Feelings of Selfishness

[pacificblue]

I need some advice because I felt something odd this evening while out with my wife.

So my wife and I went out to eat just about an hour ago and I was dressed drab, en homme, whatever you would like to call it. Well before we got to the restaurant she surprised me by taking a detour and stopping by the small Goodwill near our house. I love shopping at Goodwill because great clothes, great price, great selection.

She informed me that we were going shopping. Since coming out to her as a transsexual she has been much more involved with my dressing and is trying to take a more active role in treating me how I would like. She still slips her pronouns but assures me that it's just habit.

Anyways, we get inside the store and immediately she goes to the racks and starts looking through the clothing. She's giving me things and suggesting some really terribly, awful, awful things for me to wear and try on. I think it's just because she doesn't know my style yet and was grabbing anything. Cute really

This whole time though I have this kind of... dark, hard knot in my stomach. Something I couldn't put my finger on. I didn't want to look at the clothes, try them on or even shop around. I just felt sort of bad during the whole thing.

I let her know how much I appreciate her being active in this, supporting me, surprising me and bringing me ugly clothes but asked if we could please go. She obliged but figured there was something wrong. In the car she told me she was disappointed I had not bought anything because she was looking forward to seeing what I chose.

Then I knew what I was feeling. I felt selfish, really selfish. All this me, me, me. Shopping for me. What I wanted to buy and wear. What my style was. Me, me, me. I don't really like being the center of attention and I certainly don't like being selfish. The idea of spending OUR money on something that focused almost solely on me really irked something in my stomach.

Another thing is the fact that I didn't NEED any more clothes. I have like five items of female clothing to myself and my wife lets me wear whatever clothes she has that I like (as long as I don't stretch it). I have several articles of men's clothing. So I'm spending money of something that I see as almost totally superfluous that really only benefits me. I felt guilty and selfish. I didn't feel shame, I'm proud of who I am, but I did feel silly and selfish.

My wife understands but suggested I come to the boards for advice.

[Laura28]

Hi Pacific Blue, i know what you mean i also feel selfish sometimes and dont like being the center of attention either. My wife is great and loves me for who i am and encourges my dressing, but there are times were i am always talking about dressing and i have to remember there are many other things we can talk about. When we go shopping together we always get both of us something that helps. If you wife enjoys you dressing and it makes you happy which in turn makes her happy then it isnt only focused on you. I havent gone out dressed, yet??? and we have kids at home so i mostly underdress when at home, so when i get a chance to get fully dressed that is all i talk about ( this occurs when i am traveling) so i have to remind my self to ask her how her day is going and how she is, if didnt i would do nothing but talk to her about what i am wearing etc.... I would suggest you ask your wife how she feels does she think you selfish? If dressing makes you happy and that in turn makes your wife happy then it is not being self fish..

[Miriam-J]

I understand and can very much relate to your feelings about this, Blue. I go through the same feelings once in a while when shopping with my wife. But, I try to remind myself of something a wise person taught me long ago: "Sometimes the greatest gift we can give someone is to accept what they have to give". If we only give, give, give, then we deprive others, including those we love, of the same opportunity. For the sake of their own feelings, we need to accept the gift of their time and assets. Your wife sounds like the type of giving person who needs this satisfaction, so please quietly accept - and say thank you graciously.

Miriam

[Angela Campbell]

I bet you have gone shopping with her when she got all the stuff too right?

[kimdl93]

I'd suggest that you lighten up a bit and have some fun. Try on some things, even if you hate them. That's half the fun. Eventually, you and your wife might stumble upon some things you like. from what you said, You apparently don't have a very large wardrobe. Let your wife have some fun in helping build your wardrobe ...goodwill clothes aren't going,to break the bank!

