What is the definition of Gender and Sex?

[sissystephanie]

Moderator's Note: I split these posts away from another thread as they were off-topic there. They do raise a good question that is better discussed in a separate thread here.

Peta, unless you have female sex organs you are a Man. Your Gender is detirmined by what organs you were born with, not by what you think. And religeon has nothing at all to do with anyones gender!

So you are a man, but you like to wear feminine clothes!! Well, so do most of us CD's on this forum!! That is why we are on here. I have been a CD for most of my life and I am currently 80 y/o! And I am dressed totally enfemme as I write this. That doesn't change anything as far as I am concerned. And yes, I do go out in public dressed enfemme almost every day. How I dress and act is my business, unless I am hurting someone else by doing so!! Be yourself and quit worrying!!

[Rianna Humble]

Peta, unless you have female sex organs you are a Man. Your Gender is detirmined by what organs you were born with, not by what you think.

Stephanie, you do not help anyone by conflating natal sex and gender. If, as her writings suggest strongly, she is transgender then you could not be further from the truth about whether she is a man or not based solely upon her sex organs.

The ONLY thing that your sex organs tells you is what your natal SEX may have been.

If someone is Intersex, then they may apparently have male sex organs but in fact be female.

If someone is transsexual then their sex organs and their brain size and configurations belong to opposite genders.

Had you have said "Your birth sex is partially determined by what sex organs you were born with" then you would have been right.

[DonniDarkness]

More I was asking why/how we can end up with our "physical sex" being the opposite of the gender of our soul.

These are my thoughts.

Gender is a mental label. Sex is a physical label. Labels do not effect the soul, because they are irrelevant to the spiritual realm. I do not believe our souls are male or female. They simply exist.

Fear of being more alone than I already am, fear of losing everyone in my life.

Once you make steps to coming out and get involved with your local LGBT community, you soon realize that your not alone. A support circle of local friends and other people who are going thru the same things you are diminish that fear in due time.

Keep your Chin up,
-Donni-

[sissystephanie]

Stephanie, you do not help anyone by conflating natal sex and gender. If, as her writings suggest strongly, she is transgender then you could not be further from the truth about whether she is a man or not based solely upon her sex organs.

The ONLY thing that your sex organs tells you is what your natal SEX may have been.

If someone is Intersex, then they may apparently have male sex organs but in fact be female.

If someone is transsexual then their sex organs and their brain size and configurations belong to opposite genders.

Had you have said "Your birth sex is partially determined by what sex organs you were born with" then you would have been right.

Rianna, your response is very different from what I have learned from the doctors that I have talked to. The sex organs you were born with are the ONLY thing that detirmine your birth sex!! If a baby is born with male sex organs, that baby is a male!! Not a Transsexual or an Intersex. Those things come later, when the baby has grown to where the mind comprehends things.

Unless an awful lot of doctors are totally wrong the sex organs that you are born with are the only thing that detirmines, not only your birth sex, but also your gender. You can change that gender by having surgery, but that is the only way it can really be changed. Just thinking you are a woman does not change any thing!! If Peta has male sex organs, then he/she is really a man!! He may think of himself as a woman, but without surgery that is not true!!

[arbon]

Unless an awful lot of doctors are totally wrong the sex organs that you are born with are the only thing that detirmines, not only your birth sex, but also your gender. You can change that gender by having surgery, but that is the only way it can really be changed. Just thinking you are a woman does not change any thing!! If Peta has male sex organs, then he/she is really a man!! He may think of himself as a woman, but without surgery that is not true!!

I think you misunderstand - gender is not determined by sex. Transsexuals change their bodies to better align with their gender - changing their bodys does not a make them their gender. They already are. My gender is female with or without surgery, it does not change and it is not determined by what's between my legs.

[DonniDarkness]

Stephanie.......

Gender is a mental awareness of ones inner self

Birth sex does not always correspond with Gender.

-Donni-

[sissystephanie]

Arbon and DonniD, you are both wrong! Gender is the sex you were born with!! It definitely is defined by the organs that you were born with.You may think whatever you like about yourself, but that does nto change your gender or your sex. You would have to have SRS to change your gender, which is also your sex!! Gender is not totally mental, though many people would like to think so!! If you think differently, ask a medical doctor his or her opinion. I have many times!!

