Crossdressing acceptance vs gay acceptance

[Tanya J]

Just a question for everyone here gg's or cd's. Do you think that being homosexual is more accepted than being a crossdresser and why? to me it seems that women are more comfortable around a gay man than a crossdresser it could just be me, but i wonder why given that there is still a false stereotype that many cd's are

[Pythos]

There is definitely more "acceptance". But you also have to recall that Gays have fought for what they have. It was a few pioneering people that took the risk, instead of hiding in the closet that really got the ball rolling.

This would be why I really don't think cds in the closet that help anything. I know why people hide, same reason gays hid....to not face the hatred and repercussions that are connected with being out and yourself.

But in the end....it helps no one.

[rocketscientist]

Since you pointed this question at women specifically, I would think that gay men seem less threatening to women because, well..... they're GAY. With cd's, they are probably not sure what their sexuality is and that makes them apprehensive. Not just women,but I think most people in general don't readily accept what they can't put their own label on. Hugs,Tonya

[Kelley]

I believe the gay community has more acceptance for the reasonses that Pythos states above. I had a thought a while back on this vain. If most of society believes CDs are gay then way don't we have more acceptance?

[CarolynO]

Yes,I think so given all the hoopla about legalizing gay marriage.I think your right about women being more comfortable around gays, even attracted to them sometimes.Maybe even fall in love with them.
It has happened-Anthony Perkins one example.Women tripped over themselves to get invited to Truman Capote's parties,be with him on cruises etc. another example.

On the other hand,I can't think of any positive media stories of cd's.Negative ones either for that matter.

[Marleena]

Gay men are accepted more readily until they put a dress on. Then it seems to confuse people. A man in a dress = gay to many people. Acceptance is farther behind.

[Julie Gaum]

Some of the above posts did skirt or hinted, and CDs coming out of the closet is important, image or publicity-wise, for CDs to gain understanding but that is only one step, albeit an important one. When the AMA decided that homosexuality was a trait at birth then our society started to come around to say "Now we understand". Since then gays have reached the point where many states have passed
same-sex marriage or other legal approvals, the military services have eased their restrictions, and gays are elected to public office --- you know all of that. Now we look at society's concept of the cross dresser and 99% have little or no idea why we do what we do (we have so many varied reasons). Ignorance breeds suspicion and hostility to what is not understood --- that's only "human". So on one hand we understand what makes one gay and accept it and on the other hand: "What ARE you people?"
Hope than helps answer Tanya
Julie

[Barbara Ella]

The gay movement has been in the mainstream focus for quite some time. CD has not made any inroad until recently. Too many have the misperception regarding "why" an activity takes place, and for these reasons it will be a very long time before dressing begins to move up in acceptance. Education is very long term, and our starting point is very different in a lot of people's minds.

Barbara

[FoxxxyBri]

There is definitely more "acceptance". But you also have to recall that Gays have fought for what they have. It was a few pioneering people that took the risk, instead of hiding in the closet that really got the ball rolling.

This would be why I really don't think cds in the closet that help anything. I know why people hide, same reason gays hid....to not face the hatred and repercussions that are connected with being out and yourself.

But in the end....it helps no one.

I agree with this.

The fear (and annoyance) of the impending BS you'll have to deal with from the public (and family) keep a lot of people in the closet. It's such a taboo that many even hide it from their wives (which I think is unfair but I do understand it).

[busker]

Gay men are accepted more readily until they put a dress on. Then it seems to confuse people. A man in a dress = gay to many people. Acceptance is farther behind.

Gay men don't put dresses on--or do they? I get the feeling that there are a lot more gay cd's on here than appears at first glance, mainly from reading the answers to various posts.
women might accept gay men more easily as already mentioned--non-threatening in a sexual way , but ask those women if they want to be married to one, and perhaps one that is also a cd, and the answer would very likely be quite different. NIMBY would be my guess. I have a suspicion that even the really accepting GGs here are likely scarce as hens teeth, and tolerance is likely the m .o. for most just from reading the comments (and maybe I read too much into them).
When I worked in SF, the lament I heard from women was that "all the good ones were taken" meaning that the rest were either gay or losers and not worth any effort.
Shananigan's thread was good in explaining that what people say is NOT always what they mean.
just my opinion

[busker]

it will be a very long time before dressing begins to move up in acceptance.

Barbara

Frankly, I don't believe it will ever be accepted. What social purpose does it serve? On what platform would the nation be educated? How is this any different from someone running around in fatigues all day? Do we consider them military wannabes? Yes, some believe themselves to be transgendered but what does that really have to do with dressing? That would be a mental state, not a physical one.
Outside matching the inside. Sure, but it isn't absolutely necessary from society's point of view. There are likely some males who are a bit more effeminate than others but who don't crossdress as a means of expression. Just because someone is a math genius doesn't mean that they have to go around looking like some nerd who can't match his /her socks.
Gays are getting real consideration now, but had medicine and science done proper work, we wouldn't need legal avenues to guarantee their fair treatment. Why do we need legislation to treat people like people? While there are cross dressers around the world, they are many steps farther removed from bio-genetic reasons that would explain why one person is gay and not heterosexual.
Femulating is something entirely different from being gay. IMO

[Badtranny]

Here's an interesting observation.

