oh, now I understand better. You can consider yourself whatever you want. Whether or not you will be accepted is a different matter.
added later: Reading what I wrote above, not sure if it is quite right. Its not like a special club or anything. No membership. Just be yourself whatever that is, that's what you should accept yourself for and what people will accept you for. And TS is not a subset of the CDing population.
Last edited by arbon; 08-29-2014 at 01:17 AM.
You can be whatever you think you need to be. I personally support anyone's desire for actualization, or at the very least self acceptance.
The only problem I see with calling yourself a transsexual is credibility. I'm not talking about internet credibility. Shoot, you can make up whatever you want here and you may never get 'found out'. The kind of cred I'm talking about is real time/real life. If you met me at a business function, and someone told you I was trans, you might approach me and say "hey me too", and I might say , "oh that's cool George", or whatever your name is. I would be totally accepting and even sympathetic to your story, but I wouldn't necessarily accept you as "like me". I personally know quite a few TS women and most of them have had a pretty damn rough transition. They've lost wives, and jobs, and friends, and family. They have truly suffered for the crime of being true to themselves. I have had a comparatively easy journey, but even I had to leave a great job because of my transition.
Before everyone jumps up my ass, I am NOT advocating for everyone to transition at all costs. Quite the opposite, I think that not transitioning is always the most prudent thing to do. Those of us who are willing to risk everything just so the rest of the world sees a 'she' are almost cursed in my humble opinion. I'm just kidding, there is nothing humble about my opinion. My post transition life is waaaaay better than my dude life, but I'm not gonna lie and say that I don't wish I could have been a normal man. Or even a gay man for that matter. If you can get along without wrecking your life I think that's really great and you may indeed be a clinical transsexual, but I can't bring myself to call someone a sister who lives their life as a man. My roomie is a TS woman who divorced her wife, and her kids spend a lot of time here. One of my good friends also lost her marriage and is having issues with the kids. These are real people with real lives and I know them to be very kind and VERY thoughtful people who are enduring the slings and arrows of an outrageous transition. These people are my sisters.
You are welcome to join us here, but my 'sisters' have sacrificed a hell of a lot, and I think at the very least they've earned the hollow label of TS.
In our time, being a transsexual comes with a price, and if you're smart, you'll keep your hands in your pockets and not give a damn about joining our 'club'.
There are aspects of Melissa's post that ring true for me, and some that are troubling. Part of it is the insistence that suffering is inherently a part of the transsexual condition, when it seems like social progress points to this being less true over time. Pans indeed she admits that she suffered less than many (though this may be a relative thing - putting up with society's homophobia prior to transition may have added up to something pretty comparable in the end.) Certainly it's no longer a given that you'll lose your spouse, that your family will never speak to you again, that holding a job will depend on how well you're able to go stealth, etc.
The transsexual condition does vary across individuals, and it does change with time. I do think a part of the measure is constant, though, and that's the inability to simply go on in an assigned gender that simply doesn't fit. There's a world of difference between going clubbing dressed in a novel fashion, and living 24/7 with the expectation that everyone you meet should gender you consistently opposite how you were assigned at birth. There are obligations and challenges therein, and a discovery process of what it means to be a woman, or a man, that is pretty unique. Not in the sense that it's a set of identical experiences, but in that it's like nothing else my life prepared me for.
I didn't lose my wife. I haven't lost friends. I did ultimately decide to change jobs and the experience of working as a woman for my prior employer did play a part in that, but it was far from my only motivation for change. My father has all but stopped communicating and I haven't seen him at all post-transition, despite the fact that his wife owns a home about a mile from where I currently live ... but I don't consider that a part of my transsexual bona fides, just an unfortunate byproduct of a social conservative movement in this country.
So is there such a thing as a non-transitioning transsexual? Maybe. It might even be very much like a pre-transition transsexual's experience, but that's only a small part of the whole enchilada. They're the same in much the way an ear of corn is like a corn tortilla: not very. The process of transitioning is less of a change of clothes and more of wholesale reimagining of self.
