Several weeks ago, i walked across the stree, and into the drug store, dressed up. The cashier seemed to think she was seeing a very tall woman, ...until she heard my voice. Well, yesterday. i wemnt in, in drab, and asked here if she remembered that tall woman. She said, frankly, "I knew it was a man right away." Burst my bubble, ate humble pie. I only fooled myself, not her!
Don't worry, honey - but do work on the voice if you can.
- Phoebe Brenne
Reality checks suck. Don't give up, and keep on going out. That's all I can say. Wish I could make you feel better, though.
I know enough to know I don't know enough.
Peace
As long as she didn't point and laugh then your golden..... imho!
Sometimes it is better not to know the answer to the question; What you do not
know, will not discourage you in the future.
So cut down your hight by a few inches, and try again.
Don't be scared, you most likely pass better than you think.
Remember, she probably See's 100's of people every day, and can "read"
someone at a glance.
Rader
That's one reason I don't worry about passing Alice. I honestly don't care. If some have a problem with it, it's theirs, not mine. Besides I kind of like the alternate identity shtick even if I'm fooling no one.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
If your goal is to pass keep reaching for the goal it will happen. Until then enjoy who you are.
I don't think we pass very often, I can relate. I was 50 miles from home, and in drab the other day when an FtM from my support group walks up to me and strikes up a conversation without skipping a beat. He's only seen me enfemme, so apparently I look the same either way. So much for incognito.
Go to the next town if you want to go unrecognized.
Last edited by TeresaL; 12-01-2012 at 06:23 PM.
You have to remember you cant fool everyone Alice
The main thing is to be presentable enough that you dont get any hassle
She did the right thing by treating you the same as anyone else
Let's look at this from her point of view:Originally Posted by Alice Torn
Someone has come to her and essentially asked "Were you fooled by that man masquerading as a woman?"
What is she going to say? "Why yes, I was completely clueless!"? Not likely! She's going to make the statement that puts her in the best light.
The truth is the typical person out there is not on the continuous lookout for CDers and simply uses obvious cues to identify gender. They might sense something funny during an interaction, but there is always a chance that you are a genetic female so they won't risk embarassing either of you by calling you on the situation. They might suspect, but they will never be sure unless you open the door by allowing them to question your gender.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
I have to agree, never assume you pass, but just accept the no comments, and keep moving. Don't give up trying.
Barbara
He (she) who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance.
- Friedrich Nietzche -
I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.
In the grocery checkout lane the comment is made: "Look, that man is dressed up like a woman." And the subject (and object) of that sentence turns and says: "That's ok, it happens all the time. A lot of people make that same mistake."
I agree with Barbara, just live your life and have fun. IMO what other people think is hogwash, you can never please everyone.
Fulfilling a Lifetime Dream of Living as a Woman in My Adult Years.
My Love of Cat's Eye Frames, Bangles, Red Lipstick, Nails, & Cheeks, Comes From My Mother - An Irish Beauty
I'm Always Rainbow Proud
Q for you Alice. DID she treat you badly or differently the first time...AFTER she heard your voice? Is it possible she "knew" before you even spoke up but simply did not care how you were dressed? [WHY would she?]
She obviously still considered you worthy of a conversation the second time around.
Maybe worrying about passing is not really productive?
Maybe since you now have a "raport" with her, you can ask her the next time you see her, if she thought you were in any way a menace to Society when she pegged you the first time? My guess is that she did NOT immediately run home and grab her kids and go get them signed them up for self defense classes.
And BRAVO for you for getting out.
So from what I understand you went into the store, were not harassed, were treated well and with respect.
If so, then WHO CARES if you 'passed' or not! I'm not saying this in a mean way, I'm just saying 'don't the results speak for themselves'?
Up until a very short time ago, I worries a lot about if I passed or not, and probably fooled myself into thinking I was passing many times when I was not. Over time, I realized that the important thing was that I was out in public, being treated well, and able to be 'myself'. If I passed or not became less and less important.
Once I started thinking this way, doing my makeup started taking a lot less time (I no longer obsessed over every detail), I didn't worry as much about things I couldn't control (my adam's apple and voice) and I started being MUCH more relaxed while out.
Now it doesn't bother me AT ALL if somebody knows I'm a guy while out as long as they are polite. It is like a big door has opened for me. Now I'm going out with absolutely no nervousness at all.
I still make an effort, just because if I am going to dress up I want to look good doing it. So I do the makeup, nails, hair, etc and try to walk/act in a more feminine manner. But all I do with my voice is speak in a slightly higher register.
I'd LOVE to be able to fool myself and think that everybody sees me as female... but the last 10+ years of going out have shown me that a) they don't and b) it doesn't matter in the least.
PS: Yesterday I was out all day shopping. Skirt suit with above-the-knees skirt, hose, heels, etc. Except for cold legs while walking across the parking lots (high temps up here yesterday hit 25 degrees!) I pretty much totally forgot how I was dressed. Went to half a dozen stores, spoke to as many sales people, used dressing rooms in several different stores. Life is GOOD once you stop worrying about passing as much!!
Last edited by Cristi; 12-01-2012 at 07:50 PM.
