Is the reason no one hardly ever asks...

[Wildaboutheels]

because the answer is so obvious? Or is it?

Why are so few females ... Cross Dressers? [And none of this malarkey about many of them ARE CDers because they can wear pants and such please and/or THEY get away with CDing all the time etc.]

Let's describe a female CDer [for the sake of this discussion] as one who would bind her breasts, stuff a sock into her pants and wear clothing to HIDE her curves, and deepen her voice and try to stand, sit, and walk "like a man". And of course wear "men's" clothes. Let's also throw in either shaving her head bald OR wearing a short wig styled in a typical male style. OOPS - absolutely no makeup of any kind either. Did I leave anything out?

[crazybiker]

I can't say I know for sure, but I would assume its easy. Straight cut jeans, a binder, hair cut short(er). Some guys like or can do longer hair really well. Plus a T or some sort of plain top. Voala! Guy! Top off with some socks and shoes of some flat sort. Done?
There's no make up to get really good at, or matching things together, or heels to learn to walk in, or hair to be made to do things. I can spike my hair in like a min, and be out of bed, dressed and in my car for work in 10 mins.

[Tara D. Rose]

I see them everywhere and every time I go out to anywhere. Nobody bats an eye at all. They don;t have to be closeted at all. Like I said, I see them every day. I just don't see M to F everyday. I only see our kind very extremely rarely.

[crazybiker]

Yeap, well really part of that is on us as MtF to just go out. We're closeted cause we're afraid of what others might think, but girls to guys have had years of fighting to wear the pants for lack there of a better word. It's just that its not wierd to see a GG in pants so if she wants to be a he, it's not as bad. If it was just the same for a guy in heels or skirts or other from things and it was normal, then I'm sure it would be just as common to see lots of MtF around.

[sandra-leigh]

No-one knows. And the odd thing is that some studies say that the number of FTM transsexuals (treated in a particular location?) is a little higher than the number of MTF transsexuals. Other studies suggest about 1 FTM transsexual for each 6 MTF transsexual. Possibly it is regional, or possibly there were factors that encouraged FTM in some studies.

I have seen it suggested, as an informal hypothesis, that although the visible MTF crossdressing ratio appears to be much much higher than FTM, that the FTM transsexuals are slightly more likely to transition than the MTF transsexuals -- that the MTF are more likely to be part time or indecisive or decide that the "costs" are not worth it, and the FTM are less likely to play around and more likely to go for it.

Some have suggested that the reason is that since the FTM do not have the same kind of testosterone levels as men do, they are not likely to get a sexual thrill from cross-dressing as many men do, and so less likely to engage in it. I find this to be a somewhat paternalistic suggestion.

What I can talk about is that when I go to TDOR (Transgender Day of Remembrance) there are usually more FTM than MTF there, and that the FTM who attend tend to be noticeable mostly by context. They mostly dress and style themselves the same way that I see a fair number of other women dress and style themselves. Some of those other women might be "butch"; some of them might simply prefer the styling; or perhaps I am meeting gender-variant GG in many different contexts and just not recognizing them as being definitely gender-variant. And just like not asking someone if they are pregnant, I am not about to ask the ones I suspect.

[noeleena]

Hi,

because we are not brought in to contension very few women are trying to be male just because we can wear male clothes does not make us crossdressers in the first place,

Now a few do butch ( lesbain ) those are the ones i know & have seen trying, the women who have thier head shaved do so for a cause or breast cancer or the like, or chemo. & i happen to know a few,

The many women i know dont try to be other than who they are, in our membership we have some 800 women i know, not one of them are trying to be other than who they are, they are women end of,

what they wear at home in the garden could be thier husbands shirt or top & pants ,
We have overalls for men or women yet look the same or bib overalls, have a look & see how they are shaped,

remember in the 1400 to 1700's women wore pants under garments called bloomers & men wore dress's similer to womens,

Thats only one time in our history.

As a scot we both men & women wear Kilts, or to the english a skirt, we both can wear blouse's though the mens one will be a bit different, our caps are similer. a bonnet, a glengarry the sporran is never worn by women unless if part of the mixed band. the highlanders,

Now maybe ill get a comment here,

as im intersexed i can wear both male & womens wear, & never be a crossdresser. so think about that for a change,

Heres a ? . if i go into a shop a clothes one & ask for a top to be made for myself & its colours are flowerery, it fits well looks nice, & its for a male then ask for one same colour for myself for a female , what will be said, would i be crossdressing.

For the male one itll have to allow for my breasts, the female one will anyway, then the same for a skirt, & a pair of pants, ( hate them ) still colour can be different yet the same for skirt. & pants,

What im try to get at is what difference is there if both sets of clothes are made for me wheres this crossdressing comeing in , i have the clothes made for myself, they are nether mens or womens because they fit my body.my shape what you have to do is see where im comeing from.

