Yes they have such a variety it's not fair
Wish I could wear the shoes and polish my toes
Yes they have such a variety it's not fair
Wish I could wear the shoes and polish my toes
Same here. I notice shoes (and pantyhose / stockings) constantly. A few times I've received the "how did you know that?" look, but it's quickly dissolved by stating that I'm married and have been shopping with my wife. Actually, my wife hates to shop, but they don't need to know that.Originally Posted by Debglam
LOL! I always have to be careful to not be too excited when one of my coworkers wears a new, or particularly attractive outfit! I KNOW I have violated the "guys don't notice shoes" rule way too many times!
**big deep sigh**
I've noticed an admiring glance sent my way, here and there over the years. I was flattered because I thought he was attracted to me and it made me feel good. You know, like I was fulfilling my primal role in the male/female relationship dynamic, which is girl and boy meet, boy is attracted to girl, girl selects him, and if the stars align they mate.I used to see my SO's eyes light up when he saw me, and this is one of the things about him that melted my heart and sent chills up my spine. I'd go out of my way to make myself as appealing as I could on the off chance that I'd run into him, because I wanted him to be attracted to me.
But according to the sentiments in this thread, it wasn't me at all, it was just my clothes!
Is it possible for CDers in general to be attracted to a woman as a man is normally attracted to a woman, without wishing he (or she) was wearing her clothes? Can this be separated at all?
Reine
For me Reine, I'm attracted to the *woman* first, only THEN envious of the outfit ... so there is hope
VS Fan
I have to watch out for this as well.I KNOW I have violated the "guys don't notice shoes" rule way too many times!
NewGirl, I can totally relate. I have the same situation at my office where I work with a bunch of smokin' hot 20 and 30 somethings who are great dressers.
I have that problem every time I leave the house women I envy the women isee and the styles they have on
Formerly Lolisa
**big deep sigh**
I've noticed an admiring glance sent my way, here and there over the years. I was flattered because I thought he was attracted to me and it made me feel good. You know, like I was fulfilling my primal role in the male/female relationship dynamic, which is girl and boy meet, boy is attracted to girl, girl selects him, and if the stars align they mate.
But according to the sentiments in this thread, it wasn't me at all, it was just my clothes!
Is it possible for CDers in general to be attracted to a woman as a man is normally attracted to a woman, without wishing he (or she) was wearing her clothes? Can this be separated at all?
Oh dear, Reine!
You're the one who normally answers everyone's problems.
You're the one who comes up with a solution when several different points of view are put forward, and you thrust your way through the middle.
Yes, of course it is possible for CDers in general to be attracted to a woman as a man is normally attracted to a woman.
I certainly am; I just love beautiful women; it would be wonderful to be one (so long as I don't have to be involved with men, ever).
I differ from most men, in that I am not a "leg person".
Short skirts, short dresses, minis, or shorts do absolutely nothing to me at all.
I much prefer long dresses, evening dresses, ballgowns – silk, satin, taffeta.
I realise that these are not very practical, so I'll settle for longish skirts and dresses.
I have commented positively a few times on the Picture and Video gallery.
Some of the girls there are gorgeous, but are wearing very short skirts.
I do not notice the skirt, only the beautiful girl.
Obviously, the same girl in a long, satin dress would win more brownie points, but these would be additional points, not replacement.
So, what would be my reaction to a girl whom I did not find attractive, but who was wearing a lovely ballgown?
I would like to have that ballgown; I would like to wear that ballgown, but ideally I would like two copies of it, one for me, and one to give to a pretty girl who would look tremendous in it.
Just my take on it.
Gracie
Gracie.
As a wife, I find this whole thread deeply depressing
Good question, Reine. One I've long tried to answer for myself. I know that I personally have many, many times in my life been torn in two: being attracted to a woman and wanting to look like her at the same time. (I once started a thread on that topic, as you may remember.)But according to the sentiments in this thread, it wasn't me at all, it was just my clothes!