[jillleanne]

Can't recall if I ever experienced that feeling of selfishness but I have been shopping and just didn't want to be there. Just not in the mood I guess. I do know this as our experience: We pretty much shop together at any given time. I will gather anything I like for me or her, and she does the same. When we compare carts, we keep use one cart for the keepers and one for the rejects. It matters not if I walk away empty handed or vice versa. We both have far too many outfits so it's not an issue. Also, my s/o has a lifelong habit of picking out things she likes, only to put them all back just before checking out. I just laugh along with her and off we go elsewhere. I do have one advantage however in that we pretty much wear/like similar styles so her tastes and mine mirror each other so when shopping anything she picks out usually is to my liking. We also share clothing( she wears mine mostly) tops, jackets, etc. so that also helps. There are many days that neither one of us want to shop so the other just agrees to forget about it, not a big deal to either of us. We are very honest with each other about likes and dislikes in clothing/shoes so sharing opinions is the norm. Whomever the giver or receiver is at any given time is irrevelant to us.

[Kate Simmons]

Crossdressing can become a two edged sword for sure unless we strive to become a master swordsman. That takes a lot of practice my friend, it doesn't happen overnight.

[Eryn]

While we want others to be accepting of us sometimes the toughest person to convince is...ourselves.

I love shopping with my wife. We wear the same size, but our body types are different and different things look good on her and me. We each get an armload of clothes, find a big dressing room, and have fun trying things on. Sometimes we find something that looks amazing, sometimes we walk out empty-handed. To us, the togetherness of helping each other is the important thing.

Sometimes I worry about buying too many clothes. My wife uses her wardrobe every day while I only use mine for a couple of days per week but we have about the same size wardrobes. It's been pointed out to me that I derive more pleasure from my clothes than a typical GG so the investment can be considered a recreational expense. As long as your clothing expenditures aren't causing you and your wife hardship there is no harm in both of you having nice things to wear.

[Anne2345]

If you really are TS, and your wife is this accepting, accommodating, and approving of you, I say get over yourself and go with it. Hell, whether you are TS or not, just get over yourself and go with it. You know how many members on this board would love to be in your place?? Just scroll randomly through threads and check it out . . . .

[ReineD]

Then maybe it's not about the clothes for you.

You say you are transsexual. Would you like to change your body?

I gather that for some (many?) post-op transsexuals, clothes become utilitarian just as they are for GGs: jeans, tops, comfortable shoes, etc.

[Tara D. Rose]

Hi pacificblue. I can so relate to how you were feeling when you were with your wife and out shopping for you some girl clothes. I know that some of us, and not all, but you and I are in those percentages of cd's that do have such wonderful and supporting wives. And so we are out shopping, and our beloved wives hold up one item after another, and they are just not to our liking or to our taste as what we envision ourselves to wear. My wife and I have done the very same thing. And after about 8 or 10 items are shown to us, and we can clearly see that almost everything she holds up just isn't working at all.
Then we become afraid that our wives will get her feelings hurt when we turn down everything she holds up and or suggests for us. We have been there several times. We will walk into the store full of excitement, then we , as cd's become a little disappointed at the little choice of clothes that would be to our liking and taste. And when we turn down the item she holds up again and again, we start to feel for her, for she is trying so hard to help us out and we really do appreciate that tremendously.
And we know it's not our wives fault that the choices are slim pickin's, and we become disappointed and we then add that our wives become disappointing because they're 2 kinds of disappointments going on, but she only sees one. Her disappointment is like every item she suggests for you, you do not like it. And then, as a man, we know that when our wives hold something up, we naturally want to say, yes that is a good one.

We, my wife and I have been through the very same thing. I didn't really let her know my feelings at those times as we were driving home, she just thought, we couldn't find anything at all that would please both of us. And knowing that these times do not happen often, we had high hopes that we would return home with some glamorous things that would make us feel so good inside. The disappointments come on strong, and we begin to really just feel so down on ourselves. We wonder, well when will the next opportunity come along for us.

