Are you CD or Transgender or both?

[MaryAnn40c]

I do know a lot of GG's who do not wear makeup or a dress...I feel that if you wear women clothes(jeans,bra,nylons ect) you are transgender. If you wear women clothing at the house and dont go out then you are CD.....both are perfect people in my books.

[prene]

I am not sure if the term matters.
But I am trying to understand myself ... I am definately a cder with lots of transgender in me.

[ReineD]

It's just amazing how there are so many twists on so few words, and all depending on a person's personal experience.

Thank goodness that in any other topic than gender, people have pretty much the same understanding of word meanings, else communication would be chaotic! Imagine a mother whose child has ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) REFUSING to use that label for her ADHD child because she doesn't believe he is hyperactive nor does she like the term "disorder", so she tells the new teacher that her child has ICA (insufficient concentration affliction), and she expects the teacher to know what that is and to treat her child accordingly.

[Joanie_Shakti]

I'm a lumberjack - ok?

[max]

Transgender, though still trying to figure out what exactly that means to me.

I think the tipping point for that identification was when I came across this set of questions:

1. If I had a magic button that you could press that would make you wake up tomorrow as a girl, with everyone else understanding you and relating to you as a girl, irrevocably but painlessly, would you press it?

2. Alternatively, if I had a magic button that you could press that would make you wake up tomorrow still as a guy, but without any of the gender issues you've been having, not questioning your gender, and able to live happily as a guy with zero dysphoria, would you press it?

3. If I had both of those buttons, which one would you rather press, all other things being equal?

4. If I had a test that could tell you if you were a guy or a girl, which answer would you be hoping for as you took it? Which way would you try to skew your answers, if you did (consciously or not) try to skew them in either direction?

5. If you washed up on a desert island, by yourself, but with any amount of both male and female clothing, with no hope of rescue but otherwise everything that you needed for a relatively healthy and happy life, would you choose to present as male? female? neither? a mix of the two? one way some of the time, the other way the rest? If for some bizarre reason a lifetime supply of hormones washed up with you as well, do you think you'd take them? What if you washed up with the button from the first thought experiment - in a situation where you were by yourself, would you press it?

6. Let's say I had a test that asked about all of the things, very thorough, and at the end it would tell you, with 100% accuracy, whether or not you were trans. So you take it, and it tells you, "Well, you've got some mild gender confusion, but you're definitely not trans, and you shouldn't transition." How would that make you feel?

7. On the other hand, what if the test told you "Yup, you're definitely trans all right, and you should probably start planning your transition." - how would you feel about that?

and felt in my gut the answer to #2 was no because I would feel like I was losing part of my identity.

[Marilyn Beck]

Ok let's see what am I? Um..human I think we can agree on that especially with DNA testing now.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. But I think your broad-brush use of the label "human" is quite offensive to the alien-from-outer-space members of this forum.

[denese013]

After 40+ years of being myself,I consider myself as a TS=Trend Setter

[AmyGaleRT]

I am certainly a crossdresser. I consider myself to be outwardly expressing the feminine part of my soul, the part I have named "Amy," while I'm dressed, so I will also accept the "transgender" descriptor.

I like the Native American term, too..."two-spirited." That seems to describe what I feel.

- Amy

[Marleena]

I'd say keep it inclusive though, strength in numbers and all that.
Infighting only makes it easier for bigots to tear us apart, knock us down, and deny us of our rights and dignity as human beings.

Good point!

This discussion has been a good one for sure. Everybody is having their say and it is evident some don't want to be under the TG umbrella or be called TG. Nothing wrong with that either. All MTF's being placed under the umbrella is helping all of us in the battle for acceptance and human rights. That's why I see no harm in all of us being called transgender. BUT I will never bring this topic up again.

[Joanne f]

It was not until I answered GinaX's " How do you think" that I really had a think about it , so what did I come up with , well I do not think that I am a CD ( just not dedicated enough for that ) so that leaves Tg, then I thought , (which is hard for me to do ) "what does that mean", that I have the thoughts/ways of both genders, then trying to activate my little brain again, I thought what does that mean as a GG can have all the thoughts and ways that I have and be a normal GG after all they can do most things theses days that a man can do , so you have to dig deeper and I came up with the idea that I am TG simply because I think or have the brain of a female (although thinking that I have a brain might be going a bit to far) which has to try and match a male body as I don't see that you can do it the other way around , male body trying to match a female brain for what ever I do body wise I think " well a female can also do this" .so I am no different in that way, it is not as simple as having to dual thinking brain but more of a brain versus a body issue and trying to balance it that way .
If you think that is confusing try being in my shoes (high of flats)
Now what was the question , Oh I know , I think I might be TG as I definably do not think like a male ( well an Alfa male) but then how would I know how one of those thinks

[Sophie_C]

Ok, so for me, this is easy, since I have known I've been transgendered FOREVER. And, in fact, I don't really get anything sexual from dressing. I don't really even "need" to dress like many people here. However, I do have what is, very much, a feminine nature to myself, which I've always had to suppress (since a young age, I remember this), and I really wish I didn't have to. Maybe one day I'll give in. Who knows?

