B.S. Reasoning (Ultimate "Ends" For Being Transgender)

[SarahMarie42]

When discussing my transgender feelings with my family, I am most often confronted with questions which rest entirely upon fallacious teleological assumptions -- that is, assumptions which involve there being a greater purpose to everything. Now, given recent forum controversy, I would like to differentiate this teleological form of thinking, which involves metaphysical "purpose", from searches for causation (like those which characterize the inquiries of, say, Reine -- but are still mistaken as being teleological, unfortunately). No, this form of thinking begins with an assumption as to the fundamentals of human action, not recognizing them to be the product of a foundation which simply exists independently of any metaphysical purpose, but instead forcing a metaphysical purpose. If we were to get into analytic philosophy, we could recount the ire of numerous thinkers toward such assumptions, as they correctly claimed that they were dangerous and unverifiable, but I digress.

To get to the point, I will provide an example -- we start with the ultimate human "purpose" of being "valued". We assume that the telos for the existence of humankind is to seek value, and that is all. Having assumed this telos on nothing but intuition, we begin to build explanations for all of human action. "He/she plays tennis, so he/she obviously finds meaning in tennis", "He/she likes to swallow swords, so he/she must find meaning in swallowing swords"

This is fine, if we correctly identify it as a cause and verify it scientifically, but not if we assume it as some cosmic rule.

Anyway, I find that my feelings are often misunderstood when pegged to simple-minded "cosmic rules". A family member might think that I desire womanhood because I have insecurities as a male, and that I'm attempting to escape them through unconventional means, for example, instead of recognizing that the need to present as a woman, the need to BE a woman, is the result of a purposeless state of affairs, much like even the existence of insecurity itself. . .

I don't know, I feel I've been a bit unclear, as a full explanation would require A LOT of writing, but have any of you encountered similar lines of thinking?

[mikiSJ]

You rack your brain and soul to get up the courage to come out to your family, friends and SOs and then you have to fight your way out from under their ignorance, bias, religious intolerance.

Sometimes you simply have to say "eff it" and walk away.

[SarahMarie42]

Luckily, they're simply spiritual and theistic. They're very accepting of others in the LGBT community, but they can't quite understand where I'm coming from personally x[

[Beverley Sims]

B.S. yes those are my initials, when the subject of X dressing starts to revolve Theology, metaphysical purpose or the stars being aligned with Uranus or Communism my "initials" kick in and I move on to the next more clearly defined subject. I have left out science and cosmic rules.

I think what you are trying to say is..
"He/she plays tennis, so he/she must find a meaning in tennis".
"He/she likes to swallow swords, so he/she must find a meaning in swallowing swords"
Well I CD and I enjoy it but I can not for the life of me find any meaning in it.
I think the meaning for me is in my initials...
Do your initials have any meaning.

B.S.

[Kate Simmons]

Well, I "think" I know who I am, plain and simple. I didn't get to that point without a lot of hard work, however, spiritual aspects notwithstanding. I do know I now have full confidence in my own judgement and abilities but I also know many folks do not. The bottom line is I'm constantly learning about myself and others and that is what it is really all about in my estimation.

[Wildaboutheels]

There IS a reason for everything but our UNCONSCIOUS mind controls so much of what we do. And thus, how we interact with others.

Most folks would be afraid to leave their homes if they realized just how much.

Humans tend to have this [misguided] belief that WE are in "full control" simply because we appear to sit at the top of the food chain.

[CassandraSmith]

I'm not sure I get the question; however, in these "spiritual" discussions, I always suspect that the real objection is fears that you won't make grand-kids or bring a traditional GF to family dinners and stuff.

Also, remember, most people just think they know how to think.

[April_Ligeia]

Teleology doesn't apply in this case. Unless your argument is 'he crossdressed because he wanted to get out of his marriage,' or similar arguments. Even if you are clear on your own motives, and can guarantee the desired result, it's still sketchy. Teleology doesn't even apply in history, events don't occur in order to bring about an outcome, the outcome is a result ofthe events. Teleology is best left to religious texts.

[SarahMarie42]

I'm not the one making the teleological argument -.-

[Foxglove]

I don't know, I feel I've been a bit unclear, as a full explanation would require A LOT of writing, but have any of you encountered similar lines of thinking?

I have to say I haven't. Most trans-haters I've encountered (on the net) are hardly that sophisticated in their thinking. They usually content themselves with calling us "sickos", "perverts", that sort of thing.

When discussing my transgender feelings with my family, I am most often confronted with questions which rest entirely upon fallacious teleological assumptions -- that is, assumptions which involve there being a greater purpose to everything.

As for those who are making some effort to cop on, all you can do is explain things to them. Cispeople aren't naturally equipped to understand us since they're not made the way we are. You explain the best you can, and either they cop on or they don't.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[becky77]

This is very heavy thinking for my poor brain after a days work. I tend to stick to my mantra 'It is what it is'! I want to CD because I do, it's part of my very being and I have come to realise that anyone who doesn't understand it never will. Why does this person love that person? Why does Mr Smith want to skydive and take risks? Why doesn't Mrs Smith want to skydive and take a few risks?
Maybe I am missing the point of this thread? But you can't explain a feeling, especially to someone that doesn't share it.

[April_Ligeia]

I'm not the one making the teleological argument -.-

Of course. I'm sorry if my reply came across as pointed, I did not mean it that way. Misuse of teleological arguments and hermeneutics just happen to be pet peeves of mine. Please don't be offended.

[melissakozak]

I stopped thinking and simply exist now. I exist as that which I am. Trans!!!

[KellyJameson]

Is all that "is" random or does it follow certain laws?

If there are laws what are they?

If there are laws why are they needed ?

Are these laws also random so the laws came into "being" randomly?

Does the universe appear to have purpose to you?

Is there a design to it that operates out of sight yet in full view?

What is value? If there is value what makes it possible? What is value dependant on?

Do you have value? Why?

If you have value do you have more, less or equal value to "others" who have value?

[SarahMarie42]

Of course. I'm sorry if my reply came across as pointed, I did not mean it that way. Misuse of teleological arguments and hermeneutics just happen to be pet peeves of mine. Please don't be offended.

Almost all teleological and metaphysical arguments are bunk. Did I mention that Wittgenstein is my favorite philosopher? xD

B.S. yes those are my initials, when the subject of X dressing starts to revolve Theology, metaphysical purpose or the stars being aligned with Uranus or Communism my "initials" kick in and I move on to the next more clearly defined subject. I have left out science and cosmic rules.

I don't think meaning exists outside of personal or social attribution. I think others, who already have a "teleological" mindset, demand meanings consistent with their worldview. Teleological assumptions come from observations of broader patterns in nature, which in turn form a fundamental worldview, which is then used as a rubric for explanation. It's an epistemic structure.

[Foxglove]

I stopped thinking and simply exist now. I exist as that which I am. Trans!!!

Why is that, when we find our thinking is getting us nowhere, we decide that the solution is to stop thinking rather than learning to think properly?

Annabelle

[PaulaQ]

When discussing my transgender feelings with my family, I am most often confronted with questions which rest entirely upon fallacious teleological assumptions -- that is, assumptions which involve there being a greater purpose to everything.

My belief is that people feel this way because it gives them MUCH more of a feeling of control for there to be understandable reasons for everything. Your insecurity example is a good one - "I can understand someone being insecure, and while this is an unusual way to deal with insecurity, I can at least understand the cause." The reality - that there MAY BE NO EXPLANATION that anyone else will ever understand is quite uncomfortable to some people.

But look - fear of the unknown is a basic human emotional trait. Is it any wonder that people employ sophistry to avoid this in their own minds?