~ Kimberly
“To escape criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard
The essence of transsexuality is congruence. So my minimum definition insists on including the need to resolve it. The proof of the pudding – Misty's credibility point – is whether one actually does anything to address congruence or not. I don't really care what that is. It may be going full time, going on hormones, surgeries, whatever. While I would not insist on transition to think someone trans (It's often quite obvious who is and who is not anyway), Misty's focus on material differences between transitioners and non-transitioners is valid in its own right.
Granted, not everyone can take action for a variety of reasons. But I think real such cases of that are relatively few. My suspicion is that most of the rest are making excuses. No one who hasn't got it figured out yet should be taking steps. But someone who is really adamant about being trans and is taking no action… well…
But what difference does it make anyway if you're not going to be out?
Lea
I just want to clarify Kimberly's point about suffering. I am not insisting that somebody MUST suffer to be the real deal. I am only saying that they probably will to some extent. I'm sure there must be someone out there who transitioned and stepped into an incredible life with warm cookies and sweet cream coffee, but I don't personally know anyone like that. The TS women that I know are mostly all wonderful people who have the guts of any 10 men, but they have ALL suffered to some extent.
Even if your family stays intact and your friends or job don't get weirded out, (highly unusual for my generation) you still have to endure the social transition, and there isn't a middle aged TS alive who can do that discreetly.
I wish that nobody ever suffered for anything, and I'm truly sorry for those that battle these demons privately, but admission to this club, comes at a price.
The bar to acceptance and understanding doesn't get lower, it just becomes more accessible as you stand on the shoulders of the girls who risked it all before you.
Thank you one and all for your well thought out responses.
As I said at the beginning, I wished to learn a great deal more from others to be able to reflect and learn more about myself in the process.
Since there isn't a cost here for this, and at the risk of upsetting you gals, I did take a huge leap - shared some feelings and asked a few questions - based on my current understanding.
I definitely can accept that 'proof is in the pudding' and freely admitted I'm in total awe of you gals.
I am quite sure I don't measure up in many ways and honestly tried [unsuccessfully it would seem] to establish that in the beginning.
That said, I do have very deep long-term GD feelings and will be sure to keep my hands in my pockets for fear of what might happen.
I'm still trying to make sense of the alphabet soup in this area of human nature and figure out how I fit in - if at all.
How much GD you have to have before you internalize TS in your persona remains a mystery to me.
I wasn't requesting admission but rather to be accepted/tolerated as I ask your group questions and possibly learn a great deal more about myself in the process.
I do know I will never be able to act much further than I have within my personal responsibility limits.
I think everyone/every situation is different - I think of it being like a dart on the board of life and where we end up - mostly depends on factors that we can't change.
I'm deeply sorry if I offended anyone and will not trouble you wonderful gals further since I appear to be ruffling too many feathers.
P.S. If you know of another area/forum of this board where these questions are better received - please direct me.
I do hope some of the responses are useful, though it's obvious you didn't get what you were looking for. In part, I'm sure, because you're ultimately asking questions about yourself. That's simply not something here anyone can answer definitively, so we're left debating terminology. As is often the case, by the way, so you've hardly stepped into new territory here.Originally Posted by Wendy O
That's always a good place to start, but you should never ask questions if you're not interested in the answers you might get. It seems that somehow what you heard wasn't what you hoping for. Isn't that to be expected from time to time? Admittedly being extremely sensitive and transgender have a long history of going hand in hand, but rarely has it made anyone happy. Learning to deal with differences of opinion and adjust to difficult realities is pretty much required for anyone who is doing more than posing for selfies to post in safe spaces. I think it's perfectly reasonable for those here to point out that feeling like a girl doesn't qualify you to answer questions or present yourself as having insights as a transsexual - but that doesn't mean you aren't welcome to pose any question you might like or discuss any of the topics here. Topics that are intended for TS-only reaponses are specifically called out as such.I did take a huge leap - shared some feelings and asked a few questions - based on my current understanding.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, exactly, but we can all identify with the pressure of gender dysphoria. Some here will say they always knew they were going to transition, others resisted for as long as they could before it became obvious that taking action to realign their lives with their sense of self. "How bad is it going to get?" is one of those in-answerable questions. If it ever gets bad enough that you're less scared of transitioning than not, you'll know, and then you'll start down the path many have tod before you — and doubtless you'll trip over obstacles many never noticed, and skip right by a few that have been a major issue for others. Or you'll find that dabbling a little as a hobby works better for you. However it goes, I hope you find peace and contentment.That said, I do have very deep long-term GD feelings and will be sure to keep my hands in my pockets for fear of what might happen.