In terms of the terms I agree with the OP... however, it's worth saying that everyone has to start somewhere and people can get confused along the way. I'm certain that some people who are transgender think they're just crossdressers for a period of time, and hell, some people may tell themselves that their whole lives. I don't think many crossdressers wrongly transition due to the SOC and sheer stats from those who have. If anything, transitioning is one of the most successful "treatments" in the world.

Of course, one's gender is independent from a sexual fetish, but if someone really doesn't know themselves all that well, they may not be able to distinguish between the two. I also believe sometimes that severely repressed transgender people may use crossdressing as a "coping mechanism" to basically ward off their own nature as long as possible.

We must remember to be empathetic about that and not "elitist" just because a flower hasn't bloomed yet, or can't bloom, since it's been blocked of sunlight. Likewise, we shouldn't demonize crossdressers. Everyone's got the right to live their life and fulfill all of their desires, provided it doesn't harm anyone else. I've changed a bit, and while in principle, I do hate the joke drag queens make of the entire trans community, but now I can't blame the girls (many who are transgender themselves) trying to make a living. After all, a huge percentage of people who transition face extreme prejudice, and unless doing it at a very young age, can't even get a regular job.

Let's keep the distinction, but also be positive about it. I've always the best thing for most of us is to just accept and "own up" to "being a tranny" unless we've taken some extreme measure, so let's just do it and live our lives.

[Fiona K]

It's a classic case of nations devided by a common language, on this side of the pond the term Transgender describes anyone on a spectrum, not just one definition.
This may help: I found this definition of the trans-umbrella on the Scottish Transgender Alliance website. Better than many I've seen....

http://www.scottishtrans.org/Transgender_Umbrella.aspx

[Cheryl T]

Since the clothing is not the reason I dress and the emotional comfort and well being is I would have to call myself Transgendered.
It's so much more than just putting on something the world deems feminine. I'm sure at the beginning that's what it was, but it allowed me to find myself and realize there is so much more to me. I've always felt I was more female than male, just never sure how much more. Still searching for that answer.

[Rianna Humble]

I’ve argued (discussed) at length about how TG does not accurately describe every type of crossdresser. I once read someone’s dogmatic comment that crossdressing, regardless of its origins, intent, or purpose, is a transgendered act. In my case, crossdressing better describes my “act,” since I cross from one gender to another, via clothing, play with it for a bit, and then revert to my birth gender – since no permanent transformation or transmutation took place, nor was intended,

If we accept your definition that trans-something implies transformation or transmutation, could you tell me in what way transatlantic flights or sea-crossings transform or mutate the Atlantic?

On the other hand, if we accept the dictionary definition of trans as being a Latin prefix meaning to "cross" then we can see that neither Transatlantic nor Transgender define a permanent change to the state of something. Rather they define an often impermanent crossing from one thing to another (transatlantic from one side of the Atlantic to the other and Transgender from one gender expression to another).

I assume that the heart and soul of a transgendered person is always opposite their birth gender.

We all know the saying about assume.

As a transsexual I fall into the spectrum spectrum of transgender individuals, but I can easily debunk your assumption (since you include the word "always"). My gender now is as it was at birth since my transsexuality began when I was in the womb. On the other hand, my sex at birth did not conform to my gender.

[mariehart]

The label thing, it matters to some not so much to others. The simple thing that unites us is the fact that we were all born male and at it simplest we dress in women's clothes. (I'm ignoring FtM in this case).

The motivation for doing so varies clearly. Just as well no one introduced sexuality. Gay, bi, straight. There's another complication.

It's not that important to me. When I started dressing as a girl. I came across the term transvestite. So I went with that. Later I met up with a social group of transvestites. It was here that I noticed there were differences. Many were essentially men, often married, who dressed as women and enjoyed it. Then there were others. One of the latter rather tartly referred to the former as a 'Man's club where they happened to dress in women's clothes.'

