Luscious, you can't outsmart Reinestein.
Luscious, you can't outsmart Reinestein.
As I understand it, the original question is whether a straight cd has any place in the LGBTQ community. It has nothing to do with hanging out in gay bars or being welcomed by lesbians. The question is: Do we have a place by right of who we are? And the answer is, damn right we do. We are the T in the equation. LGBTQ activists are fighting for us as well, and we have a right to demand their support—and to throw our support to our gay, lesbian and bi brothers and sisters. If your lesbian sisters are only lukewarm toward you, then open your own watering place for T-girls. But remember, we are all in this together.
Me neither, Christine. I don't think any of us is any more or less strange than the vast majority of humankind.Originally Posted by ChristineReid
If Q stands for what I think it does, this is the first time I have seen the letter attached to the other four.
I loathe all labels anyway, so simply reject all of this stereotyping.
This is an interesting Sociological principal. In any large population there are always micro chasms or sub-groups that develop within the community. I have always felt like the "T" was an afterthought in the LGB (oh yea, and T) community. It's like we are the proverbial red-headed-step-child.
Having said that, I also feel it's important that we focus on the things we have in common rather than our differences.
At the advice of my therapist (who incidentally is a lesbian) I recently visited our local LGBT center. I even attended a group meeting for trans-folks called "translation". I met some really cool people there, but none of them really reached out to the "new-comer." Perhaps they were just respecting my privacy, but it seemed more like they were pre-occupied with their own problems (some of which were significant!) Overall I didn't find the meeting or the center that helpful. I would give it maybe one and a half stars out of five. Most of the discussion was around political issues and involved petitioning local government for help with things like housing and medical costs. There was talk about the rights to be out en-femme without harassment from law enforcement or threat of being fired from your job. I don't discount for a minute the importance of these issues but we never seemed to get away from the theme of, "What will society do for me?"
The thing that would have made it a better experience for me would have been to hear what we as a community are doing to help society. We are a diverse and talented group and have a lot to offer. I believe that if we could somehow demonstrate that we are not just harmless, but that we can enhance the lives of those around us then we will be rewarded with a greater measure of acceptance.
PS:
You are so right about Reinestein!!! She rocks LOL
Yes. Crossdressers count as transgender. However, the addition of T (transgender) to the LGBT community is recent, and not always well understood. LGB are about sexual preference. The community has expanded to include gender identity, and more recently 'I' was added for physical sex differences by intersex people. More letters have been added to represent different subgroups in an attempt to be inclusive.
Some people think that these different types of gender/sex diversity should not be grouped together because they are not really all that similar, and there is often conflict and lack of understanding within the LGBTIQ/etc communities. What we have in common is mainly that we want acceptance by society. We should be able to demonstrate that acceptance of diversity within the broad gender-diverse community, but we are not there yet.
Juno Michelle Krahn
Normal people are weird. Stealth is another word for "in the closet".
Here's my two bits
Im not gay or lesbian, Im a man that's declines homosexuallity or the "normal" thought process of society. I am a crossdresser and that is totally "off the wall" to everyone. The gay folks see us as wierd,the "normal" folks see us as wierd so of course we don't fit in with either. I prefer to stand alone in my "off the wallness" and be part of the "me" group and that's how I like it. I don't associate with someone just to be accepted. I'll do my thing and don't give me crap about it. I won't shove my crap down your throat and don't try to shove your crap down my throat.
The "me" group may be very small but we're lethal.
Thera
Last edited by Eryn; 10-20-2012 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Deleted profanity.
Well said! We are all here to express who we are - not be boxed into someone else's definition of who we should be/I prefer to stand alone in my "off the wallness" and be part of the "me" group and that's how I like it.
The "me" group may be very small but we're lethal.
Thera
Christine x - more pics on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/misschristinereid/
That's a little bit disingenuous Thera. You do in fact associate with others to be accepted, and those others would be your straight male friends that have no idea who you really are. In fact, nobody knows who you really are so how are they gonna give you "crap" about your thing when you "do your thing" in complete secrecy?