I have sunk into a deep depression just because of this one thing and have done so on more than a few occasions. When we come home empty handed, I start feeling guilty, to have supporting wives, that want to help us shop, but the choices of clothes, are not to our liking.

I feel that we should talk very in depth to our wives about this feeling that does come on, when we do not find what we're looking for, but our sweet wives are right there giving all the help, love and support that only some cd's would dream of having. And we find ourselves wanting more, like how come we cannot find the type of clothes we envision ourselves to have, but yet cannot find when those rare times come about, and to go home with emptiness. It becomes frustrating for both, the husband and wife. We (cd's), then feel so guilty, she's willing to help, with all of her love, we feel that maybe she envisions a different look for you than what you envision for yourself. It’s really is hard to put into words those feeling of guilt, but I can tell you, that I have often felt the same way. It would be like if I wasn't even married and was out shopping for clothes that I want and that I envision Tara to wear and to look like, and then to come home and not buying anything at all, for not finding those particulars that we see in our heads. At least that way, we would share the problem of disappointments just and only to ourselves.
But , when we are married, and our wives are helping us, and you cannot find what you see in your head, and you clearly see that she sees you quite differently than you envision for yourself, then those feeling of disappointment come raging on, and you know she doesn't quite understand your guilty feeling's, and only you know that, then you sink to and even lower part of guilt for being what you are, with the knowledge that your beloved wife is by your side, and it's so hard to explain to her, all of these things going through your mind.

My wife, used to ask me, "What's wrong?" on our way back home after a shopping trip like that. I would tell her I just feel so guilty of who I am honey. She asks "What do you mean?” I tell her, "I just feel so guilty, I feel guilty of who I am and with coming home now with no purchases, and baby, I know you were trying so hard, it wasn't your fault that they didn't have what I wish we could have found”. She’d said she understood, but I don't think she really did.
Sometimes our wives envision "US" as looking a certain way as a woman, while we envision a different look, and so we drive home, and as a cd, it brings us down when we find nothing we like, and especially when our wives are with us, and she holds up so many items and we shake our heads.

My wife has told me many times that she would rather shop for Tara than for herself. And the same for me, I would rather shop for my wife for things she wants than for myself.
I could imagine, if I kept holding up items for her and she kept shaking her head no. I guess it all boils down to letting your wife know this, and that you have a different vision of the type and kinds of clothes that you see pacificblue wearing, and what kinds of clothes you will feel your best in. Just talk to her a few days later after a very disappointing shopping trip like this.

As always, true sweet loving communication is the key, but, that doesn't mean the next shopping trip that both of you find the kinds of clothes you see yourself wearing.

I hope this helps.
Love & Respect,
Tara D. Rose

[ReineD]

My SO and I don't shop together, sadly. She HATES to browse. Doesn't matter what store (clothes, housewares, electronics, hardware) or how she's dressed, she knows ahead of time what she wants, she'll make a beeline for it, buy it and leave. I can't do that and it's really stressful shopping with her because she (or he) always wants to leave! I refuse to shop with her. I always feel like I'm missing out on looking at the things that I want to look at. lol

As to the husbands feeling bad because they don't like what the wives are holding up, I've got to say that when I shop with my female friends we don't get into hurt feelings if the other person doesn't like something. The conversation goes like this:

Me: What do you think of this?
Girlfriend: Not my taste.
Me: I think it's cute, I'll try it on.
Girlfriend: Cool, I'll go with you because I want to try "this" on (something that I would never pick for myself).

No big deal. We don't expect to have matching tastes. We're two different people!

[Tara D. Rose]

But ReineD, it is totally different when you are shopping among your friends (GG's) opposed to shopping with your wife or SO.

What you are saying here would be like me shopping with my male friends, and we're looking at leather jackets or music cd's. If I were out with my friend Mike and showed him a cd disk of my favorite artist, and he said, I hate that group, it wouldn't phase me at all, as well as I would do the same with him, if he asked me, what do you think about this shirt or this DVD or music CD. If my friend Mike said I hate that artist, it would not phase me a bit.