Is it possible for CDers in general to be attracted to a woman as a man is normally attracted to a woman, without wishing he (or she) was wearing her clothes? Can this be separated at all?
As a woman, you shouldn't take this personally. This is to do with us, nothing at all with you. I can't speak for others, but it is something I've always found hard to deal with: knowing that I'm so abnormal and, in some people's eyes, perhaps even my own, just plain sick. How can a guy be immensely sexually attracted to a woman and yet want to be like her at the same time? For a lot of us, that's the trans dilemma, and it can be quite painful.
It's also the source of many of the problems that exist, or that we create, for ourselves and others. E.g., the big one: how can a guy marry a woman without telling her he crossdresses? Because as a heterosexual man, he loves her dearly, and he hopes/wishes/dreams that the other part of him will go away. And because he loves her so much, he's ashamed of himself, or he doesn't want to think about it, or he actually manages to forget about it for a while. But it doesn't go away--and then he's really in trouble, and she's really upset.
We don't do it on purpose, Reine. It's just the way we are, and there's nothing we can do about it. Give me a choice: I can be trans, or I can be attracted to women. One or the other, I can't be both. That would solve part of my problems at least. So which one would I choose? (Perhaps this would be a good topic for a thread?) At this point I think I'd give up my attraction to women. I think I've lost a fair bit of it anyway. By holding onto my trans nature, I'm accepting what I am. Women or no women, I've always been trans. So why not accept that finally?
Best wishes, Annabelle
Me too. Just goes to show how difficult it is for us to truly understand the inner workings of CDers. Some things I can understand, but not when it comes to hetero CDers not wanting the same things that hetero non-CDers do in women. This isn't a slam directed at all the people I quoted, but this is probably one of the biggest puzzlers for the GG SOs.As a wife, I find this whole thread deeply depressing
Thanks for your responses, VS Fan, Gracie, and Annabelle.
So Annabelle, you're saying that it is so difficult to be torn between wanting a woman and wanting to be like her, that you would choose to stop wanting her?
Last edited by ReineD; 10-17-2012 at 03:25 AM.
Reine
It depends, Reine. Which woman are we talking about? If it was one that I was absolutely mad about, I'd probably want to give up my TGism--though that, of course, is impossible.
I think what I'm saying is that I've got to the point where I've simply accepted that I'm trans. That's not going to go away. So if my attraction for women were to disappear, that would simplify things for me.
I can imagine not being attracted to women. I can't imagine not being trans. And maybe I'm just getting old now, but my attraction to women isn't nearly as strong as it used to be anyway. So if I had to let one thing go, I suppose that would be the one.
This is all hypothetical, of course. I've always been an extremely confused individual, and that's not going to change. But being divided inside in this way really isn't any fun.
Annabelle
Annabelle, I'm sorry it's so difficult.
For all of us
But thank you for trying to explain. Really, that's all a GG can ask for.
NO NO NO NO NO! This is NOT what I'm saying at all!But according to the sentiments in this thread, it wasn't me at all, it was just my clothes!
I love women, really love women and am very attracted to them. I think some of the women in my office vary from pretty to BEAUTIFUL and if I were single and closer to their age, I would be asking them out! BUT(!) I am extremely happily married to a beautiful woman and don't cheat, nor am I a "perv" leering at my coworkers. The point is that I now allow myself to OPENLY admire clothes, makeup, shoes, etc. I shamelessly will tell one of my coworkers, "That dress is beautiful, it really compliments you," or "those shoes are absolutely amazing," etc. I know I have made some of their days on occasion and that makes me even happier about this. If anyone overhears and thinks that I'm not "manly" because I take notice of these things, so what.
Yes, there ARE times where I think how I would look in that or maybe I should try that eyeshadow, but they are distinct and separate from compliments I pay. To go back to the OP, I would love to wear something from Ann Taylor to the office instead of my usual suit an tie but that has NOTHING to do thinking a woman looks pretty and telling her so!
Speaking for myself, absolutely! Happens everyday!
