I know my limitations quite well. But I go out, not with the goal of passing, but blending in. If I can spend a few hours out shopping and not raise too many eyebrows, I consider it a good day.
I know my limitations quite well. But I go out, not with the goal of passing, but blending in. If I can spend a few hours out shopping and not raise too many eyebrows, I consider it a good day.
I feel that I've done a good job when:
As I walk into a store the SA sees a woman.
As I browse, but have not interacted, they begin to feel like 'all is not as it seems'
We talk, and he/she realizes I'm a guy. She sees a well presented male in drag who is friendly, polite, well spoken, and presents a possitive image about the gender gifted.
Passing? Not a chance. Passing grade? Everytime.-Celeste
"Passing" can have such a range of meanings for different gurls, I think. The distinction everyone is making here between "passing" and "blending" is a good example. If you only hope not to raise many eyebrows or get too many double takes at the restaurant, a decent percent might be able to pull that off as people stroll by and never really look you in the eye.
If, on the other hand, you want to be able to have a conversation with someone and leave them not quite certain of your birth gender... well, there's very few gurls who can pull that off, and of course even fewer who can have a conversation and never cause the person they're speaking to to even wonder about their gender!
I would love just to leave folks unsure, but my gf is a pretty harsh critic and let's me know that I am not there yet whenever I dress. Of course, our loved ones can sometimes be too critical because they have an ingrained and contrasting image in their minds like no one else....
The media division of public advertising is what sets the standard for what women are 'expected' to look like. And this model is beaten into the female psyche relentlessly. For us as CDs, this same model is our default standard to serve as a template for us to match. We superimpose our self-expectations over this template, and add/subtract as needed to fill out the mold.
How honest are we about passing?
What does it matter? If we can fill out the mold of our own expectations and pass according to our own judgement, then nothing else should matter.
And that pretty much is the opinion of most crossdressers that believe that they can pass. Being honest with ourselves isn't really what we're all about as crossdressers. Most of what we want is the illusion of being something other than what we really are.Originally Posted by Trysha
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Trust me, that harsh critic is your best friend. I feel like I went through boot camp (CFM boots of course) with my beautiful Easter European roomie who was living here through my cross-dressing and the first year of my transition. Damn Bulgarians don't have a polite filter but I'll tell you one thing, I sure as heck know what's natural looking and what's not ...now. Most of the girls here could use a friend like that. Consider yourself lucky. ;-)
There's and old saying "Give a man a hammer and all his problems start to look like nails." In this case, a makeup artist will naturally concentrate on achieving a perfect illusion through makeup.
Makeup is but one component of a good presentation. Other components include speech, mannerisms, walk, facial expressions, posture, etc. These all add up to a presentation which is feminine or masculine. Nobody, GGs included, do all of these perfectly. However, if you get most of them right you will be perceived as female by most observers. Invite more scrutiny by engaging strangers more closely and you raise the bar for yourself. How much interaction you do depends upon your comfort level and your tolerance for being read.
When I first started going out I didn't want to interact with anyone and my furtiveness really hurt my presentation. As I got more experience I realize that being read wasn't the worst thing in the world and this gave me more confidence to mingle and engage with others. Ironically, this closer engagement, done with confidence, resulted in me being read less often.
I was out this evening at a Souplantation restaurant and I repeatedly walked back and forth through the crowded restaurant to graze the soups and salads. I got a few looks, but no more than any really tall woman would get. I interacted with the woman at the cash register as I showed her a discount coupon on my smartphone. My voice was probably less than perfect, but my nicely-polished blue fingernails holding a pink-cased smartphone among a myriad of other feminine cues probably swayed her mind to think "female with low voice" rather than "crossdresser."
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
I never think I pass. Other people say that I can pass but I rarely take their affirmations at face value. Truth be told if someone offered to teach me how to use makeup well enough to pass I would take them up on the spot. Learning by yourself is difficult and time consuming. Beyond that passing is a bit like speaking in different voices you can't hear it from an objective point of view because your ear is designed to hear from your frequency so you have to have others help.
That is how I feel about it. Nathalie hits the nail right on the head. It took me a little while to arrive at this though.
~Amanda
Hi,
Im not going to disagree with the intent of this guy, for many yes they dont or need to pass & thats not a problem.
as you know im not a dresser, or trans,& as he's not met me he'll never know what its like being different, & like many women the dont use makeup , & even some young women apply so much that it detracts the beauty they have, & they look so nice ,
i know some of these young women . so are they trying to pass with all that makeup. dought it,
i dont wear makeup im not trying to look like a female i am one just because my facial features are not like other women = female, i dont & never will pass as a good looking woman so what, i dont need to,
To me it defeats all reason that i should ...need ... to wear makeup to pass as a woman, one i am a woman & two im accepted as a woman who's normal,
Maybe in all this what i see is if those like myself cant be accepted then acting out useing makeup doing every thing like a woman to the point of your going insane to try & do this whats the point, are you going to have a life have some fun or be so dam miserble your life is worse, & you cant even go out the door for fear of ,,,,you look like a male,
Makeup or acceptance i dont need makeup to gain acceptance, & nore do my many women friends,
...noeleena...
