Your children need to be your top priority until at least they are out of the house and on their own.
Continue to seek counseling and therapy, and just know there is a greater good in doing the right thing for your children. Good luck to you all.
Di

[heatherdress]

I endured what appears to be a very similar marriage. My spouse was BPD and was cruel and abusive. Divorce was painful but a blessing. You have to do what is best for you and your children. If she is abusive and cruel to your children, you must protect them, too. It will hurt them if you remain in a loveless, abusive relationship. You think you love her - but who do you love? Someone who can't love you and who abuses you. Do not wait weeks to see a therapist in LasVegas. Get help now and move on. Be strong. This is not about crossdressing. If she really is BPD, abusive, cruel and unloving - end the pain. Good luck.

[AnitaH]

I'm sorry you're in such a difficult situation. Speaking for myself I would make counselling a part of any reconciliation. If she really wants the marriage to work and to get back together then she should be willing to go to counselling together with you. My concern is that she wants you back but is not willing to work with you to make any changes in the marriage. As for the children, it can't be good for the children when mom and dad are so stressed with each other. If it's not a healthy environment for you it can't be any better for them. Only you can make the decision and there may be no really good choice. Having been in a very similar situation many years ago I can only say I understand your pain. You have my sympathy.

AnitaH

[Angela Campbell]

It is a sad thing. I know. I am going through my second divorce. Nothing to do with dressing. Kids involved? That is something to consider. Can the relationship be amicable enough to provide a home for the children? If it is possible but it means living with someone you do not want to live with ...well I would consider trying just for the kids. However......if like my first marriage.....the situation is so negative it is even bad for the kids then that has to be considered. I do not know your situation but I always leanto the side of doing what is best for the kids even if I am miserable.

[Miriam-J]

Stephanie,

It sounds like you have quite a dilemma to address. I've been in a similar situation before with a troubled marriage (after 20 years), but with different characteristics (CDing wasn't an issue). Once I came to appreciate a few thoughts my decision was an easy one:
- While I could put up with anything, our differences were keeping both of us from being very effective parents when together
- There was no realistic chance of our finding a way to bridge very serious fundamental differences
- Divorce is not the problem, but one solution to a very difficult problem

Living separately we've provided better parenting to my son then we ever could together, and we've been able to address some of his serious issues that had seemed unsolvable for so many years. Further, my ex and I have each found peace in the new lives that we needed to pursue.

You may find that none of my revelations is relevant to you, but I hope you can find your own critical understandings to move beyond this point. I wish you well.

Miriam

[STACY B]

Hey ,,, A bunch of us were in the same boat an waited till the kids were grown . So this is your call ,,,I waited ,,But you do whatever you think is best . Just try an Work alot an think about it less ,,, Heyyyyyy I'm Just saying ,,,,, GEEZ ,,, Worked for me ,, But my wife didn't freak ,,But I kept it under wraps to ,, Worked an Drank ,,, In that order ,,,

[kimdl93]

Honestly, she needs to understand, if she can, that rejecting a part of you...and using religious justifications...is still rejection. I don't know whether it can work...you need her to change her thinking and she's insistent that part of you is unacceptable to her. Ask her how she would deal with the situation if she was in your heels.

[Barbara Ella]

Only you will know. You have a lot of advice so far, and I can add none with any experience toward your situation. The one question I have relates to your wife's behavior. You say she is a therapist, recognized her BPD i presume, yet still continues to abuse you. My question is has she really recognized and addressed this behavior, and taken any steps to stop. If she has taken steps, there may be hope, if she has not in the past, you very well may be miserable. Then the question comes is the benefit to the children worth the suffering. Best of luck.

Barbara

[ReineD]

Pros:
You love her.
You want to be with her.
Your four children are ages 7-15.
She wants to reconcile, which means that she loves you too.

Not sure if pro or con:
She is willing to change her views on the CDing, at least to the point where you can dress as long as she doesn't see it.
It was your choice to have halted your sex life 3 years ago.

Cons:
She has or hides behind a religious objection to the CDing.
She will not go to counseling.
She has PBD which makes her critical of you.
You do not feel safe with her and she makes you feel like a shiz.



I agree with Clayfish, you need to learn how to manage your codependency, and Melody Beatty's books are very good for this. If you recognize that your wife has medical issues that affect her mood, then you can learn to not allow her medical condition disturb your inner landscape. And you can certainly learn to define your boundaries when she behaves poorly. It can be as simple as, "I need to discuss this rationally, so I would like to shelve the discussion until you can speak to me without anger. When would you like to resume the conversation?" Or, "I no longer wish to be criticized for everything that I do. It makes me feel as if you believe me to be worthless. I understand your need to let me know when you are unhappy, so I would like you to save all the criticism until a specific time of day that we can agree on, when we can sit down together to calmly address them all at once.