In a society in which it is a moral offense to be different from your neighbor your only escape is never to let them find out.
-- Robert Heinlein
Yesterday I went out for the first time in public...makeover in drab and shopping. It was a good experince however I don't think I passed for a single second. However it was a great time! Being yourself is what life is all about...
How rude is that for people to say?
It is a bit annoying for onesself when they didn't "pass" but the REAL annoying part is someone has the gall to say something like that.
It would be like if you saw her thug boyfriend and said, "I knew he was trouble right away".
Or like you said she was a cashier, what if you said, "I knew you were under-educated right away".
No TG wants to hear snarky-ass comments about passing. Doesn't matter if it's a full time TS or the occasional CD.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
Totally agree Cristi (post #16). Indeed, those with whom I interact seem to appreciate my honesty in being who I am but also admiration for my effort in presentation, style and thirst for improving. Many are generous with their advice to improve my dressing and makeup skills.
Passing/blending remains my aim but being recognised as a male is no longer limiting. I'm somewhat happier to engage in conversation knowing that as soon as I speak any semblance of passing will be dashed. Interaction with others sure enhances the experience of being out and reduces the lonliness of a CDer.
Last edited by Michelle (Oz); 12-01-2012 at 08:11 PM.
While I passed in my teens and 20s, I couldn't pass with a total professional makeover today. So I just dress as I like.
I was a woman when I was 20, now I imagine I am a woman, things change. Drat!
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
One thing that I have learned over time is that the more you stress and obsess over passing the more others are going to clock you. The less someone stresses or obsesses about passing the less of a chance they have to get clocked. I have seen several times where I must not have passed ficailly, but just kept on going and doing my thing and giving hugs to friends and in general having a good time and I have heard people close to me say she looks like a dude, she has amazing hair go ask her what she does with her hair, he has on an awesome skirt go ask her, I mean him where she got the skirt I mean him and see how much she paid for it. that last one I heard from someone I was passing in the mall before I started transitioning and had longer hair. Before I even started transitioning I went to a mall dressed last year for black friday and there was a guy who learned from his daughter that I was actually a guy and the guy immediately ran behind a sign large enough to cover a giraffe and looked at me through a little peephole in it. When his family left without him he came out from behind the sign and did the "Oh crap where did my family go" look. I thought it was hilarious!! My point is, is that the less that I have worried about passing the more I pass. I ask on occasion people attending the register at a gas station or something like that and I normally get the response "you passed.... what? what are you passing? A lot of people don't even realize that I'm asking if I pass as a woman, which if that's the case I think I'm doing pretty well!! In your case you need to internalize this lesson and remember it and push forward until you pass. Your voice will never be an issue if you believe in yourself ALWAYS!!
Angela
I wouldn't worry too much about that honey---if you look like your avatar at all in real life, then you are definitly a classy looking lady, transgendered or not---see my prior comments on passing---there are two possible goals, since few of us here will pass with close scrutiny--the first is to blend, the second, and often at odds with the first goal, is to stand out as a really attractive person---for my money I would rather be looked on as an attractive crossdresser than a drab GG. and you are definitly attractive.
[SIZE="4"][/SIZE]
For most of us who are plus sized women. it's more than just the Adam's apple. I know I will never be passable. But, honestly I have no desire to interact with cashiers or others outside the home. I do on occasion go out totally en femme for an evening stroll in a neighborhood nobody knows me. Although nobody may harass me or treat me badly, there is still family and job considerations for most of us.
My computer has been in repair lately, so here is a late reply. there was no hostility, or trouble, with the cashier. She did seem surprised to see such a tall lady! And, when i spoke, I though t that was when she read me. We hit it off fine. I was only surprised, that later, she said she know right away it was a man! I am not bummed out much, just a little surprised, as i was dressed conservatively, in a longer skirt, itha a suit jacket. Come to think of it, I have not seen one woman or girl, in a skirt or dress, for about a month in this town! Maybe, it was
SKIRT, that made her guess i was a guy crossdresser! No one else wears skirts around thi town!!!!
Alice, I think you are marvelous. Just having the guts to go out dressed is more guts than most will ever have. I'm with the other girls who don't give a hoot what someone else thinks. Mind you, you have more guts than me. I've never been out in the vicinity of where I live. On the other hand, I travel abroad quite a bit and I have dressed in public in other countries many times.
As I've listened to the comments made about me when I'm dressed, one thing is almost always said (my wife even says it and she is still in the dark), "You have great legs." That helped me discover something important for me. My facial features are not androgynous, but I can easily do makeup tricks to hide the obvious. Like all genetic males, I have the "apple" to deal with. So, I concentrate on the part that IS most naturally feminine, my legs. I never cover them with pants, I always wear heels, almost always stockings--to draw the eye of the beholder away from my face. It works pretty well most of the time.
BTW--in Asia, I can board a plane with all my guy data in hand, dressed completely as a woman, and no one says a word or even gives a reluctant stare. I love it when I can have the confidence that in most places (outside the US) not many judge me for my looks; they accept me for who I am.
Keep on plugging sister; it ain't easy, but it's worth it.
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