BTW, you both look like lovely ladies in spite of the actuality! At least I believe you are both men in reality!

[arbon]

Arbon and DonniD, you are both wrong! Gender is the sex you were born with!! It definitely is defined by the organs that you were born with.You may think whatever you like about yourself, but that does nto change your gender or your sex. You would have to have SRS to change your gender, which is also your sex!! Gender is not totally mental, though many people would like to think so!! If you think differently, ask a medical doctor his or her opinion. I have many times!!

BTW, you both look like lovely ladies in spite of the actuality! At least I believe you are both men in reality!

My doctor lists me as female on everything. Thanks

You know I have to defend my gender identity out there an awefull lot, pretty much everyday, but having to do it here seems a little wrong and not to happy about it.

[Rianna Humble]

BTW, you both look like lovely ladies in spite of the actuality! At least I believe you are both men in reality!

You may believe all you want and continue to disrespect these two women but that will not make you right. Neither will quoting the doctors who you claim to have asked although you do not back up that claim with any proof that they had the first clue about gender.

It is a shame that we have to endure this kind of hate from a long-standing member of the MtF forum, but he will not succeed in driving us out.

[Kate Simmons]

For societal convenience, the label on our birth certificate reads either male or female according to the physical plumbing we were born with. Gender is determined by how we develop as a person and the things we relate to. Sex and gender can sometimes overlap in everyday life and there really are no absolutes. The bottom line is we are who we feel we think we are, physical organs notwithstanding.

[Rogina B]

You know I have to defend my gender identity out there an awefull lot, pretty much everyday, but having to do it here seems a little wrong and not to happy about it.

I completely agree!

[DeeDeeB]

Hi Stephanie,

I believe you should look into the current research which has found that we all are a combination of male and female. Genetics and hormones shift us somewhere between macho male and totally femme. Most of us here are in the middle, tending towards femme. They have even proved the sacred "Y" chromosone isn't a sure guarantee of male genetalia.

I have always believed I am a transition child, last of the boys and followed by a girl. My feminine tendencies I believe are a result of my "weakened" male genetics and "strengthened" female genetics. I have no desire to transition, but firmly believe in my feminine assignment.

I applaud your expressing yourself as feminine, but also feel you should accept, or at least not challenge the possibility you may have feminine genetics.


Dee

[Angela Campbell]

Actually Arbon and DonniD are absolutely correct. Some who do not know much about the subject often get Gender and sex mixed up but the sex is the body and the gender is in the mind. Sexual reassignment surgery changes the sex to match the gender. My sex is male....my gender is female. Then you get into sexual preferences or orientation. This gets complicated when there is a problem with sex and gender not matching.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/ar...nd-gender.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

these are just the first few articles I found but if you do some research you will see what the proper meanings of the words are.

What Stephanie got wrong is the part where he confused the two words. Here it is....the organs and the body you were born with determines your birth sex. Your gender is what develops afterward. A sex change is what changes the sex to match the gender.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Doesn't gender refere to terms or words such as he/she, male/female, man/woman, him/her and not people.

The Dictionary says 1,gender--in grammar the classification by which words are groped as masculine, feminine or neuter.
. 2, sex

[Beverley Sims]

I think I could read ten books on the subject and there would be a different interpretation each time.

[willnotwill]

Words have gender.
People have sex.
It is a *******ization of the language to apply "gender" to human behavior. It's an attempt to divorce "sex" from the "act of reproduction."

[Rianna Humble]

If a baby is born with male sex organs, that baby is a male!! Not a Transsexual or an Intersex. Those things come later, when the baby has grown to where the mind comprehends things.

This demonstrates that your authorities have no understanding of their subject. An intersex baby is born with both sets of sex organs. In the past ignorant doctors used to perform surgery to remove one set and assign a sex to the baby. In doing so they had a 50/50 chance of picking a sex that did not conform to the gender of the baby's brain. In later life those babies would suffer untold mental anguish because their brain did not match their assigned sex.

Unless an awful lot of doctors are totally wrong the sex organs that you are born with are the only thing that detirmines, not only your birth sex, but also your gender.