I make many of my clothes to suit my shape it may fit another woman or a male tops skirts, & what ever i need ,

Now you go into a shop say a womens wear for women only & you wear those clothes, yet they are shaped just for women youll say crossdresing , the same for the male shop. a woman gets clothes a dresser you say,

Now some women because of health issues can not wear womens wear so have to buy mens wear to at least have someting they can wear, okay, are they then crossdresser's i know what ill say.

Very few men will go to a womans shop to buy clothes because of health issues, will they because the shape size wont fit them let alone would they wear them,

So a crossdresser is one who is trying to be other than who they are in real life, man or woman though itll be manly men who will.

Now this is from women im close to this goes back a few years, 40's or so some women said they would rather have been born as men & quite a few, i did not ask my friend as to why, i will later on.

Now as i go back to the 18 60s through 1930's we have the womens suffirage & what they put up with so mounted a we will go on the streets & make known we need changes for women & we have those changes because our women did something about thier plight , what we have as women today is because of them,

The males would have just carryed on as normal & not cared, & there are true storys of what the Governrs did to our women, an indicment against the men ,are we concerned,


...noeleena...

[Jenniferathome]

It's a little thing called testosterone. The trans women you describe are not cross dressers but TG.

[Dana921]

One of the things easily forgotten is the women who around the turn of the 1900's started and suffered their own peer and male pressure for dressing in what was then thought of as masculine clothing, pants! They fought a huge battle that some may say continue's even today. When WWII came about and women had to take a more active role in jobs that were traditionally male, they grew as a group towards having equal rights and again proved themselves as capable and equals in the workforce and society. Essentially I think we need to remember it was not always the way for women to wear anything they wanted to and recognize they have already fought a battle that we are now fighting or trying to change public perception. One might even say it is a distraction from our efforts to worry or talk about what others have and not focus on the needs we have to have to express ourselves as we wish!

[LilSissyStevie]

Just look at the extremes you describe a woman has to go to to be considered a CD. All a man has to do is wear one item of "female" gear and he's a crossdresser. I used a pink hair tie for my ponytail one day and got a comment from a complete stranger!!! (I don't think I passed. LOL!) The reason there are so few female CDs is that there isn't much a woman can wear that is exclusively male attire. If a woman has "gender issues" she has to find another way to express it. Another way to think of it is that crossdressing is just another exclusive male privilege.

[Stephanie47]

I think your answer is dependent upon "Why do men cross dress?" Answer that question and you'll have the answer as to why there are so few female to male cross dressers.

My thoughts center around the fact women can opt to appear totally feminine in a dress and heels or a tailored suit. There is a degree of functionality offered to women that men do not enjoy. Since women may wear pants, they adapt that societal permission to wear 'dressy' pants for a professional job, such as an attorney. Women may also wear pants that are functional in an endeavor which requires functionality over style. A man or woman is not going to wear polyester if he or she is a welder.

The closest I ever see of a woman cross dressing in a manly look really not of her choosing. For some reason some restaurants have their female wait staff wearing manly looking black pants, white shirt (not blouse), black tie and low heels. They look very 'manly.'

Many of the posters on this site enjoy wearing feminine cut jeans with embroidery and a woman's top. What if a man's jeans was made with cute embroidery or cut like a woman's? Would a cross dresser choose to wear them? Or would the cross dresser choose to express femininity in a different manner? I choose to express Stephanie strictly by wearing dresses and heels. Each to his or her own.

Again, when you figure out why a man becomes a cross dresser, then you'll figure out why woman do not.

[Wildaboutheels]

Perhaps my impression is wrong at these Forums? My impression is that the vast majority of men who participate here at this particular Forum [whenever they go out in public at least] either add hip/butt pads and/or more likely at LEAST forms or bras stuffed with something? And perhaps girdles or corsets or any other type of body shape altering clothing item?

Or is my impression incorrect?

[VeronicaMoonlit]

This may be a bit controversial to some, I consider the reason to be a form of "Tracking"

Meaning I believe that a woman born female who has masculine tastes/feelings tends to get tracked into/lumped into the lesbian community. So they exist, but we call them the most hardcore masculine of "stone butches" and "bois". This also explains the recent phenomenon of some FTM's identifying as gay men. They were always attracted to men....but their own masculinity got them labeled as butches and getting lumped into the lesbian community.