~ Kimberly
“To escape criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard
No-one is offended or ruffled that I can see.
There isn't anything to measure up to. When you think about it, the concept as it applies to sex and gender is kind of bizarre. You are what you are. What you do proceeds - or is driven - by that. That's all, she wrote. I can no more measure up to you than you me.
The point of all the credibility stuff stems from that concept. So from that perspective, it would be just as strange to ask if you can be considered a ninja, even though you don't train like one and can't fight like one. Or, since the less romantic life roles are just as valid, can you be considered a trucker, even though you don't drive? When people ask questions like this, when the inner life (God know what ninja or trucker minds mean) is divorced from the physical world, the question becomes less about some theoretical reality than it is whether, or to what degree it matters at all.
Truthfully, it doesn't much. I'm more or less recognized for who I am and frankly don't care how far my credibility goes. Heck, my credibility with MYSELF only goes so far! And that's OK, too, because an important part of managing my own issues is taking things in small steps. There's a lot I can theorize and speculate about that's forward-looking, but why bother?
You don't have to have ANY particular level of GD. GD doesn't equal transsexuality! What, if anything, that resolves the ambiguous identity situation you describe differs from person to person. It IS identity for some.
Lea
I also don't see any ruffled feathers and quite enjoy discussions like this. The thing is, each one of us is different and has different issues. No one here is just like me, but there are many who have experienced similar circumstances. Some of us know we are ts from childhood and some have to find out later
the first few times i came in here looking for answers i didn't like what i was told either, but most of it was the truth and it scared the hell out of me.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
From Wikipedia ...
"persona (plural personae or personas), in the word's everyday usage, is a social role or a character played by an actor. The word is derived from Latin, where it originally referred to a theatrical mask."
Perhaps you unintentionally misused the word or were unclear what it's meaning is. Persona implies that one is acting or faking a role. That is definitely not me I'm too moody to fake anything, lol. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what you're saying in that sentence is that you are not sure how bad the GD has to get before one needs to transition? I guess the answer is different for everyone. All I can say is that you'll know it when it happens! It's like a bell that's been rung, you can't un-ring it.
As far as being accepted/tolerated you don't need any thing special for that this is an open forum some people may like you others may not and that is their right but you have the right to post and ask anything you want within the limitations of the forum rules. You are accepted/tolerated simply by being a member of CD.com.
I'm not sure what "personal responsibility limits" are nor will I guess but I can say that most of us here transitioned at an age where we had established marriages, family life, careers, friends, histories, etc. in most cases transition is highly disruptive and a lot of people lose someone or something important to them but the need to be true to yourself out weighs the cost and social stigma of transition. Usually, in time, these disruptions settle and the damage is not as bad as it seemed like it was going to be. We almost never lose everything but one should be prepared for it because you don't know what you might lose!
Hey, I get it! I'm overly sensitive too and I can see how not really getting the response you wanted could seem like you have upset people or "ruffled feathers" but believe me you haven't. This is the kindest, gentlest, and probably best educated (thanks Lea) group of TSes I've seen here since I started hanging around.
Last edited by Aprilrain; 08-31-2014 at 06:07 AM.
A HUGE sincere and genuine thank you for each and everyone who weighed in on my questions.
I do feel welcome so thank you - and can definitely feel the friendships here and also feel the pain that everyone here experiences in one way or another in their life.