I've noticed over the years that a lot of deeply closeted people talk tough about their individuality on the internet but you don't hear a peep from them in real life. I understand how difficult it is for many people to be honest with themselves and others, but I don't understand how someone can be so proudly independent and dismissive of societal classifications here, but completely opposite in their lives.
My religious, teabagger, birther dad, is not thrilled about my transition but he is proud that I at least walk it like I talk it.
Last edited by Eryn; 10-20-2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Deleted profanity in quoted text
Hi Melissa
Sorry, Im still trying to figure out how to split the post and answer it separatly, Oh well my pea brain is just so taxed sometimes
- The only person I chose to know was my wife. Everybody else will be included in my life as I choose and they will know what I decide they should know about me.
- That's me in the flesh
- Im happy that your pappy is proud of you. If you decide to walk the walk and less talk then that's a choice you decided to make and Im happy for you. Do you believe since you decided to go that route that everybody should follow? I believe they call that "running with the pack".
For me, Im content where I am, I'm a deep closet dresser and I like it that way. I do fantansize about going out in public someday and if it happens, great. If it doesn't, great. It doesn't really matter to me because I chose to not let it matter.
And thats just "me"
Thera
Well, said, Christine!!!
You have stated clearly and succinctly what I have long been struggling to say on this forum.
Absolutely not. There is no bigger advocate of "doing your own thing" than me. It doesn't bother me in the least if people want to be closeted EXCEPT for the blinding hypocrisy when they post on this board. How can you come on here and say "I don't care what anybody thinks!" when in your actual life you care a LOT about what EVERYBODY thinks.
I suppose they would, but the pack I'm running with is a hell of a lot smaller than the pack you pretend to be a part of. My pack knows everything about me, and yours has no idea that you are such a proud independent thinker. I totally get that you find comfort in your level of disclosure but why try and portray yourself as some maverick, when that's not really the case?I believe they call that "running with the pack".
I'm not speaking to JUST you Thera, there are many dozens of you that I'm addressing.
Sorry to take so long to get back to this!
To clarify for those who were asking, the Q in LGBTQ stands for "queer" or "genderqueer" - those who don't fit into either portion of a binary (male/female only) definition of gender. I suppose since in order to completely accurately label myself as cis-male, I probably wouldn't enjoy crossdressing, technically, I would fall closest to the "genderqueer" label.
I already am fairly active in at least a small portion of the local "alphabet" community, through attending local meetings and events with my wife. I've gotten to know about a dozen of the folks she works closely with in the community, they're all pretty cool, and they're all pretty cool with me as a "straight ally". Unfortunately there are no "T" representatives in their organization yet, so I really haven't found anyone through that circle that I could click with.
Part of the problem is that I'm no social butterfly and never will be, even in the nice quiet settings I prefer. The bar scene (yeah there's the one club here... it literally used to be named "The Club" back in the 90s) is not something I've even enjoyed. I almost never drink (no moral issues with it, I'm a control freak), I dance horribly, and I hate having to shout over loud music to be heard.
I've briefly looked into Tri-Ess, and need to look some more. The main problem is the nearest chapter is about 100 miles away. I guess it just boils down to the fact that I'm pretty much scared to seek out the local trans community. I'm not looking for a date, a hookup, or anything like that... just friends that understand the CD part of me. My fears are likely mostly not rational, but that doesn't make them less scary.
Around these parts I have no name since Im that closeted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQGGQ-FCe_w
Thera
There is a wonderful Afrikaans word "skeef", which the transgender community uses in South Africa.
It means "skew" or, better still in South African terms, "not straight".
Maybe we could all agree to simply use that word instead of all the others?
Straight vs skeef .... a simple binary code.
Then we could do away with all this nonsense.
Dream on, CF!