I think I might pass to people who see me in my car, from another car. Or from behind. Or from about 30 feet away. But up close and with any interaction at all, I don't expect to. That's fine with me. I'm not as interested in pretending to be a woman as I am about going out in the clothes I like, looking nice I hope, and being accepted that way.
For my case, I think my face passes pretty well but the rest of my body gives it away. I'm 6 foot tall and have broad shoulders so you can spot me from a mile away. I'd rather not be a spectacle so I do my best to fit in though.
I've come to realize, as others have said, I'm not trying to actually fool anyone. I just want to wear a dress, paint my nails, and make my self feel pretty.
A Southern Belle of the 21st century.
Flickr link for the interested, http://www.flickr.com/people/ashleemara/
"To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -Oscar Wilde
Based on the responses so far, the answer is that most of us are pretty honest with ourselves.How honest are we about passing?
"Don't hate me just for wanting to feel beautiful."
I agree with MelissaKozak--I received my first "hello Ma'am just the other day on the first day I dressed down to fit in with anyone else out doing errands. The only visible items en fem I had on were my wig, shoes on the outside and bra with breast forms underneath, which of course enhanced my bust line. I can't say whether I actually passed, perhaps not, but at least the initial impression was "woman" to the female cashier at the supermarket. Of course it helped to be 15 miles from home at a store I had never been in before, LOL!
I think that there are degrees of passing. I don't ever expect anyone to see me and think that I am a beauty. But if I was to overhear someone say "That sure is an ugly woman", it would make me quite happy. I have certainly had a few incidents where someone gave me the gas face, or made a comment, but when I dress to blend in most times I can slip out to a shoping center, and home whout any one noticing.
Gas face: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYp28tEAVvs
Stephanie
I believe that I pass as a woman and have no reason not to do so. I get no negative looks, stares and losing of underwear only compliments on how I look. If I were that way inclined I could have a boyfriend as I have had men trying to chat me up in the past. I work hard to continue my passing look and will continue to do so until the day I die.
Sorry if this seems big headed.
Maria
The Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies
Hi Trysha, There's a lot more to passing than just wearing a dress and a wig,
Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......
I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !
If at first you don't succeed, Then Skydiving isn't for you.
Be careful what you wish for, Once you ring a bell , you just can't Un-Ring it !! !!
Yep - don't pass - but that doesn't stop me trying to perfect the big 'cues' that Eryn covered. This is more about the challenge for perfection than the need to pass to go out though. Call it blending.
My male voice requires an honesty of being 'a man in a dress' with people that I meet. I have never had a bad reaction and enjoy the friendly interaction. Not passing is liberating and empowering.
I did have an interesting experience two weeks ago that gave me confidence when arriving in my home city after flying pretty. A work colleague of some 15 years got into the lift next to me. Didn't recognise me. While I don't pass my disguise must be OK.
Last edited by Michelle (Oz); 03-07-2013 at 08:54 AM.
I just remembered back in the 70's any guy with long hair got looks of wonder. They would say, "Is that a girl?" So if I keep pushing the litle cues with clothes and longer hair and other stuff, would someone glance and think girl? Baby steps to get there without makeup and all the stuff to go over the top. I think I've hit on something. Pass with direct examination? NO. Pass with a glance. Maybe. Maybe that's the best goal to have?
Gen
Honest enough to say I don't need to go out and be ridiculed by those that chose to be cruel. That's not fun as my fem feeling when dressed is inside and I do try to look as good as possible makeup and all. Make is critical and I really don't to that well but must say many women don't do it well either. Also, I've seen a lot of women out there where I've had to do a double take as many could pass for men. But no I don't think I'm passable.
I have a rather male physical appearance. So I pass by far or from the back. Twice, behind me, guys aboard a car whistled for me and made sucking noise the way we do with a cat. Once, while I went out of my vehicle, a worker called me by insisting (I did not understand at once that he addressed me): " Madam, Madam, Madam! " to ask me to move it because it hampered a truck which had to repair a lamppost. But several times some chaps exclaimed: " But you are not a girl, you are a guy! " Here, where I live, in the Indian Ocean, I also got the reactions of guys who seemed really offended as if the sky was falling on their head.
And one day an attractive blonde transsexual spotted me in my car which was parked along a pavement. She retraced her steps to encourage me and say to me: "God bless you! God bless you!" She summarized me her life in a few words: SRS then married to a Swiss man. She seemed very happy to have met me.
Allie is the Yoda of cross dressing, I am convinced. I think this captures my feelings well, except that I still care too much about what others may think. Need to get over that hump.
I go out a lot and really,most people ain't that observant. If you're duded up like a woman,then chances are people will logically assume that's what you are. Most folks would never guess there's a TG/TS/CD culture out there. They're not hostile. They just never think about it.
Samantha
I know that my man features are a dead give away when I dress. That's one of the reasons why I don't go out in public. Part of me would want to but lots of me would rather keep it to myself. I do know when walking within a crowd I personally can pick someone out and tell you about them in a matter of seconds. If I could tell about people then why can't anyone else.
Oh no, this is TOO funny. She is in for it now, this is her new nickname forEVER. ;-)
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