I know about 6-8 self identified CD's personally and pretty well. Most of them have been to my house at least twice and I've been out with all of them countless times. I have never heard a single one of them complain about the world not accepting them. Perhaps there's a correlation between being closeted and thinking the world is against you.

You can't make the world accept you, but you can certainly be accepted in YOUR world. If you are closeted because your friends won't accept you, then you're part of the problem.

[Kalista Jameson]

I think gay folks probably are gaining more acceptance in the general public than crossdressers for many reasons. While it is true that some crossdressers are gay, we here also know that many of us are not. This is not well communicated in the world and the drive and numbers for crossdresser support and resources I believe to be much less that with the LGBT community in general. Plus you can be gay and no one really knows or notices unless you make a point of wearing a shirt that says "I'm Gay" on it, or telling everyone you pass by on the sidewalk, and how many want to do that about anything in their personal lives? With crossdressing, it's all visual. We don't need to say a word or wear a sign. If I were dolled up and told someone I'm a crossdresser, they'd look at me and say, "no @#$!, Sherlock."

I think simply by the nature of what we do, we are going to attract attention good or bad and everything in between. I believe the focus for many of us ought to be, not to be unreadable, defensive or confrontational, but to be confident, mature and show that we are just as worthy of respect as anyone, regardless of gender, orientation or belief system. Let others be confused, it's okay. If they are openly supportive, excellent. If not and they act like a fool, that's okay too. Let them own it either way. If we can allow that, we may gain some support in the community at large, but I would not expect much, simply because, I don't think we match the numbers that people who identify as strictly LGBT do. I simply suspect this. Since many CD's are in the closet, gaining any sort of demographics and number count makes it a hard task. When we come out in the numbers that the LGBT community has and get people having the conversation on the same level, and move crossdressing from some under the table, taboo thing, then it will be interesting to see where the chips fall.

I have a co-worker who is a friendly acquaintance who is gay, and would be offended if people thought he crossdressed. So, I'm not sure the LGBT folks own crossdressing anymore than those of us who are not LGBT. We are kind of our own thing, that spills over into both straight and LGBT worlds, accepted by some, despised by others. It's hard to wrap your head around it.

Let's face it, trying to help people understand that some of us are not gay (not that there is an issue in that in of itself, but it does become important if having this conversation with a SO you want to be with) while wearing pantyhose and makeup is an uphill climb. I fully admire and respect the LGBT crowd and see them as plain old regular people, but I am not in their camp because I am not LGBT in any way, so I know I am on my own in explaining my lifestyle to people unless they are open to getting a 101 on the breakdown of what crossdressing is and is not, and again all that even varies greatly depending on which crossdresser you talk to.

Like everything else in life, I'm still trying to figure things out.=)

Cheers,

Kalista

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Tanya, It's kind of a turf war with the women.

[Marleena]

I just want to add that if somebody sees a gay man it is not so obvious by looking at him and that makes a big difference out there. When they see a man in a dress or a gay man in a dress it's an entirely different visual. If they got to know either of you they would probably be more accepting.

[busker]

Here's an interesting observation.

I know about 6-8 self identified CD's personally and pretty well. Most of them have been to my house at least twice and I've been out with all of them countless times. I have never heard a single one of them complain about the world not accepting them. Perhaps there's a correlation between being closeted and thinking the world is against you.
You can't make the world accept you, but you can certainly be accepted in YOUR world. If you are closeted because your friends won't accept you, then you're part of the problem.

I think that that would apply only to some people. There are cds here who are perfectly happy to cd in private for whatever reason. I don't feel the world is against me--I just don't see any valid reason to femulate. I do go out dressed mostly in women's clothing, I just don;t try to look like or pass as one. That would be futile. Tolerance may be a more accurate description than acceptance. People who make no audible objection to something/someone aren't always accepting.

[Kate Simmons]

Women are well aware that gay guys are not interested in them in a sexual way. Many CD's, on the other hand, may have a guy's libido regardless of how they are dressed. The intuition is inherent on this.

[Jamie001]

Ignorance breeds suspicion and hostility to what is not understood --- that's only "human". So on one hand we understand what makes one gay and accept it and on the other hand: "What ARE you people?"
Julie

The reason for this problem is because 95 percent of crossdressers are so far in the closet that they will never see the light of day. You can do you part to advance acceptance by getting out in public and wearing women's clothing, makeup, shoes, and other items proudly in both male and female mode. Let other folks see you and come out to your friends and show that you are proud of who you are.