The Community (and I use that in the broadest sense) is not so big and powerful that it can afford to turn people away. People should realize that but on the other hand bisexuals get some really wicked flack that we are not gay enough or that when times get tight we can fade back into mainstream heteroland. People should know better and realize that progress towards equality needs (NO, Requires!) all of us working together. It is stupid NOT to do that, but it's almost like some inside The Community want all the glory and all the benefits for themselves. They are unwilling to share. I would not be surprised if a similar thought process has been levied against straight crossdressers. And, I suspect that it is an even greater leap of Faith as they just KNOW that you're really gay and in denial. Probably the best advice is staunchly maintain your identity. Don't shout it from the rafters, but be resolute.
Society at large attempts to marginalize ALL of us because we sleep with and have relationships with people of the same sex OR because we choose to present opposite to our physical being OR we don't determine our preferred partners by gender OR we don't think of ourselves as sexual beings OR there is a mismatch between our sensibilities and our physical being. All of these things SHOULD be reasons to unite us, but instead many people consider them as reasons to stay separate and apart. This will NOT do.
So, if we don't see the behavior that should exist, it is up to us to model it. It is up to us to be inclusive. It is up to us to recgnize our differences, accept them and be drawn together by them. Anything less will be viewed as tacit approval of the behavior that we don't want.
I prefer to look past "our differences" and see the person within, without bothering to put them in a box. Unconditional acceptance of the person as a person.
I have heard it said that gay people don't "accept" CDers such as I. Can't see why, though. I would have thought that any support would be better than antagonism.
Quite true. It's the "We hang together or surely we will hang separately" philosophy.
In the past, before homosexuality had its present level of acceptance, heterosexual CDers went out of their way to disassociate themelves with the gay community which is why groups like Tri-Ess limited their memberships to heterosexuals. Some older groups still adhere to this stricture but many have moved into the current century and are accepting of all sexual orientations.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
HI,
Down in our part of the south isl of N Z we dont have gay bar's nore do we have LGBQ or T for that matter, id have to drive 130 miles north to Ch Ch , or south 90 miles to Dunedin to even find any. I know one chap whos in his 70's & have done for 7 years .
I know of 7 women same amount of time . & we used to meet each month though we have disbanded most of the others are working. I even took Jos & our daughter & her Kid'e along for a potluck evening get to gether, that was nice.
The only comment i had was at another get together was i would not be accepted as a female / woman no matter what i did or said they made it very plan in thier eyes i was not a female even though i was /am a intersexed female ./ woman.
As to my other friend he was more than willing to be a friend, & still is, & he knows about my background like the others,
I allso have been with 120 women at a gay evening or pride week i know two dresser's came along & went with in a hour , they were not interested in being there, i stayed till about 11 men who were invited to come up after 2 hours of the start of the evening , & then some decided to go to see were the bar's were, heck that was out side my whatll i say comfort zone. never been to any like that, i stayed a while had a look around then thought . time to head off, not my thing, my point is i went took time to be with them & showed my face,
I dont have any contact with any groups such as we are talking about , its all the driveing involved, & the one group i knew is disbanding, or has,
So , so im just a woman whos pretty much involved with our community & our groups, here in Waimate, most are woman any way so im happerly at home,
& i dont see any dresser's or trans if there are any about i would only know of one whom iv not seen in a while, due to health issues,
Just thinking a bit more & really what would i have in common with those in the gay community, even they would not be interested in our community of women here were i live they are not interested in our groups, or what we do.
so i spos the saying is where birds of a feather flock together means much ,its that, we have very different interests,
...noeleena...
Last edited by noeleena; 10-20-2012 at 02:17 AM.
Yes, but then, a lot of us are bi, some are on hormones, and some have done minor surgical procedures. And some of us have done none of that. I hang out at gay bars, get pegged as gay, and straight, and everything else....but I am nice, friendly and THAT is why I am accepted, so it has precious little to do with my orientation or presentation....