It's also why when you saw talk shows some years back of TS's and drag queens, the TS's were almost all white professionals in their "pona time" while the DQ's were almost all ethnic/racial minority. But when they were talked to, it was obvious that some of those DQ's were trans too! Simple tracking/lack of information in various sub-cultures lead to transpeople of ethnic origins getting tracked into the gay/DQ community instead of the trans-community. While those upper class white trannies in the suburbs were never going to get tracked into the DQ community because they hgad more access to therapy/treatment/information.

Veronica

[Amy Fakley]

nah ... everyone asks this question, just check the archives, LOL :-)

that being said ... I've clocked lots of FtM's in public in my neck of the woods (american deep south, highly conservative college town), but my MtF trans-dar has not seen so much as a blip on the screen. There's a host of reasons ... one mentioned already is that society is a tolerant of a wider variance of gender expression for females ... a CD'ing genetic female (per your criteria) is honestly not that much of a spectacle in our society ... but a dude in a dress ... call the cops! (no literally, they will call the cops in my neck of the woods if you're clocked, with no hesitation).

I suspect it's not a matter of fewer FtMs existing, but that they are practically invisible in our society as opposed to MtFs. That being said ... we all go through amazingly similar crap, and most of it ain't good. I don't think there's a side of this fence that has particularly green grass.

[Lorileah]

Let's describe a crossdressing man then with same criteria. You HAVE to stuff a bra, wear your hair long, wear makeup, raise your voice, etc. By putting so many caveats on your question, you really limit your range.

Funny, I meet crossdressing women all the time. OK maybe they don't do everything you say. Really I never look to see if a man has a bulge nor a woman. Some makeup, no makeup? How does a man walk? I see women who are not, shall we say, light on her feet. I met a very nice young woman this weekend who was obviously taking on the male role when she was on a date with her girlfriend (who was obviously a feminine woman). The crossdresser wasn't trying to be a man, she as taking the male role, but it included a short haircut, slicked back, a white button down shirt and a tie and black slacks (forgive me I didn't look to see which way they flapped). She didn't bind...because she didn't need to. But she was a woman, she didn't choose a man's name (well maybe she did, it was Micky?). She held the chair for her GF, she had made the plans for the evening, she was obviously the one driving the bus on the date. Now was she A) a lesbian who was more male like? (This would be a yes BTW or a Bi...I didn't ask), B) a FtM crossdresser? (probably,she was presenting as a male like person), C) a FtM TS? (I doubt it but I didn't ask that would be rude). But, if you did not meet this person in the context of the GF and the venue and the date....you would just assume she liked the look of the outfit. Now, is she a crossdresser? A apex of a particularly debatable and of no consequence idea (moot point).

This is another "Dead Horse" subject. The reason people bring this up is they want to say "If they can why can't we?" and the simple answer is "You can", the only people stopping you is you. The other way of looking at this is, do you spend the whole day looking for women with socks in their pants?

[ReineD]

If you're speaking of a desire to genuinely live as a gender according to one's inner identity, the prevalence of M2F compared to F2M transsexuals is roughly two to three times as many, according to various estimates. You can look on this wiki page, but I would specifically draw your attention to resource #33 to #37 at the bottom of the page for the source documents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism#Prevalence

Here is one of the source documents: http://tgmentalhealth.com/2010/03/31...ransgenderism/

I don't know why there are more M2F than F2M TSs seeking to transition. One reason might be that vaginoplasties have been perfected, but not penectomies?



I am guessing that the prevalence of F2M crossdressers (compared to M2F CDers) is almost non-existant though, simply because the expression of opposite than birth-sex is not sexual for birth women due to having lower testosterone levels. I know that this forum does not attract a lot of people who are purely into this for sexual reasons (if it does then they are quiet about it ), but if you look at all the other websites/meet up sites/porn sites/chat groups/etc, you will see them predominately aimed at birth males.

[sometimes_miss]

because the answer is so obvious? Or is it?

Why are so few females ... Cross Dressers? [And none of this malarkey about many of them ARE CDers because they can wear pants and such please and/or THEY get away with CDing all the time etc.] Let's describe a female CDer [for the sake of this discussion] as one who would bind her breasts, stuff a sock into her pants and wear clothing to HIDE her curves, and deepen her voice and try to stand, sit, and walk "like a man". And of course wear "men's" clothes. Let's also throw in either shaving her head bald OR wearing a short wig styled in a typical male style. OOPS - absolutely no makeup of any kind either. Did I leave anything out?