An awful lot of doctors used to believe that the way to cure many ailments was by giving increasing doses of arsenic. Fortunately, medical science proved them wrong. Any doctor who refuses to acknowledge the advances made by medical science is a danger to those he treats. This includes those who support your hatred of transsexuals.

You can change that gender by having surgery, but that is the only way it can really be changed.

Once again proving that your "authorities" are stuck in the past. There is conclusive proof via well published case studies that changing a person's sex organs cannot alter their gender. You are stuck in the past when ignorant people believed that gender was a case of nature not nurture.

I don't care if you believe that the earth is flat or not - after all there is as much scientific evidence for the earth being flat as there is for your anti-trans hate speech. I do care when you use your unscientific beliefs to try to deny the truth about other forum members and disrespect them by insisting that your wrong beliefs trump their scientifically proven personal experience.

If you were deliberately disrespecting me by insisting on calling me "He" in real life in my country you would actually be breaking the law.

[Kittie]

This is just a mess of semantics.

Sex
In genetic sex-determination systems, an organism's sex is determined by the genome it inherits. Genetic sex-determination usually depends on inherited sex chromosomes which carry genetic features that influence development.

Gender
Gender is a range of characteristics of femininity and masculinity. Depending on the context, the term may refer to such concepts as sex (i.e. the state of being male or female), social roles (as in gender roles) or gender identity.

Some of the comments on here are old fashioned or just plain incorrect. Misinformed, perhaps not "hateful". If however, they are indeed the latter; call me a guy all you wish, make not the mistake of thinking a single f*ck shall be given.

[CamillaCD]

I have to agree with Kittie. In Norwegian "sex" is not used to differentiate between male and female. It is used for sexual characteristics, e.g. having sex, sexual orientation, sex toys, and sex industry.

We have a word that would resemble your "gender". To avoid confusion the type of gender may be used, e.g. biological gender (chromosomes and DNA), gender identity (what your brain thinks), gender expression (clothing and mannerisms) or judicial gender.

[Angela Campbell]

I don't think I have seen any hate here. A disagreement over terms, yes. Hatred not at all. Just because someone has a different opinion on something as you do does not mean there is any hate there.

[kimdl93]

We often witness disagreements over the meaning of certain terms. Sometimes the disagreements reflect misunderstanding of meanings....for example many individuals confuse transgender with transsexual. Disagreements can also derive from differences in age and cultural background.

It's OK. Words are abstractions we use in an attempt to describe the world around us. Misinterpretations and different perspectives are inevitable. My advice is to remember that the meaning each of us assigns may be somewhat different than another persons understanding. There is no need to abandon one set and adopt another....simply state what Your definition when you employ the term so that other people have a better chance of understanding your meaning in your context.

[I Am Paula]

I haven't heard Stephanie's aguement since about 1970, and I think she may have misunderstood her Doctor, or her Doctor is living in the last century(plus some). -Celeste

[Michaela51]

Sex is what's going on between your legs, gender is what is going on between your ears.

[arbon]

I don't think I have seen any hate here. A disagreement over terms, yes. Hatred not at all. Just because someone has a different opinion on something as you do does not mean there is any hate there.

Being told your gender identity is wrong and that your really just a guy is mean, hurtful, and unnecessary to me. I don't know if he said those things out of hate or just ignorance (he did use a lot of explanation points in his statements), but regardless it is very disappointing that its allowed on a site where you would think gender identities would be a little more respected. That rather then deleting or editing those comments and warning the user to be more respectful its given its own thread for debate.

[Rogina B]

My advice is to remember that the meaning each of us assigns may be somewhat different than another persons understanding. There is no need to abandon one set and adopt another....simply state what Your definition when you employ the term so that other people have a better chance of understanding your meaning in your context.

I often post that people have to be very careful with "labels" as many people don't comprehend or give it quick study and form an image that satisfies the label.Seems to me that the "Transsexual" label is way too powerful to be just thrown around easily. The label brings up a different image than the term "Transgender" seems to.Transgender easily allows you to "temper it a bit" as you explain yourself more easily. Thursday night,I was shown a poll taken two years ago at my UU church regarding the understanding of the LGBTQ world. The 80 members that participated gave support[to what I have said]as to the lack of understanding of "T world" labels. "Clinical" is great,but that isn't dealing with the minds of the average person.