You're assuming that differences separate. That is only true if one uses the idea as a way to separate and attempt to feel superior over someone else because of those differnces. Ignoring differences and refusing to deal with them does not make them go away. Do all of your friends look like you? Do we all dress the same? Do we all drive Chevys? Of course not.
I'll bet you anything that my life to this point has been very different from your to this point. Among other things, our experiences shape who we are. A lot of our differences are based in these experiences. When we ignore differences, it is a way of assuming that we are all alike. Clearly with over 300,000,000 people in the US, what are those chances?
Understanding differences facilitates the understanding of who we are and why we respond in certain unique ways. Getting back to crossdressers, we all have different reasons why we do it, what we enjoy about it and what we gain from it. Sure there are some general themes, but there are also many shades within those themes. We come from being straight, gay, bisexual or transgender. We started young, middle-aged and old. We underdress, go out dressed, we live en femme 24/7. We are in relationships or not. We have children or not. We want to transition permanently to the opposite gender or not. We inherentlyhave a number of different paths by which we come to THIS place. This is the richness of who we are and we can't shortcircuit this in the interest of simplicity.
OMG!
If I had a bell I would ring it. Short and to the point. (a really sharp and pointy one too)
I know they do.
As for the rest of your post, the points you make are relevant and pertinent. And, at the same time, irrelevant and impertinent.
This thread mentions a handful of boxes, each one with a letter label. Can we put each of the roughly 300,000,000 Americans neatly into just one of these boxes? Clearly, no we can't! So what shall we do? I know, let's find the broadest common denominator we can! Let's put all of them into a wonderful box labelled "Americans".
But hold it ... what about all the other people on this planet who dont't live in the USA. Bugger! Better put them each into separate boxes and label them according to the countries in which they live. Perhaps a step in the right direction, after all, there are about 130 countries in the world, I think.
But hold it ... will that allow all the people of this world to live in peace and harmony? Don't think so. Look at the civil wars taking place right now in countries such as Syria and Zimbabwe, to say nothing about the wars fought by the USA against all manner of other countries in the latter part of the 20th century and the last decade or so.
Nationalism is not the way to go.
Neither is LGBTQ ....
What we need is a great big melting pot so that we all become humans, for at the very root of our existence, that humanity is what we ALL share.
Sure, we each follow our own unique path through this life. But at the end of it, we all return to dust. Our differences do not matter, when we look back on them. They only serve to separate us one from another, and to make each invidual's life that much more difficult.
We have lost our sense of community in recent decades, through the rise of the I, ME, MINE mentality. A handful of little boxes may provide temporary shelter, but they cannot encompass the richness of our diversity and singularity.
Last edited by GaleWarning; 10-20-2012 at 02:04 PM.
My two sense: We all agree that all sexual persuasions should accept each other's right to live and be whatever you want to be without bigotry and harassment.
"Accept" and "tolerate" allows hetero CDs to mingle in LGBT clubs and gatherings without obvious problem, but do they understand what makes you tick? No, I don't think they do. And what happens when one's life style is not understood? We know the answer already. I haven't met a gay person yet who knows why we do what we do (we really don't either) but I do know that gay males prefer other males just as gay females prefer other females.. Along comes the hetero CDs who generally tries their best to emulate females in dress and physical appearance. So why should they be attracted to you? The gay person may welcome the CD's right to be whatever they wish to be for that demonstrates their wish for society to be tolerant of all but are they comfortable socializing with us (other than relatives)? I think not. I go along with those posts that suggest for you to find either nearby or by Internet CDs to whom you can relate.
Julie
Fascinating thread, glad you started it. My guess is that you personally wouldn't struggle greatly to have a nice place in the community.
As a more general proposition, though, I think it would depend on how vehemently "straight" the CD is. Not that the CD would need to be anything less than 100% straight, but if she is someone who needs to constantly reaffirm that fact, or make sure that everyone knows it, I can imagine that her reception may be less than universally positive.
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