It isn't the same thing when shopping with your friends as it is with your wife or SO. It is not a fair comparison.

[Maria in heels]

Pacificblue...did you ever stop to think that your wife just wanted to take you out, and maybe she just caught you off guard? My wife buys me little things from time to time, and I become embarrassed, I really can't say why, and love the gifts that she buys. I think that some of it is the pressure that we put on ourselves? The feeling of selfishness because the entire concentration of our spouse is on us I think is just an excuse that we have to protect ourselves. Yes, I walk past the store in the mall, looking and wanting that dress in the window, yet I don't have the courage to tell her "lets go inside and I want to see that dress". For Christmas, she bought be a lovely black party dress...when I opened my gift, I didn't want to tell her that right away, it "wasn't my style" and that she should have known better when she bought it...I still have the tag on it and hopefully it will "grow" on me, because I don't want to hurt her feelings.

Maybe this feeling was triggered because as you wrote, she was pulling horrible things for you to try on, and this may have caused the turn off/shut down? i know that I can walk into a store, pick out something and she would like it because it fits her style, yet she has no clue as to what I like and want? I have dresses, tops, skirts hanging in the closet next to my other "clothes" so its not because she doesn't see them. The worst was when we were in Nordstrom, and she came over with a pair of high heels - they were the wrong size, and just weren't for me - neither for her as well, but she was trying to be all cute by showing them to me. However, I have to say that again, I picked out the shoes that she bought that day and EVERYONE at her job just loved them as always...<sigh>

Its really not so bad...we buy them things, and sometimes, we just need a little something....

[Brenda79135]

GM and GG shop differently. Market research has been done so that the shopping for clothes is more aimed at GF. This is apparent in all department stores. The womens sections are anywhere to 2 to 4 times larger thatn the mens section. Browsing is encouraged in the womens section and not so much in the mens. GM are trained early in life to get in get what you need and get out. I saw this my entire life growing up. GGs are encouraged to try everything on before they buy anything. When GGs go shopping in groups it is more of a social event than a manditory I have to get this done event. Your wife may be trying to bring you into her circle of social interactions. Your SO should first be your friend then your life companion. She now has a new friend to go shopping with and wants to help out. With her making the effort to help you shop shows that she has accepted you for your fem side and wants to foster that relationship. My wife and I have started reading COSMO togther and discussing the articles and the fashions that are on display. This has helped me get a feeling of what she thinks look good and what I thing looks good. We are starting to act like girlfriends instead of husband/wife GM/GG. This has created an environment that gives us much more to talk about. Talk with your wife about this. You may find that this is what she is shooting for. A relationship that there is more in common than just mundane marriage topics.

[ReineD]

The idea of spending OUR money on something that focused almost solely on me really irked something in my stomach.

My wife buys me little things from time to time, and I become embarrassed, I really can't say why, and love the gifts that she buys.

Question: Would you both feel the same way if your wives got you something unrelated to feminine clothing or accessories? For example if she knew that your Philips screwdriver had become stripped and she got you a new one, or if she bought that new CD (music) that she knew you really liked? Or if you love a particular type of expensive food (king crab legs?) and she got some as a surprise with a nice bottle of wine?

When I buy a gift for my SO, I get something that I feel s/he will appreciate. I don't make value judgements about what it is. I just want to see my SO smile.

Also, does the embarrassment have anything to do with (I'm just guessing here) a male socialization that dictates that the guy is supposed to pay for things or be the provider somehow?

[Frédérique]

Then I knew what I was feeling. I felt selfish, really selfish. All this me, me, me. Shopping for me. What I wanted to buy and wear. What my style was. Me, me, me. I don't really like being the center of attention and I certainly don't like being selfish. The idea of spending OUR money on something that focused almost solely on me really irked something in my stomach.