Last edited by Debglam; 10-17-2012 at 08:20 PM.
Debby
I'm forever checking out women's outfits and makeup but I think it's completely different when it comes to my wife. It's fun to see how different women pull off different looks and to get ideas but when it's my wife getting dolled up, she looks HOT and I want to take her home and be with her. When I see someone on the street, it's fun to think about how I might look in their outfit or want to try a make up idea but I rarely think of that with my wife. I do see how my wife's clothing choices is a result of her mood, confidence, etc. I think there's quite a difference between being attracted to a woman's clothes and being attracted to a woman. On a similar note, I suspect my wife has a hard time when I check out a woman's boots or skirt or eye makeup.
Ameli
I do not work in a office, but I am out in public all day. When I see women dressed for the office it makes me nuts! I would kill to go to work dressed like that just one day let alone all the time.
That's kind if what gets me feeling the way Doormat is - that you're not looking at women to take them seriously as individual humans but obsessing over small, superficial details. It's all about turning women into an object to spin around and admire. Worse, you're not even objectifying her as a human - but as a clothes rack, an object that is usually inanimate.As a woman, you shouldn't take this personally. This is to do with us, nothing at all with you.
Babeba, if you want to quote my words, you can leave my name in the quote box. I'll own up to what I say.
Secondly, this is hardly the first time this sort of thing has happened to me on this forum: somebody misunderstands what I've said, then proceeds to preach at me a bit.
Thirdly, you've been a bit dishonest here: you've only quoted two little sentences that you feel can make me look bad. If you'd quoted a bit more of what I said, then I don't think things look so bad for me.
Now the situation was this: I was responding to Reine's post #28. Now Reine can speak for herself, of course, but I got the impression she was being half-serious, half-facetious. But I decided to reply to her because I felt she was asking a good question, one that I've thought about before because it is very relevant to me.
The fact is that throughout my life I've always been divided inside myself: if I see a nice-looking woman, on the one hand I'm attracted to her, on the other hand I envy her and want to look like her. Now here's a part of what I said which you neglected to quote:
I can't speak for others, but it is something I've always found hard to deal with: knowing that I'm so abnormal and, in some people's eyes, perhaps even my own, just plain sick.
You see, this is something that I'm not comfortable with. I'm aware that it could upset a woman. You see, I'm not failing "to look at women to take them seriously as individual humans but obsessing over small, superficial details. It's all about turning women into an object to spin around and admire. Worse, you're not even objectifying her as a human - but as a clothes rack, an object that is usually inanimate."
I'm not turning a woman into an object or a clothes rack. I'm well aware that she has feelings, and if she knew my feelings it could possibly bother her.
As a matter of fact, I once started a thread on this very topic--here:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...-strikes-again!
Being aware that women might not like my feelings, I actually took the trouble to ask them. I think I'm a bit more sensitive to people than you give me credit for. And you'll note that neither Reine nor Doormat on this thread nor any of the other women who posted on the other thread got upset with me for raising the question.
So when I said,
This is to do with us, nothing at all with you,
what I meant was "It's not your fault. It's mine." That is, if anybody's at fault here, I accept that I am, not the woman in question. Am I at fault? Should I feel guilty about the feelings I have? I'm trans. Such are my feelings. Blame me for them if you like, but I've tried to deal honestly with them.
You don't know me personally, Babeba, and two little sentences on a forum won't tell you anything about me. But this I can say honestly: no woman I've ever known personally has ever accused me of treating her the way you say I'm doing.
Best wishes,
Annabelle
This is one of those things that is very difficult for GGs to understand and I hope I can help explain.But according to the sentiments in this thread, it wasn't me at all, it was just my clothes!
Is it possible for CDers in general to be attracted to a woman as a man is normally attracted to a woman, without wishing he (or she) was wearing her clothes? Can this be separated at all?