I was one of the others. But we all got on fine. It was through this that I met my first TS. She seemed rather sad. I couldn't see myself like that.

So I stuck with the TV thing and only gradually over the years would admit to myself that actually there was more to it.

Now I'm quite comfortable with the fact of who I am. Not always happy about it. Externally I'm male, internally, in my mind. I'm female. Many of my mannerisms and behaviour are female and this is often obvious to others but I can't tell.

I rarely dress fully as a woman anymore. But I often partially dress in an ambigious way which I think gives me licence to relax and stop pretending.

So what's my label? Actually I don't care. You can define me any way you want. I know who I am, finally.

[Erica Marie]

Could we maybe use the term "androgynous" either we are not sure or we are comfortable in both roles or modes if you want to say. When I am in male mode I am comfortable with myself, I dont feel out of place. When I am dressed enfemme I am comfortable that way too. I dont feel a strong urge to have to live out any specific role. Maybe I am forced by society and the norms set forth to play certain roles at certain times. Maybe Im just confused????

[Jennifer in CO]

OK ok...my 5 cents....

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman, you are a woman. If you were born a man, your TS.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

conversely,

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man, you are a man. If you were born a woman, your TS.

single definition of androgynous -
purposely presenting as a mix of both sexes to screw with the minds of the general public who's sole purpose in life is to put all individuals into a single-sexed box of either male or female and they cant do it with you....

hows them apples....

Jenn

[Fiona K]

OK ok...my 5 cents....

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman, you are a woman. If you were born a man, your TS.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

conversely,

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man, you are a man. If you were born a woman, your TS.

single definition of androgynous -
purposely presenting as a mix of both sexes to screw with the minds of the general public who's sole purpose in life is to put all individuals into a single-sexed box of either male or female and they cant do it with you....

hows them apples....

Jenn

We'll have to agree to disagree, I and my friends identify as Transvestites, I can assure you there is no sexual motive in who and what we are. To assume otherwise is 1950s psychology, somewhat insulting and beyond which most European therapists (at least) have progressed.
Remember the term "Crosdresser" is simply English for the Latin term, Transvestite. Over here it's the same thing.

[DebbieL]

This is where I am. To the world, we are the last letter in LGBT. One term to encompass all.

This really is the critical point. For legal purposes, transgender covers the broadest spectrum, from the under-dresser to the pre-SRS transsexual to the post-SRS transsexual. One of the key concepts is that anyone who is transgendered and performing well should not be harassed by supervisors, coworkers, or subordinates in the workplace. The same is true for someone who is either actually OR PERCEIVED as lesbian or gay. Bisexuals is probably the largest of all the LGBT groups, but also more "in the closet". Transgenders are the hardest group to identify because, when taken in the broad spectrum, they may be the largest, but also the most "stealthy" group.

I feel that when we start trying to break it up, we cause a chasm that will confuse those outside of our little world.

When we break out the various distinctions, it's largely to help distinguish the groups INCLUDED. Transgender INCLUDES transvestites, cross-dressers, non-op transsexuals, pre-op transsexuals in transition, and post-op transsexuals. Laws protecting the rights of LGBT normally protect us all against discrimination and sexual harassment in the workplace, school, and businesses. Many hate crimes laws such as the Matthew Shepard law provide for stiffer penalties for crimes against those who are any of LGBT.

But to each their own and we can call ourselves whatever we want.

For legal purposes, both our self-identification AND perception of others is protected. For example, even someone who has no desire to transition and no desire for same sex partners - but is PERCEIVED to be transgendered or homosexual could be protected if it becomes clear that they are being harassed or threatened because of the actual or perceived status.

I also think there are some here that need to do a little could searching.

Many of us struggle most of our lives trying to understand where we fit on the spectrum of transgender. As children, we may get called "Sissy", which makes us a target for real physical violence, and we go into "Stealth mode". We may struggle to avoid being caught by parents, siblings, playmates, or anyone else who may have expressed a negative opinion toward anyone in the LGBT spectrum.

Many of us keep our secret for years, even keeping the secret from spouses and children.

When we DO come out, we often struggle which how much we want to own. We may even struggle with fantasy vs reality. For example, we may have the fantasy of being women on a 24/7 basis, but the reality of having to wear heels, wig, make-up, and maintain a nice feminine figure tends to be a lot more work than we had in our fantasy.

In some cases, when we do finally disclose, we will try to do damage control. For example; I told my first wife I was just a transvestite, but I knew that in my mind I was transsexual.