[SIZE="2"]You might as well be selfish, otherwise you’ll lose the "self,” something you can ill afford to lose, if you ask me. Reading your post, I’m thinking about the piece I wrote about participation some time ago – I think crossdressing is, by its very nature, a solo enterprise, or a journey to the interior of your soul. Do you want somebody along for the ride, or someone to hold your hand as you cross into No Man’s Land? I don’t, in fact the very idea of having my SO trying to “help” my crossdressing (I would question one’s motives for doing so) would put a knot in MY stomach! You should do your own shopping, since you enjoy it, and keep it to your “self.” Unfortunately, crossdressing is a selfish act, but most things are – the public act of selflessness is selfish, if you can wrap your head around that one. Better to balance acts of selfishness and selflessness, and stay on an even keel at all times…

BTW, if you’re “Proud to be TS,” isn’t that a selfish statement? Pardon me for asking, but I'm just asking… [/SIZE]

[pacificblue]

I have been thinking about this all day and trying to figure out this feeling. I believe I misjudged my emotions. Not selfishness but something deeper. I can explain when I get home, as it it going to be too long to post from my cellphone .

Annd I lovve and appreciate my wife for helping me and participating.

[Stephanie47]

pacificblue- I'm going to go in a different direction on this. I see more than one possibility. Let me preface my remarks by saying, if you have FIVE articles of female clothing to yourself. Your wife allows you to borrow from her as long as you do not stretch them.

Firstly, I'd say you do NOT have enough feminine garments of your own. Without specifying what type of garments you have (outerwear vs. undergarments) your wife is probably thinking you do NOT have enough of a wardrobe. I agree. She may be trying to let you know you need to expand your wardrobe, even though you are satisfied with your wardrobe. With only five garments, how can you expect her to know your tastes. Wearing her garments is partaking in her tastes or at least, if you bought some of her wardrobe, how she thinks you view her. My wife shops at Goodwill for gently used garments for herself, jeans and tops, which offer good value for their excellent condition.

It is also she may be overcompensating for her youth. I see from your bio you are twenty-one. Presumably, your wife is near your age. This has to be a new venture for you and her. Love is blind. She may not have totally reconciled a man's desire to wear feminine clothing with her idea of societal norms. Maybe, she is subconsciously trying to accept cross dressing when she has doubts while projecting full acceptance. Time will tell.

And, I do not think you would be selfish if you bought more clothing of your choosing, especially considering the decent markdowns on the color tags. My wife gets great deals on garments of all kinds at $1.29.

[Foxglove]

Hi, Pacificblue! Being trans is really weird. It's like we're so used to feeling guilty that we start feeling guilty if we haven't got something to feel guilty about. Somebody offers us a bit of happiness? That's something we can certainly feel guilty about.

I'm not being facetious here. There's all sorts of ways people can define themselves and "guilty" is certainly one of them. In fact, it's a classic.

I've learned something over the last couple of months. It feels good to be happy. In fact, it feels absolutely great to be happy. I'd have little patience these days with someone who was trying to load another guilt-trip on me: no, baby, I'm on a different kind of trip these days. Guilt will in fact bring you a happiness of sorts. But it's a sick sort of happiness--and that becomes overwhelmingly clear to you once you've had the real item.

Here's something that's just occurred to me--maybe something worth chewing over: is it possible that the most selfish people are those who don't know what their self is? They work so hard trying to find it that they forget that other people have selves that need to be considered. Perhaps you become less selfish by tending to your own self. Once you're in possession of and comfortable with your own self, then and only then can you give someone else's self the attention and care it needs.