You have my utmost respect and understanding (as best as anyone can have understanding) who has had some kind hardship in their life - especially if you haven't "walked a mile in their shoes".
I have carefully reviewed pictures, surgery photos, and might I say that the road to beauty is obviously a hard road (and that's without all the society nonsense judging you as you express yourself).
I look forward to participating as best as I can to learn more about the group and ultimately more about myself.
Hi Steph,
The most important issue is to remove yourself from the sexual labeling... It is so restrictive... I have found that I am most comfortable when I am able to freely enjoy and express my feelings for another... And yes as abby I am a lesbian and I derive great pleasure and satisfaction... So what does that make me... Well I am free of societal restrictive labeling...
Hi Wendy, I think this is a huge misunderstanding. You don't have GD and depending on how much you internalize TS in your persona.
You are or are not TS. GD is a symptom of TS not the other way around. GD is also a very specific diagnosis. "Feeling right" when crossdressing is not one of them.
Being TS can also occur when you have zero GD. As Lea mentioned at the heart of TS is incongruence, that is a dissociation between how you experience your self and your body. For most TS this is crystal clear. Some experience depression in dealing with their condition and then it is called GD.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
Hi all, I'm 23 and just identify as a CD for the time being. But I've had on two separate occasions (back in 2009 and now) where I started thinking about wanting to be a girl. I'm not sure if that I really want to or not, but I am starting to feel more like I don't like my body or belong in it. I've always liked the female body and anatomy much more and especially the clothes. I feel comfortable and happy in women's clothes, but I know that doesn't make me a TS, just a TG. I feel like transition could be a possibility for me in the future.
I guess my question is, what truly triggered your belief that you were meant to be a woman and not a man? Was there anything specific as far as a feeling or thought that made you believe you wanted to transition?
I wouldn't say anything triggered it, I didn't know I was TS but I still suffered the symptoms my whole life. I decided to transition when through therapy I came to the realisation that it could potentially fix me, I felt broken and it felt like the only option left.
I don't believe there is any rationale to this, you just know and much of it is down to feelings inside. I can only speak for myself but I have always been different, all the signs where there in my past just no one to piece them together, it wasn't the case that I eased through life until suddenly something happened and I wanted to be female.
I've always been female, I just spent far too much energy trying to prove I was male and fit in to notice. It's like being ill and you just carry on struggling to live a normal life and compensating for your illness, until one day it's revealed to be a curable condition and not something you have to keep enduring.
The cure can be brutal though!
Transitioning silences the demons in my head. Now I sound mad!
Nothing triggered it. I always knew. It was my driving force from a very young age. It took until I was your age to start transition. I suggest you locate a gender therapist and start therapy sessions. Have them help you explore yourself and discover your own answer. It is different for everyone.
My mother told me about when I was 2 years old. I would try to play with the boys down the street. She would watch as they would take my toys and I wouldn't fight to get them back. They would push me and I wouldn't push back. Often I would end up getting physically injured because I didn't have the organic instinct to fight back. At church I would tend to gravitate toward the girls even in nursery school, almost as soon as I could walk. When I was in a room with boys and girls toys, I wanted to play with the dolly and feed her. My favorite blanket was a satin comforter because in was soft and silky.
When a little girl moved in next door, I asked if she wanted to play with me. She was reluctant at first because boys played too rough for her, but we quickly became good friends and soon I was friends with most of girls on the block. I just seemed to enjoy playing with girls more, I liked the games, puzzles, telling stories, coloring, singing, and giggling. I just WAS one of the girls.
I didn't experience dysphoria until I was in first grade. I had moved to a new school and quickly made friends with most of the girls in my class. The boys made fun of me, but I didn't care, I wanted to play with the girls anyway. When they called me "Sissy", the teacher talked to us after recess, explaining how "Buddy" was another way of saying "Brother" and "Sissy" was another way of saying sister. I smiled because I liked being a sister to the other girls.