[Jamie001]

You can't make the world accept you, but you can certainly be accepted in YOUR world. If you are closeted because your friends won't accept you, then you're part of the problem.

Thanks for stating this simple fact. Also, everyone should understand that if you friends won't accept that you are a crossdresser then they were never really your friends to begin with. Telling and showing friends that you are a crossdressers is a great litmus test to determine who your real friends are. If you can't be yourself around friends, then these so called "friends" are not worth having.

[Tanya J]

So many wonderful and valid ideas on this subject. This is the reason i so enjoy reading the posts here. I know that this goes without saying, but it truly is a shame that we are not at a point where we can openly share ourselves with the female population as a whole. I have always thought that part of the comfort of women with gay men was that they enjoyed some of the same things(hope that i am not stereotyping). We also have the potential to be able to include women in this part of ourselves that we shared enjoyment of.

[Wildaboutheels]

FACT. Some women will/might accept.

Probably most won't. Basic Birds and the Bees 101.

Some people, probably "most" people, male or female will make snap judgements and decisons about people based strictly on appearance.

It's up to ANYone, man or woman that dresses "differently" [than most members of their sex does], to SHOW people, by how you treat and INTERACT with them, that it is really UNSHARP to draw conclusions about people based simply on how they are dressed.

BUT... put yourself in a woman's shoes. She sees 10 guys at a party and one is dressed like a woman.

Is it more likely to hurt or to help him get a conversation with her?

And Gay people? Last time I checked, there is nothing "wrong" about/with gay people and I imagine most gay people look and act "normal".

[PaulaQ]

Thanks for stating this simple fact. Also, everyone should understand that if you friends won't accept that you are a crossdresser then they were never really your friends to begin with.

I do not feel this is a very realistic view for people who've had lifelong friends that no longer accept them. Were you honest from the start with your friends that no longer accept you? Probably not. Is that their fault?

People have flaws. There are some very kind hearted, well meaning people - maybe some of your friends - who simply aren't able to accept us. These aren't evil people. They are just people - with flaws. In particular, they have lots of misconceptions about us, and are pretty bigoted about us.

I think the "never really your friends" line is a load of bull, quite frankly. It's just as fair to say "you were never really their friend either, since you were never honest." I don't think that is representative of the situation either. That is the heartbreak of this situation - you can lose real, lifelong friends, and they likely feel that they lost you. There is loss for everyone involved.

It's fine if you've known someone a year or two and they reject you. Yeah, they weren't much of a friend. But losing someone who's been in your life for 10 years They were never your friend? Really? It was real - something changed - and the friendship ended.

Telling and showing friends that you are a crossdressers is a great litmus test to determine who your real friends are.

So by that logic, if your parent's don't accept you anymore, they were never really your parents, or never loved you?

I had dinner with a group of friends the other night - actually most of my friends here where I live now. The subject of transgender people came up. These are, overall, nice people and good friends. And it was pretty clear from the conversation that they would NEVER accept this about me were I to reveal it. It wasn't as bad as it could be - I'd definitely be viewed in a more favorable light than a child molester (this was clear from the conversation.) But acceptance seemed highly unlikely. They are not bad people overall - they just have a rather unfortunate prejudice. (During that conversation, I was super glad that people can't read minds.)

So maybe I should've just whipped out the litmus test and told 'em - "I'm a crossdresser! Deal with it!" Oh wait - they are my wife's friends too, and that would've gone rather badly for her, I think. Is it fair to wreck my wife's friendships? She loves it here, and she loves these people. Do I destroy her world just to feel a few moments of vindication for mine? (Bear in mind that I'd have rather few friends after said "litmus test".) [She must've known? How could she not know? Boy, was she stupid not to know - WE knew all along! How sad for her...]

These situations can be rather complicated, and there's potential for lotsa heartbreak, all over the place. And some of us are rather isolated.

You can do you part to advance acceptance by getting out in public and wearing women's clothing, makeup, shoes, and other items proudly in both male and female mode.

Not everyone wants to be an activist. Some people just want to lead quiet lives, and be left alone to go about their business. Is that so wrong?

[Badtranny]

Not everyone wants to be an activist. Some people just want to lead quiet lives, and be left alone to go about their business. Is that so wrong?

No. It's perfectly understandable and perfectly normal. If everybody had courage, then how would we recognize the courageous?

[PaulaQ]

No. It's perfectly understandable and perfectly normal. If everybody had courage, then how would we recognize the courageous?

That was unfair.
Some people have dependents - not everyone is cut out to be a soldier, and not everyone is in a situation where doing that would be even remotely fair to others.
It ain't always just about us.

[MysticLady]

Since you pointed this question at women specifically, I would think that gay men seem less threatening to women because, well..... they're GAY. With cd's, they are probably not sure what their sexuality is and that makes them apprehensive.

I guess there's an aura around us. Women even fear us(just kidding)