Well, anyway, enough cheap philosophy. I went shopping today, too--found a jacket and skirt that would do me nicely. My only disappointment was that I found a beautiful coat that was too small. I suppose if I'd been looking for reasons to feel guilty, I could have found them. But it didn't occur to me to do so.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[pacificblue]

A lot of posts to help me through this but I think I might have misjudged what I was feeling initially. It's not selfishness, although that most likely plays a part. However if I follow my emotions logically then I realize that selfishness is a bit irrational. Goodwill is not expensive. I'm not choosing clothing over food and my wife does benefit because I become a much happier, relaxed person while dressed.

I think it's the remnants of a defense mechanism I developed when I was very young. I'm trying to word this so that it doesn't come out as a bunch of pretentious psychoanalytical malarkey so bear with me.

My childhood isn't my favorite subject and I'm trying to avoid an overly verbose and emotional post but I feel like this requires a bit of background information. As a child I was an absolute headache to take shopping. I would take hours to find anything because I was very picky about my clothing and how it looked and matched with the other stuff in my wardrobe. I would spend hours just trying stuff on and putting it back and moving on. I never liked boy's clothes (they fit weird and looked funny and just felt unnatural and uncomfortable) but even at that age I understood that it wasn't "normal" for me to wear girl's clothes so I made due. My parents were very annoyed with me because of these shopping habits and at one point they told me: "You're worse than a girl. Just pick something your size and we'll leave."

I don't know why and maybe it was just the unmistakable disappointment that laced those words but that really hurt me. Really, really hurt me. So I think I overcompensated because I did a one-eighty and was still an absolute headache to take shopping but now it was for the opposite reason. I refused to look around, try anything on or buy anything. All my clothes were bought for me and they all fit weird because I wouldn't try them on. Even to this day I pretend to hate shopping while I'm out and about and I feel a bit bad for my natural urge to browse and try on thousands of things. I feel guilty and like I'm frustrating everyone who is shopping with me.

I haven't "enjoyed" shopping in quite some time and can't remember the last time I bought something just because I liked it. All my male clothes are stained, stretched, ripped, burned or otherwise looking terrible. I hate wearing the stuff but if I throw it out then I might have to go shopping for something new. I almost quit a job because the dress code required that I buy three red T-shirts. The only reasons I get new clothes is because my wife tells me that I look like I'm wearing something a hobo threw out and she bugs me into goodwill. So I shop and pretend to dislike it. I grab something and throw it in the cart and pretend to be frustrated when my wife wants to browse. I say I don't want to try anything on. Sometimes I get lucky and find something I DO love and manage to make it look like I don't care but that's pretty rare. My natural urge is to look at everything and then buy whole racks of clothes.

For the record I LOVE shopping. I LOVE the few clothes that I do have and wearing them around. I LOVE that my wife is willing to help. My problem is that I'm still shopping like my parents told me to. I still feel ashamed for my urges and I still hear their voices in my ears telling me to "hurry up" or "just pick something". So I think I just gotta relax, loosen up and let down that big wall because obviously my wife knows the real me and wants to be a part of this.

I hope that didn't seem too self-centered, pompous or Freudian. I was trying to avoid that.

[ReineD]

A lot of people have hang ups from their childhoods or other traumatic times in their lives. I knew a woman who could not bring herself to take out the garbage. Honestly. It became a problem. Some people avoid going to the dentist and their teeth end up looking just as awful as your clothes.

It's good that you know where your hangups come from, and hopefully now that you know, you'll make an effort to take one baby step at a time to get over your distaste in finding clothes that fit. You may need professional help to get over this.

Now if you do not want to buy any male clothing because you have a revulsion towards anything that looks male, this is a gender issue that is common among transpersons. You'll need to make some choices about how you will present in your community and at work. If you decide that it suits your purpose to present as a guy under certain circumstances for now, hopefully you'll be able to take baby steps towards helping yourself in this direction as well.

It's not easy to get over hangups, it will take a concerted effort on your part. Good luck!

[Beverley Sims]

I find in your circumstance accept one or two things gracefully, otherwise you may destroy the relationship you now have.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi PB, Don't let something that small wreck a good thing.