You can't define FTM crossdressers as you have in the original post, because, well, most are probably not like that. Me, well, as a FTM crossdresser, I don't stuff my bra, tape back my penis, or change the way I walk, talk or move. I just wear the clothes, a wig, a girl's watch and maybe some jewelry. So, a female crossdresser might simply just wear mens clothes, pin her hair up in the back and wear a baseball cap to disguise the fact that she has long hair. Lots of women go out without make up or wear jewelry, often wearing: Tshirt, jeans, athletic socks, sneakers. Many wear a man's size watch, with the bracelet simply adjusted for a smaller wrist. I suppose some flat chested ones might even forego wearing a bra, one woman I knew wore just a camisole on a regular basis, no one could tell unless of course she got undressed or was wearing something flimsy, so that type might just wear a t shirt under a sweater or something and no one would ever know. Same with replacing panties with boxers or briefs; you'll never know. Basically, a female to male crossdresser can fly under the radar rather easily, so easily, that you've probably seen them and never even knew it. Women can, and do, wear genuine men's clothing in public. It's been accepted for over 50 years.

[Nikki_C]

What we need is a fashion designer design a line of dresses/skirt for men. And men brave enough to wear it (and not try to pass as a women. Just present himself as a men in a men dress/skirt!)

Just baby steps to get the society to accept dress/skirt on a man.

Getting closer -->mantyhose:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/08/...yes-mantyhose/

[Vickie_CDTV]

What we need is a fashion designer design a line of dresses/skirt for men. And men brave enough to wear it (and not try to pass as a women. Just present himself as a men in a men dress/skirt!)

It has been tried before, many times over the years in fact, but the idea of skirts and dresses (and even pantyhose) for men have never caught on... unfortunately.

[Sally24]

I think there are many reasons but I would like to add a personal perspective. I do personally know 1 FTM crossdresser. He goes by the name Steel and hangs out mostly around Boston.

I think if a woman was a FTM crossdresser she could do it without people even noticing. If she just liked the clothes she could do it non passing. If she was into the overall look than a binder and some padding along with a pixie haircut would do. They even make false eyebrows now so she could put temporary ones on to get a bigger brow ridge. She still would mostly appear to be a young, short man.

As far as the TG FTM's. I don't think anyone has a good handle on how many there are. I would suspect that a LARGE percentage of them live the way they want, pre op or post op. Most that I have met pass very well other than being a little short. Being sort of invisible makes it very hard to even do an informal estimate from personal experience. I would say that TS FTM would be less then MTF but not by a large margin like most would think.

[Lorileah]

What we need is a fashion designer design a line of dresses/skirt for men. And men brave enough to wear it (and not try to pass as a women. Just present himself as a men in a men dress/skirt!)

Just baby steps to get the society to accept dress/skirt on a man.

Getting closer -->mantyhose:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/08/...yes-mantyhose/

It has been tried before, many times over the years in fact, but the idea of skirts and dresses (and even pantyhose) for men have never caught on... unfortunately.

Main reason is men are chicken. They are more afraid of what they will be perceived as than they are willing to wear what they like. Besides, the designers usually harden the look with combat boots or a rough cloth or something not soft and silky. After all guys are tough, right?

[Wildaboutheels]

Oh Good Grief folks. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/285278...oms-pantyhose/

Men CAN buy and wear whatever they want. There are many other companies now making pantyhose designed for MEN besides Mantyhose because THEY MAKE MONEY.

But the QUESTION is why so few women go through all that trouble to try to present as a man [only SOME of the time] and go back and forth like so many do here.

L A T E Edit: Type Mantyhose into your searchbox. Grab a big cup of coffee before you do. Bing produces 99,900 results.

[chelle]

I've seen a good number of girls in school that I never saw wear anything that looke like girls clothes, no make up, not even style their hair. One boy wore a mini skirt (really a kilt) for a history class and what a lot of mouthing against him. A couple of guys (they were not respected by anyone) claimed they were going to beat the ____ out of them, but it was all just mouthing.
chelle

[Nikki_C]

Main reason is men are chicken.

So true... I are one!

[ReineD]

But the QUESTION is why so few women go through all that trouble to try to present as a man [only SOME of the time] and go back and forth like so many do here.

Less than "few" switch back and forth, unless you consider a young F2M who is beginning to explore his/her gender and hasn't decided on a future course of action yet. But, honestly I've known F2Ms and not one, seriously not one of them crossdresses. There's simply nothing to be gained by this for a genetic female.

... ooops, sorry, there are FtMs that do crossdress. I forgot. These are the Drag Kings. But, it's just showmanship for them, just as it is for Drag Queens.

[TeresaL]

MtF have an added testosterone induced pleasure arousal center. Later, fetish crossdressing may lose its sexual sensitivity, but that may not stop the male from dressing if anxiety is reduced by continuing.

Female at birth who crossdress (rare) probably just feel more congruent with their brain wiring - and possibly reduce their anxiety as well.

Hmm, I'm kinda reiterating what ReineD said.