When one of the mothers decided there was a problem, she demanded that I be kept away from the girls. She assumed that I was going to do bad things to the girls. Since she had friends on the PTA, and the School Board, as well as City Council, my teacher told me I had to go play with the boys. They weren't surprised when I walked over, and told me to throw clumps of grass at the boys about 10 feet away. I threw about three clumps and suddenly I was in the middle of both "teams" getting pelted with rocks. So the first day playing with boys, I got stoned. When I came home, I got clubbed (guess what that was). The beatings continued twice or 3 times a day until summer.
I remember trying to run away when they tried to give me a haircut that summer. I wanted to grow my hair long and they were going to give me a buzz cut. I cried and fought the entire time, because I wanted to be a girl. At that time, the only difference I knew about was girls had long hair and wore pretty dresses. Boys had short hair and wore pants and itchy shirts. It didn't help that mom bought the pants 3 sizes too big and the jeans were so stiff it hurt to walk. I had 4 inches of cuff rolled up, and could barely walk. And they bought me flannel shirts in September so they wouldn't have to buy me more shirts in December. Wool flannel shirts on a hot September day was torture.
I never could accept being a boy. I hated Gym, lunch, and recess, and would stay after school so that I could sneak home without getting beat up. I had girl friends, and once I got home, there were girls on the block that I could play with. Walking to school, I'd walk with the girls, and some of them were tom-boy enough to protect me from the boys. At minimum, the girls could tell the teacher which boys attacked me.
To survive, I became a "bookworm", "egg-head" - often taking a book to read while on the playground. That way I could stay close to the teacher. I had asthma and could use the allergy and sickness as an excuse not to go out to the field where the boys played soccer (using me as the ball).
My parents thought I was accepting being a boy in 3rd grade, when I wanted to be a Cub Scout. I just wanted to be the first in my class to wear a uniform. I actually wanted to join the blue-birds (campfire girls) but wasn't allowed.
Mom finally stopped trying to fight it when I was 8 and I was cooking, vacuuming, cleaning bathrooms, doing laundry, and ironing. My dad used to joke "Rex you'll make some lady doctor a wonderful wife some day". I would smile so big and say "or lady lawyer".
Yeah, I was never a "boy" and certainly never a "man". I was ever more of a mommy than a daddy.
When my voice started changing and I started growing hair, I also became very self-destructive. I had read a bit about reincarnation and the idea of dying and coming back as a girl was very appealing. To me it wasn't suicide, it was just "a sex change the hard way". Fortunately, I survived in spite of myself and eventually got to be the woman I am today. I just wish I'd been able to do it 50 years ago.
Facebook - Debbie Lawrence
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At what point during your HRT did you know you couldn't "go back" because the physical changes were too much? And at that point, how did it feel?
I knew I couldn't go back long before I started hrt.
Last edited by Angela Campbell; 11-28-2014 at 11:28 AM.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
For me, there was no point of no return. I had wanted this all my life. It was full steam ahead, get hell out of my way.
When I started hrt there was no thought of ever going back.
I guess in answer I will have to say that at about 6 months into hormone treatment, going full time was going to happen because at that time I really could not come across as a male anymore.
Facial hir was vastly reduced, had sporty little b's and was getting gendered as a woman. Physically I guess that was it.
How did it make me feel? it was a great relief. No more hiding. I was finally me. There is a time when it is quite awkward, but that passed. Coming out is not easy.
Last edited by Angela Campbell; 11-28-2014 at 11:30 AM.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
I have to agree with the other posters that there was no thought of being able to go back and it had nothing to do with physical changes being "too much".
In my experience, someone who is born transsexual and who reaches the point where they have to transition will not be looking for a way back to hell.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I hadn't even been prescribed HRT before I knew there was no going back
Being prescribed HRT was just the marzipan under the icing.
Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said
The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another
I haven't started HRT and I'm also way past the point of no return if there ever was one.
A point of going-back-would-be-really-awkward was probably when I told my family. How did it feel? It felt great, as a victory for knowing that now I cannot go back. Burning the bridges from hell.
Life is a dream we wake from.
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