Reine, I think you are selling yourself short; if a man likes your clothes, it certainly does not mean he cannot find you attractive as well. That is true of many of us. I'd be lying if I said there are not some who are only into the clothes and not the women in them. Some dressers may look at you and just be interested in what you are wearing, but please understand that is not always the case, and the fact a man likes your clothes does not mean he cannot find you attractive as well. Can the two be separated? I certainly cannot speak for everyone, but I think in general a dresser sees you, finds you attractive and also finds your clothes attractive, he cannot just turn off his attraction to your clothes like turning off a light; however, that does not mean he cannot find both you and your clothes attractive concurrently and desire you at the same time.
Please understand many of us are drawn to women's clothes we like like a magnet. Call it a fetish, an obsession, or whatever, but it is something we are drawn to and something we notice and pay attention to. I really, really cannot say emphatically enough that it does not have to do with the woman, and it does not mean they we feel there is anything wrong or undesirable about the woman. It is just something some of us are hardwired to be attracted to and notice. I am really pleading for understanding by GGs when I say that YES, even if we fancy the clothes you are wearing we can find you attractive, and it DOES NOT mean we think there is something wrong with you or that we are not attracted to you. Even if we happen to be obsessed with your clothes, we STILL CAN love you and desire to be with you!
For all the GG's who read this and get depressed.
I was in a relationship several years ago with a woman I have not seen in quite a few years now. I was totally mesmerized by her. It did not matter one bit what clothes she was wearing, or not wearing. Even just out of the shower or first thing in the morning it did not matter. The sight of her just sent chills down my spine and made me almost unable to talk. Hearing her voice on the phone, anything about her. It was her. I did enjoy many of the clothes she wore but she was not always dressed up. It didn't matter. When a man is in love it is the person not the look. I have not seen her in over 10 years now but if I did I would melt just the same whether she looked great or if she was over 400 lbs and bald.
By the way this was the only person in the world I ever told about my desire to dress. She was very accepting and even went shopping with me. It had nothing to do with our separation.
Whoo whee! One never knows which thread is on fire - and this one is! I'll hold off on the superficial "I like that my office mate is able to pair a sweatersress wil a pair of nude heels so effectively" and throw down in defense of the CDers liking women for women's sake despite their wardrobe.
My wife is my favorite person in the world. She can't always work that outfit, but I could care less. She bore two children, keeps up a home that has no business being kept up, and manages to drive me wild with a few words. When I met her I thought her tattered jeans cuffs were the sexiest thing I'd ever seen. Was it a pair of pumps in red satin I was attracted too? No - it was her. And that's all that matters. Will I be able to buy her those red satin heels (that I covet bTW) without her suspecting that I'm also attracted to the presentation as much as her? Not likely.
But news flash - a lot of men objectify. We just do it more fabulously!
Darla
When I do service work I have to go into office's and notice that a lot of office women don't dress like they used to, a lot of women wear pants more often but when you do see those real professional women, it is a great wonder to see.
For me seeing the outfits the women in the office wear is the highlight of my day. I would love to have the confidence to ask where they got their outfit, and even to ask for makeup advice. That would reveal a little too much about me though.
Sometimes I have to shut my office door just to avoid the distraction of them walking by.
Annabelle,
I'm sorry that I upset you. I didn't mean to do that.
I quite often will quote a small part rather than a whole post, when I am posting from my iPhone. It's easier to pull out a smaller section that way. You are correct, I took away the context and it did change the meaning, now I've looked at it.
I do think sometimes however, that some cross dressing GM's do forget about the woman behind the clothes - and in threads like this one even with those members who are very aware of women as people, they post in such a way that makes it seem as though they are not. That is one of the things I was referring to. I misunderstood your sentences as being exactly indicative of this, and so I quoted them as one example of what I saw as being an example of this.
I work in retail at night when I see a nicely dressed woman the first thing I notice or her eyes I am a sucker for green eyes then I notice their legs I ama leg man too just the other night a lady walked by she had a on a pair of jeans that made her legs say look at me and I did and I said to myself damn I would like to get to know her. so yes I notice how a woman is dressed but no I dont wont to wear her clothes.
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