Some of us really don't know what we are. Others are more practical and pragmatic about who they are. Others know what they are.

There are a few gender identity tests that suggest many different scenarios. For example, if a magical being told you that you could be turned into a girl full time, part time, or at will, which would you choose? By taking away the complications of transition and being assured of a completely successful outcome, the test helps to identify one's "core" identity.

Another question suggests "If you won the lottery and knew your finances would be taken care of - would you transition?". This removes the financial barrier, but leaves the actual transition process on the table. Many who are core transsexuals would not be willing to go through the pain and duration of transition - perhaps because they have too much invested in being a man.

Another question suggests "If you knew that you could not lose your job while in transition, would you transition?". This leaves the financial obligation in place, the transition process in place, and the transition time in place, but takes the risks of job loss off the table. Others questions take the risk of loss of wives and children off the table.

They will state they have no gender issues in one thread and then in another say they want to spend time as a woman.

Again, there are factors that distinguish one's core identity vs what might be practical. One might be fully transsexual in mind/spirit and desperately want to transition, but are blocked by factors such as:
1 - Likelihood of a positive outcome - if you are over 6 foot tall, have hair everywhere, and have a deep bass voice - it might be very difficult to pass, no matter how much surgery and hormones are taken.
2 - Potential loss of family - many teen transsexuals fear that if one or both of their parents knew - they would be kicked out of the house. Many transsexuals do end up in the street.
3 - Potential loss of security - many transsexuals fear loss of job, home, and/or alimony or child support that would leave them destitute, even if they were gainfully employed.
4 - Potential loss of love - many transsexuals experience the loss of love of a wife or girl-friend.
5 - Medical persecution - Until recently, psychologists and psychiatrists were split on whether to support transition or to try and encourage acceptance of birth gender.
6 - Medical torture - in the 1950s and 1960s, psychiatrists often used electroshock - without anesthesia - to try and "shut down" the "unnatural desires" - when that didn't work lobotomy was next.
7 - Physical Abuse - violence against transsexuals starts very young and as a result, can force them into "deep stealth mode".
If you know you are going to be physically beaten, cut, bruised, terrorized, even tortured - by playmates, siblings, and/or parents, stealth becomes a matter of survival.
8 - Sexual abuse - Many have the "Sissy Fantasy" of being raped or forced to transition by a woman, but the fear of being raped or sexually abused by a man is a real nightmare.
9 - Disappointing presentation outcome - Many transsexuals fear that even after hormones and SRS, they will still look like "a guy in a dress".
10 - Disappointing sexual outcome - until around 1990, SRS created a cosmetic appearance of a woman, but the ability to have sexual orgasm was gone or limited.
11 - Pain of the transition process - electrolysis, laser, and post-op dilation can all be very painful. In many cases, it can be hours of painful sessions to be repeated over time.
12 - Cost of the transition process - all aspects of transition can cost anywhere from $50,000 to $250,000 depending on what is done and where it is done.

Many transgenders struggle with all of the issues above and it is only when they have confronted and dealt with those issues that they begin to really be able to freely choose whether or not to transition.
Even

Those would be conflicting thoughts in my opinion.

For most transgenders, conflicting thoughts are a way of life. Often, there is a struggle within between the desire to survive and the desire to be honest.
On the back of the AA Anniversary Medallion is a saying "To thine own self be true" - yet for the transgender, this seems like an impossible request.
Many are terrified to tell even their closest intimate partner, their wife or girl-friend, for fear of losing them. They can't even bring themselves to tell prospects.

For myself, as a transsexual - I found it hard to accept love, acknowledgement, or public recognition - because I would think "Yes, but I can't be myself (Debbie) with you".
When my parents would give me praise, I would think "Yes, but you won't accept ME (Debbie)".
Even when I was being complimented by a lover, there was always the fear, or knowledge that they couldn't or wouldn't accept ME.

In my case, I coped by becoming a clown. In fact, at Halloween, I wanted to go as a princess or even just as a pretty school-girl or beautiful woman, but I would end up going as "Freddy The Freeloader" - or similar Hobo/Clown character. One year I wanted to go as Genie from I Dream of Genie - but settle for being the King of Siam - so I could wear the silks and satins, but had to be a boy.
Another year I went as a matador, again because I wanted to be a girl, but mom suggested something more like "Blue Boy" instead.

We each have to find what is in us on our own, so it may just be a sign of a future realization.