This would take care of the last two items under the "Cons". The second item can be a point of negotiation for you. You could agree to getting back together, providing she commit to a minimum of x sessions with a marital therapist. Be sure to tell her that the goal of therapy is not to "convert" her to acceptance of the CDing, but rather for the two of you to learn appropriate relationship skills so that you can both deal with your differences respectfully. So now you are only left with the first item in the Cons list, to weight against the 3 items in the Pros list. You could tell your wife that you respect her religious views, but you would like her to respect the fact that you feel differently.

You do not mention whether or not you feel that you will be satisfied with a DADT relationship.

And now the Pros: how important are they to you?

[Beverley Sims]

Throughout a marriage there are a lot of ups and downs.
It is too easy to throw in the towel and then create two new empty lives that need to be filled with love.
I say, work at what you have already, talk it through and do not be selfish and blame the other party.
It takes two to tango you have probably been selfish yourself and a little humanity let in will help a long way.
It is a lot less expensive and probably a great joy to give it another try.
It will never be the same again, but it could be better.

[Sharon B.]

The religious aspect of it has a lot of people upset about what we were born to do. My belief is God created all of us the good the bad, some of us are straight as an arrow some like the same sex and some of us like to dress as women.
Only you can decide what is right for you. I don't have kids only four legged animals and they don't care one or another as long as I take care of them, I'm sure your kids understand that also as long as you love and cherish them.

[jillleanne]

This is not really a great place to be asking for advice on divorce really. However, regardless of the divorce issue, no relationship will work if only one person is willing to make changes if necessary and I have never read of any God that would endorse that idea either. If only one person has a problem in a relationship, then the other person needs to stand in a mirror and ask themsleves how it is they became so damn perfect.

[Sally24]

Like Doctors making the worst patients, I think therapists may have real problems being in therapy themselves. Regardless, if she won't go to counseling then there is very little future for you two. She has to take responsibility for at least half of the relationship. Without that you are just exposing yourself to more stress. Stay strong and make her either chose to end it for good, or compromise and get into couples therapy. Good luck!

[linda allen]

Stephanie, we only have your side of the story and we have no qualifications as marriage counsellors anyway. You are seeing a professional and I think you need to work this out yourself with the help of a professional. This is something that will affect the rest of your life and the lives of your children and other family members. I don't think you should be asking for advice on such a life changing issue on a web forum, especially a crossdressing web forum.

[Megan Briana]

I am a divorced father with three young ones. My crossdressing never played a part in the downfall because it started almost a year after the divorce. We had a lot of issues that in hindsight i really should have seen as destructive to a marriage. In the end, we both were for the divorce because neither of us wanted to have the kids see us that way (very long story there). I always swore that I loved her and that i would always love her. But again, hindsight is 20/20. Now a year and a half later, I have come to terms with things. I may have loved her but things that she had done throughout the marriage say otherwise. And my actions were not above reproach either, and in the end both of our actions started the divorce thing rolling. The love I felt for her has turned to sympathy for her and myself for having tried to make something from nothing.

When actions speak louder than words, the words hold less meaning. And when actions are destructive, no words need be heard beside the sincere echoes of "I'm sorry".

[ColleenA]

Living separately we've provided better parenting to my son then we ever could together ... Further, my ex and I have each found peace in the new lives that we needed to pursue.

Miriam

My situation was in ways similar to Miriam's. My ex and I were both unhappy in the marriage and unable to make it work, and our children clearly were suffering because of it. When we split, we agreed that we wanted them to get as little fallout as possible. Fortunately, we both honored that agreement.

For the next ten years, we never lived more than three miles apart, and we were both very involved in their schools, sports and scouting. It was a much better situation for our kids, and after a few years needed for healing, she and I were able to be friendly, not just civil, toward each other.

Could this work for you? I can't say. All I can tell you is what worked for me.

There is no "right" solution. There is only the solution you choose and, whatever it is, you will have to work at it for it to succeed.

[LilSissyStevie]

She has Borderline Personality Disorder (PBD) ...

Been there, done that! Don't be a glutton for punishment. I suggest the Witness Protection Program.

[carhill2mn]

The "other issues" that you mentioned will still be there. Her "tolerance" of your CDing may not continue. It is very unlikely that her attitude will change for the "better". Having been married to somone with tendencies toward depression and other issues for 44 years, I know that those "issues" will continue to be problems.

This is a difficult decision and needs very careful consideration.