One of the great things about sites like this is that we don't have to do it alone. The various groups and related resources help us to communicate with each other, to share common experience.
I searched for 30 years before I finally connected with Virginia (Of Tri-ESS) on a usenet newsgroup. I had tried to find information on transsexualism in public libraries (waste of time back then), in book stores (also a waste), and even in adult bookstores ( more fantasy than reality). I met a few drag queens (slightly different conversation since I still preferred girls). When I tried to talk to my parents, doctors, psychologists, and social workers about being transgendered, I was shut down immediately. They were literally NOT ALLOWED to have those conversations with me, because in Colorado, in the 1960s and 1970s, it was ILLEGAL to be transgendered. The "Treatment" was usually electro-shock or lobotomy. They hoped that NOT talking about it would keep me out of the Pueblo facility (State psychiatric hospital). The great irony is that across the border, in Trinidad New Mexico, they were performing some of the first SRS procedures in the USA.

[stephNE]

OK, I'll put in two more cents. The labels are interesting, though I think they can probably be interpreted differently by different people. I am a man, 100% hetero, but enjoy dressing and presenting as a woman. I do this for a variety of reasons, including I feel there is a certain amount of femininty in me (inner woman) that I need to express, and when doing so, I feel so much more comfortable and relaxed than I do when in guy-mode. It isn't a sexually related thing.
So am I a:
CD? - yes because I do crossdress,
Transgender? - also yes, because at times, I present and "live" in both girl and guy modes
but trasvestite, or fetish? -no.

[Beverley Sims]

Too much deep thinking here.
It confuses the hell out of me.

[Kate Simmons]

Thought about this a little more. I've been called a lot of things in my time, not all good. Call me what you will, but never, ever call me late for dinner. Carry on.

[becky77]

Well before I joined this forum I would have said I was a Crossdresser. But I now realise that we are at different levels and different needs. For example I know that we have a lot of crossdressers on here that do just that really, crossdress, like to put on women's clothing for whatever reasons and thats it, many don't even want wigs or makeup etc, I recognise this is also where some who like to CD for fetish also sit.
Then there is the next bracket that wish to take it further, the image they present must be as convincing as possible and most likely they have issues of varying degrees about there identity, this is possibly the most diverse bracket with the most confusion (I belong here).
The last bracket is obviously Transexual.
Now bracket 1, they are usually pretty secure in what they are and are often the first to question the various sexuality posts etc. They can't understand why we want to take it further, why we need to leave the closet and tell people, why we might want to brave the public.
And bracket 3, they also know exactly where they stand, they want to do whatever it takes to be the woman they feel inside, or reach a level they are comfortable with.
It's us poor folks in bracket 2 that probably write most of the threads and are wanting to know where we are going and what it all means. Unfortunately we are all on different stages of the same path, some still very much like their masculine side and others are near to and may yet go on to transition, the rest are somewhere inbetween.
So if your bracket 1 it's pretty easy to say I am a crossdresser, simple. Bracket 3 the Transexuals your sorted. Everyone else? I'm stuffed if I know so the umbrella of Transgendered seems to do the job?

I would just like to say I am in no way trying to categorise anyone, I was just oversimplifying the message to get to my point, if anyone takes offense it wasn't intended.

[Lorileah]

That's why I see no harm in all of us being called transgender. BUT I will never bring this topic up again.

Oh sure NOW you see the light

Could we maybe use the term "androgynous"

Not really. It means blending male and female characteristics into a non-gender being. Since the idea most here have is to appear as females, that would not fit.

OK ok...my 5 cents....

Has anyone tallied the money yet? We may be sitting on a fortune

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror...

At least we can wake up in the morning.

As far as not wanting to be under an umbrella, that usually works as long as it does not rain. There are many here who don't see any advantage to being under the LGBT umbrella either. Mostly because without realizing it they are reaping the benefits of the L&G communities without having to work very hard at it. (Honestly Bisexuals are not really discriminated against because they don't stand out and can fade away easily). However, recent L&G feelings show that they are not wanting to be associated with the "T" community. This is because as a group the general public see us as perverts and freaks, whereas the L&G's have worked to be assimilated. We are the uncle a the table no one really talks about. BUT, through the umbrella we have gained a lot of rights by association. Me? I like when I can get support from more people. It makes me more secure and lets me see that there are others like me. I like being under the umbrella. It keeps me dry when it rains, shelters me from the feces when it flies, and shades me when things get too hot.

[Ressie]

OK, I think I have it straight now. If I'm home en femme, I'm a crossdresser. If I'm outside en femme and it's raining I'm under the transgender umbrella? lol